9243 réponses à ce sujet

[alienatedflea]

@ Cshep well seeing how so many people are comparing DA and ME series when they really have nothing to do with each other but ill use the comparsion as an example...you remember you had one gay elf in that game? he was (sorry for the lack of terms coming to my mind) as queer as queer can be...and to me it was weird and took away from my experience...i can see them making shep into that elf dude...so yes he would be very different...

@ Siansonea and my question to you people all this time has been that...how is adding the option to please you people be consistent with the first two games when there is an established connections with sheps squad members? (you are asking to change the dynamics of the game) and What will this appeasement by adding the option to the game gonna bring to the game? all i can see if they change the options to suit a certain group of people (you) then another group of people will be upset by it (me and other people...eh what you people call homophobes? real mature) it is a lose lose situation for bioware...and they shouldnt fix something thats not broken...um i personally dont care what you choose to do in your life...if you feel better doing the things you enjoy then i say more power to you...but i dont think because you enjoy something and others like yourself enjoy it too...dont make it right to push that on to a game to suit you and others leaving others in the dust...and again to show that im more focus on consistency than what you want to force...if mass effect (the first one like in Dragon Age: Origins) had gay options then it should be in the rest of the trilogy...

[alienatedflea]

fitscot...how am i being rude? two different people here called me a homophobe for wanting the game to be consistent yet everyone here rather trash continuity and consistency to make yourselves happy...i dont see what i am saying is rude when im clearly have valid points and everyone here ignores my point...putting in more options will not be consistent with the first 2 games...

[Siansonea]

Just a friendly reminder, responding to meaningless questions is a waste of time. We all know what's really going on here.

[alienatedflea]

@siansonea haha you did prove that you would crap on consistency to your way...so this s/s "option" is a bad idea for the third installment of a trilogy...and can i kindly ask you to feed me? im hungry (clearly you people think im a troll haha when you people would gladly ruin a game to suit your needs) your examples of the doc and joker joining cerberus was explanied and developed...while making shep gay when he wasnt in the first two is somehow "ok" with yall

the fact is that if they dont add the option to s/s romance in me3 then it would be very little lost if any at all and thats an irrefutable fact...

[M1tt3ns]

alienatedflea wrote...

fitscot...how am i being rude? two different people here called me a homophobe for wanting the game to be consistent yet everyone here rather trash continuity and consistency to make yourselves happy...i dont see what i am saying is rude when im clearly have valid points and everyone here ignores my point...putting in more options will not be consistent with the first 2 games...

Each playthrough is completely constrained to a specific canon. If a character is gay in your game, he very well might not be in someone else's if they don't pursue that line of dialogue. Why should every playthrough and every person's game be the same? If anything it adds more replayability.

[javierabegazo]

alienatedflea wrote...

@siansonea haha you did prove that you would crap on consistency to your way...so this s/s "option" is a bad idea for the third installment of a trilogy...and can i kindly ask you to feed me? im hungry (clearly you people think im a troll haha when you people would gladly ruin a game to suit your needs) your examples of the doc and joker joining cerberus was explanied and developed...while making shep gay when he wasnt in the first two is somehow "ok" with yall
the fact is that if they dont add the option to s/s romance in me3 then it would be very little lost if any at all and thats an irrefutable fact...

Alright alienatedflea, you're being too antagonistic. Take the day off, relax.

[Wittand25]

I personally dont like the idea of everyone turning bisexual, because I think that that is cheap writing. One bisexual option per sex is enough (two would be better) so that if you decide to play a homosexual Shepard you have at least the choice to pursue a romance or not. Even straight females don't get to romance every male NPC on board (for some strange reason every female NPC is romance-able though even if not all of them give the achievement) so demanding to be able to take your pick from all the LIs is a bit much. Considering that after a certain point the romances are mutually exclusive you cant have more than one active anyhow, so having all of them available to everyone would be a waste of resources.

I think that we all agree that the romance lines must be better marked in future instalments (emoticons,colour or some other way). Having the romance trigger as quick time event like the interrupts could be interesting but it might detract from what the NPC is telling Shepard if the player has constantly watch out for the interrupt sign to pop up.



@alienatedflea: You get called a troll because you insist to ask the same question even though it has been answered several times. This indicates that either you don't read the responses,or are unwilling/unable to understand them, so troll is actually one of the less insulting terms that comes to the mind. Not that I endorse name calling of any kind and I will report anyone (no matter their point of the stance they take on this topic) who does it, just like I will report you if you insist on posting the same pointless argument over and over again.

[DanielJr]

Not to troll, but I'm totally against this idea.  LOL... whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Modifié par DanielJr, 30 juillet 2010 - 05:37 .

[KingofMyself]

If anything, it all depends on the personality. I don't see male or female Shepard with bisexual/homosexual tendencies, but that's my own preference. The beauty of Shepard is that he/she can be molded somewhat to the character's own preference, so you could have such a relationship depending on the character.



The trouble is to make sure people don't expect EVERY character to be a potential pursuit. Certain characters simply do not match up toward various orientations. Jacob doesn't strike me as one who swings both ways, and Jack even states it out loud; Garrus only sleeps with FemShep out of respect, and the relationship between Thane and male Shepard is clearly friendly in nature. To say the least, only certain characters' personalities seem open to the possibility, and considering how Kelly seems like the only person seemingly open enough to bisexuality, I find it hard to imagine homosexual options being thrown in without making the whole crew bisexual - if so, that'd be one hell of a coincidence.



In the end, it's all about good writing. And romance is a difficult enough thing to manage the way Bioware's handled it, so I can't complain. I'm open to seeing the options in the future, I just don't want it forced for risk of ruining the characters.

[StreetlightEagle]

Have we actually seen a gay character in any Bioware game... ever? I don't think we have. Needs to be rectified. I get that they won't be able to do it with the Mass Effect series due to the testosterone fuelled shooter fans they are aiming them for but as DA2 looks like it's gonna have a million companions then hopefully they will make a couple of gay and lesbian romances.

[ScotGaymer]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Have we actually seen a gay character in any Bioware game... ever? I don't think we have. Needs to be rectified. I get that they won't be able to do it with the Mass Effect series due to the testosterone fuelled shooter fans they are aiming them for but as DA2 looks like it's gonna have a million companions then hopefully they will make a couple of gay and lesbian romances.

See I dont agree with arguement.

I agree that thats probably why Bioware HASNT included m/m options in ME1 or 2 cos they pussied out at the last minute. But I dont think its a valid reason.

Most of the people who play mass effect are bioware fans. Cos frankly ME isnt enough of a shooter to be really popular with the truely hardcore shooter crowd and its not enough of an RPG to properly appeal to the RPG crowd. I mean my flatmate loves RPgs and Bioware but cant play ME; he just couldnt get into it cos it was "too shootery".

Most of the folk who play ME and ME2 (if this forum and the articles and other fan sites ive seen are anything to go by) are existing Bioware and ME fans. People who are generally speaking not in one camp or the other (RPG or shooter) and most of people seem to want or would happily have included diverse romances including romances with aliens, minorities, and homosexuals/bisexuals.

So I dont think this reasoning holds water at all.

[zvbxrpl]

To expand on the point M1tt3ns made several posts ago, I don't actually buy that each playthrough is fundamentally the same.  If, say, a hypothetical squadmate (let's call her Nora) romances an MShep in my playthrough and an FShep in your playthrough, and never expresses interest in characters of the opposite gender of either Shep in either playthrough (i.e. you play MShep, and Nora never expresses attraction to women, in spite of the fact that there is code available to facilitate an FShep/Nora romance in other playthroughs), then Nora is not actually bi.  Rather, just as with Shep, Nora's sexuality (and that of any other NPC that may follow the Nora template) varies based on the playthrough.  If every romanceable squaddie was availible to both MShep and FShep, then if they followed the format of this made-up squaddie Nora, it would not actually be a case of 'everyone is bi.'

That being said, there are a couple of concerns that make me, at best, skeptical of this being the way that same-sex romance gets into ME3.

First, if Bioware makes it so easy to initiate a romantic conversation path without trying, like in ME2, then all of a sudden all romanceable NPCs, and not just a subset of them, would be someone Shep can't be nice to without starting a romance, (which, seeing as I romanced Jack but still wanted to be friendly to Tali in my MShep playthrough, is something I really don't want to happen).

Second, leaving Squaddies' sexuality undefined would kind of screw with a lot of potential to flesh out NPCs' backstories.  For example, in DA:O, Leliana's sidequest would not have nearly as much emotional significance if she hadn't been in love with Marjolaine.  If that was cut in the case of male Wardens, it'd kinda suck.

So, I don't think that making all romance options availible to all Sheps would mean that everyone was bi, but at the same time, if it didn't, there could be some unwanted consequences as far as the story goes.  Rather, I think that the best way to go about facilitating same-sex romances would, in fact, be to take a leaf from DA:O's book.  Have one straight, romanceable squaddie of each gender, and one bisexual, romanceable squaddie of each gender.  I would actually add a third pair--one romanceable gay man and one romanceable lesbian.  That way, both straight Sheps and gay Sheps would have two potential romance options.*

*This is, of course, in addition to the returning romanceable NPCs.  I would probably have availible the continuation of romances started in previous games, but no more.  For example, if FShep romanced Garrus in ME2, the romance would continue in ME3, but if she did not, then he would not be available to romance in ME3.  Presumably those squaddies would have picked up on Shep's disinterest and moved on.

[Siansonea]

DanielJr wrote...

Not to troll, but I'm totally against this idea.  LOL... whatever floats your boat, I guess.

It is perfectly acceptable to express a negative opinion on this topic. If you are against the idea, you are within your rights to say so, and to respectfully state your reasons for your viewpoint. We can even discuss questions you have about the issue if you like. As long as we are all respectful of the fact that others do not share our opinion, the conversation can be quite enlightening to everyone involved.

[Anezay]

I'm cool with it as long as they don't retcon the existing characters.

[Siansonea]

KingofMyself wrote...

If anything, it all depends on the personality. I don't see male or female Shepard with bisexual/homosexual tendencies, but that's my own preference. The beauty of Shepard is that he/she can be molded somewhat to the character's own preference, so you could have such a relationship depending on the character.

The trouble is to make sure people don't expect EVERY character to be a potential pursuit. Certain characters simply do not match up toward various orientations. Jacob doesn't strike me as one who swings both ways, and Jack even states it out loud; Garrus only sleeps with FemShep out of respect, and the relationship between Thane and male Shepard is clearly friendly in nature. To say the least, only certain characters' personalities seem open to the possibility, and considering how Kelly seems like the only person seemingly open enough to bisexuality, I find it hard to imagine homosexual options being thrown in without making the whole crew bisexual - if so, that'd be one hell of a coincidence.

In the end, it's all about good writing. And romance is a difficult enough thing to manage the way Bioware's handled it, so I can't complain. I'm open to seeing the options in the future, I just don't want it forced for risk of ruining the characters.

I think a lot of the objection about Shepard 'turning gay' is that there is a widely held assumption that gay and bisexual people are somehow fundamentally different from heterosexual people. Sexuality is only part of what makes us human, and while it might influence us in many ways, it does not define who we are. Society tends to segregate us by sexual type, but if this were not the case, you would find that people were a good deal more similar to one another than they are different from one another. We are human first; straight, gay, bi, etc., is further down on the list of things that influence identity. Especially if social conditions don't artificially stratify the population. I think it's perfectly believable that Shepard of either gender could be bisexual. Presumably in 2185 we humans have gotten past those silly 21st Century attitudes about sexuality.

That said, I also agree that suddenly having every character open to same-sex romance is unrealistic. Not everyone is bisexual and it would feel artificial to me if suddenly all the LIs were. That said, some characters could easily be expanded to include bisexual tendencies, and it almost doesn't matter which ones. Just because there hasn't been any conversation about it prior games doesn't mean the tendency hasn't been there all along. I don't recall any NPC stating unequivocally that they are exclusively heterosexual. Jack's statements come the closest to this, so if anything she would be the character that would be least believable as a same-sex LI, in my opinion.

And it really does come down to good writing. I think the writers did an okay job shoehorning in the Garrus and Tali romances, though they still felt somewhat forced to me. Hopefully if the writers do decide to include same-sex content, it would be implemented believably. The general quality of the ME2 dialogue does not give me much hope of this, sadly.

[Siansonea]

zvbxrpl wrote...

To expand on the point M1tt3ns made several posts ago, I don't actually buy that each playthrough is fundamentally the same.  If, say, a hypothetical squadmate (let's call her Nora) romances an MShep in my playthrough and an FShep in your playthrough, and never expresses interest in characters of the opposite gender of either Shep in either playthrough (i.e. you play MShep, and Nora never expresses attraction to women, in spite of the fact that there is code available to facilitate an FShep/Nora romance in other playthroughs), then Nora is not actually bi.  Rather, just as with Shep, Nora's sexuality (and that of any other NPC that may follow the Nora template) varies based on the playthrough.  If every romanceable squaddie was availible to both MShep and FShep, then if they followed the format of this made-up squaddie Nora, it would not actually be a case of 'everyone is bi.'

That being said, there are a couple of concerns that make me, at best, skeptical of this being the way that same-sex romance gets into ME3.

First, if Bioware makes it so easy to initiate a romantic conversation path without trying, like in ME2, then all of a sudden all romanceable NPCs, and not just a subset of them, would be someone Shep can't be nice to without starting a romance, (which, seeing as I romanced Jack but still wanted to be friendly to Tali in my MShep playthrough, is something I really don't want to happen).

Second, leaving Squaddies' sexuality undefined would kind of screw with a lot of potential to flesh out NPCs' backstories.  For example, in DA:O, Leliana's sidequest would not have nearly as much emotional significance if she hadn't been in love with Marjolaine.  If that was cut in the case of male Wardens, it'd kinda suck.

So, I don't think that making all romance options availible to all Sheps would mean that everyone was bi, but at the same time, if it didn't, there could be some unwanted consequences as far as the story goes.  Rather, I think that the best way to go about facilitating same-sex romances would, in fact, be to take a leaf from DA:O's book.  Have one straight, romanceable squaddie of each gender, and one bisexual, romanceable squaddie of each gender.  I would actually add a third pair--one romanceable gay man and one romanceable lesbian.  That way, both straight Sheps and gay Sheps would have two potential romance options.*

*This is, of course, in addition to the returning romanceable NPCs.  I would probably have availible the continuation of romances started in previous games, but no more.  For example, if FShep romanced Garrus in ME2, the romance would continue in ME3, but if she did not, then he would not be available to romance in ME3.  Presumably those squaddies would have picked up on Shep's disinterest and moved on.

This feels very 'metagame' to me. While Shepard is a variable character, I don't think the other characters in the game are. They are who they are. If they are available for romance for both genders, they are bisexual, and that should be part of who the characters are, though not necessarily a 'big' part. There can't be a 'straight' Nora and a 'gay' Nora, because Nora is the same person regardless of Shepard's influence. It also feels really artificial that anyone the player is interested is automatically available as an LI, that is fanservice of the highest magnitude. Some characters really should reject Shepard's advances, not everyone would realistically want to schtupp an undead Cerberus stooge of either gender.

[Bookman230]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Have we actually seen a gay character in any Bioware game... ever? I don't think we have. Needs to be rectified. I get that they won't be able to do it with the Mass Effect series due to the testosterone fuelled shooter fans they are aiming them for but as DA2 looks like it's gonna have a million companions then hopefully they will make a couple of gay and lesbian romances.

Sky and Zevran. Just giving Bioware some credit where credit is due.

[Wittand25]

Bookman230 wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Have we actually seen a gay character in any Bioware game... ever? I don't think we have. Needs to be rectified. I get that they won't be able to do it with the Mass Effect series due to the testosterone fuelled shooter fans they are aiming them for but as DA2 looks like it's gonna have a million companions then hopefully they will make a couple of gay and lesbian romances.

Sky and Zevran. Just giving Bioware some credit where credit is due.

Technically those two are bisexual not gay, not that that matters or upset anyone pursuing a homosexual romance with them. But a truly gay love interest is something never done by Bioware and considering the amount of work involved and the size of the target audience it wont likely happen (prove me wrong Bioware).
Wade and Herren would qualify as gay characters but those two are a couple and no love interests for the warden.

[Jigero]

The lesbian thing would sorta work. It really doesn't make sense why Jack isn't a least bi curious, For soem oen who uses sex as a hand shake and has no respect for her own body or any one else, doesn't really compute. Miranda.... maybe but it's iffy. Tali might work, she's never been with a guy before, she's still quiet young. She never mentions having crushes or anything on other guys.



But I just don't see the Male thing working at all. Garrus wouldn't work you would litterally run the risk of killing each other because of Turian and human physiology. Thane, was a married man for years and can remember every sexual experience with his wife to the T, and he suddenly goes ******? yea doesn't make sense. Zaeed.... dear god I don't even wanna think about it. Grunt? good luck with that. Jacob? maybe but Jacob he's geeky and a straitlaced military man, Doubtful. Mordin? highly unlikely Salarains think about nothing but breeding and Romancing Mordin would be like trying to teach a hamster on crack french. and all that's left is Legion.... yea.... no.

[Rogue Unit]

I've always wondered if the people requesting same sex romances were gay. I mean I know some are gay but I could never understand why a straight man would want to watch two men have sex. Are they closet homos?

No disrespect intended I'm just curious. That's all.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 30 juillet 2010 - 08:43 .

[Wittand25]

Jigero wrote...

The lesbian thing would sorta work. It really doesn't make sense why Jack isn't a least bi curious, For soem oen who uses sex as a hand shake and has no respect for her own body or any one else, doesn't really compute. Miranda.... maybe but it's iffy. Tali might work, she's never been with a guy before, she's still quiet young. She never mentions having crushes or anything on other guys.

But I just don't see the Male thing working at all. Garrus wouldn't work you would litterally run the risk of killing each other because of Turian and human physiology. Thane, was a married man for years and can remember every sexual experience with his wife to the T, and he suddenly goes ******? yea doesn't make sense. Zaeed.... dear god I don't even wanna think about it. Grunt? good luck with that. Jacob? maybe but Jacob he's geeky and a straitlaced military man, Doubtful. Mordin? highly unlikely Salarains think about nothing but breeding and Romancing Mordin would be like trying to teach a hamster on crack french. and all that's left is Legion.... yea.... no.

You are straight and male right ?

Just some things regarding the males you mentioned.
Thane was married to a female Drell, and that fact tell us nothing about any preference regarding humans, because neither do we know how they look or what about them is attractive to male Drells.
Jacob caused more than once a blip of my Gaydar with the mutual admiration of their bodies that he and MShep share as well with his remark that there are no rules concerning fraternisation by Cerberus.
The point you bring up regarding Garrus is equally standing in the way of the straight Tali and Garrus romance, and regarding his previous sexual partners the same applies as for Thane. 

Modifié par Wittand25, 30 juillet 2010 - 08:54 .

[ADLegend21]

I support this thread.

[Siansonea]

Sigh.



If I recall correctly, at no point in any of the Mass Effect romance storylines have we ever 'watched people have sex'. And no, you don't have to be gay to appreciate a well-written storyline featuring gay characters, including romantic content. We're not talking about porn here. And it isn't all about one's own sexuality or gender or whatever. I can enjoy a male Shepard playthrough, for instance, even though I am a female player. I don't have to insert myself into the story, I can enjoy the story regardless of the characters involved and the romantic configurations.



And actually, 'closet homosexuals' are much more likely to express extreme disgust and/or disavowal of same-sex content. They believe by expressing an obvious anti-gay viewpoint, they are somehow making it less likely that they will be seen as gay themselves. This has been seen time and again with conservative politicians and activists who have spearheaded anti-gay legislation, etc. Most people who are comfortable and secure in their own sexuality either don't care one way or the other, or are happy to have the content included for others that want the content.



The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

[LiquidGrape]

Rogue Unit wrote...

I've always wondered if the people requesting same sex romances were gay. I mean I know some are gay but I could never understand why a straight man would want to watch two men have sex. Are they closet homos?

No disrespect intended I'm just curious. That's all.

Well, I can obviously only speak for myself, but I like to think that every human being is at least curious; regardless of what sexual orientation they might identify themselves with.
Unless, of course, you harbour an irrational fear and disgust towards the subject. But homophobia is a pathological issue which shouldn't have any bearing on a modern, reasonable society.

So I consider it just another step in roleplaying experience. It's not a secret that many prominent m/m slash fiction writers are homosexual women, and it wouldn't surprise me if the opposite could be true as well.

Then there's also the very likely possibility of latent bisexual tendencies. Lord knows I have them.

[Rogue Unit]

Siansonea II wrote...

Sigh.

If I recall correctly, at no point in any of the Mass Effect romance storylines have we ever 'watched people have sex'. And no, you don't have to be gay to appreciate a well-written storyline featuring gay characters, including romantic content. We're not talking about porn here. And it isn't all about one's own sexuality or gender or whatever. I can enjoy a male Shepard playthrough, for instance, even though I am a female player. I don't have to insert myself into the story, I can enjoy the story regardless of the characters involved and the romantic configurations.

And actually, 'closet homosexuals' are much more likely to express extreme disgust and/or disavowal of same-sex content. They believe by expressing an obvious anti-gay viewpoint, they are somehow making it less likely that they will be seen as gay themselves. This has been seen time and again with conservative politicians and activists who have spearheaded anti-gay legislation, etc. Most people who are comfortable and secure in their own sexuality either don't care one way or the other, or are happy to have the content included for others that want the content.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

Wow.  I asked a question,  no need to do the whole sighing "I have to explain this to anothjer idiot" act. But thanks for explaining that to me.  Im for you guys getting what you want as long as they dont come on to me and I don't have to really hear about their sexuality unless your romancing them. Like how Kelly tells you Tali is interested in you, her saying the same thing about Jacob would disturb me.

This goes both ways.