9243 réponses à ce sujet

[SorenTrigg]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Thinking about this, I'm starting to feel like I dislike the whole romance mechanic in this game. Its making every character in the game exactly what you want that character to be. Want thane to be a buddy who has no interest in you? No problem. Want him to be hetero is madly in love with you? Sounds good. Want him to be gay and have him sit around in your cabin picking out wallpaper designs? Go for it.

They've become not so much characters in a story but little dolls with which you can have tea parties.

I actually like Kelly best because there is a little mystery there. The others are simple, press A for bromance, press B for torrid love affair, press C for casual sex in my cabin.

You could easily argue the same thing about every dialogue choice in the game that actually changes anything.
Characters acting different depending on what you say and do is not really a bad thing. Especially in a game where that is one of the main parts of it.

And you have to remember. It is not the character changing, or anything. It is Shepard changing and that character reacting how they would to that situation.

[Whatever42]

SorenTrigg wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Thinking about this, I'm starting to feel like I dislike the whole romance mechanic in this game. Its making every character in the game exactly what you want that character to be. Want thane to be a buddy who has no interest in you? No problem. Want him to be hetero is madly in love with you? Sounds good. Want him to be gay and have him sit around in your cabin picking out wallpaper designs? Go for it.

They've become not so much characters in a story but little dolls with which you can have tea parties.

I actually like Kelly best because there is a little mystery there. The others are simple, press A for bromance, press B for torrid love affair, press C for casual sex in my cabin.

You could easily argue the same thing about every dialogue choice in the game that actually changes anything.
Characters acting different depending on what you say and do is not really a bad thing. Especially in a game where that is one of the main parts of it.

And you have to remember. It is not the character changing, or anything. It is Shepard changing and that character reacting how they would to that situation.

Certain things Shepard can control. Some he can influence. Some he can't control at all. Thats pretty  believable to me and I can get into a story like that.

I can choose to stop one NPC from killing someone but I can't choose to stop another.

The romances, though, feel different to me. Half the crew is romanceable. They all love you, no matter what you do. They all accept that you are interested in them or not. And now we're suggesting that they're all gay if you pick the pink text. Real human beings rarely function like that and certainly not a whole crew of them and I'm finding the mechanic jarring.

In Morrowind, the game is very easy to mod and people made romance companions like crazy, because the game has no romance options. However, I dislike those too. I lose any feel of connection of that relationship to the setting or the story. Its artificial. A blow up doll made of pixels.

I like DA:O better but think it should have been based more on choices and less on cute gifts.

This really has nothing to do with homosexuality per se. If they wanted to throw a couple gay guys on the crew, I could not care less even they even hit on me. Its simply adding that adding more options to an already shaky (to me) mechanic is just making it worse.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 31 juillet 2010 - 07:04 .

[Poaches]

In some cases, push A for instant romance and Push B to insult them so badly they'll hate you forever.

From what I hear, ME2 had incredibly flattened characters; probably because some were just added as LI's to please the younger console audience. maybe.

They haven't exactly strayed far from bisexual only, no gays rule.

Modifié par Poaches, 31 juillet 2010 - 07:14 .

[catabuca]

Having romances in a game like this is always going to be a little clunky I think. If they are meant to be a romancable character there has to be a mechanic in place to get from a to b, so to speak. In one way, I think ME2 did some things well in shaking it up a bit, in terms of Samara turning you down, and even (don't shout at me) with Jacob getting stroppy if you turn him down during one of the conversations in the armoury (although that only happened to me because the freaking romance triggered when I didn't want it to >.<). However, the romances all fell a little short for me in ME2. I'm willing to accept nostalgia and my allegiance to Kaidan may play a part in that, but there was something about the structure and story surrounding ME1 that made me feel closer to my LI in that game.



One thing I am sure about is that the dialogue is way too short if you don't or can't romance a particular character. You can chat to them maybe 4 times about different things then that's it, no more. I understand each line of dialogue is another animation, more VA time, but part of why I didn't like the characters in ME2 as much was because I didn't have the time to get close to them (apart from Mordin - I enjoyed talking to him).

[Siansonea]

Mordin, Legion and Samara have the best NPC interaction in ME2, and I'm pretty sure it's because they aren't LIs. All the others seem to be rather arbitrary in their 'cutoff point' with Shepard, since the LI dialogue exists as a continuation of the 'friendship' dialogue, rather than another tangent altogether.

[Tirigon]

Adriano87 wrote...

and you see humans as Just MATTER and RELATED EMOTIONS. you believe in nothing but ANARCHY. you despise Reason and Morality; you're such a nasty Animal.

You, good ser, fail.

1. Humans ARE animals.

2. As such, they are, in fact, nothing but matter and emotions....

3. If you believe in anarchy, you can´t despise morality and reason because these are necessary requirements for anarchy.

4. Anarchy is the only way to go. There is no authority but yourself. You should learn to use your brain for thinking instead of for insulting others.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordin, Legion and Samara have the best NPC interaction in ME2, and I'm pretty sure it's because they aren't LIs. All the others seem to be rather arbitrary in their 'cutoff point' with Shepard, since the LI dialogue exists as a continuation of the 'friendship' dialogue, rather than another tangent altogether.

This is not entirely true.. I managed to complete all the dialogues with Thane, and to hear all the history of his life and to comfort him about his son with my femal Shepard without triggering the romance, and he has many and long interactions.. Obviously, at a certain point I saw to pop out a dialogue option saying "I want you", that was in my opinion a little to weird because I had the feeling it triggered out from nowhere and for no reason, but it was enough to ignore it and to continue the dialogue using another answer

What I find totally senseless is that some dialogue lines which are  romance dialogues for a gender are considered Paragon Dialogues for the other. You can tell Jack "I admire you" and "I am interested in you" with Femal Shepard, but instead of triggering the romance they give you +2 paragon points

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 31 juillet 2010 - 11:37 .

[Whatever42]

catabuca wrote...

Having romances in a game like this is always going to be a little clunky I think. If they are meant to be a romancable character there has to be a mechanic in place to get from a to b, so to speak. In one way, I think ME2 did some things well in shaking it up a bit, in terms of Samara turning you down, and even (don't shout at me) with Jacob getting stroppy if you turn him down during one of the conversations in the armoury (although that only happened to me because the freaking romance triggered when I didn't want it to >.

One thing I am sure about is that the dialogue is way too short if you don't or can't romance a particular character. You can chat to them maybe 4 times about different things then that's it, no more. I understand each line of dialogue is another animation, more VA time, but part of why I didn't like the characters in ME2 as much was because I didn't have the time to get close to them (apart from Mordin - I enjoyed talking to him).

Agree totally. Although, for me, the key to make the romance better would be to integrate it into the story more. I imagine a DA:O mechanic, where the LI comes to like and love you because of your choices in the game. Heroically rescue the baby from the burning house, Tali adores you. Shove the volus merchant's head into a paper shredder because he wouldn't give you a discount and Garrus gets all hot and bothered. 

And then, even then, I think the romance should be weaved into the narrative of the story somehow, such as with Morgaine in DA:O. 

I know, that would necessitate limiting the romance options, which would probably limit the game for some players. If there is a Tali romance but you hate Tali then game is reduced.

It's not a big thing for me. I thought the romances in ME2 were cute and the different tropes were decently written and even somewhat immersive, if just brief. I just don't think it can stand having pink text involved without getting silly.  Introduce a gay character if you want a gay romance. 

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 31 juillet 2010 - 11:43 .

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordin, Legion and Samara have the best NPC interaction in ME2, and I'm pretty sure it's because they aren't LIs. All the others seem to be rather arbitrary in their 'cutoff point' with Shepard, since the LI dialogue exists as a continuation of the 'friendship' dialogue, rather than another tangent altogether.

Legion is a LI, at least in my mind :wub:, look my sig.

Also, Mordin. I am not sure whether I shall be happy that he doesn´t want to get romantically involved because he is at least an established character and not a doll like the others, or whether I shall be sad. My MaleShep would have preferred him over Tali, that´s for sure.......

[ScotGaymer]

Actually I find it depends on the sex of ur character if the squadmates are sensible or not.



As MaleShepard I had really good positive friendly interactions with Samara, Mordin, Legion, (Zaeed and Kasumi), Garrus (the Best Bromance thing is really great), Grunt (the whole Shepard is MY Battlemaster thing brilliant), and Thane (I am totally in love with Thane as a character - I was so sad my ManShep couldnt romance him). The only badly done character with MaleShep is Jacob - god I hate talking to Jacob. Even as a friend he gets too close too fast. Eugh.

Of course all the female LIs turn into mindless dribbling idiots who hate you if you dont pursue them as MaleShep. Tali's is the best of them and I think it is bugged cos you can tell her you love her as a friend and nothing more but it doesnt seem to "close" the potential romance - in one game I told her 3 times I only liked her as a friend and then I romanced her and the whole time she acted like I hadnt said anything at all. Was weird.



I presume for FemShep the situation is the same except its the male love interests that are idiots and the females who become interesting friends.

[MaxQuartiroli]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I presume for FemShep the situation is the same except its the male love interests that are idiots and the females who become interesting friends.

Not at all.. With Tali and Miranda you just don't have further dialogues.. After their loyalty mission they just thank you for help and after that they stop to talk with you.. It's funny that you have finished all the available dialogue lines with a companion when you are about half of the game

Jack has more dialogues.. At least she tells you her personal history

EDIT.. Thinking well.. The problem was not of gender but how they implemented the characters.. Tali and Miranda had few dialogue lines no matter what. Both of them just stop having something to tell you at half of the game if you

1) are of the same gender
2) are of the opposite Gen and don't romance them

And if you romance them you have a couple of dialogues and after that the romance is "freezed" until you go to Omega 4

Jack and Thane at the opposite have a lot of dialogues even if you are of same gender/don't romance them

In my opinion, therefore it is not a problem of romances/genders.. it's just that some characters really suffer of lack of interactions

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 01 août 2010 - 12:27 .

[zvbxrpl]

Siansonea II wrote...

zvbxrpl wrote...
*snip wall of text*

This feels very 'metagame' to me. While Shepard is a variable character, I don't think the other characters in the game are. They are who they are. If they are available for romance for both genders, they are bisexual, and that should be part of who the characters are, though not necessarily a 'big' part. There can't be a 'straight' Nora and a 'gay' Nora, because Nora is the same person regardless of Shepard's influence. It also feels really artificial that anyone the player is interested is automatically available as an LI, that is fanservice of the highest magnitude. Some characters really should reject Shepard's advances, not everyone would realistically want to schtupp an undead Cerberus stooge of either gender.

This doesn't just feel metagame, it totally is.  Think of it as being akin to some of the plot divergences in Mass Effects 1 and 2.  There's no real canon, so, for example, either Samara or Morinth could be dead, and the Council has either been replaced or not been replaced, and so on.  The designers could, concievable, structure the dialogue so that there's a "Schrodinger's sexuality" sort of situation as detailed with 'Nora'.  That way, the player could have more options without having every love interest being established as bisexual.

However, (and read this closely), I DO NOT ACTUALLY THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO INCORPORATE SAME-SEX ROMANCE INTO ME3.

This is because, as I said in my previous post, any details of those characters' prior love lives would have to be excised from the script to keep up the "Schrodinger's sexuality" construct.  That's a big hole in the backstory of the characters, and would probably harm the immersion of a game series that's already lost too much of Bioware's typical in-depth party member characterization.

As I said in the post you quoted (did you read past the section about 'Nora?'), I would actually much prefer things done like they were in DA:O, possibly with the addition of one gay male LI and one lesbian LI to the setup in that game (i.e. one straight male LI, one straight female LI, one bisexual male LI, and one bisexual female LI).

******

(ADDENDUM, RE: is the scheme I examined and rejected fanservice): I'd say that fanservice is only really a bad thing in a couple of cases.  The first is when it's unevenly applied across demographic lines (see every movie or video game that focuses its shots on female characters' curves without really giving people who aren't into girls anything to look at.  Pro Tip:  That's most of them.).  We could argue, that, in a sophisticated way, that's part of the point of this thread--gay players asking if they could have nice things too.  The second is when it is detrimental to character or story.  That would probably be the problem with the 'Nora' model of "Schrodinger's sexuality," btw.  For an example relevant to Mass Effect, look no further than Tali's character in ME2.  There were some interesting subplots and character arcs associated with her (mostly to do with Flotilla politics and her relationship with her father).  But all of those got next to no attention, because the designers decided that basically every conversation with her should be about her schoolgirl crush on Shepard.  A lot of fans were clamoring for her to be an LI (seeing as she's sort of the 'geeky kid sister' type, I'm not entirely sure how comfortable I am with that.  The answer is probably "Considerably less than I was before reading a lot of what's on the internet."), and the cost of making that so was that everything interesting about her was basically a footnote in ME2.

[Syledir]

Siansonea II wrote...

While Shepard is a variable character, I don't think the other characters in the game are. They are who they are. If they are available for romance for both genders, they are bisexual, and that should be part of who the characters are, though not necessarily a 'big' part. 

I am not sure about the "They are who they are" part. In played Mass Effect 1 many times. During my playthrough as a Paragon I talked to Garrus a few times and it always went like this: "No, we shouldn't sacrifice civilians. That's evil." "Hm, I guess you are right, Shepard." In the end he decided to return to C-Sec and continue his work as a conscientious cop. During my playthrough as a Renegade it went like this: "We shouldn't hesitate to sacrifice civilians. It's for the greater good." "Hm, I guess you are right, Shepard." In the end he decided to apply to the spectres as a ruthless killer.
The same story with Ashley. In my first playthrough she is willing to save the Council, believing in galactic unity. In playthrough later she is willing to let them burn, believing in human superiority.

One could say that, if they are the same person in every playthrough, their opinions are easy to temper with. That they are weak minded drones with a personality that is malleable like hot wax.

Yet I see both, galactic-unity-Ashley and human-superiority-Ashley as two individuals, independent from each other. Like two versions from two different alternate universes, if you want to see it that way.
So why should it be different regarding sexuality? Couldn't there be a straight Ashley in one alternate universe and a lesbian Ashley in another?

It also feels really artificial that anyone the player is interested is automatically available as an LI, that is fanservice of the highest magnitude.

You make it sound like a bad thing.
Alright, you're right. However, if that is fanservice, the same can be said about Garrus and Tali.

[Siansonea]

Syledir wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

While Shepard is a variable character, I don't think the other characters in the game are. They are who they are. If they are available for romance for both genders, they are bisexual, and that should be part of who the characters are, though not necessarily a 'big' part. 

I am not sure about the "They are who they are" part. In played Mass Effect 1 many times. During my playthrough as a Paragon I talked to Garrus a few times and it always went like this: "No, we shouldn't sacrifice civilians. That's evil." "Hm, I guess you are right, Shepard." In the end he decided to return to C-Sec and continue his work as a conscientious cop. During my playthrough as a Renegade it went like this: "We shouldn't hesitate to sacrifice civilians. It's for the greater good." "Hm, I guess you are right, Shepard." In the end he decided to apply to the spectres as a ruthless killer.
The same story with Ashley. In my first playthrough she is willing to save the Council, believing in galactic unity. In playthrough later she is willing to let them burn, believing in human superiority.

One could say that, if they are the same person in every playthrough, their opinions are easy to temper with. That they are weak minded drones with a personality that is malleable like hot wax.

Yet I see both, galactic-unity-Ashley and human-superiority-Ashley as two individuals, independent from each other. Like two versions from two different alternate universes, if you want to see it that way.
So why should it be different regarding sexuality? Couldn't there be a straight Ashley in one alternate universe and a lesbian Ashley in another?

Well, there's a difference between being influenced by Shepard, and having an alternate backstory. Of course the characters are influenced by Shepard to varying degrees, though you will notice that regardless of Garrus' intent at the ME1, he still ends up in the same place in ME2. Same with Tali, Ashley, Kaidan, Liara, and Wrex. They may be high on Shepard's fumes for a while in ME1, but when Shepard is removed from the equation, they pretty much default back to their own way of thinking. The 'alternate universe gay Ashley/Kaidan/whoever' idea doesn't sit well with me, because it essentially creates multiple versions of the characters prior to the events of the game. I guess I am just against that. I think it's much better for those characters to simply reveal that they are bisexual, if they are implemented as same-sex LIs. A bisexual character can still pursue opposite-sex romance, it happens all the time in real life.

It also feels really artificial that anyone the player is interested is automatically available as an LI, that is fanservice of the highest magnitude.

You make it sound like a bad thing.
Alright, you're right. However, if that is fanservice, the same can be said about Garrus and Tali.

You will not hear me say that the Garrus and Tali romances aren't fanservice. I think that they are really well-done fanservice for the most part, and I'm not terribly bothered by them, but I would hope that if the writers do go the fanservice route in ME3, that they do so at least as well as they did with Garrus and Tali, and hopefully better.

Speaking of writing, I really dislike the fact that Kaidan and Ashley start to feel like the same character in ME2, having very similar dialogue and whatnot. I HOPE that Kaidan and Ashley as implemented in ME3 feel like natural progressions of their characters, rather than just two sides of the same coin. Whether or not they are same-sex LIs or not, they need to be individuals.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 01 août 2010 - 03:32 .

[Geth001]

Syledir wrote...

Uhm...well...So, you don't approve?

Not in the slightest. And as far as I can tell, your only argument for doing this (or at least, your only argument against my points) is "because other things were insanely unlikely coincidences, throwing in a few more won't hurt"

To which I say: "It totally would"

And just for the record, a number of your teammates had rather plausible reasons for being single anyway (one is a genetic carrier for sexual serial killers (and is a mass-murdering-monk), one's race doesn't have a concept of marriage, one's a pod-baby, one's been in isolated confinement) In human cultures, people like your entire recruitment team generally don't geat themselves towards family life, either. As for the "why can none of them solve their own problems?" Zaaed and Kasumi's loyalty missions were part of their payment for getting on-board, and literally none of the rest of your team even knew about the circumstances of their loyalty missions until they were already part of your crew. So the odds for that are about 1 in 1.

[SorenTrigg]

Geth001 wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Uhm...well...So, you don't approve?

Not in the slightest. And as far as I can tell, your only argument for doing this (or at least, your only argument against my points) is "because other things were insanely unlikely coincidences, throwing in a few more won't hurt"

To which I say: "It totally would"

Well...could you explain why?
Your post did not really state why you think it would hurt things.

[JockBuster]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Wow.  I asked a question,  no need to do the whole sighing "I have to explain this to another idiot" act. But thanks for explaining that to me.  Im for you guys getting what you want as long as they dont come on to me and I don't have to really hear about their sexuality unless your romancing them. Like how Kelly tells you Tali is interested in you, her saying the same thing about Jacob would disturb me.

This goes both ways.

Hey man. You actually seem like quite a nice fella. But I am sorry to say that your ignorance about gay folks and bisexual people actually borders on homophobia.

And before you cry "im not homophobic!" like most do in this situation, you are certainly coming off that way. Let me inform you now that it just as it is possible to be racist via indifference and willful ignorance it is also possible to be homophobic in the same manner.

I dont believe for a moment that you are stupid or that you are meaning to be homophobic; but im afraid you are.
And as Sioneasa(sp?) II said if you are younger then your viewpoint is understandable but if you are older than say 22ish then your really should have outgrown it by now.

I mean yikes.

Its perfectly possible for a straight man (or woman) to appreciate homosexual content (dependant on the context of course) in a game or a movie or a book; just as it is possible for a homosexual man (or woman) to appreciate heterosexual content.
I had a friend growing up who was a str8 bloke and he was my best friend for many many years; and he was totally comfortable with me and with me being gay. Ive seen him naked, hes seen me naked; we have watched "adult movies" together (gay, str8, and bi), we have watched gay and str8 normal movies together, hes went with me to gay clubs, and ive gone with him to str8 clubs. Ive helped him pull girls, and hes helped me pull guys.
Did that make him in any way gay or bisexual? No. He was totally str8 and believe me I know because we DID talk about it once.

I dont understand why being told by Kelly that say Thane had developed a bit of a crush on you would disturb you. I mean, im a gay guy and it didnt disturb me to be told Tali had a crush on my StraightMan!Shep. I thought it was really sweet and kinda cute.
On my next playthru I romanced her just because of that. (My first play thru my StraightMan!Shep stayed loyal to Ashley).

Ive always believed it to be a sign of insecurity when a straight person isnt comfortable with a gay person, or cant "wrap their head around it". My friend was totally comfortable in his own sexuality and as a consequence of that he was completely comfortable with MY sexuality; he knew where he was so it didnt matter where I was if you know what i mean?

As I mentioned I have my StraightMan!Shep playthru that I imported from ME1. He was Paragon.
I also have GayMan!Shep who is secretly in love with Kaidan (in my head) and didnt romance anyone in ME1 that im going to import over to ME2 when I complete his playthru. I am holding out for bisexual Kaidan being restored to the games.

Quoting Jack, "grow the F*** up!" (censored by BW)

http://ggeek.net/en/...ss-effect-2008/
Scenario #5: if you’re a gay gamer, then you’re pretty much screwed, but that’s nothing new. You’ll play as male Shepard because he looks like the Dutch model Mark Vanderloo, he’s awfully handsome and you want to identify with him… And ogle him for 20 [60-90+ or 1,800+ in my case] hours. Of course, your Shepard won’t be really interested in Ashley, so you’ll chase her away immediately, you’ll take cold hard cash from the asari escort, you simply don’t trust Liara T’Soni because you know her family history, so all you can do is drag Kaidan Alenko with you to all the missions, talk to him every chance you get, get to know his history, heroically save his life, and in return, he’ll tell you that he has the hots for Liara. Dear developers, thanks for nothing.
It’s usually the female players who get the rough end and who get discriminated by the video game industry, because most of the games of this genre are targeted towards your average gamer who’s in his late twenties or early thirties, and male (with the exception of “girl” games, featuring what the industry thinks girls want – strategies, simulations, lovely things, ponies, etc). A female player would hardly identify with a huge guy who seduces women and waves his enormous gun around. Gay gamers have a slight advantage here, because they can and want to identify with the aforementioned type, and from time to time they get thrown a bone in the form of video game man-love, but you can count those games using fingers of a sawmill worker’s hand.
I hope with ME3 that it IS possible for a MaleShep/FemShep to finally have a  with Kaidan/Ash. The flags are already THERE (and the dialogue, but blocked); ME1 MaleShep saves Kaidan (FemShep saves Ash), Liara left out; NO LI in ME2 (stays celibate), ME2 was a rough reunion on Horizion, but after destroying the collectors Kaidan/Ash (& Anderson/council) realize that Shep WAS doing the right thing all along. [My Shep blows up the base, Miranda resigns, and Shep gives TIM the Finger!] Playing as FemShep female impersonator is not really my thing, but then I do get to renegade Kaiden & seduce him (best dialogue of all choices). 

So it remains unclear, since the game is already rated M and includes lesbionics, why male Shepard can’t enter a relationship with Alenko, when Jade Empire had a similar option. We can only hope that people in charge will find the balls to allow male Shepard to find comfort and support in a man’s firm embrace in the following episodes of the Mass Effect trilogy.
Am I going to buy ME3 yes, but NOT pre-order; same for the Prima "guide" given all the WRONG info in the ME2 guide (ME1 is great). Old Navy term, "ANY port in a storm."
Shepard has the biggest PAIR in the universe (Grunt's Quad is bigger), grow a pair BW & EA.

noun tril·ogy (tril′ə jē)
a set of three related plays, novels, etc. which together form an extended, unified work, though each has its own unity

Modifié par JockBuster, 01 août 2010 - 06:10 .

[alienatedflea]

*thumbs down* because its gonna change the game,,,if you say it wont, then explain to me how it wont...if you add or remove something from the orginal game then you are changing the game...thats how im using change...my definition...so with this change...why do you people want to change a game thats good already? :-/

[FuturePasTimeCE]

alienatedflea wrote...

*thumbs down* because its gonna change the game,,,if you say it wont, then explain to me how it wont...if you add or remove something from the orginal game then you are changing the game...thats how im using change...my definition...so with this change...why do you people want to change a game thats good already? :-/

I don't know... but Liara should have been Kelly in Mass Effect 2... :unsure:zephard's senior councilor/advisor... 

[Geth001]

SorenTrigg wrote...

Geth001 wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Uhm...well...So, you don't approve?

Not in the slightest. And as far as I can tell, your only argument for doing this (or at least, your only argument against my points) is "because other things were insanely unlikely coincidences, throwing in a few more won't hurt"

To which I say: "It totally would"

Well...could you explain why?
Your post did not really state why you think it would hurt things.

I stated it in my earlier post. Basically, it boils down to there being absolutely no possible way to write your entire squad suddenly being bisexual in a remotely believeable or tasteful manner.

That is, it'll be in there for pure fanservice. The last time character writing was added for Fanservice, we were forced to drag Garrus and Tali through the exact same goodamn character development that we already dragged the two stupid aliens through in the first game, purely because people wanted to have them as selectable party members.

Just to be safe, I'll reiterate from my first post that I really have no problem with s/s romance options being available in ME3 (hell, I only pursue romance options in ME to see how they change the game), I just want them to be held to the same standard of quality that (most) Bioware writing is known for. Making all the characters magically bisexual so you can have an intergalatic sexcapade is the direct opposite of that.

Modifié par Geth001, 02 août 2010 - 08:04 .

[catabuca]

alienatedflea wrote...

*thumbs down* because its gonna change the game,,,if you say it wont, then explain to me how it wont...if you add or remove something from the orginal game then you are changing the game...thats how im using change...my definition...so with this change...why do you people want to change a game thats good already? :-/

Well heavens to Betsy, I'd say all of a sudden letting Tali and Garrus be romancable in ME2 changed the game a heck of a lot. I can't talk to my kid sister Tali anymore without her getting all stupid and giggly and wanting to sacrifice her health for some jiggy action. And I don't want that innuendo dialogue option there every time I go speak with Garrus. He's my bud.

So are you complaining that BW changed the game between 1 and 2 by including those romances? Are you? Maybe not, because they're not gay.

Look. How would it change your playthrough? No one's going to sit by your computer/console with a gun to your head saying "f*** Kaidan, do it, do it now".

Choice = a choice to do, a choice not to do. Currently, there is no choice.

[catabuca]

JockBuster wrote...

Quoting Jack, "grow the F*** up!" (censored by BW)

http://ggeek.net/en/...ss-effect-2008/
Scenario #5: if you’re a gay gamer, then you’re pretty much screwed, but that’s nothing new. You’ll play as male Shepard because he looks like the Dutch model Mark Vanderloo, he’s awfully handsome and you want to identify with him… And ogle him for 20 [60-90+ or 1,800+ in my case] hours. Of course, your Shepard won’t be really interested in Ashley, so you’ll chase her away immediately, you’ll take cold hard cash from the asari escort, you simply don’t trust Liara T’Soni because you know her family history, so all you can do is drag Kaidan Alenko with you to all the missions, talk to him every chance you get, get to know his history, heroically save his life, and in return, he’ll tell you that he has the hots for Liara. Dear developers, thanks for nothing.
It’s usually the female players who get the rough end and who get discriminated by the video game industry, because most of the games of this genre are targeted towards your average gamer who’s in his late twenties or early thirties, and male (with the exception of “girl” games, featuring what the industry thinks girls want – strategies, simulations, lovely things, ponies, etc). A female player would hardly identify with a huge guy who seduces women and waves his enormous gun around. Gay gamers have a slight advantage here, because they can and want to identify with the aforementioned type, and from time to time they get thrown a bone in the form of video game man-love, but you can count those games using fingers of a sawmill worker’s hand.
I hope with ME3 that it IS possible for a MaleShep/FemShep to finally have a  with Kaidan/Ash. The flags are already THERE (and the dialogue, but blocked); ME1 MaleShep saves Kaidan (FemShep saves Ash), Liara left out; NO LI in ME2 (stays celibate), ME2 was a rough reunion on Horizion, but after destroying the collectors Kaidan/Ash (& Anderson/council) realize that Shep WAS doing the right thing all along. [My Shep blows up the base, Miranda resigns, and Shep gives TIM the Finger!] Playing as FemShep female impersonator is not really my thing, but then I do get to renegade Kaiden & seduce him (best dialogue of all choices). 

So it remains unclear, since the game is already rated M and includes lesbionics, why male Shepard can’t enter a relationship with Alenko, when Jade Empire had a similar option. We can only hope that people in charge will find the balls to allow male Shepard to find comfort and support in a man’s firm embrace in the following episodes of the Mass Effect trilogy.
Am I going to buy ME3 yes, but NOT pre-order; same for the Prima "guide" given all the WRONG info in the ME2 guide (ME1 is great). Old Navy term, "ANY port in a storm."
Shepard has the biggest PAIR in the universe (Grunt's Quad is bigger), grow a pair BW & EA.

noun tril·ogy (tril′ə jē)
a set of three related plays, novels, etc. which together form an extended, unified work, though each has its own unity

QFT.

[Nordic Einar]

Geth001 wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...

Geth001 wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Uhm...well...So, you don't approve?

Not in the slightest. And as far as I can tell, your only argument for doing this (or at least, your only argument against my points) is "because other things were insanely unlikely coincidences, throwing in a few more won't hurt"

To which I say: "It totally would"

Well...could you explain why?
Your post did not really state why you think it would hurt things.

I stated it in my earlier post. Basically, it boils down to there being absolutely no possible way to write your entire squad suddenly being bisexual in a remotely believeable or tasteful manner.

That is, it'll be in there for pure fanservice. The last time character writing was added for Fanservice, we were forced to drag Garrus and Tali through the exact same goodamn character development that we already dragged the two stupid aliens through in the first game, purely because people wanted to have them as selectable party members.

Just to be safe, I'll reiterate from my first post that I really have no problem with s/s romance options being available in ME3 (hell, I only pursue romance options in ME to see how they change the game), I just want them to be held to the same standard of quality that (most) Bioware writing is known for. Making all the characters magically bisexual so you can have an intergalatic sexcapade is the direct opposite of that.

Well, it's a good thing that the vast majority of people here aren't asking for the entire squad to be open for SS Romances. In fact, I believe the OP is pretty clear that we'd be content with at least one character for both genders - a fact several people have reiterated in your time here.

Stop arguing with a few of us as if you're arguing with all of us - most of us don't want everyone to go bisexual. We want at most 2 per gender, and will be content with 1. We just can't agree on whether we want a new character, or our personal favorites opened up to us.

[ScotGaymer]

Personally id like to think by the time of the Mass Effect universe that Earth/Humanity had outgrown this how label/judgement thing about peoples sexuality and to a lesser extent "race".

I think that the crew and squad shoulda been a little more representative of the demographics of society at large; so that if the current school of thought about it is correct and that it holds out until the time period in Mass Effect then most people should actually be bisexual.
The current belief as I have stated previously from various studies and the like that around 15 to 20 percent of the population is at the "gay" end of the sexuality spectrum and around the same (perhaps a little more up to around 25%) of people are at the "straight" end of the spectrum with "everyone else" falling somewhere in between. Meaning around 55 to 65 percent of people are "bisexual".
We are moving more and more towards a more accepting and tolerant society on most levels as the years pass; leaving behind archaic and outdated concepts such as genetic quirks that people can not help being considered "a sin" or "Punishment from god for the sins of others".
And as I said by the time of Mass Effect where we live in a universe of near infinite diversity as in ME then I would like to think we would be so far beyond those concepts that it wouldnt be funny.

As such I had thought that ideally the characters should have been...

ME2 it should be something like this IMO:
Miranda "I Am Practically Perfect In Every Way" Lawson is straight.
Jacob "I Am The Priiizzee" Taylor is straight.
Mordin Solus is straight and not into humans.
Samara is bisexual according to human conventions but too old for all that stuff.
Tali should be bisexual given she seems to "love" Shepard no matter what. Though perhaps she should be excluded for the same reasons I exclude Garrus.
Jack should be bisexual because lets face it she SCREAMS it. (not to mention she also admits she has slept with women in the past as well.)
Garrus should be straight and NOT INTO HUMANS! (Not to mention the little fact that Turian and Human biology is incompatible and sleeping with one might kill him or make him seriously ill, why would he even entertain the thought? Or even have the thought in the first place?)
Thane "sensitive murderer" Krios is the male who has the character/past to be bisexual without it being a big shock.
Grunt again is straight and into his own species.
Zaeed is straight. nuff said.
Kasumi is straight also. Again nuff said.
And finally Legion should most definately NEVER be romancable given he is an ASEXUAL ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

For ME1 characters:
Ashley should be left straight, she is too right wing and religious to be bi or gay.
Kaidan is flirtatious with any sex; a clear sign he should be/could be bisexual.
Liara is also bisexual by human standards.
Wrex is straight and a Krogan lover.
Garrus again is straight and INTO HIS OWN SPECIES.
Tali is much too young to be thinking about sex yet.

So that means we should also probably have one totally lesbian character and one purely gay male character as well. Of course this is the "ideal" that id have liked Bioware to have in the games if they had been brave enough to do it.
As someone else I would be content with everything else staying status quo and just having one gay male chracter and one decent lesbian romance.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 02 août 2010 - 06:11 .

[Siansonea]

catabuca wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...
*snipped*

Well heavens to Betsy, I'd say all of a sudden letting Tali and Garrus be romancable in ME2 changed the game a heck of a lot. I can't talk to my kid sister Tali anymore without her getting all stupid and giggly and wanting to sacrifice her health for some jiggy action. And I don't want that innuendo dialogue option there every time I go speak with Garrus. He's my bud.

So are you complaining that BW changed the game between 1 and 2 by including those romances? Are you? Maybe not, because they're not gay.

Look. How would it change your playthrough? No one's going to sit by your computer/console with a gun to your head saying "f*** Kaidan, do it, do it now".

Choice = a choice to do, a choice not to do. Currently, there is no choice.

I totally agree with you, but that kid will just respond with another response that completely ignores your point. We're wasting our breath trying to get him to see reason. <_<