9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, youth.

Stop bashing young people. I´m 18 and I´m still in favor of gay romances......

Well, youth rarely is a simple function of chronological age. I know some very young minds in very old bodies, and vice versa. Perhaps the better term is 'immaturity', but it just doesn't have the same ring to it. It doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

[Tirigon]

MrDudley wrote...

In the future humans would be more Salarian in regards to sex. With improved science, medicine, and man achieving greater control and manipulation of nature, his and her lifespans will increase. In the future, long lifespans and decreased libido are the most likely scenario. Why mate as often when humans would live 120-200 years on a regular basis? Human "instincts" would change.

A eugenics movement wouldn't tolerate homosexuality either. With futuristic cybernetics, microchips, bioengineering... all human habits and behavior could be "modified."

With increased scientific knowledge and the like, humans would become more "efficient" and "machine like."

What is accepted now by certain elements of society may not be accepted far in the future.

You´re wrong. If your scenario is true (what I don´t think, btw, too many conservative idiots standing in its way) it would lead to MORE tolerance towards homosexuality, because the reason homosexuality is considered perverted by some is in fact that it does not allow procreation. If, as you think, the procreational aspect of sex is less important in the future, this will mean the "Bad" thing about homosexuality - no children - is no longer bad, maybe even desirable, thus leading to more tolerance towards it.

The series as a whole is targeted at nerdy straight nerds.  If Bioware moves into the realm of activism for the gay community it's going to make the series "jump the shark."

Not all nerds are straight. In fact, being straight and being a nerd sort of exclude each other.

[Lieutenant Flashlight]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, youth.

Stop bashing young people. I´m 18 and I´m still in favor of gay romances......

I have to add to this.  I'm only sixteen and I support this completely.  Just don't assume everyone is in the same mindset because of their age.  Age is somewhat of a factor, but i believe it's our surroundings to be the most influential.


I've watched this thread for a while and I have to say I would like this option.  It adds more depth to the game in my opinion.  I will also feel like my Shepards story is more complete.

[zvbxrpl]

MrDudley wrote...

In the future humans would be more Salarian in regards to sex. With improved science, medicine, and man achieving greater control and manipulation of nature, his and her lifespans will increase. In the future, long lifespans and decreased libido are the most likely scenario. Why mate as often when humans would live 120-200 years on a regular basis? Human "instincts" would change.

A eugenics movement wouldn't tolerate homosexuality either. With futuristic cybernetics, microchips, bioengineering... all human habits and behavior could be "modified."

With increased scientific knowledge and the like, humans would become more "efficient" and "machine like."

What is accepted now by certain elements of society may not be accepted far in the future.

My good man, you are making one big, big, mistake.  And that is to assume that people would ever want to modify our libidos for some kind of transhuman future.  The big trend, societally, has been the increasing acceptance of sex as for pleasure and pleasure alone.  If anything, barring some sort of neo-Victorianism throwing a wrench in the works (just like the original Victorianism did), in the 2100s, casual sex, of all sorts, will probably be more, not less ordinary.

[Ziggy]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I dont imagine Ashley to be gay or bi - though she might be - I just dont see it. One a gay person realises they are gay and accepts it, they tend to kind of fall away from these sorts of things but Ashley hasnt at all. Shes still fairly right wing conservative. Dont know if she is part of a church but we do know she is "religious".



Thirdly, I am not saying for certain that there is NO WAY Ashley could be a lesbian or bi. I am just saying given she is a "written character" in a game that homosexuality or bisexuality doesnt really seem to "fit" with the person she is, or with her backstory.

I disagree completely. There are many bi/homosexual people who are religious and many straight religious people who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. Especially, I imagine, in the ME universe where religion would have undergone massive changes to accommodate aliens etc.

Also, particularly where bi people are concerned, often the only reliable indicator is who they flirt with - otherwise you really can't tell.

This also fits in much better with the statistics you stated earlier about the majority of people being bi to some degree.

[MrDudley]

The 21st century isn't that advanced. Only a small percentage of the world lives in the affluent areas of the first world.

Casual sex has achieved greater acceptance in modern times in last century but its not because of scientific progress or greater human advancement. It's a change in values and culture spearheaded by the preferences of the social elite. Casual sex has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Promiscuity has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Homosexuality was accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations.  The change in the public perception of casual sex doesn't really matter.  It's always happened... it's either taboo or it's not.  I'm talking about the biological sex drive.

In the animal kingdom, animals that are long lived and at the top of the food chain don't have the drive to reproduce as often as animals at the bottom of the food chain.

Science may allow man to live for centuries and at the top of the food chain with extremely low infant mortality rates.

If man get to the point where it can engineer near immortality, there is going to be an ideal. In that eugenicist ideal, sex will be seen for its importance in providing human beings a diverse gene pool which will allow the species a greater chance of survival to threats to the species.... like diseases.

I kind of funny that in Mass Effect, Salarians don't have a hormonally driven sex drive when they are the most short lived sentient race and the Asari who don't even need physical contact to reproduce are very "sexual." (Asari just clone themselves).


Close your eyes.  Forget you are a 21st century westerner.  You are neither conservative or liberals.  You are a 28th century geneticist.  Top of your field.  Humans are living on 150-300 years on average.  You've unraveled the mysteries of DNA.  You can design life at will.   You see the human body as nothing more than a machine.  Human emotions have long died in your cold, genetically engineered body.   Your IQ is over 300. 

You are in charge of the human alliances genome initiative.  It's your job to get the human race closer to perfection.  Love and such chemically induced illusions of the mind have all but been bred out of you. 

Would you make all your test tubes babies straight?  Yes. You see humans as machines.  Sex is a means to an end, nothing more.  

Modifié par MrDudley, 04 août 2010 - 12:59 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

ill support this (i believe in equal right for gays and wish people would sodding stop complaining about them marrying)

but i likely won't do anything about this in particular.

sorry.

[Whatever42]

MrDudley wrote...

The 21st century isn't that advanced. Only a small percentage of the world lives in the affluent areas of the first world.

Casual sex has achieved greater acceptance in modern times in last century but its not because of scientific progress or greater human advancement. It's a change in values and culture spearheaded by the preferences of the social elite. Casual sex has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Promiscuity has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Homosexuality was accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations.  The change in the public perception of casual sex doesn't really matter.  It's always happened... it's either taboo or it's not.  I'm talking about the biological sex drive.

In the animal kingdom, animals that are long lived and at the top of the food chain don't have the drive to reproduce as often as animals at the bottom of the food chain.

Science may allow man to live for centuries and at the top of the food chain with extremely low infant mortality rates.

If man get to the point where it can engineer near immortality, there is going to be an ideal. In that eugenicist ideal, sex will be seen for its importance in providing human beings a diverse gene pool which will allow the species a greater chance of survival to threats to the species.... like diseases.

I kind of funny that in Mass Effect, Salarians don't have a hormonally driven sex drive when they are the most short lived sentient race and the Asari who don't even need physical contact to reproduce are very "sexual." (Asari just clone themselves).


Close your eyes.  Forget you are a 21st century westerner.  You are neither conservative or liberals.  You are a 28th century geneticist.  Top of your field.  Humans are living on 150-300 years on average.  You've unraveled the mysteries of DNA.  You can design life at will.   You see the human body as nothing more than a machine.  Human emotions have long died in your cold, genetically engineered body.   Your IQ is over 300. 

You are in charge of the human alliances genome initiative.  It's your job to get the human race closer to perfection.  Love and such chemically induced illusions of the mind have all but been bred out of you. 

Would you make all your test tubes babies straight?  Yes. You see humans as machines.  Sex is a means to an end, nothing more.  

Nah. Procreation happens in a lab. Sex is entirely recreational, although it seldom happens with real people because virtual environments are indistinguishable from real environments and in those environments, people can be anything they please.

[MrDudley]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

MrDudley wrote...

The 21st century isn't that advanced. Only a small percentage of the world lives in the affluent areas of the first world.

Casual sex has achieved greater acceptance in modern times in last century but its not because of scientific progress or greater human advancement. It's a change in values and culture spearheaded by the preferences of the social elite. Casual sex has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Promiscuity has been accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations. Homosexuality was accepted in primitive societies and ancient civilizations.  The change in the public perception of casual sex doesn't really matter.  It's always happened... it's either taboo or it's not.  I'm talking about the biological sex drive.

In the animal kingdom, animals that are long lived and at the top of the food chain don't have the drive to reproduce as often as animals at the bottom of the food chain.

Science may allow man to live for centuries and at the top of the food chain with extremely low infant mortality rates.

If man get to the point where it can engineer near immortality, there is going to be an ideal. In that eugenicist ideal, sex will be seen for its importance in providing human beings a diverse gene pool which will allow the species a greater chance of survival to threats to the species.... like diseases.

I kind of funny that in Mass Effect, Salarians don't have a hormonally driven sex drive when they are the most short lived sentient race and the Asari who don't even need physical contact to reproduce are very "sexual." (Asari just clone themselves).


Close your eyes.  Forget you are a 21st century westerner.  You are neither conservative or liberals.  You are a 28th century geneticist.  Top of your field.  Humans are living on 150-300 years on average.  You've unraveled the mysteries of DNA.  You can design life at will.   You see the human body as nothing more than a machine.  Human emotions have long died in your cold, genetically engineered body.   Your IQ is over 300. 

You are in charge of the human alliances genome initiative.  It's your job to get the human race closer to perfection.  Love and such chemically induced illusions of the mind have all but been bred out of you. 

Would you make all your test tubes babies straight?  Yes. You see humans as machines.  Sex is a means to an end, nothing more.  

Nah. Procreation happens in a lab. Sex is entirely recreational, although it seldom happens with real people because virtual environments are indistinguishable from real environments and in those environments, people can be anything they please.

Pleasures of the flesh are such a primitive thing.  You're basically a Vulcan.  Species still copulates in order to maintain a natural method of reproduction in case of emergency.  

Modifié par MrDudley, 04 août 2010 - 01:17 .

[Whatever42]

MrDudley wrote...

Pleasures of the flesh are such a primitive thing.  You're basically a Vulcan.  

hrm... so pleasures of the flesh are pleasurable so we'll deliberately strip sex drive out of our DNA? Nah. If anything, we'll engineer viagra straight into our bloodstream. 

You'll see. In 600 years, I am so going to "I told you so!"

[FataliTensei]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

ill support this (i believe in equal right for gays and wish people would sodding stop complaining about them marrying)
but i likely won't do anything about this in particular.
sorry.

Just saying you support it is really all you can do

[Nordic Einar]

Right, Mr. Dudley, because there are no drugs or alcohol or smoking in the ME universe. No video games, no entertainment. Anything that doesn't have an immediate biological advantage would just be cut out.



Your argument is ridiculous, and I highly doubt, after the horrors of the holocaust, eugenics will ever have a clear hold in our society.

[Ziggy]

MrDudley wrote...
Would you make all your test tubes babies straight?  Yes. You see humans as machines.  Sex is a means to an end, nothing more.  

Apparently science is getting to the point were men are no longer needed to make babies.
Therefore, I think men will die out and the future will be one of heavy to industrial strength lesbianism.

(as, according to Stephen Fry on QI, was the case 150 thousand years ago, so it would make for very satifying symmetry )

Modifié par Em23, 04 août 2010 - 04:31 .

[PsyrenY]

To paraphrase Mordin: "Diversity is what makes the galaxy great."



Eugenics can take a flying leap.

[zvbxrpl]

Uhh, Dudley, the more you talk about the supposed future, the less it sounds like the ME-verse.



I will admit that I was talking basically about the developed world when I said "society." My bad. I'll take some spankings from my soc/anthro major friends when I get back to college. Hell, if I was personal friends with any internet mods, I'd let em get a few hits in for my sidetracking a thread.



Let's all talk about same-sex romances in ME. I support 'em. Not because of any grand struggle for gay rights (though, any mainstream or mainstream-ish visibility of LGBT characters is good for acceptance), but simply because it's been precedent since at least Jade Empire, even if we don't count KotOR. Moreover, part of the fun of any RPG is to put yourself in the character's shoes. When it comes to romantic subplots, that means having a character of your gender romance somebody you'd actually go for, or at least that your persona would. And, trust me, there's quite a few gay and bi gamers. One of them was my roommate two years ago.

[Grabtharr]

I'm by no means a very vocal member of this community, but this movement has my support nonetheless, for many of the reasons previously iterated; BioWare's precedent for it, it adding further content to an excellent game, etc. Keep fighting for the love.

[deleterguy]

I don't like gays, don't put it in.

[PWENER]

I don't like the idea only because I don't want Jacob or Kaiden hitting on me in ME3.



Stupid Jacob, so avarage and bland. He must be the last interesting character in the ME universe.

Refund guy is better then him, WAY better. Totally wrong as how he was depicted in ME galaxy.

[PWENER]

Em23 wrote...

MrDudley wrote...
Would you make all your test tubes babies straight?  Yes. You see humans as machines.  Sex is a means to an end, nothing more.  

Apparently science is getting to the point were men are no longer needed to make babies.
Therefore, I think men will die out and the future will be one of heavy to industrial strength lesbianism.

(as, according to Stephen Fry on QI, was the case 150 thousand years ago, so it would make for very satifying symmetry )

Where the hell are you gonna get sperm?

ooh, backfired.

And before you say it, cloning stops working after a few generations. Cell degeneration and all that.

Modifié par PWENER, 04 août 2010 - 08:25 .

[Wittand25]

PWENER wrote...

I don't like the idea only because I don't want Jacob or Kaiden hitting on me in ME3.

Stupid Jacob, so avarage and bland. He must be the last interesting character in the ME universe.
Refund guy is better then him, WAY better. Totally wrong as how he was depicted in ME galaxy.

If they do just say no like you say to any unwanted romance option. I just hope that for ME3 they take a look how their colleges did DA:O not only in variation of options, but also that half of the NPC´s don't simply stop talking to you because you have the wrong genitals/refuse to have sex with them.

[Kronner]

Is it really worth it? What would it add to the game? It would backfire anyways, even if BioWare put it in, there would be people who would claim "this is not the gay I wanted; this is not the correct kind of gay etc"

I think money/recources can be better spent elsewhere.

Personally, I do not care if it is in or not. I would not pursue gay romances though.

[Wittand25]

People always complain, so worrying that people will not be satisfied with the romance-able NPC and/or the romance is pointless (as long as it is a fully developed romance and not a second grate fling like Kelly) and should not influence Bioware´s decision on that topic because you will find people complaining about every game feature and the only way to listen to all those complains would be to not making games at all.

That money/resources can be spend better elsewhere is also a universal truth for every game feature. Name two game features and I will show you a post here on the forum that will say it would have been better to scrap A and improve B and and one that says the opposite.



To address your first question: Many players do indeed think that including homosexual romances for both a male and a female Shepard would indeed worth it. The reasons for this varies and depends on the player in question and can be, but are not limited to: better identification with Shepard, more variations to role-play, a sense of social fairness considering both games had f/f. content.

[Super ._. Shepard]

why not but im not gay there r gay people out their so let their be same sex romance

[Kronner]

Wittand25 wrote...

People always complain, so worrying that people will not be satisfied with the romance-able NPC and/or the romance is pointless (as long as it is a fully developed romance and not a second grate fling like Kelly) and should not influence Bioware´s decision on that topic because you will find people complaining about every game feature and the only way to listen to all those complains would be to not making games at all.
That money/resources can be spend better elsewhere is also a universal truth for every game feature. Name two game features and I will show you a post here on the forum that will say it would have been better to scrap A and improve B and and one that says the opposite.

To address your first question: Many players do indeed think that including homosexual romances for both a male and a female Shepard would indeed worth it. The reasons for this varies and depends on the player in question and can be, but are not limited to: better identification with Shepard, more variations to role-play, a sense of social fairness considering both games had f/f. content.

Point is, how many people actually care about that? I mean, not just on this forum, which represents only a drop in a sea of fans. What I ment by spending resources, why add gay romance dialogue/animations/characters when you can add extra party banter, more dialogue with Joker/EDI/non-romance characters for the same cost. How many people would prefer that over gay romances? I know I would. Ideally BioWare will add a bit of everything :)Though I think there will not be any gay romances considering it is a third game and there was not even hint about gay romances so far, BW will already have lots of work with current romances - 9 possible romances I think, add the conflicts and there will be plenty of romance content already. I just hope it does not turn into the Sims in Space.
As for F/F, that is not true. Asari are not females and the thing with Kelly is not a romance.

Modifié par Kronner, 04 août 2010 - 09:46 .

[ElitePinecone]

Kronner wrote...

Though I think there will not be any gay romances considering it is a third game and there was not even hint about gay romances so far, BW will already have lots of work with current romances - 9 possible romances I think, add the conflicts and there will be plenty of romance content already. 

Just dropping in quickly to point out that there is no requirement that Shepard has a romance going into ME3. Like many players (myself included), Shepard may not have romanced anybody through ME/ME2. Or, equally as likely, Shepard's romance option may have disappeared during the events of either game (for spoiler reasons I won't say more). The fact that the number of surviving squadmembers after ME/ME2 varies so widely (from a minimum of 4 to a maximum of 15, if we include DLC and all possible squaddies) makes me believe that there will be more characters introduced in the third game.

More characters means more potential for implementing same-sex romances. No guarentees, but at least an opportunity.