9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

Sajon1 wrote...

As long as the dialog options are totally clear I would be ok with it. I dont want to choose a response that says "Your a good guy Jacob" and next thing I know Sheps all up in his face getting all flirty and stuff. That would mess with my head for sure.

Trust me Sajon1 I know how you feel.  My femsheps don't even talk to Jacob, excepting only his loyalty mission because there is no way to talk to him without that first line sounding like a total come on!

[Bookman230]

The Vanderloo is a homophobe doesn't make sense, seeing as they're were voiced homosexual lines from Veer for Thane and Kaidan, so they isn't it.

[Magnus_The_Red]

I heard a similar rumour about Liara's VA. Of course common snese tells me that is a load of crap.

I meen if you are gonna do a voice for an alien that can mate with any gender... well... I would be weird NOT to have any s/s dialogue.O_o

[Siansonea]

"Vanderloo is a homophobe" as an argument? Have we really reached that point?



Vanderloo has no say as to how his image is used, he was paid his money and he signed a release. Furthermore, he's a male MODEL. He would not be a working male model if he were homophobic. There are a fair number of homosexual males in the fashion industry, or does no one else watch "America's Next Top Model"?



And further-furthermore, unless there is some proof that he IS a homophobe, we should give him the benefit of the doubt. "Links/photos or it didn't happen", as it were.

[Poaches]

I really don't see how "X is a homophobe" is a valid argument at all. Its between EA and BW who ultimately decides the content.

[ElitePinecone]

Deviija wrote...

 It is important to see everyone lending support and voice, to show that this is not simply a case of 'gay people want some LIs,' but 'people support having this kind of LI.'  One's RL sexuality does not have anything to do with what type of characters you roleplay and whom they forge a story with.  It is about choices -- and no one is forced to participate or see any content that they do not purposely pursue.

I totally agree with this statement. Most likely the vast majority of ME2 players never pursued all 6 possible romances, or played all 6 possible classes, or took every potential combination of paragon/renegade choices. The same is probably true for the original Mass Effect. But I challenge anybody to seriously argue that a lack of choice in role playing games is a good thing - or that anybody would actually be happy with fewer choices in either of these two games. Games like the Mass Effect series are defined by their interactivity, branching storylines and complex narratives (including romances) - without which they'd be glorified movies with shooting elements. 

[Ziggy]

Nordic Einar wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Magnus_The_Red wrote...
I'm a straigh man but I fully support the cause for s/s conent.^.^

Not trying to be offensive, but I find it funny how you and some other tolerant people need to express their on straightness when stating their support

Funny, I'm pretty sure having "Straight Allies" is a hugely successful strategy when it comes to anything related to equalizing the LGBT minority. By acknowledging that you don't have to be gay to want this, it opens the door for more straights to support it.

It's no different then myself being a feminist - I'm not broadly declaring the fact that I'm male because I'm afraid people might think I'm "totally a chick" for supporting feminism. I'm declaring I'm male because it's important to see that there are, gasp, male feminists.

It's one thing to fight for yourself, it's another to fight for a principle.
I have a lot of respect for that.

[Juls1616]

I support this thread!

[catabuca]

Nordic Einar wrote...
Funny, I'm pretty sure having "Straight Allies" is a hugely successful strategy when it comes to anything related to equalizing the LGBT minority. By acknowledging that you don't have to be gay to want this, it opens the door for more straights to support it.

It's no different then myself being a feminist - I'm not broadly declaring the fact that I'm male because I'm afraid people might think I'm "totally a chick" for supporting feminism. I'm declaring I'm male because it's important to see that there are, gasp, male feminists.

You, sir, are awesome. My husband is a feminist. He's also (obv.) straight and supports m/m for Mass Effect. The more diverse the support the better.

[catabuca]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Deviija wrote...

 It is important to see everyone lending support and voice, to show that this is not simply a case of 'gay people want some LIs,' but 'people support having this kind of LI.'  One's RL sexuality does not have anything to do with what type of characters you roleplay and whom they forge a story with.  It is about choices -- and no one is forced to participate or see any content that they do not purposely pursue.

I totally agree with this statement. Most likely the vast majority of ME2 players never pursued all 6 possible romances, or played all 6 possible classes, or took every potential combination of paragon/renegade choices. The same is probably true for the original Mass Effect. But I challenge anybody to seriously argue that a lack of choice in role playing games is a good thing - or that anybody would actually be happy with fewer choices in either of these two games. Games like the Mass Effect series are defined by their interactivity, branching storylines and complex narratives (including romances) - without which they'd be glorified movies with shooting elements. 

I agree entirely. The 'I wish they'd just focus on another shooting level that everyone can enjoy' argument doesn't wash, because if we follow that logic we might as well get rid of any and all optional content (e.g., the ability to choose Shep's gender; having more than 1 possible LI; etc.).

[ScotGaymer]

Just want to note that the Fight For the Love Group is the most popular group on these sites.



Out of 441 Mass Effect groups its Number One.



So really that just tells you that A LOT of people support GayManShep and LesbianFemShep and BisexualWhateverSexShep.



See? All those people cant be wrong.

[Tirigon]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

See? All those people cant be wrong.

While they aren´t wrong in this particular case, I really wouldn´t use this argument.

"Crap tastes good, billions of flies can´t be wrong!", you know?

[PsyrenY]

The popularity of an idea is still an important metric when determining its profitability.



Millions of flies shelling out $15 each for a DLC (or $60 each for a full game) add up quickly, and make the option that much more attractive at BW's planning meetings.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Wittand25 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Not to be offensive or anything, but you do realize that this never going to happen right? The same request was made for Mass Effect 2 and it never happened. I know you guys like to be optimistic, but what makes you think Bioware will add it in the third game, after they said it wouldn't be in the trilogy? And I remember hearing somewhere that the reason it wasn't in the game was because, don't quote me on this until I dig up the article, Vanderloo is a homophobe and would walk if they have his character gay/straight.

Again, I'll try to find the article where I read this, but if this is the case it will never happen. It's not that I don't support it or anything, although I wouldn't play a Shepard like that, but given the track record of the first 2 games, bioware's comments on it, and this supposed stance from Vanderloo I just don't think you guys should be setting yourselves up to be disappointed again.

But that's just my 2 cents. Carry on.

-Polite

The source you are referring to is an anonymous poster in the 4chan forums pretending to be a writer. The same source claimed that ever DLC will be free on the Cerberus network, which shows its credibility.
Vanderloo is a male model and by far not famous enough to make such demands on game content. If he really would have made such demands before signing the contract, it would have been insane of Bioware to agree and not simply switch to another model. Not to mention that making such demands would be pure poison for Mr. Vanderloo´s future carrier, and any even halfway professional would not do that.

Actually that's not the source I'm referring to. Thank you anyways. And I'm pretty sure that Bioware chose Vanderloo, just like they did other people they modeled their characters after - Leliana, Yvnonne Strahovski, etc... and the model can choose how their image is used in the game. That's the whole point of signing a contract. Has nothing to do with how famous he is, it's his image and he can lay down terms as to which Bioware would have to abide to in order to use his face. And making such demands wouldn't do anything to his future, if he has a certain opinion about things he is free to express it in his career. It's called freedom of opinion. 

-Polite

[catabuca]

Doesn't look like Vanderloo is afraid of gay subtext to me





Joking aside, if his alleged homophobia is why they pulled m/m content from ME1, then why did they continue to develop it in ME2?

[Wittand25]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Actually that's not the source I'm referring to. Thank you anyways. And I'm pretty sure that Bioware chose Vanderloo, just like they did other people they modeled their characters after - Leliana, Yvnonne Strahovski, etc... and the model can choose how their image is used in the game. That's the whole point of signing a contract. Has nothing to do with how famous he is, it's his image and he can lay down terms as to which Bioware would have to abide to in order to use his face. And making such demands wouldn't do anything to his future, if he has a certain opinion about things he is free to express it in his career. It's called freedom of opinion. 

-Polite

Sure, he could make such demands if he wished to make them. But such a demand is pure poison (apart from being ridiculous)  for the future carrier of any male model. Because nobody in their right mind would hire a model that is unwilling to perform several quite usual poses because they appear to be gay. Supermodels may be able to hurl objects at people and then turn their social service punishment into a runway show, but Vanderloo is nowhere near that league, and if he would be as troublesome nobody would hire him.
If Vanderloo would have made demands regarding the actions of a video game character modeled after his face, Bioware would have simply said "Thanks, the next one please" and have used another face, there are enough equally suiting models out there.
Please assume that everybody involved in the creation of Shepard (Meer,Vanderloo and Bioware ) has at least a minimum level of professionalism and stop believing everything you hear on the Internet (Even in the extremely unlikely case that it was truly Vanderloo´s demand you will never find a credible source for it). 

[jlb524]

catabuca wrote...

Doesn't look like Vanderloo is afraid of gay subtext to me


Joking aside, if his alleged homophobia is why they pulled m/m content from ME1, then why did they continue to develop it in ME2?

It's also extrememly easy to hack the game to achieve Vanderloo on male love scenes....you think if this was the case, they would have tried very hard to prevent that.

[ScotGaymer]

You realise that Vanderloo is probably gay anyway? LOL.



Hmm or could that be just my wishful thinking. lol.

[Wittand25]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

You realise that Vanderloo is probably gay anyway? LOL.

Hmm or could that be just my wishful thinking. lol.

Not every good looking man is gay (sadly). And I believe that he is married and has children. But discussing his private live is kinda off-topic, lets get back to the topic.

Oh, and I am late in this but I want to express my gratitude to everyone supporting this thread and also thank those not supporting this,who expressed their views in a polite manner (my upbringing prevents me from saying anything about the other kind).

[Siansonea]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Not to be offensive or anything, but you do realize that this never going to happen right? The same request was made for Mass Effect 2 and it never happened. I know you guys like to be optimistic, but what makes you think Bioware will add it in the third game, after they said it wouldn't be in the trilogy? And I remember hearing somewhere that the reason it wasn't in the game was because, don't quote me on this until I dig up the article, Vanderloo is a homophobe and would walk if they have his character gay/straight.

Again, I'll try to find the article where I read this, but if this is the case it will never happen. It's not that I don't support it or anything, although I wouldn't play a Shepard like that, but given the track record of the first 2 games, bioware's comments on it, and this supposed stance from Vanderloo I just don't think you guys should be setting yourselves up to be disappointed again.

But that's just my 2 cents. Carry on.

-Polite

The source you are referring to is an anonymous poster in the 4chan forums pretending to be a writer. The same source claimed that ever DLC will be free on the Cerberus network, which shows its credibility.
Vanderloo is a male model and by far not famous enough to make such demands on game content. If he really would have made such demands before signing the contract, it would have been insane of Bioware to agree and not simply switch to another model. Not to mention that making such demands would be pure poison for Mr. Vanderloo´s future carrier, and any even halfway professional would not do that.

Actually that's not the source I'm referring to. Thank you anyways. And I'm pretty sure that Bioware chose Vanderloo, just like they did other people they modeled their characters after - Leliana, Yvnonne Strahovski, etc... and the model can choose how their image is used in the game. That's the whole point of signing a contract. Has nothing to do with how famous he is, it's his image and he can lay down terms as to which Bioware would have to abide to in order to use his face. And making such demands wouldn't do anything to his future, if he has a certain opinion about things he is free to express it in his career. It's called freedom of opinion. 

-Polite

Sorry to disagree, but most models sign standard releases, and those releases pretty much let the client do whatever they want with the images. Most models are happy to cash their checks, they're not going to police the usage. Exposure is exposure, and Vanderloo would be a fool to make some sort of stipulation in his contract that would hinder the usage of his image. Most clients would simply say 'fine, we'll go with someone else'. Models are literally a dime a dozen. I know, I work in the advertising industry. Unless they are uber-famous, they are so grateful to have the work they'll sign over their firstborn.

And did we ever track down proof that Vanderloo ever even expressed negative opinions toward same-sex content?

[Poaches]

So... someone claims to have a valid source... but choose not to reveal them. Oh okay, ass pull.

[Elite Midget]

I always hated the double standard Bioware had in relationships between romancing the same gender. They put in Liara and Kelly Chambers as a lesbian choice but they refuse to put in a male choice for male Sheperds. If that isn't a double standard than I don't know what is.

Though even than you can't be in a real lesbian romance anyways because apparantly Liara is not a woman and Kelly just wants to get rough under the sheets.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 août 2010 - 12:58 .

[Augoeides]

I'd like to show my support for this topic and express how glad I am that this discussion has be conducted (for the most part) in a mature and open-minded way.



For me, while I am not obsessed with the in-game romances, and sex/romance scenes are definitely not an important part of my agenda, I do take particular interest in this issue. As mentioned on the first page, this is not an idea come out of the blue, not only is there a precedent for same-sex relationship in other Bioware Games but also there was some support from within Bioware at some point for those relationships.



The second factor, which left me boiling is the apparent claims from certain individuals within Bioware that there wasn't enough time despite there being enough time to throw in a plethora of heterosexual relationships and (excuse my french) the odd, token-lesbian relationships.



I'm not devaluing lesbian relationships at all, but the ones included do feel slightly 'token' because without the balance of a Male/Male relationship they feel kind of tacked on for 'a little edge' or to amuse/arouse heterosexual males. They don't even feel like they're really there for lesbian or bisexual women.That's just the vibe I get from it.



I'd also like to advocate for the option to earn trust and friendship from my fellow space companions without them falling for me. As I would say to Leliana in Dragon Age: Origins:



"I don't want to sleep with you and I'm not in love with you, I just want the Massive Cunning boost from maxing you out"

[thegreateski]

Modifié par thegreateski, 10 août 2010 - 05:46 .

[thegreateski]

Modifié par thegreateski, 10 août 2010 - 05:46 .