9243 réponses à ce sujet

[alienatedflea]

FataliTensei wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Sorry but:
"We're gay so we want a gay option for Shepard."
and
"I support this because I don't want people accusing me of being racist or homophobic."
Don't count as a good reason for Bioware to add this.

Is "I want more roleplaying options IN A ROLEPLAYING GAME" childish too and doesn´t count?

Is "I want the trilogy to remain CONSISTENT with the other two game too childish and stupid to count too?

You realize adding S/sS options would actually make the game more consistent than the other wya around right?

how do you figure? there wasn't the additional options in ME1 or 2...soo...

[Siansonea]

alienatedflea wrote...

how is this thread not childish? its like a spoiled crying baby...it wants this and that but in the end, the baby will never really be happy with what it has.  So how is this "issue" of mass effect not being anything like dragon age orgins in the sense of being gay or not, any more important than having (lets say) inventory system in me3? or mako in me3?...the reason those are more important than this issue is that they were in the game before while being gay is not (and no, being bisexual is different than being gay so that fem shep has a gay romance and male shep doesnt holds no weight) there is a reason that shep was a vague so that you the player can form him/her to what you want them to be...but being vague doesnt make shep gay, i personally do not see how shep can be gay in the connections with his/her squadmates and i kept an open mind about it...
Siansonea II you really shouldnt try to defend having more "options" in the game. You make everyone else in the thread look bad even those who make great valid points for more "options" but you cant make up anything with facts but you confuse with facts and opinions...the fact is that having more options could be a great idea but it is rather late in the trilogy to be asking for this seeing how these new "options" were not in the first two games it would be awkward that shep went gay when he should be focusing on the reapers...now if shep was gay in the first game and remained CONSISTENT then i have no problems...but you sian say that staying consistent with the whole flow of the game is stupid...thats your opinion but the ALL great stories and games were consistent throughout each series...but have to back RT on this, Sorry to those that might be offended by that

Ah, Flea, you return with another of your incomprehensible and improbably punctuated rants. Since I HAVE addressed every "point" you've supposedly made in previous posts in this very thread, rebuttals that you have consistently ignored, I will not repeat those here.

One thing I will say: don't put words in my mouth, period. If you want to quote my actual words in your response, that's fine, but when you say "but you sian say that staying consistent with the whole flow of the game is stupid.." you are misrepresenting everything I have said and I do not appreciate it. Nowhere have I stated or even intimated such a notion. You do not help your hateful cause by creating misinformation. Unless your point is the same as Recon's, merely to get this thread locked to gratify your hateful, spiteful mindset.

And that is ALL I have to say about that. Further posts by this member will be ignored completely, unless by some miracle a coherent point emerges from one of them.

Now, back to the topic, what are some other ways that BioWare might include an acknowledgement of same-sex romantic relationships within the game? Would gay/bisexual NPCs that aren't available for romance be a welcome sign of inclusion? An example I can think of is if you're on a mission and you run across a couple hiding from the bad guys, wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if occasionally you run across a same-sex couple? Or an interspecies couple?

[Siansonea]

CShep25 wrote...

What if in someone's playthrough, he is gay and didn't romance anyone in the two games because of that? Or maybe in someone's playthrough, he is bi and only happens to have romanced female partners in the two games? Shepard doesn't have to proclaim his sexuality in the opening seconds of the first game to be straight, gay or bi. Caprica dealt with this masterfully with Sam Adama. He's a tough-guy mob assassin who is the pinnacle of masculinity, and halfway through the pilot we take a look at him sitting down having breakfast with his partner, who is another man. There's no overt focus proclaiming 'OMG look, it's two guys married!" The partner could be a woman for all the camera or script was letting on. There was nothing out of the ordinary about the scene. His nephew Willie (Bill) was with them; he wasn't kicking up a fuss or held any backward beliefs about them; he was just eating breakfast with his two uncles. In fact, that little scene was the ONLY indication that Sam was gay; there was no mention either postive or negative of his sexuality before or after that scene. It was normal. And that made it great.

Because Sam isn't defined by his sexuality. And neither should Shepard.

EDIT: Similar story with Gaeta in BSG. We only find out he's bisexual in one of the web series in which he romanced a Seven on New Caprica and was involved with Ensign Hoshi. It just isn't made out to be a big deal. Why should it?

I also like the way same-sex content was handled by the writers of Battlestar Galactica and Caprica. Of course it helped that the overall writing was good, and this topic was treated as deftly as most other polarizing topics were.
BioWare could do worse than to use those shows as a template for handling the content in Mass Effect 3 or DLC.

[alienatedflea]

thedistortedchild wrote...

Colored font that warns you if you click it you're be stepping into a relationship dialogue.

I want this for ALL romances. Trying to stay loyal to my ME romance was like walking through a mine field.
How would adding SS options change the consistancy?

if it wasnt in the first 2 games of the trilogy then its not consistent with the story...Shep is not gay...maybe shep is bi-friendly (look at the fem sheps) so its not consistent...so you people say they need to fix this...well dont fix something thats not broken...how hard is that to understand? its too late to change shep and the romance options this late in the game...me3 is the last of this trilogy...now if bioware makes another mass effect-like game then tell them to add the options to please a few individuals...but shep has not been gay so far...face it...shep isnt gonna be gay now because people pout about not living your life through a game...if shep is gay then its your perpceptive that he/she is gay...but the game and storyline has shep being straight...haha now lets watch as you accuse me of being a homophobic troll...haha even though i have a solid point that no one has refuted...unless you think this is burger king and you can have your way...the question remains..do you want a great solid end to a trilogy or an inconsistent pile of junk? i dont really understand why you people are here anyways and not in dragon age origins when that game has the typical fairy elf and can have your precious s/s romances...

[PsyrenY]

Siansonea II wrote...

And that is ALL I have to say
about that. Further posts by this member will be ignored completely,
unless by some miracle a coherent point emerges from one of them.

I'm not sure even a miracle could cover it.

Siansonea II wrote...

Now, back to the topic, what are some other ways that BioWare might include an acknowledgement of same-sex romantic relationships within the game? Would gay/bisexual NPCs that aren't available for romance be a welcome sign of inclusion? An example I can think of is if you're on a mission and you run across a couple hiding from the bad guys, wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if occasionally you run across a same-sex couple? Or an interspecies couple?

I'd love some gay NPCs around. The closest we got was Mordin's noncommittal "if would try human, would try you" - which, coming from a species with next to no sex drive, was not exactly a thrilling endorsement for my loveless ManShep to hear.

Dragon Age had the hilarious armorsmith Wade and his beleagured storefront assistant Herren, and Bioware canonized them as a couple, to much rejoicing from fans. It just added that extra dimension of depth and "liveability" to Thedas that the Milky Way, for all its size, still seems to lack.

[Daewan]

alienatedflea DID NOT write...

if it wasnt in the first 2 games of the trilogy then its not consistent with the story...Shep is not straight...maybe shep is bi-friendly (look at the fem sheps) so its not consistent...so you people say they need to fix this...well dont fix something thats not broken...how hard is that to understand? its too late to change shep and the romance options this late in the game...me3 is the last of this trilogy...now if bioware makes another mass effect-like game then tell them to add the options to please a few individuals...but shep has not been straight so far...face it...shep isnt gonna be straight now because people pout about not living your life through a game...if shep is straight then its your perpceptive that he/she is straight...but the game and storyline has shep being gay...haha now lets watch as you accuse me of being a heretophobic troll...haha even though i have a solid point that no one has refuted...unless you think this is burger king and you can have your way...the question remains..do you want a great solid end to a trilogy or an inconsistent pile of junk? i dont really understand why you people are here anyways and not in dragon age origins when that game has the typical manly hero and can have your precious straight romances...

But could have.  And hey, it reads just as oddly this way.

Dear world: People change their minds.  That's not being inconsistent, that's being human.  Sometimes, you spend your entire life liking oysters and grossed out by snails.  And then, one day, you're brave enough to try the snails and discover that you actually like them.  Or, possibly, you've always liked oysters and snails, but the snail issue has never come up.  It could happen.

Kudos if you get the reference!

And please don't be offended, alienatedflea.  I'm just trying to make a point and your words were handy.

[shootist70]

alienatedflea wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Don't feed the trolls guys, especially when all they can offer are disjointed ramblings that come from their ego and not their brain.

technically we arent trolls we have a point to make but it seems like everyone else here just wants to live in their own little world...

This thread already contains dozens of pages of well thought out and intelligent discussion. For a poster to  think he can come and trash all that with one garbled post that barely contains anything even approaching a coherent argument only signifies one thing - ego can deceive some folks into thinking that their own vocal bias overrides intelligent reasoning.

[Siansonea]

yorkj86 wrote...

The interspecies relationships we've seen have been asari/non-asari, which at least partially satisfies an interesting in seeing more romantic tolerance in the game.  There's the asari with the krogan suitor in Illium, and the asari who had a human bondmate, also on Illium.  Bioware could try to pass off the lack of non-asari/non-asari pairings as a sign that such pairings are still taboo.

Gay romances should be available, but Bioware's writers shouldn't uproot certain characters with a stated sexual orientation, just to make gay romances available.  Jack, for example, states outright that she doesn't "play for the girl's team", thus shutting out FemShep.  She does have a past of experimentation, however.  If she could be written in to  bisexuality in a way that is not ham-handed, and, above all, respectful to her character, then it could make sense.

EDIT: Formatting woes.

I agree with you York. Good writing is the key to making it all work. And I think they can do it. Of course, if suddenly ALL the humans in the game are bisexual and hot for Shepard, that would be bad writing. I am against bad writing.

If Garrus and Tali can be written such that they suddenly want Shepard's human booty without completely straining credibility, then it's not really a stretch for BioWare to write some of the existing NPCs and squadmates in such a way that they can express a bisexual interest in Shepard. No one in the game has outright stated "I am exclusively heterosexual Shepard!" That leaves the door open for many of them to possibly be bisexual, even if they never explicitly stated bisexual leanings previously in the narrative. It's not like anyone was taking a poll on the Normandy as to what everybody's proclivities are.

It's not a matter of "suddenly they're gay", it's just another path previously not taken. It is not a retcon, it's an expansion of the characters. Many people seem to think that unless Kaidan (for example) is wearing pink leather chaps in ME1 that he just "couldn't be gay". I can't even begin to explain how dumb that logic is, nor the ignorance such an attitude shows. Nor can I fathom a way to express how false the entire premise is, nobody is asking for any previous character to suddenly become exclusively homosexual, yet the trolls continually act as if that's what we're all asking for. A lot of people around here don't seem to understand that being gay is not a pink film that colors everything about a person's nature. Shepard and the others in the games don't have to go around embodying early 21st Century gay stereotypes in order to be gay or bisexual. I really don't understand why this particular point is so difficult to get across. It just goes to show that people are not thinking about this subject, they are simply responding emotionally and attempting to create an argument that fits within the parameters of their subjective emotional experience.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 août 2010 - 05:46 .

[alienatedflea]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, Flea, you return with another of your incomprehensible and improbably punctuated rants. Since I HAVE addressed every "point" you've supposedly made in previous posts in this very thread, rebuttals that you have consistently ignored, I will not repeat those here.

One thing I will say: don't put words in my mouth, period. If you want to quote my actual words in your response, that's fine, but when you say "but you sian say that staying consistent with the whole flow of the game is stupid.." you are misrepresenting everything I have said and I do not appreciate it. Nowhere have I stated or even intimated such a notion. You do not help your hateful cause by creating misinformation. Unless your point is the same as Recon's, merely to get this thread locked to gratify your hateful, spiteful mindset.

And that is ALL I have to say about that. Further posts by this member will be ignored completely, unless by some miracle a coherent point emerges from one of them.

Now, back to the topic, what are some other ways that BioWare might include an acknowledgement of same-sex romantic relationships within the game? Would gay/bisexual NPCs that aren't available for romance be a welcome sign of inclusion? An example I can think of is if you're on a mission and you run across a couple hiding from the bad guys, wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if occasionally you run across a same-sex couple? Or an interspecies couple?

Tirigon wrote...

Noone is forcing anything on anyone here. Except for you and your fellow homophobes who try to force their intolerant attitude and stupidity on us.

Pssst...we all agreed to ignore this kid. He is deliberately baiting us, thinking that somehow the 'consistency' argument holds water. If consistency was the watchword, then ME2 would have been a very different game, I think we can all agree on that. Is it 'consistent' that Garrus and Tali suddenly want that Shepard love? Is Joker and Dr. Chakwas joining Cerberus 'consistent'? Not in my book.
Its actually explained why joker and the doc joined Cerberus...while being gay or not is a personal choice that has its ups and downs...you change shep if he/she is gay...i cant say how much he/she will change because shep is a vague character...but as i said before...if shep couldve been gay in ME1 (as well as couldve been straight) then i would expect the game to be CONSISTENT having those options throughout the trilogy..but because it is not consistent with the first two games...by making shep gay or not in the last installment would be inconsistent...end of story...but as you said before SIAN, you do not give a woot about consistency or even if the game is good or not...i think the game should be the best i have seen in a long time...(no pressure bioware)...and as I said before you resort back to name-calling and dismissal of all claims thats not for "fight for love" ideology just shows how weak this really is.  I think i can say i think youre a heterophobe...and sounds like by reading your post you might have a seething hatred for the straight community in this forums...all of you either resort to slander by name-calling us or discredit our very well-being.

It is however, troublesome that a game that clearly you and many other people feel passionate about is willing to trash a game to fullfil their personal wants and desires.  I do not think that if the third game in this trilogy does not appease the few in this thread that it will make or break the game.  Can't everyone agree to that? or is that another "childish" point? i do not think that is a childish point but it will probably be ignored just the same though

[PsyrenY]

Siansonea II wrote...

Many people seem to think that unless Kaidan (for example) is wearing pink leather chaps in ME1 that he just "couldn't be gay".

Ironically, he can - yay Phoenix armor!

[Siansonea]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Many people seem to think that unless Kaidan (for example) is wearing pink leather chaps in ME1 that he just "couldn't be gay".

Ironically, he can - yay Phoenix armor!

Yay Phoenix armor indeed! Who doesn't love Phoenix armor? I know I had a lighthearted playthrough where the entire squad was outfitted with Phoenix armor.

[CShep25]

I love flea. I wanna go gay for him.

Siansonea II wrote...

I agree with you York. Good writing is the key to making it all work. And I think they can do it. Of course, if suddenly ALL the humans in the game are bisexual and hot for Shepard, that would be bad writing. I am against bad writing.

Yeah, if it's done tastefully like Samara's polite rejection, it will be fine. But while the Samara relationship suggests they are capable of good writing and game mechanics, I have a feeling, if it is implemented, the romances will follow the same suit as ME1 and ME2 whereby everyone wants to jump your bones because Shepard is a Gary-Stu all the laydeez and menz can't resist. I just really want to minimise the amount of extra relationships in ME3; people have enough choice already. Expand a couple of current characters as bisexual and leave it at that. Hetero gamers are spoilt for choice and its likely we've already decided on a final lover already.

But my gut is telling me there will be a whole host of new romance options and its doubtful BW will take out some hetero relationships to include some same sex relationships since straight gamers willirrationally be up at arms about it. So I expect rather than a balancing act, BW would just add even MORE potential romances. Plus given this is the last chapter and they've said they're not concerned about any future save transfers after ME3, there's the likelihood everyone becomes romanceable for the sake of fanservice and date sims everywhere, and I vehemently reject this idea; most people wouldn't see all the content in the game which is wasted resources.

[PsyrenY]

I doubt they'll add many new romances. Each gender is already looking at 3 possibles from ME2 AND two of the three from ME1 making it to ME3, for a total of 5 romance options per gender. For comparison, Jade Empire had 2 for females and 3 for males (2 being bi), while Dragon Age had 3 per gender (2 being bi.)



With them already having so many romance options, making some of the existing ones bi will probably be easier than introducing new gay characters and potentially mucking with squad balance.

[ScotGaymer]

Is alienatedflea still posting incomprehensible rants?



Good god.

[Fanbus]

    Hrm strange, I heard at least two gay couples in Illium. The one that comes to mind is the Asari lady, Erinya with the colonist quest, the pure blood one? I don't recall. Anyhow she says how she was married to another Asari in order to remain pureblood. You can overhear more details once you complete the quest from the two asari standing near the spot. Theres at least one other spot (not sure if it was Illium or at the Afterlife club).
     Anyhow, with the inclusion of the Asari I felt that they had represented the LGBT pretty well. I'm all for supporting LGBT issues, but if it gets to the point where the Creator/Writer/Developer is getting strong armed to change his/her setting to appease an interest group, that's when my support ends. If I want real life I'll just walk outside.

To quote Stanley Woo:

Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I completely agree and support that, just wish more developers would follow that rule and not succumb to public, media, or interest group pressure.

Modifié par Fanbus, 16 août 2010 - 10:19 .

[Siansonea]

Fanbus wrote...

    Hrm strange, I heard at least two gay couples in Illium. The one that comes to mind is the Asari lady, Erinya with the colonist quest, the pure blood one? I don't recall. Anyhow she says how she was married to another Asari in order to remain pureblood. You can overhear more details once you complete the quest from the two asari standing near the spot. Theres at least one other spot (not sure if it was Illium or at the Afterlife club).
     Anyhow, with the inclusion of the Asari I felt that they had represented the LGBT pretty well. I'm all for supporting LGBT issues, but if it gets to the point where the Creator/Writer/Developer is getting strong armed to change his/her setting to appease an interest group, that's when my support ends. If I want real life I'll just walk outside.

To quote Stanley Woo:

Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

I completely agree and support that, just wish more developers would follow that rule and not succumb to public, media, or interest group pressure.

Well, if that's the case, it's safe to say that BioWare is a bunch of Talimancers.

[smudboy]

I would imagine it would be easy for characters in times of duress to express themselves personally toward each other. The progression seemed much more believable in ME1.

[Siansonea]

smudboy wrote...

I would imagine it would be easy for characters in times of duress to express themselves personally toward each other. The progression seemed much more believable in ME1.

I think most of us would agree that a return to the ME1 writing style would be a good thing. ME2 was a bit too "oh you like me? Talk to me two more times and I'll hook up with you before the endgame".

[ArchDemonXIII]

CShep25 wrote...

 I have a feeling, if it is implemented, the romances will follow the same suit as ME1 and ME2 whereby everyone wants to jump your bones because Shepard is a Gary-Stu all the laydeez and menz can't resist.

Shep's milkshake brings the whole crew to the yard.

[Fanbus]

Siansonea II wrote...

I think most of us would agree that a return to the ME1 writing style would be a good thing. ME2 was a bit too "oh you like me? Talk to me two more times and I'll hook up with you before the endgame".

You're giving them way too much credit. It was more like: "Hi, lets talk, its chapter one. Ok done talking with you, can you wait for chapter 2?" Ok Chapter 2 done. "Cool thanks, come back after the end".

Seriously it took three steps to... You know what I mean.

Hence why I propose a relationship system on a rolling scale like the sims 3, I posted an example of this here:
http://social.biowar...957/217#4464365

[CShep25]

Given Chudson has already stated ME3 will be 'more of the same' in regards to mechanics and feel, I'm betting romances will be just as shoehorned in as ME2. Which is why I support no additional romances in ME3. For the sake of damage control, stick to what we've got; Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Tali, (Kelly). Having them available for romance entitles them to a relationship status in ME3. Perhaps making one or two of those relationships non-gender specific for ME3 would go down well, but no more characters!

[FataliTensei]

CShep25 wrote...

Given Chudson has already stated ME3 will be 'more of the same' in regards to mechanics and feel, I'm betting romances will be just as shoehorned in as ME2. Which is why I support no additional romances in ME3. For the sake of damage control, stick to what we've got; Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Tali, (Kelly). Having them available for romance entitles them to a relationship status in ME3. Perhaps making one or two of those relationships non-gender specific for ME3 would go down well, but no more characters!

I really have no hope for anything in ME3 at this point.

[Tirigon]

alienatedflea wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Sorry but:
"We're gay so we want a gay option for Shepard."
and
"I support this because I don't want people accusing me of being racist or homophobic."
Don't count as a good reason for Bioware to add this.

Is "I want more roleplaying options IN A ROLEPLAYING GAME" childish too and doesn´t count?

Is "I want the trilogy to remain CONSISTENT with the other two game too childish and stupid to count too?

Yes it is because allowing same-sex romances isn´t inconsistent. Also because you´re a f*cking idiot and everythingyou say is wrong by definition.

[alienatedflea]

Tirigon wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Sorry but:
"We're gay so we want a gay option for Shepard."
and
"I support this because I don't want people accusing me of being racist or homophobic."
Don't count as a good reason for Bioware to add this.

Is "I want more roleplaying options IN A ROLEPLAYING GAME" childish too and doesn´t count?

Is "I want the trilogy to remain CONSISTENT with the other two game too childish and stupid to count too?

Yes it is because allowing same-sex romances isn´t inconsistent. Also because you´re a f*cking idiot and everythingyou say is wrong by definition.

see? you have nothing...here is some points that make this whole thread pointless in regards to the Mass Effect trilogy:
1) No one in this long thread has answered this simple question: What will this addition to ME3 bring to the table? Nothing, all of you guys/girls play this game regardless if ME2 or ME1 didnt have your precious options.  Bioware has nothing to gain from this.  By adding these options will turn other gamers that arent gay away from the stable...but yet you guys/girls will rationalize that "well you dont have to be gay" just doesnt quite cut it...if a new network like FOX got in a fit about the sex scene, what will happen to bioware if they (FOX or any other news network) find out that their games are trying to make little girls and boys gay? (if not making them gay at least exploring gays and lesiban experiences)..would you agree with me that..that would be a PR nightmare? so would the very idea of "more options" in the game be a liability to the company?
2) It is clear that no one here can explain how by having s/s romances in the last installment of the series is consistent with the first two games.  All people are doing is making pure speculation to prove other things are inconsistent..like sian arguement of having joker and the doctor in Cerberus is inconsistent with the first Mass effect which is actually explained if you watch the cut scenes in the game. 

These points are in regards to MASS EFFECT TRILOGY!!! Not DA:O! so dont justify your response of having s/s by saying well they did it in DA so i dont see why they can't do it in ME3

P.S.: i really like how you people will claim they want to hear other peoples' opinion of these "options" yet as soon as there is an opinion that is against this, you people either dismiss the claim as the poster is a troll or a homophobe...nice!! i love it...it really is a one sided arguement...so since i have a total lack of faith here...one of you people will say something about the lines of either "Do not feed the trolls guyssss" or "wow, flea, you are such a homophobe!!" as a response to this reply...its amazing really...I do not see with these defenses that Bioware can take you seriously with this s/s romance options.