9243 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Jack never states that she was a lesbian/Bi-sexual earlier in her life. She hints that she experimented with women and apparently thinks the "girls club" wasnt for her. I didn't know experimenting automatically makes you a bi-sexual. Last-minute change, past experimentation or not, Jack clearly states she isn't into women.

Girls club is not lesbian. I interpreted that more as "I really don´t like all that talking and stuff, let´s either kill things or f*ck things because that´s what I like:devil::devil:"

[PsyrenY]

Tirigon wrote...

In any case, it´s by far a better
explanation than to say Salarians (who don´t have sex drives at all) find blue humans with tentalce hair attractive when they don´t find human women attractive.....

The attributes that attract the salarian partygoer are the asari's blue skin and her extreme flexibility.
Humans don't have the former, and the latter is very rare.

If it was *just* pheremones, he wouldn't be able to put a finger on what was appealing about her, just that she was.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 25 août 2010 - 01:23 .

[shootist70]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Jack never states that she was a lesbian/Bi-sexual earlier in her life. She hints that she experimented with women and apparently thinks the "girls club" wasnt for her. I didn't know experimenting automatically makes you a bi-sexual. Last-minute change, past experimentation or not, Jack clearly states she isn't into women.

Doesn't make any difference to the point I made earlier. If you didn't want it for your character then you just wouldn't choose it .  There is no set in stone Shephard - face it, his entire personality is dependant on the player's paragon/renegade/neutral choices. Don't try to insist that we should play whatever your idea of Shephard is, and let us play our own. 

[Kriztaen]

Jack mentions at one point that she was in a threeway relationship at one point IIRC.



Now unless she somehow sexually avoided the other woman in the most evasive and impossible of ways of ways, she would technically be bi...or at least formerly bi.

[shootist70]

I think the important 'illusion' around the Asari is one woven by the developers, not the Asari themselves. For some reason certain graphic depictions seem easier to swing by the censors if they're a tad removed from being a straight 'human' depiction. Ever notice that the only NPC that constantly walks around in the buff in The Witcher is that green skinned dryad?

[ScotGaymer]

Do you never notice homophobes always start their posts with "Im not homophobic but..." and then proceed to say something really quite offensive or ignorant or outright homophobic?

I feel like asking them if they really dont see how their ignorance or rudeness could be construed as homophobic. But then I think it'll just set them off on a pointless anti gay rant that will thoroughly offend me and result in me reporting them.
Which will of course will make me feel like a school kid telling on someone to the teacher. And that offends me even more. I mean how dare these people make me report them.

The affront!

lol.

Seriously tho. I just dont get how people in this day and age still talk in a homophobic way, and yet are still thoroughly convinced that they are accepting and tolerant. Case in point Rogue Unit - earlier he posts things that come off rather homophobic and then claims to not be homophobic and says that anyone who calls him that (or a troll) is just hating on him cos he doesnt agree.
I mean honestly?

As to the discussion about the Asari. I think what they look like is what they look like; its just that I believe they are telepathic (able to make contact with other minds) and they release a phearomone to catch the attention of any potential mate when interested.
Its not mind control or wearing an illusion its just a little nudge to say "hey look at me. arent I hot?"

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 25 août 2010 - 02:00 .

[Kriztaen]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Do you never notice homophobes always start their posts with "Im not homophobic but..." and then proceed to say something really quite offensive or ignorant or outright homophobic?

Yup, but really it is their only defense/disclaimer

Of course some are not being homophobic, I can look to a more recent post around 1-2 pages back (not gonna point out the name to avoid flame starting) that "sounded" homophobic but by reading through the entire post showed the person was more "ignorant" (not using the word in an insulting way) than really homophobic. His/her post showed a general lack of knowledge on the subject of sexuality and to be honest this person seemed more like someone that was sorely misinformed then led to believe it was just the way the world is. That kind of person does not need to be called a homophobe, they should be given straight info and pointed in the right direction to get some better sense in them.

Personally I feel like the word "Homophobe" is thrown around this topic a bit lightly, yes, we have had quite a few homophobes and a few trolls, but some people were just generally against the idea for other reasons. As someone who supports this topic I am hoping maybe we could use these words a little less lightly as they lead to much negativity and in all honesty at this rate calling one of them a homophobe is almost synonymous with them calling homosexuals "****" or "queer". I am sure that is something no one here wants.

I just felt this was needed to be said. This topic was made to show support for a choice that would add a more open minded approach to the ME series. Lets try to remember that before we start taking things on a personal level. If someone is genuinely trolling or spreading negative comments for the sake of their own dislike towards the idea then please, report them and let the mods decide for themselves if the person should be silenced rather than take the bait and risk getting the topic locked.

Thank you for reading, that is all.

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Seriously tho. I just dont get how people in this day and age still talk in a homophobic way, and yet are still thoroughly convinced that they are accepting and tolerant.

You would be surprised just how bad it can be, I lived in a country where I was constantly berated for not being Catholic and treated as a second class citizen, an example would be how I was a foreigner there so when I went to college I paid double the standard fees while at the same time being constanly pushed to the back of lines while signing up for my classes in favour of the "native" students.

It was sick that I was being constantly told to move out of they way or let people behind me in line cut ahead after waiting to get a paper approved for over an hour for the guy that came in 5 minutes ago just because I was european rather than asian.

Modifié par Kriztaen, 25 août 2010 - 02:40 .

[PsyrenY]

shootist70 wrote...



I think the important 'illusion' around the Asari is one woven by the developers, not the Asari themselves. For some reason certain graphic depictions seem easier to swing by the censors if they're a tad removed from being a straight 'human' depiction. Ever notice that the only NPC that constantly walks around in the buff in The Witcher is that green skinned dryad?

That doesn't quite wash. Jack is the least dressed character in the game (and has the most explicit sex scene - lots more hip thrusting than Miranda's), and she's definitely human.

[M8DMAN]

Im all for adding a more gay/bi squadmates. But I'm against turning established characters gay.

[shootist70]

Optimystic_X wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

I think the important 'illusion' around the Asari is one woven by the developers, not the Asari themselves. For some reason certain graphic depictions seem easier to swing by the censors if they're a tad removed from being a straight 'human' depiction. Ever notice that the only NPC that constantly walks around in the buff in The Witcher is that green skinned dryad?

That doesn't quite wash. Jack is the least dressed character in the game (and has the most explicit sex scene - lots more hip thrusting than Miranda's), and she's definitely human.

I'm not really referring to straight sex and ME2's tame 'sex' scenes, but more...overt stuff like lesbian sex and full-frontal nudity.

[ArchDemonXIII]

Kriztaen wrote...

Everything i was going say, only more eloquently.

Good post.

[FataliTensei]

Kriztaen wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Do you never notice homophobes always start their posts with "Im not homophobic but..." and then proceed to say something really quite offensive or ignorant or outright homophobic?

Yup, but really it is their only defense/disclaimer

Of course some are not being homophobic, I can look to a more recent post around 1-2 pages back (not gonna point out the name to avoid flame starting) that "sounded" homophobic but by reading through the entire post showed the person was more "ignorant" (not using the word in an insulting way) than really homophobic. His/her post showed a general lack of knowledge on the subject of sexuality and to be honest this person seemed more like someone that was sorely misinformed then led to believe it was just the way the world is. That kind of person does not need to be called a homophobe, they should be given straight info and pointed in the right direction to get some better sense in them.

Personally I feel like the word "Homophobe" is thrown around this topic a bit lightly, yes, we have had quite a few homophobes and a few trolls, but some people were just generally against the idea for other reasons. As someone who supports this topic I am hoping maybe we could use these words a little less lightly as they lead to much negativity and in all honesty at this rate calling one of them a homophobe is almost synonymous with them calling homosexuals "****" or "queer". I am sure that is something no one here wants.

I just felt this was needed to be said. This topic was made to show support for a choice that would add a more open minded approach to the ME series. Lets try to remember that before we start taking things on a personal level. If someone is genuinely trolling or spreading negative comments for the sake of their own dislike towards the idea then please, report them and let the mods decide for themselves if the person should be silenced rather than take the bait and risk getting the topic locked.

Thank you for reading, that is all.

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Seriously tho. I just dont get how people in this day and age still talk in a homophobic way, and yet are still thoroughly convinced that they are accepting and tolerant.

You would be surprised just how bad it can be, I lived in a country where I was constantly berated for not being Catholic and treated as a second class citizen, an example would be how I was a foreigner there so when I went to college I paid double the standard fees while at the same time being constanly pushed to the back of lines while signing up for my classes in favour of the "native" students.

It was sick that I was being constantly told to move out of they way or let people behind me in line cut ahead after waiting to get a paper approved for over an hour for the guy that came in 5 minutes ago just because I was european rather than asian.

And some aren't truly homophobic, just more heterosexist.

[catabuca]

Tirigon wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Jack never states that she was a lesbian/Bi-sexual earlier in her life. She hints that she experimented with women and apparently thinks the "girls club" wasnt for her. I didn't know experimenting automatically makes you a bi-sexual. Last-minute change, past experimentation or not, Jack clearly states she isn't into women.

Girls club is not lesbian. I interpreted that more as "I really don´t like all that talking and stuff, let´s either kill things or f*ck things because that´s what I like:devil::devil:"

Yeah, I don't know where this 'girl's club' = lesbian thing came from. No matter how many times I've listened to that part of the conversation, every single time it appeared to me that she didn't want to be girly friends, like she's not into all that caring, sharing stuff. Seems to fit in with her disdain for Miranda when she calls her 'cheerleader' too (although I recognise that's in conjunction with her role as Cerberus leader on the ship, but still).

I've never once thought she was saying she wasn't into women.

[Siansonea]

I have a word: Homoneurotic. Less blatantly 'phobic' than Homophobic/Homophobia, and "Homoneurotica" sounds almost like something halfway fun. If someone has 'weird feelings' about homosexuality, but isn't carrying a torch and a pitchfork, I think this word works.

[Shadow_broker]

Kriztaen wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

When you walked up to talk to kadian in ME1 it screamed gay to me

You know I kinda got the same feeling...maybe it was just the lighting or the way Kaiden turns and looks at you, or Shep's slight slo-mo kinda walk in...After he told the story of his time at BAaT I figured he liked women but since he gave me that vibe i just considered him Bi from there on.

Shadow_broker wrote...

If Kadian turns out to be gay in ME3 i'll go replay ME1 and leave him on virimire

That is pretty offensive man, saying you would go back to play a 22 hour game just to kill off a character because of their sexual preference. But then who am I to judge? I left Ash because I considered her a highly unlikeable narrow-minded xenophobe...

Alright im back, Glad a few other people thought kadian chats were abit off to say the least I'm pretty glad they cut gay romances in ME1 because all of em were pushed onto you unless you were a jerk, so if i saved kadian on virimire he might end up in my cabin which would completley ruin my whole adventure
(btw if you romanced kadian in Opening ME2 scene he's wearing Phoenixx pink and white armor, That's just a faceplam moment)

And about me going back just to kill kadian, i'll have an explanation later maybe. I typed that last night and kinda forgot my reason lol

[FataliTensei]

Tirigon wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Jack never states that she was a lesbian/Bi-sexual earlier in her life. She hints that she experimented with women and apparently thinks the "girls club" wasnt for her. I didn't know experimenting automatically makes you a bi-sexual. Last-minute change, past experimentation or not, Jack clearly states she isn't into women.

Girls club is not lesbian. I interpreted that more as "I really don´t like all that talking and stuff, let´s either kill things or f*ck things because that´s what I like:devil::devil:"

Yeah when she said "the girl's club" I think she meant being all friendly because they're girls and acting like "The Girls Room".

[FataliTensei]

Shadow_broker wrote...
 i'll have an explanation later maybe. I typed that last night and kinda forgot my reason lol

Riiiiiight

[PsyrenY]

shootist70 wrote...

I'm not really referring to straight sex and ME2's tame 'sex' scenes, but more...overt stuff like lesbian sex and full-frontal nudity.

With regards to the latter, Mass Effect has never had that, so the developers wouldn't have to worry about masking anything through dehumanization. As for the former, Liara's ass-shot  and Ashley's are identical, so the fact that Ashley was human didn't seem to affect censorship any. (I consider both tamer than ME2's leap-astride-and-grind routine - via Renegade Jack and Miranda - in any event.)

I guess I'm just not seeing where the asari's supposed function as a way to slip things past the radar has any justification.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 25 août 2010 - 06:26 .

[Tirigon]

Kriztaen wrote...

You would be surprised just how bad it can be, I lived in a country where I was constantly berated for not being Catholic and treated as a second class citizen, an example would be how I was a foreigner there so when I went to college I paid double the standard fees while at the same time being constanly pushed to the back of lines while signing up for my classes in favour of the "native" students.

It was sick that I was being constantly told to move out of they way or let people behind me in line cut ahead after waiting to get a paper approved for over an hour for the guy that came in 5 minutes ago just because I was european rather than asian.

Wow. Which country was that? Compared to this Germany seems almost open-minded:pinched:

[Tirigon]

Shadow_broker wrote...

And about me going back just to kill kadian, i'll have an explanation later maybe. I typed that last night and kinda forgot my reason lol

Usually I would react with the words "Epic Fail" and a Facepalm pic, but it won´t help so... Nevermind:pinched:

[CShep25]

Guys. Can we stop using the term homophobe around here? Because as soon as you use it, you've lost the argument. You make it far too easy for them to win. Because when you brand someone a homophobe, the only tangible evidence you have to go off is what they have said, and as others have pointed out that can be explained away with ignorance or naivety. Because in truth there is no method to looking inside someone's head and seeing how they tick meaning all we've got is a couple of words written on some forum that don't tell us much about the person behind them. You can't make a valued summary of their personality from that, and the argument will always resort to 'I'm not a homophobe, you don't know me' which simply cannot be argued against rationally. But this is a forum; we shouldn't care what people are, it's how they come across that is most important, so instead of hurling the 'what you ARE' conversation at them, give them the 'what you SAID' conversation, in which you objectively tell them that what they said was homophobic, not that they are homophobic. That way the argument is based off tangible evidence in regard to their quote and it's no so easy to wriggle out of without wild accusations to derail the argument.

[shootist70]

Optimystic_X wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

I'm not really referring to straight sex and ME2's tame 'sex' scenes, but more...overt stuff like lesbian sex and full-frontal nudity.

With regards to the latter, Mass Effect has never had that, so the developers wouldn't have to worry about masking anything through dehumanization. As for the former, Liara's ass-shot  and Ashley's are identical, so the fact that Ashley was human didn't seem to affect censorship any. (I consider both tamer than ME2's leap-astride-and-grind routine - via Renegade Jack and Miranda - in any event.)

I guess I'm just not seeing where the asari's supposed function as a way to slip things past the radar has any justification.

You can't have a lesbian relationship with Ashley, in ME1, can you?

[Wittand25]

shootist70 wrote...
You can't have a lesbian relationship with Ashley, in ME1, can you?

No you could have a lesbian relationship with a not-really-woman in ME1, and a lesbian not-really-relationship with a woman in ME2. Both games avoid having a full lesbisan relationships with another woman for a female Shepard.
But I dont think that anyone at Bioware was naive enough to expect the Liara/FShep relationship to be viewed as anything but lesbian. All that Asari are not really female nonsense came afterwards when talking about the lack of m/m in ME1 and fully developed f/f and m/m relationships in ME2. During the development time of ME1 the Asari were clearly considert female, as is proven by the codex.

[shootist70]

Wittand25 wrote...

shootist70 wrote...
You can't have a lesbian relationship with Ashley, in ME1, can you?

No you could have a lesbian relationship with a not-really-woman in ME1, and a lesbian not-really-relationship with a woman in ME2. Both games avoid having a full lesbisan relationships with another woman for a female Shepard.
But I dont think that anyone at Bioware was naive enough to expect the Liara/FShep relationship to be viewed as anything but lesbian. All that Asari are not really female nonsense came afterwards when talking about the lack of m/m in ME1 and fully developed f/f and m/m relationships in ME2. During the development time of ME1 the Asari were clearly considert female, as is proven by the codex.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree. Liara is 'alien' in name, blue skin and tentacle hair only. She's basically a human female as far as the player is concerned. I just find it interesting, in a passing sort of way, how in a video game we can 'dehumanise' the female form in a symbolic manner to make certain things more acceptable than they would be ordinarily.

Not that I'm saying that's what's occuring here...more of an idle theory than anything else.

[PsyrenY]

shootist70 wrote...



You can't have a lesbian relationship with Ashley, in ME1, can you?

Originally you could (the audio files are still there, not to mention the HoYay whenever FemShep meaningfully says "Dismissed, Chief.") I agree with Wittand's reasoning behind their removal.