9243 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

The consistency argument is completely invalid. You could be strictly paragon in ME1, import your save, and be strictly renegade in ME2. The game isn't stopping you because you were a paragon originally, it lets you continue. I'm also willing to bet that someone who was strictly paragon for ME1 and ME2 can be strictly renegade for ME3. The character, in this case Shepard, is as consistent as you him/her to be. Hence "Role-Playing Game"

[Tirigon]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

The consistency argument is completely invalid. You could be strictly paragon in ME1, import your save, and be strictly renegade in ME2. The game isn't stopping you because you were a paragon originally, it lets you continue. I'm also willing to bet that someone who was strictly paragon for ME1 and ME2 can be strictly renegade for ME3. The character, in this case Shepard, is as consistent as you him/her to be. Hence "Role-Playing Game"

Not to forget that you don´t know what the Lazarus Project did to Shepard´s brain. They could have changed something so that his sexual orentation is different afterwards:wizard:

[MisterDyslexo]

Tirigon wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

The consistency argument is completely invalid. You could be strictly paragon in ME1, import your save, and be strictly renegade in ME2. The game isn't stopping you because you were a paragon originally, it lets you continue. I'm also willing to bet that someone who was strictly paragon for ME1 and ME2 can be strictly renegade for ME3. The character, in this case Shepard, is as consistent as you him/her to be. Hence "Role-Playing Game"

Not to forget that you don´t know what the Lazarus Project did to Shepard´s brain. They could have changed something so that his sexual orentation is different afterwards:wizard:

They're trying to make him fall in love with TIM so he'll obey every order Shepard gets from him! Oh noes!

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 30 août 2010 - 10:46 .

[Fanbus]

jedishephard wrote...
The larger consistency argument is the one that affects Bioware as a company. Their other two roleplaying IPs include s/s relationships; there is no good reason for why Mass Effect does not.

Furthermore, they're depicting a game about a fictional future of mankind. Predicting that there will be no homosexuality in the future raises rather unfortunate implications. (Hint: there will.)

Did you play ME1 or ME2?

Did you miss the part of the Liara romances with a female shepard, or the Kelly romances of ME2, and what not?

Or are you using hasty generlizations to push your agenda?

Heavensrun wrote...

I'm suprised and kinda proud that this thread is still around and on track.  It tells me that we've got a pretty cool, largely open minded community here.

Hold on. You're not seeing the other half of the story because no one is willing to post to the contrary without fear of retaliation from the moderators, or without fear of being pegged homophobic. Additionally the arguement has been put in a way where it cannot be counter argued. It's the same as saying "The sky if blue".

That being said, the only purpose of this thread is:

The supporters of this thread want the protagonist as well as any characters it may have a romance with to be Bi-sexual. Exactly like the Sims 3.

That is what your request should be. If I was a developer on this project that is exactly how I would see this entire thread.

That being said, some of you will come on here and say, "no that's not what we want" and proceed to redefine what's been stated on here.

I then forward this yet again:

-Female Shepard can already have Lesbian relationships with LIs in the game.
-Yeoman Kelly is open minded and will have a relationship with any gender.
-There are two (possibly more) examples of Same Sex marriages between NPCs in the game.
-There is an entire race/species that can be considered to cater to same sex pairings (the Asari) and include background (the Pure Blood) that encompasses Same Sex families, and matriarchies.

Therefore:
-The developer has done his homework including Same Sex relationships in the game.
-The developer wishes to maintain some hetero relationships as their own perogative and writers liscense.

Therefore the only purpose of this thread is a request to make all relationships in the game regardless of gender of the protagonist bisexual in a manner similar to the Sims 3. Whereby all sims can be romanced regardless of gender.

There is absolutely no counter argument to that request.

[Gibb_Garrus]

Fanbus wrote...

jedishephard wrote...
The larger consistency argument is the one that affects Bioware as a company. Their other two roleplaying IPs include s/s relationships; there is no good reason for why Mass Effect does not.

Furthermore, they're depicting a game about a fictional future of mankind. Predicting that there will be no homosexuality in the future raises rather unfortunate implications. (Hint: there will.)

Did you play ME1 or ME2?

Did you miss the part of the Liara romances with a female shepard, or the Kelly romances of ME2, and what not?

Or are you using hasty generlizations to push your agenda?

Heavensrun wrote...

I'm suprised and kinda proud that this thread is still around and on track.  It tells me that we've got a pretty cool, largely open minded community here.

Hold on. You're not seeing the other half of the story because no one is willing to post to the contrary without fear of retaliation from the moderators, or without fear of being pegged homophobic. Additionally the arguement has been put in a way where it cannot be counter argued. It's the same as saying "The sky if blue".

That being said, the only purpose of this thread is:

The supporters of this thread want the protagonist as well as any characters it may have a romance with to be Bi-sexual. Exactly like the Sims 3.

That is what your request should be. If I was a developer on this project that is exactly how I would see this entire thread.

That being said, some of you will come on here and say, "no that's not what we want" and proceed to redefine what's been stated on here.

I then forward this yet again:

-Female Shepard can already have Lesbian relationships with LIs in the game.
-Yeoman Kelly is open minded and will have a relationship with any gender.
-There are two (possibly more) examples of Same Sex marriages between NPCs in the game.
-There is an entire race/species that can be considered to cater to same sex pairings (the Asari) and include background (the Pure Blood) that encompasses Same Sex families, and matriarchies.

Therefore:
-The developer has done his homework including Same Sex relationships in the game.
-The developer wishes to maintain some hetero relationships as their own perogative and writers liscense.

Therefore the only purpose of this thread is a request to make all relationships in the game regardless of gender of the protagonist bisexual in a manner similar to the Sims 3. Whereby all sims can be romanced regardless of gender.

There is absolutely no counter argument to that request.

I support this statement.

[Wittand25]

Fanbus wrote...
That being said, the only purpose of this thread is:

The supporters of this thread want the protagonist as well as any characters it may have a romance with to be Bi-sexual. Exactly like the Sims 3.

That is what your request should be. If I was a developer on this project that is exactly how I would see this entire thread.

That being said, some of you will come on here and say, "no that's not what we want" and proceed to redefine what's been stated on here.

I then forward this yet again:

-Female Shepard can already have Lesbian relationships with LIs in the game.
-Yeoman Kelly is open minded and will have a relationship with any gender.
-There are two (possibly more) examples of Same Sex marriages between NPCs in the game.
-There is an entire race/species that can be considered to cater to same sex pairings (the Asari) and include background (the Pure Blood) that encompasses Same Sex families, and matriarchies.

Therefore:
-The developer has done his homework including Same Sex relationships in the game.
-The developer wishes to maintain some hetero relationships as their own perogative and writers liscense.

Therefore the only purpose of this thread is a request to make all relationships in the game regardless of gender of the protagonist bisexual in a manner similar to the Sims 3. Whereby all sims can be romanced regardless of gender.

There is absolutely no counter argument to that request.

You are wrong in several ways:
1.) While there are some who want every squadmate bisexual, the vast majority would be satisfied with one LI per sex who is open for a same sex relationship.
2:) There is no s/s romance in either game. Liara is not female (officially according to Mr. Hudson, I disagree with that though) and Kelly does not count as LI (no cutscene, Achievment, ...)
3.)Because the Asari are not female (see point above) there is not a single f/f couple in the game.
4.) Inclusion of f/f (and even that not fully) does little to nothing for those who want m/m content in the game.

And there are several counter valid arguments against having everybody bisexual ( or sexually undefined like the Sims truly are) and I and others have brought them up in this thread and others of its kind. Please read at least the first post of the thread, because it already shows that your assumptions are wrong.

Modifié par Wittand25, 31 août 2010 - 11:14 .

[ScotGaymer]

Fanbus wrote...

jedishephard wrote...
The larger consistency argument is the one that affects Bioware as a company. Their other two roleplaying IPs include s/s relationships; there is no good reason for why Mass Effect does not.

Furthermore, they're depicting a game about a fictional future of mankind. Predicting that there will be no homosexuality in the future raises rather unfortunate implications. (Hint: there will.)

Did you play ME1 or ME2?

Did you miss the part of the Liara romances with a female shepard, or the Kelly romances of ME2, and what not?

Or are you using hasty generlizations to push your agenda?

Heavensrun wrote...

I'm suprised and kinda proud that this thread is still around and on track.  It tells me that we've got a pretty cool, largely open minded community here.

Hold on. You're not seeing the other half of the story because no one is willing to post to the contrary without fear of retaliation from the moderators, or without fear of being pegged homophobic. Additionally the arguement has been put in a way where it cannot be counter argued. It's the same as saying "The sky if blue".

That being said, the only purpose of this thread is:

The supporters of this thread want the protagonist as well as any characters it may have a romance with to be Bi-sexual. Exactly like the Sims 3.

That is what your request should be. If I was a developer on this project that is exactly how I would see this entire thread.

That being said, some of you will come on here and say, "no that's not what we want" and proceed to redefine what's been stated on here.

I then forward this yet again:

-Female Shepard can already have Lesbian relationships with LIs in the game.
-Yeoman Kelly is open minded and will have a relationship with any gender.
-There are two (possibly more) examples of Same Sex marriages between NPCs in the game.
-There is an entire race/species that can be considered to cater to same sex pairings (the Asari) and include background (the Pure Blood) that encompasses Same Sex families, and matriarchies.

Therefore:
-The developer has done his homework including Same Sex relationships in the game.
-The developer wishes to maintain some hetero relationships as their own perogative and writers liscense.

Therefore the only purpose of this thread is a request to make all relationships in the game regardless of gender of the protagonist bisexual in a manner similar to the Sims 3. Whereby all sims can be romanced regardless of gender.

There is absolutely no counter argument to that request.

I dont understand how you have drawn that from this thread.

On the first post it explicitly states that we DONT want all the LIs to be bisexual That would be unrealistic and foolish.
As wittand25 said we just want one of each sex for ss romance. Whats so wrong with that?

Im gay; and ive been represented in every other recent Bioware game except ME. I role play as straight no problem but I would like to also role play a gay shepard where he can actually express his homosexuality instead of being forced to supress it.

No one who presented your opposition like you have would be called a troll or homophobic mate. I dont think you are. I just think you have completely misunderstood the point of this thread and misread just about all of us who support this goal. Which I think is rather silly.

I dont mind that you oppose the point. I may think your wrong but you presented your opposition in a polite, firm, and measured manner. If anyone called you homophobic at this point id call them an idiot.

[Fanbus]

I fully read the first post.

I know that the general request is for at least one LI for both genders of the same gender.

That makes the request:

You would like the Protagonist to be sexually ambigous.

Perhaps that clarifies the core request even further.

Asari being female or not is stretching things out pretty far. I've not kept up on that debate. But like I've stated in my prior response back  a while as well as the last one. Any counter-argument will be met with rebuttal. Even the argument that Asari cater to the S/S community is met with "but Asari don't count because they are not female".

So NO counter argument can be made.

In a way all I'm hearing from this post right now is "but why". Like speaking to a kid who just doesn't get the answer they want and can't stop asking "but why". Even when I stated to Simsonia that it could be that BW wishes to keep Male Shep straight for creative liscense reasons, it was met with a "but why" response.

Hence why you're not going to get any reasonable rebuttals or counter arguments since anything stated would just dig someone further into a hole they can't get out of.

[PsyrenY]

Fanbus wrote...

Even when I stated to Simsonia that it could be that BW wishes to keep Male Shep straight for creative liscense reasons, it was met with a "but why" response.

That argument fails because it could be used for any of Shep's attributes that was given to the player to control.

Under "creative license," BW could have made Shep:

- Male only
- Renegade only
- White only
- Spacer only
- War Hero Only

etc... but they didn't. So why are they allowing freedom for all those things, but not orientation?

Bioware's stance has always been "build the Shepard you want." This thread is our attempt to do just that, and take Bioware up on their offer.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 31 août 2010 - 03:32 .

[ScotGaymer]

Fanbus wrote...

I fully read the first post.

I know that the general request is for at least one LI for both genders of the same gender.

That makes the request:

You would like the Protagonist to be sexually ambigous.

Perhaps that clarifies the core request even further.

Asari being female or not is stretching things out pretty far. I've not kept up on that debate. But like I've stated in my prior response back  a while as well as the last one. Any counter-argument will be met with rebuttal. Even the argument that Asari cater to the S/S community is met with "but Asari don't count because they are not female".

So NO counter argument can be made.

In a way all I'm hearing from this post right now is "but why". Like speaking to a kid who just doesn't get the answer they want and can't stop asking "but why". Even when I stated to Simsonia that it could be that BW wishes to keep Male Shep straight for creative liscense reasons, it was met with a "but why" response.

Hence why you're not going to get any reasonable rebuttals or counter arguments since anything stated would just dig someone further into a hole they can't get out of.

I am sorry but I disagree.

The Protagonist IS already sexually ambiguous. Bioware has banged on about creating "our" Shepard however we like (within game play reason of course). The whole "oh uh yeh male shepard is straight" arguement was a bollocks cop out by the Bioware management because they didnt have a good reason not to include male/male romance for maleshepard but allow female/female romance for femaleshepard.
I dont see why I can define every aspect of Shepards personality including sexuality as a female shepard, but that option is excluded to me as a male shepard.

And considering both Casey Hudson and Ray Muzukya have been quoted in interviews and the like singling out parts of ME2 that are nearly universally reviled by forumites and reviewers alike and saying "oh we get lots of positive feedback on this" (IE Planet Scanning) you cant really trust anything they say can you?

And I dont agree that this is a "but why" response exactly.

Its more of a "the existing situation is unfair to those of my sexual orientation, and I feel sometimes given things the bioware management has said that people like me was purposely excluded from representation in the game for Bioware's fear of offending Fox News" kind of answer.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 31 août 2010 - 05:11 .

[SirMoogie]

Just commenting on a proposal mentioned earlier. Some individuals suggested a check-box for allowing same-sex relationships to be possible. I don't find this satisfying as it suggests that same-sex orientations are something to be hidden and most certainly not a part of the universe, unless you want them to be. Sometimes people develop crushes, and sometimes they attempt to pursue them. It is decent just to turn them down, as I did Tali when she mistakenly thought my committed to Liara Shepard was into her.* I don't see why same-sex relationships should be relegated to an option to be hidden, while straight relationships are privileged and the default. It smells of bias and discrimination. It makes me wonder what individuals who couldn't stand the sight of a gay character politely hitting on their straight character would do in real life in a similar situation? Hopefully the response is politely turn them down.



* - The color coding on initiating flirting would be great. I chose an option that didn't seem to reflect the romantic nature of the follow up comment.



I respect the idea that NPCs with a history of being straight should continue to be so, but would welcome new characters being introduced for people that wish to play their personalized Shepard as gay.

[MisterDyslexo]

The consistency argument is only valid if you're talking about a NPC character, and even then it doesn't hold up very well. Although some things stay the same, the characters are constantly changing. Look at Liara from ME1 to ME2. Garrus from ME1 to ME2. It could be argued that romancing Jack could make her significantly less hostile in the future. Shepard is basically a role-model for Garrus (off track, it may seem odd you could romance him being his role-model, but you do have to initiate it, and influence him to that decision to go through with it). Although it seems subtle in the game, you can change Samara's entire view on justice and what she devoted the past 400 years of her life to in just a few missions.

[Siansonea]

Fanbus wrote...
*snipped post by jedishepard*
Did you play ME1 or ME2?

Did you miss the part of the Liara romances with a female shepard, or the Kelly romances of ME2, and what not?

Or are you using hasty generlizations to push your agenda?

ME1 contained a f/f same sex romance that was as fully realized as the o/s romances, BUT, they did not allow a s/s between two humans, or an m/m romance. ME2 included only a semblance of a f/f romance, that was not as fully developed as the o/s romances. We feel this was a step backward.

We wish to expand the options in future ME content to include f/f and m/m options, both with Liara/asari and human partners.

*snipped post by Heavensrun*

Hold on. You're not seeing the other half of the story because no one is willing to post to the contrary without fear of retaliation from the moderators, or without fear of being pegged homophobic. Additionally the arguement has been put in a way where it cannot be counter argued. It's the same as saying "The sky if blue".

That being said, the only purpose of this thread is:

The supporters of this thread want the protagonist as well as any characters it may have a romance with to be Bi-sexual. Exactly like the Sims 3.

That is what your request should be. If I was a developer on this project that is exactly how I would see this entire thread.

That being said, some of you will come on here and say, "no that's not what we want" and proceed to redefine what's been stated on here.

Sims 3? I am not familiar with this game, though I suspect your intent is to draw a negative connotation/parallel with our initiative by choosing this game, rather than a game like Dragon Age, Jade Empire, etc.

The supporters of this thread do not speak with one voice, there are many variations from person to person as to what is desired. Personally, I think Shepard should have the OPTION to be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual. Currently, these options are limited to heterosexual, homosexual female, bisexual female, or asexual. And the homosexual/bisexual options for female protagonists are not on par with the heterosexual romances. I would like BioWare to address this lack of parity.

I then forward this yet again:

-Female Shepard can already have Lesbian relationships with LIs in the game.
-Yeoman Kelly is open minded and will have a relationship with any gender.
-There are two (possibly more) examples of Same Sex marriages between NPCs in the game.
-There is an entire race/species that can be considered to cater to same sex pairings (the Asari) and include background (the Pure Blood) that encompasses Same Sex families, and matriarchies.

Therefore:
-The developer has done his homework including Same Sex relationships in the game.
-The developer wishes to maintain some hetero relationships as their own perogative and writers liscense.

You draw a conclusion that expresses intent on behalf of the developer based on facts not in evidence, nor do you supply a rationale for the intent other than prerogative and writer's license. Certainly these can be used as the ultimate trump card by BioWare if they wish; the "because we said so" answer to the "why" question. However, as free persons in this society, it is our right to request a meaningful response (something beyond "because we said so") to the question: If you choose not to include the m/m and expanded f/f romance content in upcoming content, what is the basis of this decision? Like as not, we will not receive a meaningful answer, but that reality does not mean we shouldn't ask. When we perceive an inequality, we should address it, and whether they choose to take up the conversation is "their prerogative".

Therefore the only purpose of this thread is a request to make all relationships in the game regardless of gender of the protagonist bisexual in a manner similar to the Sims 3. Whereby all sims can be romanced regardless of gender.

There is absolutely no counter argument to that request.

Your premise is flawed, therefore your supposedly ironclad argument is similarly flawed. Heterosexual protagonists, as well as asexual protaganists, can still exist in the scenarios we are proposing. We wish to expand the OPTIONS of the game, not force Shepard to be bisexual in everyone's game. A Shepard who pursues no romances has no explicit sexual orientation, a Shepard who pursues opposite-sex romances in the first two games can be either heterosexual or bisexual, it is up to the player to decide. But having the option for a given Shepard to be bisexual in no way automatically commits the player to play their specific Shepard as bisexual, any more than the option for Shepard to be a male or female automatically commits the player to play Shepard as somehow being male and female simultaneously. An individual player's Shepard is based on that player's selections from the options the game provides. We merely ask that BioWare consider adding a few more options to the list.

I fully read the first post.

I know that the general request is for at least one LI for both genders of the same gender.

That makes the request:

You would like the Protagonist to be sexually ambigous.

Perhaps that clarifies the core request even further.

Asari being female or not is stretching things out pretty far. I've not kept up on that debate. But like I've stated in my prior response back  a while as well as the last one. Any counter-argument will be met with rebuttal. Even the argument that Asari cater to the S/S community is met with "but Asari don't count because they are not female".

So NO counter argument can be made.

In a way all I'm hearing from this post right now is "but why". Like speaking to a kid who just doesn't get the answer they want and can't stop asking "but why". Even when I stated to Simsonia that it could be that BW wishes to keep Male Shep straight for creative liscense reasons, it was met with a "but why" response.

Hence why you're not going to get any reasonable rebuttals or counter arguments since anything stated would just dig someone further into a hole they can't get out of.

The asari gender question is one that is still debated, and personally I don't think it is all that relevant to this topic. For my part, I think that the fact that the asari have babies makes them female. New asari don't just materialize out of thin air. Mono-gendered, "I am not exactly a woman" and other references used to cite asari's lack of femaleness are all seriously flawed arguments. Mono-gendered means ONE gender. The gender that creates new individuals of the species within the body, or provides oocytes in dual-gendered reproduction, is called FEMALE, whether we're talking about plants, animals or anything else. It is clear that the one gender the asari DO have is FEMALE. The only other genders available are male, true hermaphrodite, and neuter, none of which fits what little we know of asari. But regardless, the gender of asari does not appease those who want m/m content for Male Shepard, or a human f/f option for Female Shepard. As stated before, Kelly Chambers is a pale reflection of the other romances, not to mention a far less compelling character than the more fully developed squad mates. After all, there is no Kelly "loyalty mission" or any conversation with her outside of her station on the Normandy SR2.

As stated by others in this thread, Shepard is already ambiguous, nothing we are asking for changes that. Until you select the class you wish to play, your Shepard's class is undetermined, therefore ambiguous. Shepard's gender, appearance, background, personality, etc., are all based on player selections, prior to those selections these values are undetermined/ambiguous. Adding a couple of same-sex LIs does not change this equation in any meaningful way, other than to provide a few more options for the players who want them. These options in no way take away from the game experience of players who have no interest in them, any more than the inclusion of the MaleShep/Tali romance takes away from the game experience of people who have no interest in romancing Tali.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 31 août 2010 - 08:55 .

[Ziggy]

Our target demographic finds homosexual males scary but finds lesbianism hot. How can we get away with giving them the latter without the former?

Hmmm… I know! Lets invent a monogendered alien race that looks female, but techinically
aren’t so we can still claim that there is no homosexuality in mass effect! Genius!!


It’s an insult to everyone.

Modifié par Em23, 31 août 2010 - 11:32 .

[MisterDyslexo]

^ Amen. Too bad they valued the "target demographic" over their established fanbase. I think they realized that though

[jedishephard]

Tirigon wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

The consistency argument is completely invalid. You could be strictly paragon in ME1, import your save, and be strictly renegade in ME2. The game isn't stopping you because you were a paragon originally, it lets you continue. I'm also willing to bet that someone who was strictly paragon for ME1 and ME2 can be strictly renegade for ME3. The character, in this case Shepard, is as consistent as you him/her to be. Hence "Role-Playing Game"

Not to forget that you don´t know what the Lazarus Project did to Shepard´s brain. They could have changed something so that his sexual orentation is different afterwards:wizard:

i think it was explained that the illusive man wanted to bring back shep as he/she was...miranda even tells you if she was the illusive man then she wouldve put mods that wouldve controlled shep so he wouldnt have his free will...just saying...

[MisterDyslexo]

^ To you I say, don't you think dying would change your perspective on life and how you act? I'm not saying it made shepard gay, but it could change their mindset about how to act

[jedishephard]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Fanbus wrote...

I fully read the first post.

I know that the general request is for at least one LI for both genders of the same gender.

That makes the request:

You would like the Protagonist to be sexually ambigous.

Perhaps that clarifies the core request even further.

Asari being female or not is stretching things out pretty far. I've not kept up on that debate. But like I've stated in my prior response back  a while as well as the last one. Any counter-argument will be met with rebuttal. Even the argument that Asari cater to the S/S community is met with "but Asari don't count because they are not female".

So NO counter argument can be made.

In a way all I'm hearing from this post right now is "but why". Like speaking to a kid who just doesn't get the answer they want and can't stop asking "but why". Even when I stated to Simsonia that it could be that BW wishes to keep Male Shep straight for creative liscense reasons, it was met with a "but why" response.

Hence why you're not going to get any reasonable rebuttals or counter arguments since anything stated would just dig someone further into a hole they can't get out of.

I am sorry but I disagree.

The Protagonist IS already sexually ambiguous. Bioware has banged on about creating "our" Shepard however we like (within game play reason of course). The whole "oh uh yeh male shepard is straight" arguement was a bollocks cop out by the Bioware management because they didnt have a good reason not to include male/male romance for maleshepard but allow female/female romance for femaleshepard.
I dont see why I can define every aspect of Shepards personality including sexuality as a female shepard, but that option is excluded to me as a male shepard.

And considering both Casey Hudson and Ray Muzukya have been quoted in interviews and the like singling out parts of ME2 that are nearly universally reviled by forumites and reviewers alike and saying "oh we get lots of positive feedback on this" (IE Planet Scanning) you cant really trust anything they say can you?

And I dont agree that this is a "but why" response exactly.

Its more of a "the existing situation is unfair to those of my sexual orientation, and I feel sometimes given things the bioware management has said that people like me was purposely excluded from representation in the game for Bioware's fear of offending Fox News" kind of answer.

i am sorry but i have to ask you to explain a couple things to me fritz...
1) Why do they need a good reason? they developed the game as such in their own vision.  I still do not see why this addition is any more important than lets say having the Mako in ME3 or the old inventory system from me1 should be included in me3.  I see a lot of comparsons of other bioware games of their inclusion of S/S romances so i have to ask...why does bioware have to include s/s in all of their games? they make good games but if you dont like them then dont play it, no one is forcing you to play as a straight male or female when you want to break out of the closet and be free.   so its interesting that you say female/female romance when its not really? its really female/alien and male/alien (the asari arguement of monogender) so my questions are:
why is this issue any more important than what other people want? 
why does bioware have to include s/s in all their games?

[jedishephard]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

^ To you I say, don't you think dying would change your perspective on life and how you act? I'm not saying it made shepard gay, but it could change their mindset about how to act

I am pretty sure i would think about how i lived my life...but he didnt die a slow death...he died in minutes (not alot of time to think about things like life wouldnt you say?)

[MisterDyslexo]

jedishephard wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

^ To you I say, don't you think dying would change your perspective on life and how you act? I'm not saying it made shepard gay, but it could change their mindset about how to act

I am pretty sure i would think about how i lived my life...but he didnt die a slow death...he died in minutes (not alot of time to think about things like life wouldnt you say?)

Its not about how he died, but the fact that he died. You ever hear about how people change their ways when somebody close to them dies? Its called realization of the fragility of life. They see how life can change and they could die any moment. People tend to think about how they're leading their lives. Its a sort of spiritual awakening. Its affects people who see others die, people who are in serious accidents, those who survive near-death experiences, so why wouldn't it affect somebody who actually did die? He's easily comparable to somebody who just woke up from a coma, because apart from the actualy "dying part", neither are conscious for a very long amount of time while the world just keeps on spinning without them, and everybody keeps on living their lives. I don't mean in any way to offend you with this next statement, but I'm sure if you got in an accident, and woke up two years later to see all your friends and loved-ones move on while the world changed majorly, you'd change a little bit too

[MisterDyslexo]

jedishephard wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

why is this issue any more important than what other people want? 
why does bioware have to include s/s in all their games?

1. Its not any more important than any other, but this is certainly something that a lot of people care about. There are certainly many other changes to be done in ME3, and the people here feel that s/s romances should be one of them. I agree that spending time on s/s romances shouldn't take any special amount of time away from other necessary fields of improvement, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be improved upon.

2. Two reasons really:
A- they've done it historically. Jade Empire, Dragon Age, possibly Baulder's Gate (i can't really remember anything about Baulder's gate to be honest). The first mass effect was supposed to have too with Ashley/Kaiden, but its believed with reason that they cut it out relatively close to mass production (the unused content exists both on xbox and pc disks of the game, as well as digital downloads). they also apparently wanted to do it for mass effect 2 with tali and thane, but that also got cut.

B- Its insulting not to do it in the next mass effect game. The reason being, other than the fact it doesn't represent a people properly, is that they originally had planned for it, as stated above, but cut it out for whatever reasons. A few possible conclusions include blatant homophobia (although that seems unlikely) and fear of impact on sales. A lot of people feel its cowardly not for BW to stick to their guns about this

[Siansonea]

Wanting same-sex inclusion is not the same as wanting the Mako back, or any of the other mundane things people ask about, like inventory, armor, weapons, etc. None of those things have any social implications in the real world. It doesn’t take any courage to take a stand on the Mako vs. the Hammerhead.

And yes, I realize that this is an argument both for AND against our initiative. The natural follow-up from the opposing faction will be “why should BioWare do this if it will cause conflict for them?” Well, clearly there will be conflict regardless, they just have to decide what type of statement they wish to make with their products. And like it or not, no matter what they do, it will make a statement of some kind.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wanting same-sex inclusion is not the same as wanting the Mako back, or any of the other mundane things people ask about, like inventory, armor, weapons, etc. None of those things have any social implications in the real world. It doesn’t take any courage to take a stand on the Mako vs. the Hammerhead.

And yes, I realize that this is an argument both for AND against our initiative. The natural follow-up from the opposing faction will be “why should BioWare do this if it will cause conflict for them?” Well, clearly there will be conflict regardless, they just have to decide what type of statement they wish to make with their products. And like it or not, no matter what they do, it will make a statement of some kind.

It took forever for me to admit my inventory fetish...

At least you took that first step, now you can get help.

[FataliTensei]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wanting same-sex inclusion is not the same as wanting the Mako back, or any of the other mundane things people ask about, like inventory, armor, weapons, etc. None of those things have any social implications in the real world. It doesn’t take any courage to take a stand on the Mako vs. the Hammerhead.

And yes, I realize that this is an argument both for AND against our initiative. The natural follow-up from the opposing faction will be “why should BioWare do this if it will cause conflict for them?” Well, clearly there will be conflict regardless, they just have to decide what type of statement they wish to make with their products. And like it or not, no matter what they do, it will make a statement of some kind.

It took forever for me to admit my inventory fetish...

At least you took that first step, now you can get help.

There's nothing wrong with an inventory fetish