9243 réponses à ce sujet

[iamthespark]

The problem is that there aren't any games (other than DA - and DA does its romances way better than ME) that have a high-quality same-sex romance system and we see the potential of one here.



Bioware was so close to something here.. so close to something very exciting: healthy same-sex romances reflected in the media - shown from begining to end, played out for whoever would like to experience it.



RPGs are all about immersion and it would help if we could have the virtual relationship that we want instead of the game surrounding us with no possibilities, which is really a disappointment. If there wasn't a romance system in place and no one could romance anyone, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.



We've all seen the Maleshep/Kaiden videos and the Femshep/Ashley videos, we all know how it *could* have gone and now we're disappointed and just HOPE that Bioware notices how many of us are out here and playing this great game to include more same-sex characters in ME3.



Existing characters are easy to transition over - only an extra dialogue line would need to be stated. Perhaps Ashley would say something to the effect that she found Femshep unapproachable in the ME1, etc.

[Untamed_skies]

I'm not trying to start any flame wars or anything, but making every character open to romance I don't think would be the right way to do it. I mean every character is supposed to be unique and a individual, to make every last one of them bi is a bit exessive isn't it?

I mean Your sexuality is a big part of your personality and who you are. I being straight get a bit uncomfortable when guys hit on me. And these guys could be my friends, and do everything right, and always be there for me, and all of that, and I'm still not going to be in love with them and forcing it is uncomfortable.

On the same side of the fence, I could find a woman digs other women and I could do everything in my power to try and change her. If she's ******-sexual she's ****** sexual. Nothing I could do would change that, your sexuality is deeply wooven into your very being.

I also kind of see if Bio/EA went and modified the characters it'd be kinda like a cop-out. I mean what do you guys want? Just random s/s relationship? Or a character who is truly meant to be there to allow you to enjoy yourself with?

If they make downloadable content, they should just make someone new altogether, a Man who wants only men. A Woman who wants only Women. They could make them look as appealing as anyone else and make them as untouchable as anyone else. Regardless for 3 I do think they should do something along those lines. Why not ask them to step up and create something not alter what they have? I mean would you rather have them make Thane swing both ways, or rather have them create a Drell that knows what he wants, and he wants you?

If they did that, then truly there'd be something for everyone, not just appeasing the odd bunch out (no offense but pretty much what's happening). Everyone would have their own exclusive romances that they could relish in, if done properly, I would be dissapointed if they just made all the characters handouts. They are all unique, and taking that away, takes away the depth there is too them.

[jlb524]

I was just reading this new interview with Casey Hudson...



Excerpt:



And one of the big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this in Mass Effect 2." If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay.



Why can't this same attitude apply to human homosexual romances, I wonder?



Bird guy with exoskeleton romance: Sure, why not?

M/M or F/F human homosexual romance: Oh noes!

[jlb524]

Untamed_skies wrote...

I'm not trying to start any flame wars or anything, but making every character open to romance I don't think would be the right way to do it. I mean every character is supposed to be unique and a individual, to make every last one of them bi is a bit exessive isn't it?

I mean Your sexuality is a big part of your personality and who you are. I being straight get a bit uncomfortable when guys hit on me. And these guys could be my friends, and do everything right, and always be there for me, and all of that, and I'm still not going to be in love with them and forcing it is uncomfortable.

On the same side of the fence, I could find a woman digs other women and I could do everything in my power to try and change her. If she's ******-sexual she's ****** sexual. Nothing I could do would change that, your sexuality is deeply wooven into your very being.

I agree that this all pertains to real life situations.  It's just a game, though.  I see it as adding in opportunites for people to enjoy the game and the escapism it provides from the crap they have to deal with in real life.  I don't think it's quite the same as forcing someone to change sexualities in RL.

I also kind of see if Bio/EA went and modified the characters it'd be kinda like a cop-out. I mean what do you guys want? Just random s/s relationship? Or a character who is truly meant to be there to allow you to enjoy yourself with?

It seems most people like the old characters (Kaidan, Tali, Garrus, Jack, etc.) and would like for them to be available s/s. I have no preference.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 juin 2010 - 07:05 .

[Ashton808]

Ah yes, Same sex romance. We have dismiss that claim.





Sorry it's not that I hate homosexuals but I do not like it.

[Wittand25]

Untamed_skies wrote...

I'm not trying to start any flame wars or anything, but making every character open to romance I don't think would be the right way to do it. I mean every character is supposed to be unique and a individual, to make every last one of them bi is a bit exessive isn't it?

I mean Your sexuality is a big part of your personality and who you are. I being straight get a bit uncomfortable when guys hit on me. And these guys could be my friends, and do everything right, and always be there for me, and all of that, and I'm still not going to be in love with them and forcing it is uncomfortable.

On the same side of the fence, I could find a woman digs other women and I could do everything in my power to try and change her. If she's ******-sexual she's ****** sexual. Nothing I could do would change that, your sexuality is deeply wooven into your very being.

I also kind of see if Bio/EA went and modified the characters it'd be kinda like a cop-out. I mean what do you guys want? Just random s/s relationship? Or a character who is truly meant to be there to allow you to enjoy yourself with?

If they make downloadable content, they should just make someone new altogether, a Man who wants only men. A Woman who wants only Women. They could make them look as appealing as anyone else and make them as untouchable as anyone else. Regardless for 3 I do think they should do something along those lines. Why not ask them to step up and create something not alter what they have? I mean would you rather have them make Thane swing both ways, or rather have them create a Drell that knows what he wants, and he wants you?

If they did that, then truly there'd be something for everyone, not just appeasing the odd bunch out (no offense but pretty much what's happening). Everyone would have their own exclusive romances that they could relish in, if done properly, I would be dissapointed if they just made all the characters handouts. They are all unique, and taking that away, takes away the depth there is too them.

For ME3 a new character as m/m romance option (f/f is already pretty much confirmed) would be good, even all it would take for existing Li to become open for the same sex in ME3 is one line of dialog. 
For ME2 adding new npc´s to the main campain as LI is very hard and likely pretty expensive. A DLC that unlocks one per sex (e.g. Jack and Jacob) for a same sex romance would be much cheaper and easier to produce, that is the reason why changing those NPC´s is even mentioned as option.

[hawat333]

Fight for the Consistency!



In Jade Empire, I had nothing against the same-sex romance, although I didn't pursue it.

In Mass Effect however we have an already-existing character, which we guide in a third-person perspective (and by that I mean the storytelling, not the TPS mechanics), who is... let's face it: straight.

Unless he/she faces serious psychological trauma, there's no reason for this to change, as it would sc..w up the consistency.

[Untamed_skies]

Yeah, I didn't think of it from a money issue, and tend to take ethical practices into thought and over anaylze things too much. (Personally I want equality for everyone period, we have bigger issues to worry about then our neighbors). There's every reason to believe they are adding new characters (9/10 new characers are added to new games). So they are already putting the money into it. I'd put my cause to the creation of something new rather then letting them take the easy way out.

I've just never been one to leave well enough alone, because if usually if you don't force the issue it doesn't get done. But like I said I'm probably thinking too much on this, either way I stand by taking the time to make someone new and appealing just for that group of people says a great deal more then being cheap. That's just my opinion though

(I have to make a quick exit it's about time for work)

[Wittand25]

hawat333 wrote...

Fight for the Consistency!

In Jade Empire, I had nothing against the same-sex romance, although I didn't pursue it.
In Mass Effect however we have an already-existing character, which we guide in a third-person perspective (and by that I mean the storytelling, not the TPS mechanics), who is... let's face it: straight.
Unless he/she faces serious psychological trauma, there's no reason for this to change, as it would sc..w up the consistency.

A female Shepard already had three oportunities for sex with another female (one human and two "not really female" asari):
Also Shepard is not predefined, (s)he does not have a sex, birthplace, military history or appearance predefined ( to just mention the story and not the gameplay elements like class or skillset) all that gets choosen by the player compare that to The Witcher or AlphaProtocol those two games had predefined main characters.

[HopHazzard]

hawat333 wrote...

Fight for the Consistency!

In Jade Empire, I had nothing against the same-sex romance, although I didn't pursue it.
In Mass Effect however we have an already-existing character, which we guide in a third-person perspective (and by that I mean the storytelling, not the TPS mechanics), who is... let's face it: straight.
Unless he/she faces serious psychological trauma, there's no reason for this to change, as it would sc..w up the consistency.

I'm sorry, what? I don't remember my Shepard ever talking about his romantic past one way or the other and every time a woman came on to him he made it quite clear he wasn't interested.

[KateKane]

hawat333 wrote...
third-person perspective

Way to parrot the company line.

Okay that helps nothing, but this line seriously bugs me. What exactly makes Commander Shepard any differant from the Warden? What's different about the way the games tell the protagonists' stories?
I just don't understand how calling it a "third-person narrative" can be seen as anything other than Bioware trying to brush the issue aside.

Modifié par KateKane, 15 juin 2010 - 10:14 .

[sagefic]

nice to see this topic is back up. i hope the thread continues.



i support gameplay and storylines that are engaging for the player and make sense for the world. it's odd to me that the world of mass effect completely avoided same-sex romances. i for one think they should make an appearance. i hope bioware takes into consideration that they ought to be a fixture in all future games.

[FataliTensei]

sagequeen wrote...

nice to see this topic is back up. i hope the thread continues.

i support gameplay and storylines that are engaging for the player and make sense for the world. it's odd to me that the world of mass effect completely avoided same-sex romances. i for one think they should make an appearance. i hope bioware takes into consideration that they ought to be a fixture in all future games.

Especially in games where one of the main selling points is that the game your story and your choices are supposed to shape the game and the story.

[btthegeek]

FataliTensei wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

nice to see this topic is back up. i hope the thread continues.

i support gameplay and storylines that are engaging for the player and make sense for the world. it's odd to me that the world of mass effect completely avoided same-sex romances. i for one think they should make an appearance. i hope bioware takes into consideration that they ought to be a fixture in all future games.

Especially in games where one of the main selling points is that the game your story and your choices are supposed to shape the game and the story.

I agree on both above points.  It's about role-playing and what consumers are demanding.  If it means that more people will get a more engaging experience and buy the next Mass Effect, why not?

[Bookman230]

hawat333 wrote...

Fight for the Consistency!

In Jade Empire, I had nothing against the same-sex romance, although I didn't pursue it.
In Mass Effect however we have an already-existing character, which we guide in a third-person perspective (and by that I mean the storytelling, not the TPS mechanics), who is... let's face it: straight.
Unless he/she faces serious psychological trauma, there's no reason for this to change, as it would sc..w up the consistency.

You do know there's Liara, right? And a female can try to romance Samara, so you can definitely make a les/bi female, though they def need more options. It seems unfair that lesbianism is fine, yet homosexuality is taken out. I do agree on the retcon partially. Not everyone is bi, but some were planned to be. They should reimplement those planned. That leaves Ash, Tali, and Liara for the girls, and Kaidan and Thane for the boys. Although I think Jack should be bi, it was a definte asspull they made for how she's not in the girl's camp, so include her. I think then two gay/bi boys should be introduced or "retconned" to make it equal between the sexes.

Anyway, I have a suggestion, one I'm suprised no one brought up. Just include a option in the options. Do you want there to be strictly heterosexuals in your game, strictly les/gay squad members in your game, or all bi. Then you could simply make your choice later in the game without being locked into it like someone pointed out the crush system might do.

[Syledir]

It is so easy to say: "Turning already established characters bi is retconning or destroys consistency." Your needs or wishes have already been fulfilled. If our roles were reversed and every romanceable NPC of Mass Effect 2 (Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane) would have been gay... lets just say BioWare would never hear the end of it. A hole avalanche of hate-mails. Demands to make the characters straight again, because there was evidence: Soundfiles of Tali being romantically interested in a male Shepard. Can you imagine? A MALE Shepard able to pursue a romance with a female NPC. Almost no one would have a problem with consistency if our roles would be reversed.



We at least try to find a solution which everyone would be satisfied with. The "crush system", the "picture frame", the "sexual preference check" or coloured texts indicated romantic dialogue.



There are already so few games that offer same sex romance and still we have to hear: Don't like, don't play. While there are more than enough games with heterosexuall romance included. So, try to see things from our perspective for a change.

[sagefic]

Bookman230 wrote...

Anyway, I have a suggestion, one I'm suprised no one brought up. Just include a option in the options. Do you want there to be strictly heterosexuals in your game, strictly les/gay squad members in your game, or all bi. Then you could simply make your choice later in the game without being locked into it like someone pointed out the crush system might do.

i think this has been mentioned, but i don't know if it was mentioned in this thread. it was in sw33ts original FAQ.

i think this is ideal:

set character sex, appearance, backstory, and orientation. this will enable romance options accordingly. it would also serve as a great parental control for those who wish to turn off all romance options - either if they're letting kids or teens play (though, with the violence/M rating that might be a bit unlikely) OR for those who simply find the LI stuff boring.

[ElitePinecone]

jCasey Hudson wrote...

And one of the big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this in Mass Effect 2." If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay.

This really, really annoys me. Casey defended the lack of same-sex romances in ME2 by saying they had to draw the line somewhere and there simply wasn't the space. Now he's saying that the development team found time to respond to fan requests for a Garrus romance, and decided on a whim to chuck it in.

So if people want to have a romance with this "bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay".
If people want to have a romance with a character of the same gender, then - what? Sorry, no more space left?

[The Uncanny]

sagequeen wrote...

i think this has been mentioned, but i don't know if it was mentioned in this thread. it was in sw33ts original FAQ.

i think this is ideal:

set character sex, appearance, backstory, and orientation. this will enable romance options accordingly. it would also serve as a great parental control for those who wish to turn off all romance options - either if they're letting kids or teens play (though, with the violence/M rating that might be a bit unlikely) OR for those who simply find the LI stuff boring.

On the one hand I rather bridle at the concept of sexual orientation being defined in such an either/or binary fashion. On the other the pragmatist in me can see that this solves an awful lot of issues.

[Christmas Ape]

hawat333 wrote...

Fight for the Consistency!

In Jade Empire, I had nothing against the same-sex romance, although I didn't pursue it.
In Mass Effect however we have an already-existing character, which we guide in a third-person perspective (and by that I mean the storytelling, not the TPS mechanics), who is... let's face it: straight.
Unless he/she faces serious psychological trauma, there's no reason for this to change, as it would sc..w up the consistency.

Cite your sources.