9243 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

Collider wrote...

Not necessarily. Meer and Hale are given the same script (which saves time). This is why there is a voice file in the original game disk where Meer refers to himself as a woman. Then there's this.

Oh? Then where are Meer's lines for Jacob? Or Hale's lines for Tali?

Collider wrote...

Shepard isn't a party member. I'm sure you understand my meaning though.

You didn't seem to understand mine, given you ignored the rest of that quote. Your party in ME1 all break the law too, when they leave the citadel; and in ME2, everyone on your ship is again a lawbreaker, you just happen to operate outside of citadel jurisdiction for most of the game.

Your definition of "rogue" is inherently flawed.

Collider wrote...
The characters themselves were not offensive. The fact that most of them were of questionable morality was a bit - tending towards "roguish" or "scoundrel" like behavior, was a bit. Kind of like the "evil bisexual" trope.

Your standards for morality, like your definition of rogue, are far too limited in scope. Any character traveling with the protagonist in any of those three games could be labelled a "scoundrel." Even Samara flouts her extremely rigid code to join Shepard, with the vague handwave of resuming it later after the mission is complete; this is particularly true if they all gleefully sign on with a Renegade.

[Siansonea]

yorkj86 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

People really aren’t that consistent in real life, so it wouldn’t be odd if Shepard was all over the map with his/her romance decisions. As it is now, ManShepard can get busy with alien-hating Ashley in ME1, then turn right around and schtupp Tali in ME2. That’s not terribly consistent. Conversely, a Liaramancer who then romances Miranda or Jack is kind of departing from what was established with Liara (xenophilia). Both of these violations of consistency don’t seem to be addressed, merely that this same Shepard moving on to a same-sex romance is somehow completely unrealistic.

No offense, Sian, but that's an ignorant statement.  Moving from Liara to Jack, for example, is not necessarily an indicator of hypocrisy.   There are many reasons why he could choose to move on, not the least of which is Shepard simply not caring about the person's species, and, instead, only caring about what's between the person's ears/sensory pits/whatever.

I'm just trying to illustrate that there are a lot of things that could be considered 'inconsistent' if you look hard enough, not trying to get into an argument about Shepard's motivation.

And please, let's not throw around the word 'ignorant' like that, K? Aren't we on the same side here? I could easily take offense at something like that.

[DanaScu]

I don't scrutinize "consistent" that much. Remember way back in the game [2 years] ago when none of the weapons had these wonderful thermal clips? None of the weapons Shepard and company used or scrounged/looted had thermal clips. Thermal clips were said to be a new innovation. Okay. I can buy that. I can even buy the glossing over of Shepard knowing what a thermal clip is and how to use it in the tutorial when she/he had never seen one before. What I can't buy is that the crew/mechs of the Hugo Gernsback had weapons that used thermal clips. You know, the ship that crashed almost 10 years ago? Unless a ten year old freighter had more extreme cutting edge technology than the Alliance's built only two years ago super secret cutting edge technology Normandy....



Getting to something that could be consistent, or at least I hope so, I just finished the LotSB. I was very happy with it on the whole. Now I just hope that they corral some of the new herd of plot bunnies that appeared and allow us to follow up with them. Like Liara's "father", Anderson's meeting and altercation with Udina, Aria, Bailey, and so on. And, of course, a shot at Shepard's "happily ever after".

[Sporothrix]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Collider wrote...

Not necessarily. Meer and Hale are given the same script (which saves time). This is why there is a voice file in the original game disk where Meer refers to himself as a woman. Then there's this.

Oh? Then where are Meer's lines for Jacob? Or Hale's lines for Tali?

There are lines for Tali (search YT), but it seems Meers only recored Thane. Also, that "same script which saves time" is unlogical argument, because there's more work with it than simply reading few lines.
And, compared to ME1 same-sex romance lines which sound strange (too loud and unpolished), their quality match with other dialogues this time.

And BTW Collider, Juhani was a lesbian (it's confirmed a bug made it possible for male characters to romance her, but they fixed that with patch), not bisexual.
And she's Guardian, not Sentinel.

Modifié par misoretu9, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:26 .

[Poaches]

Wasn't the whole Juhani thing established after the fact that male Revan/Bastilla was made canon?

[Sporothrix]

And what does it change? Because canon Revan is male and doesn't romance her, she's suddenly not lesbian?

[ScotGaymer]

misoretu9 wrote...

And what does it change? Because canon Revan is male and doesn't romance her, she's suddenly not lesbian?

I think he meant that Juhani was canonised as a Lesbian Jedi after LA announced/said that Revan was canonically light side male and canonically did Bastila.

[ElitePinecone]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...

And what does it change? Because canon Revan is male and doesn't romance her, she's suddenly not lesbian?

I think he meant that Juhani was canonised as a Lesbian Jedi after LA announced/said that Revan was canonically light side male and canonically did Bastila.

That does raise an interesting question though. Juhani's sexuality was externally enforceable, so to speak, because LucasArts controls the Star Wars IP and requires characters to be a certain status (male, dark side, straight, whatever) for canon purposes.

In the universe of Mass Effect, as far as we've seen, canon and this external enforcement don't exist and probably won't. Though certain events are set in stone, story wise, Bioware has made huge efforts to deliberately leave ambiguous things like Shepard's gender, class, background and the like - note that I'm talking about canon purposes here, rather than advertising or the default character. I'd tend to argue that in this fluid characterisation environment, debates about Shepard's sexuality are a little futile - only a very few facts about Shepard are 'concrete', canon-wise. Much of the character is a blank canvas, so to speak - a notion that is sometimes lost in this thread.

[ScotGaymer]

ElitePinecone wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...

And what does it change? Because canon Revan is male and doesn't romance her, she's suddenly not lesbian?

I think he meant that Juhani was canonised as a Lesbian Jedi after LA announced/said that Revan was canonically light side male and canonically did Bastila.

That does raise an interesting question though. Juhani's sexuality was externally enforceable, so to speak, because LucasArts controls the Star Wars IP and requires characters to be a certain status (male, dark side, straight, whatever) for canon purposes.

In the universe of Mass Effect, as far as we've seen, canon and this external enforcement don't exist and probably won't. Though certain events are set in stone, story wise, Bioware has made huge efforts to deliberately leave ambiguous things like Shepard's gender, class, background and the like - note that I'm talking about canon purposes here, rather than advertising or the default character. I'd tend to argue that in this fluid characterisation environment, debates about Shepard's sexuality are a little futile - only a very few facts about Shepard are 'concrete', canon-wise. Much of the character is a blank canvas, so to speak - a notion that is sometimes lost in this thread.

I agree.

I mean its why the whole "Shepard isnt gay!" arguement is total bull. I mean why all this effort towards not defining a canon Shepard to then turn around and say "but this ONE thing you cant define cos clearly a ****** cant be a kick ass space hero"?

It makes no sense.

[Dragonikus]

I have just the thing for you!!



And even more accurate -


I've met few gay people and there is no way any of those could even remotely be a saviour of the galaxy with their "Oh, your shoes look so great! "

We need a bad ass, not a homosexual.
A hero with Testosteron.
Mass Effect 2 is the best game in the world, and if BioWare would allow homosexual relationships in game it would plant a seed in my head. It would start a snowball that would ruin the joy of playing the ultimate hero.
Dragon Age and Mass Effect have different weight. On one hand we have a fantasy character in an old fantasy world with very few rules. Lets call it "the past", on the other hand we have a hero of the future.

Sheppard was hand picked by Anderson, I am sure his records were checked in every detail.
Someone that is supposed to represent humanity cant be Homosexual, come on... Hero of the Citadel, saviour of the Council, Commander, Fought Heretics, opposed the Old Machines.
I know that The Illusive Man is racist, I am not sure if he'd approve Sheppard to be homosexual.

I also hope that lack of Homosexuality in this game is related to the sexual orientation of the Programmers. I for one would be really disgusted if I had to make animations for relationships of the same sex.

Homosexuals are a minority, why would our hero be one of those? 

[Quething]

Thanks for the bump, Dragonikus!

[Dragonikus]

Its a discussion, I can throw in my 5 cents without you telling me I actually helped. I didnt.

[PsyrenY]

Ah, but you did. The more straight people that are ashamed to be seen with you, the more will be supportive of our cause.

[Dragonikus]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Ah, but you did. The more straight people that are ashamed to be seen with you, the more will be supportive of our cause.

Excuse me? 

And I am glad you said its YOUR cause.

[PsyrenY]

Dragonikus wrote...

Excuse me? 

And I am glad you said its YOUR cause.

Um.... whose else would it be? Equality is a gift that belongs to all of us; it is our cause.

[Cuddlezarro]

since when where all gay men effeminate twinks who acted all fabulous again? because being gay=/=flaming queen

[Dragonikus]

As far as I was told Homosexuality had something to do with brain not working the way it should. I am all for equality however I dont want my Sheppard to have mental problems. I would also not like to see him having the same problem Joker or Thane has. Its a simple thing. I am not trying to insult you, but I am also trying to say that Homosexuality is unnatural.



I've seen many threads like this on many forums. Star Wars The Old Republic for example. Please, by all means, have your Homosexual romances in most of the MMOs, Role Playing Games. I am fine with Dragon age having such a thing, I am also fine with you asking for the same thing Star Wars forums and I would even help you there, but Sheppard? Can this one be left alone? Its a hero. As I said - face of Humanity, He represents it. This is way too heavy.

Besides, 2 out of 3 Mass Effects had no same sex romancing, so why should it be in a third one?



And I hope you are not going to throw sarcasm my way again, because it's getting old.

[Cuddlezarro]

Besides, 2 out of 3 Mass Effects had no same sex romancing, so why should it be in a third one?

Did Femsheps suddenly lose the ability to romance Liara when I wasnt looking? (oh and that fling with kelly)

[Dragonikus]

You can also feel free to give me examples of Bad ass homosexuals. I'll be glad to apologise for my mistake and wont feel ashamed while doing so.

[Siansonea]

Dragonikus wrote...

I have just the thing for you!!



And even more accurate -


I've met few gay people and there is no way any of those could even remotely be a saviour of the galaxy with their "Oh, your shoes look so great! "

We need a bad ass, not a homosexual.
A hero with Testosteron.
Mass Effect 2 is the best game in the world, and if BioWare would allow homosexual relationships in game it would plant a seed in my head. It would start a snowball that would ruin the joy of playing the ultimate hero.
Dragon Age and Mass Effect have different weight. On one hand we have a fantasy character in an old fantasy world with very few rules. Lets call it "the past", on the other hand we have a hero of the future.

Sheppard was hand picked by Anderson, I am sure his records were checked in every detail.
Someone that is supposed to represent humanity cant be Homosexual, come on... Hero of the Citadel, saviour of the Council, Commander, Fought Heretics, opposed the Old Machines.
I know that The Illusive Man is racist, I am not sure if he'd approve Sheppard to be homosexual.

I also hope that lack of Homosexuality in this game is related to the sexual orientation of the Programmers. I for one would be really disgusted if I had to make animations for relationships of the same sex.

Homosexuals are a minority, why would our hero be one of those? 

I really hope someone at BioWare reads your post, Dragonikus. You illustrate our point perfectly.

This, BioWare, is who you are accommodating with your current stance on the issue. Is this the company you want to be?

[Quething]

Dragonikus wrote...

And I hope you are not going to throw sarcasm my way again, because it's getting old.

As opposed to your sentiments, which are entirely fresh and unheard of by anyone on this thread.

[Dragonikus]

And how am I being bad? I forgot to mention that one of my friends is gay.

And that I am not against homosexuality, just homosexuality being in Mass Effect, and ONLY in Mass Effect. I am gonna repeat myself but - you can have your same sex romancing in all other Role Playing games, just leave this one alone.

[Ziggy]

Dragonikus wrote...
As far as I was told Homosexuality had something to do with brain not working the way it should. I am all for equality however I dont want my Sheppard to have mental problems. I would also not like to see him having the same problem Joker or Thane has. Its a simple thing. I am not trying to insult you, but I am also trying to say that Homosexuality is unnatural.

You really should check theories like that before believing them.
Homosexuality has nothing to do with that, and just because some trait or activity isn't the norm doesn't make it unnatural. In addition, the term 'unnatural' doesn't imply anything about morality or whatever else so I don't know why you bring it up in the first place.
You clearly have a very particular idea of how every single homosexual behaves. Homosexuality is not a personality. Like straight people, homosexuals have all sorts of personalities: some suited to saving galaxies, others not.

Modifié par Em23, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:44 .

[PsyrenY]

Dragonikus wrote...

You can also feel free to give me examples of Bad ass homosexuals. I'll be glad to apologise for my mistake and wont feel ashamed while doing so.

Albus Dumbledore.
What do I win?

[CShep25]

Dragonikus wrote...

As far as I was told Homosexuality had something to do with brain not working the way it should. I am all for equality however I dont want my Sheppard to have mental problems.

 
Do you believe everything people tell you? Just because your mate Clive tells you gay is retarded down at the pub one tuesday evening doesn't mean it's true.

Dragonikus wrote...

Its a simple thing. I am not trying to insult you, but I am also trying to say that Homosexuality is unnatural.

 'Gay people are retarded, no offense.' Wow.

For the record, my dog George loves it when dude-dogs mount him. And nature is jam packed with examples of homosexuality in different species. If anything is unnatural, it's homophobia.