53 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

I just did an Adept playthrough specifically to figure out what the deal was with Singularity and it really does own your big bad enemies. Scions will not throw a shockwave at you. Geth Primes will not fire, particularly with their biotic attack. Harbinger is absolutely helpless. It'll immediately stop a krogan's charge. It will cause just about any enemy to stop from approaching, even with defenses up. Once you get the cooldown upgrades, by the time a Singularity fizzles out, you can have it ready to throw again.
However, there are limits to what a Singularity can do for you. It's not going to stop a YMIR mech until the defenses are down. The more enemies that get pulled into a Singularity, the shorter it lasts -- something I discovered when I attempted to stop a swarm of what must have been a dozen husks at one time. These failings do not automatically make Singularity a useless power. There are plenty of classes that have excellent powers that will not help you 100% of the time. When a power is 100% effective, it's then overpowered.

Modifié par Pacifien, 16 juin 2010 - 03:10 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

In all the rpg fantasy games I played, mages can't use certain ablities against certain enemies because they're immune to some type of spells. In DA for example, you'll have to fight fire demons - they are immune to fire attacks, but susceptible to ice attacks. It's exactly the same with ME2. Reave and Warp do double damage against armor and barriers, but are useless against shields. Overload and ED do double damage against shields, but nothing against armor and barriers. The protection system makes perfect sense if you ask me.

The only adept power you have discussed there is Warp. The adept is often forced to use a gun to strip away protectsions. He can't simply use an alternate adept power like mages in DA use different spells. And when that is the case is is usually more effective to go ahead and shoot the target to death.

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The only adept power you have discussed there is Warp. The adept is often forced to use a gun to strip away protectsions. He can't simply use an alternate adept power like mages in DA use different spells. And when that is the case is is usually more effective to go ahead and shoot the target to death.

ME2 is primarily a shooter, with class specific powers. Soldiers don't have biotic or tech powers, but can use all weapon types. Adepts can use powerful biotic attacks, but lack fire power compared to a soldier. DA mages are worthless warriors so they must have spells to deal with different enemies (though mages still have to make choices which spells to take, they can't have all). But that is besides the point I was trying to make. Both DA and ME2 are designed to be played with a team. Adepts can easily compansate their inability to strip shields either with a bonus power or by bringing the right squadies.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


In all the rpg fantasy games I played, mages can't use certain ablities against certain enemies because they're immune to some type of spells. In DA for example, you'll have to fight fire demons - they are immune to fire attacks, but susceptible to ice attacks.

Thats ok.Too bad their isnt a biotic attack that is effective against shields/shielded enemies.

It's exactly the same with ME2. Reave and Warp do double damage against armor and barriers, but are useless against shields. Overload and ED do double damage against shields, but nothing against armor and barriers. The protection system makes perfect sense if you ask me.

No,it doesnt.The classpower have to work all the time and at all enemies on all difficulties. Like with most other classes. Singularity dont work on varren and fenris mechs. It doesnt work on ymirs. There isnt a enemy that is immun against cloak or could prevent soldiers use adrenaline rush. Where is the balance and their weaknesses in this case?

Singularity doesn't do any significant damage to a prime, but holds it in place and primes don't fire at you. (not bad me thinks)

What the hell are you talking about? The geth primes are the guys with the tech drone and the revenant machine gun.
Singularity dont stop them and dont stop them to fire at me. I dont discuss about  geth destroyers(flamethrower) or geth hunters(cloaked enemies with shotgun). Just tested it out with overlord.Singularity didnt work on them.

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...
 When a power is 100% effective, it's then overpowered.

Then cloak and adrenaline rush is overpowered,right? Enemies with anti cloak devices didnt exist in Mass Effect 2.Enemies that could damp adrenaline rush also didnt exist.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 juin 2010 - 06:23 .

[Pacifien]

I do consider adrenaline rush to be overpowered. Not sure about cloak, if you used it for CQC against a YMIR mech, you're still up against a YMIR mech once the cloak finishes.

[Simbacca]

tonnactus wrote...

Its relevant because biotics are essentially the mages of Mass Effect.

Well it seems like that at first because biotics are somewhat mystical and tech is science, but I'd argue that in ME2, the closest class to a mage is the Engineer.  As I said earlier, "Adepts are telekinectic, but the Engineer's feel more like the mages in ME2 with their fire, shock, and ice abilities".  I guess they're both mage classes, the Engineer being the elemental, pet summoning, mind controlling caster while the Adept is the Jedi-inspired force user, except the force in this game can not work on armor though it works on organic and synthetic bodies just fine.


Just thinking out-loud here, but when I get to my Adept playthrough (as I will run through with all the classes at some point), instead of taking the typical Energy Drain or Warp Ammo as a bonus, I'll take Dominate.  Bring a little mind controlling to ME2's other mage class [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

mcsupersport wrote...

Engineers I haven't really played yet.

Definitely do so.  The Vanguard will probably always be my favorite class in ME2, just because I love the high risk/high reward shotgunning playstyle, but this very different feeling Engineer run is a lot more fun than I expected in its own right.  I feel like I always have options as to what to cast and I love combining the various tech skills and physical attacks.  If you enjoy playing an Adept enough to list it alongside the Vanguard as your favorite ME2 classes, I'm sure you enjoy playing the Engineer.

Modifié par Simbacca, 16 juin 2010 - 06:45 .

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...

I do consider adrenaline rush to be overpowered. Not sure about cloak, if you used it for CQC against a YMIR mech, you're still up against a YMIR mech once the cloak finishes.

There is always enough good cover where ymirs are.And the adept has nothing to stop those enemies or do damage them safely.

The point of biotics were crowd control.With the "protection system" and such silly small radiuses(3m at best,lol) this is gone in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 juin 2010 - 08:22 .

[RGFrog]

I don't think any class is supposed to be an all powerful island unto itself. Adept is my favorite, though, and i'm on a engineer right now.

What I've found is that you have to take squadies with you to handle the stuff you can't. So, as an adept, I often took zaeed for disruptor ammo or miri/garrus for overload to handle shield stuff. Plus, shields were nothing once the smg is upgraded to pierce them.

Also, as a adept you can take energy drain to deal with shields if you want to take an all biotic crew. Doing that with Samara and Thane (or rarely jack for her squad warp ammo) was a blast. Albeit a slow going blast for insanity run.

I'm on engineer now and it's the other side of the same coin pretty much. I take warp ammo to handle barriers or miri and/or thane. drone acts like a tech version of singularity to aid with crowd control, and pretty much everything else is susceptible to fire/ice. So, i find myself "casting" as an engineer just as much as I did with an adept and only slightly more shooting. But, there are times when i've gone through 3 missions without firing a shot due to good squad control.

Now, I just take a good ammo power to bolster my lacking tallents for the first part of a playthrough. Do all the missions that get my class skill max bonuses and then rarely have to pull out a weapon at all beyond using the cain on a few of the end bosses.

[Pacifien]

tonnactus wrote...
There is always enough good cover where ymirs are.And the adept has nothing to stop those enemies or do damage them safely.

Really? 'Cause my Adept still had a gun.

The fact that the YMIR mech is the Adept's weak point doesn't take away from the fact that it is a particularly strong class over many different other enemies.

[borelocin]

NICKjnp wrote...

My thoughts....
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What he said ! I sometimes forget I have guns when playing as an adept.

[didiware]

borelocin wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

My thoughts....
/uploads_user/6000/5109/33160.jpg

What he said ! I sometimes forget I have guns when playing as an adept.

Me to, most battles I never fire my gun once. If I bring say, Miranda and Jack then we're pretty much unsoppable. Warp, Shockwave and Slam, is all I need

[Veritasinpersonam]

RGFrog wrote...

I don't think any class is supposed to be an all powerful island unto itself.

Vanguard

[Crunchyinmilk]

Warp isn't too shabby against the average mopes shields, even on insanity. Its no overload or energy drain but its not useless. It has a nice stun effect too, handy for stunning, then peppering with a little gunfire. Smaller guys you can use a singularity right away, and shoot off their shields while they struggle, and watch them go flying. You're a soldier no matter what class you play. Gunfire is a part of every classes strategy. Singularity still works as crowd control, despite its low radius even with the wide evolution. You can still target the ground in front of a charging enemy and let loose a singularity, they'll run into the damn thing. Crowd control. I dance quite comically around singularities on husk levels, striping their armor with a warp ammo charged AR. Not quite as eloquent as in ME1 but still effective.

I really don't understand people loving veteran and lower difficulties because they can make every fight a cakewalk just by spamming biotics. Personally I enjoy the protection stripping mechanics, it makes you work as a team to make targets vulnerable to your biotics, rather than just thinking things... and they happen.

[Simbacca]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

...I really don't understand people loving veteran and lower difficulties because they can make every fight a cakewalk just by spamming biotics. Personally I enjoy the protection stripping mechanics, it makes you work as a team to make targets vulnerable to your biotics, rather than just thinking things... and they happen.

Agreed.  I enjoy playing this game on Insanity because it makes build order and squad decisions matter more.  It's another form of choice and consequence, and if there's one thing I wish there was more of in my RPGs, it's C&C.

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...

Really? 'Cause my Adept still had a gun.

Yes.And mages have still daggers,right? At least in Oblivion. Its retarded, plain and simple.Yes, you could find good workarounds(zaeeds disruptor ammo/someone with overload),but its still retarded.

Thats why i bring this example with the mage that had to use a dagger before he/she actually use some spells.It didnt make sense and thats is not the purpose of biotics to be fancy finishers.Its crowd control.Neutralizing enemies when they are dangerous and not nearly dead.

And in addition to the protection system,the cooldown of squadmate abilities is at least double as long as shepards and their weapon damage is 50 percent lower.

Off topic: And the last part of the overlord dlc was really great...Take out the blue shielded balls to prevent the infection of the normandy as an adept without helping squadmates.With some geth shooting at you.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 juin 2010 - 04:06 .

[Pacifien]

Adepts are incredibly good at crowd control. Because they can't stop a YMIR mech, suddenly they're worthless? They still own scions, krogan, harbinger, and a host of other enemies.



The fact that Adepts are weak in the beginning is the classic failing of being a mage class, as you pointed out. And as most mage classes, they make up for it by being incredibly powerful toward the end.



I did do Overlord with my Adept. I did fine.

[incinerator950]

Pacifien wrote...

Adepts are incredibly good at crowd control. Because they can't stop a YMIR mech, suddenly they're worthless? They still own scions, krogan, harbinger, and a host of other enemies.

The fact that Adepts are weak in the beginning is the classic failing of being a mage class, as you pointed out. And as most mage classes, they make up for it by being incredibly powerful toward the end.

I did do Overlord with my Adept. I did fine.

Meh

[Crunchyinmilk]

Neutralizing enemies when they are dangerous and not nearly dead.

Well this is actually an argument for playing adepts on hardcore/insanity. On veteran and lower, enemies without protection are never dangerous, to an adept they're one click away from being dead and forgotten.

On insanity just about any opponent with a sliver of health is still potentially deadly. You have to prioritise targets and work with your squad mates to strip the right guys first. Use your biotics to both pin down targets with protection, and make for safer killing of targets without protection.

Its quite a surprise to singularity an unprotected target, have them float over your head behind you, and be outgunned by them even with just their sliver of health. Its nothing close to fair and it can be damn frustrating, but at the same time more interesting and engaging.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Too bad their isnt a biotic attack that is effective against shields/shielded enemies.

Singularity is effective against shielded enemies.

The classpower have to work all the time and at all enemies on all difficulties. Like with most other classes. Singularity dont work on varren and fenris mechs. It doesnt work on ymirs. There isnt a enemy that is immun against cloak or could prevent soldiers use adrenaline rush. Where is the balance and their weaknesses in this case?

Cloak and AR do nothing to an enemy. You can press the button a hundred times, no enemy will be hurt. Cloak and AR are passive powers - they give bonuses to the player, making it easier to aim / doing more damage. Singularity is an active power. All powers have their strenghts and weaknesses. Check out this video 
I'm willing to trade any power for Energy Drain during Geth missions and you gotta love Cryo Ammo.

Pacifien wrote...

Adepts are incredibly good at crowd control. Because they can't stop a YMIR mech, suddenly they're worthless? They still own scions, krogan, harbinger, and a host of other enemies.

The fact that Adepts are weak in the beginning is the classic failing of being a mage class, as you pointed out. And as most mage classes, they make up for it by being incredibly powerful toward the end.

Exactly!

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 17 juin 2010 - 04:59 .

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...

Adepts are incredibly good at crowd control.

Maybee we have different oppinions about what is real crowd control.Adepts have one power that work like intended on hardcore /insanity and the range of this power is laughable small. 3 meters at best. Basic singularity has a better range in the first game then the "evolved" version. Just compare the hold duration of singularity with the incapitate duration of flashbang grenade and the radious of this ability.(9 to 3 meters) And the grenade didnt have an enemy limitation.

The fact that Adepts are weak in the beginning is the classic failing of being a mage class, as you pointed out. And as most mage classes, they make up for it by being incredibly powerful toward the end.

I did do Overlord with my Adept. I did fine.

This was true in the first game.Now the adept starts good(could "spam" singularity and warp) but not really improves over the game. I mean 1,25 radious with 3 meters at the end. This isnt improvement.

[NICKjnp]

I never use cryo ammo.

[Bozorgmehr]

NICKjnp wrote...

I never use cryo ammo.

Its the best Ammo Power around. Try it and find out for yourself.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...



Too bad their isnt a biotic attack that is effective against shields/shielded enemies.

Singularity is effective against shielded enemies.

I wouldnt call that effective.Over the time,it could destroy the shields of some cannon fodder,thats right.

Cloak and AR do nothing to an enemy.

Right.They are combat powers(the weapon damage of cloak didnt increase with upgrades) that work in combination of shooting.Point still stands: There arent enemies that could damp adrenaline rush or have anti cloak devices.

And i cant accept that singularity didnt work on heavy mechs.But varren and fenris just running through it? That is a big joke. Harbinger and scions get staggered by it but fenris mechs/varren ingnore the power.Beyond silly.

All powers have their strenghts and weaknesses. Check out this video 

Cloak could be a weakness when some more enemies use flashbang grenades like in kasumis mission(damp tech abilities).But this is just one mission in the game and not everyone has this download content.

Adrenaline didnt have any weaknesses.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 juin 2010 - 06:06 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Its quite a surprise to singularity an unprotected target, have them float over your head behind you, and be outgunned by them even with just their sliver of health. Its nothing close to fair and it can be damn frustrating, but at the same time more interesting and engaging.

The slinging an enemy away from the singularity is the thing I hate the most about singularity. I try to use throw  or pull on an unprotected enemy.