390 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

No thanks Geth nutters vs the Taliban is scary.



Also since you seem to believe that anything not human deserves death than there is no point in arguing it seems.



Bye

[MadInfiltrator]

Shandepared wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Youre brain runs on the same processes as a computer...

No, it does not.

Actually, they are quite similar, but not exactly the same.

Computers use a series of 0s and 1s to react to stimuli. A pattern forms what action their processing will take.
Human brains use a series of about 0,1,2 and 3. While this is not much more it allows for us to factor in emotion, experience, blah blah...... And in turn allows our thought patterns to make much more varied and distinct decision.

In any case, I would say that each actor was good enough in their own right. While Bale and Worthington were very believable, I would lament that the turning point scene in the river was the films weakest, which is sad as it highlights the actors inability to mesh.

And anyone who complains of too much action in a Terminator movie should be castrated.

[MadInfiltrator]

Shandepared wrote...

MadInfiltrator wrote...

Actually, they are quite similar, but not exactly the same.

Build a computer to run exactly as a human brain does and it won't run.

Of course it won't. I have no idea how to make computers.

[Giggles_Manically]

To date no AI or computer has passed the Turing Test, meaning talking to it and thinking another human is on the other end. While they can get closer and closer every year there is a limit to what a computer can do.



Also we lack understanding of many areas of the brain since some parts dont seem to do anything yet damage to those parts kills people from complications very quickly.

[Giggles_Manically]

I did do a test where I chatted with a computer program but it did make many mistakes and couldnt answer many questions but it was eerie.



Our mind is so complex that we may never truly figure it out, and even today people find things they never new before.



Computers are hardware and software, while Brains it seems are Chemicals and something intangible that you can call experience, or even a soul.

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't give a crap about David. Cerberus could kill him for all I care. I have the entire sodding Galaxy counting on my Shepard. Perhaps Paragons should consider that they have trillions upon trillions of lives at stake based on their decisions.

I also don't feel people with mental problems should be given special treatment. I have spent most of my life dealing with such people, and I cannot feel any sort of pity for what I would call human vegetables which are not productive ( or not nearly as productive as a normal person ) to the society.

As for hardline Renegades who could not leave him there, you disgust me if you did save David but destroyed the Genophage Data and/or killed the Rachni Queen.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:27 .

[nov_pl]

Shandepared wrote...

I left him with Dr. Archer. The potential benefits if this process can be perfected are simply too grand to pass up. It is the ultimate weapon against the geth.

Which can be destroyed or reprogrammed.

[nov_pl]

I also don't feel people with mental problems should be given special treatment. I have spent most of my life dealing with such people, and I cannot feel any sort of pity for what I would call human vegetables which are not productive ( or not nearly as productive as a normal person ) to the society.

You should know the difference beetween human vegetable and an autistic guy.

[Sursion]

I let him go. Putting aside the morality of the subject, I have no need to control the geth. I'm with Legion, plus I rewrote the heretics. I'm convinced the geth are not a threat.

[Bryy_Miller]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't give a crap about David. Cerberus could kill him for all I care. I have the entire sodding Galaxy counting on my Shepard. Perhaps Paragons should consider that they have trillions upon trillions of lives at stake based on their decisions.

Even if I was not autistic, I would still find this incredibly ignorant and downright.... sadistic. Let's say that something like Overlord happened in real life. A human being was mutilated with machinery and forced to compute numbers all of their lives. They would go to the bathroom through a tube. They couldn't speak. They couldn't move. They could only cry. You wouldn't give a crap? Why? Because people afflicted with autism are different? You'd want them dead? Because they are different? 

I also don't feel people with mental problems should be given special treatment.

Well, here's a shocker: I agree with you. The autistic kid agrees with you. 

But you know what? Saving someone from a life of slavery is not special treatment. That's just humane.

nov_pl wrote...

 I have spent most of my life dealing with such people, and I cannot feel any sort of pity for what I would call human vegetables which are not productive ( or not nearly as productive as a normal person ) to the society.

You should know the difference beetween human vegetable and an autistic guy.

Honestly. So, you're saying that we should kill everyone with brain damage? Tell that to my friend who is recovering from being hit with a motorcycle last year. He can sit up and say "hello" and "yes" now. Would it been better to have killed him? Furthermore, someone with autism is not the same as someone in a persistent coma state. How can you even think that those two things are in any way related? All you have to do is look at someone with autism to know that they are not in a coma. Some of my friends are those "vegetable" types that you describe, and they are some of the smartest people that I know. Oh noes, parts of their brains are rewired different. Oh noes! 

What if YOU were disabled?

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:36 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Bryy_Miller: Well here is a shocker for you. I got a galaxy to save. Excuse me if I don't give a crap for one tortured person out of the trillions I am responsible for. I firmly believe in the Greater Good, and that the ends justify the means.

Oh let's save David because it's the right thing to do. I sure hope you can sleep at night if that decision leads to deaths of thousands/millions, cause it sure as hell MIGHT ( and I sure as hell don't want to take that risk for one person, disabled or not ).

You know what Archer says at the start? "Sometimes you have to ignore the risks." Well good for you, because by freeing David you are doing exactly, and taking a Risk with the Geth. I like Legion but I sure as hell won't trust the entire Geth species based on what he says.

Apparently for many the fact that David is autistic changes their decision, for me I make the decision even if it was a normal person.

Honestly. So, you're saying that we should kill everyone with brain damage? Tell that to my friend who is recovering from being hit with a motorcycle last year. He can sit up and say "hello" and "yes" now. Would it been better to have killed him? Furthermore, someone with autism is not the same as someone in a persistent coma state. How can you even think that those two things are in any way related? All you have to do is look at someone with autism to know that they are not in a coma. Some of my friends are those "vegetable" types that you describe, and they are some of the smartest people that I know. Oh noes, parts of their brains are rewired different. Oh noes!

I love it how people assume based on what you say something completely different. I do not care to take pity doesn't ****ing equal to I want to kill them.

And please don't insult me by saying I don't know the difference...my mother's best friend ( who also runs a foundation for people with mental disabilities ) child ( who I grew up with btw ) is autistic. I know exactly what it entails. I also know they need special care and they are NOT as productive to society as a normal person, that's period.

Take care of them, sure np, but if you are expecting me to feel sorry or anything like for those kind of people then no. I don't despise them, I just don't care either way. 

What if YOU were disabled?

Well I am not, and I sure as hell I ain't going to pretend to think what a disabled person thinks like.

At the end of the day. Archer seems genuine to me when he speaks fondly of his brother. Yes he used him for that experiment, but considering that we face the utter annihilation of the entire Galaxy ( so easily forgotten by people ) I understand why he did it. Ultimately Archer was an idiot for what he did, but that does not mean he doesn't care for his brother. And that in a small part is why I leave David with him. Do you honestly believe that Cerberus would just let him there? TIM himself says David will get the best medical attention in his email if you do leave him there....and the entails they take him down. ( don't quite understand what's the need to be put on the machine like that, but whatever )

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:54 .

[Bryy_Miller]

"Cerberus could kill him for all I care"



Pick your words, son. Pick your words.

[Costin_Razvan]

Those words mean what they mean: That I don't care about him. What they do with him is not my problem nor will I make it such.

I like it how you twist my words, but then again those that let David there apparently "have no soul."

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 07:12 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I like it how you twist my words, but then again those that let David there apparently "have no soul."

I explained to you how I got the impression you were for the killing of the ill. 
I also have no problem if people choose to leave David. It's a goddamn video game. My issues were with your attitude, namely your ignorant comment comparing autistic to people in vegetative states.

[Costin_Razvan]

I admit, I made a poor choice of words earlier. My mistake.

[Giggles_Manically]

Since its DLC I have a good feeling that it will get reduced to Emails/News Feeds ala BDTS and Pinnacle Station.



Sadly I agree right now with Costin we know nothing of the Geth to date (Legion could be talking out his USB port for all we know) so having an ace up the sleeve is something we need. Didnt make me feel any better for doing it but operating on blind trust is not how specters or N7's are supposed to do their work.



Did it for the same reason I killed Balak, like 5 people are at risk, compared to a nutter who was willing to cause an extinction level event? Sorry but killing Balak while "Renegade": is the best option for the whole galaxy.



But thats what multiple PT are for I have straight up goody-goody paragons, renegade spetznas style shepards, and various shades of the scales as well. Still felt bad for the kid since that was like an living hell practiacally.

[Whereto]

I couldn't leave him there for the sheer fact that it was unethical and immoral. How could you do that to another human let alone your brother, which probably would be much better of helping humanity else where because of his mathematical gift.



Though the thought of leaving them there passed through my mind for a second because it could prove valuable to infecting a reaper but that's all I could come up with to allow it to continue so I stopped it.



I had a feeling in the back of my mind that Cerberus maybe good but this experiment showed me that they just want to push them selves forward. Cerberus probably knew that the Geth weren't all heretic but still wanted control of them

[Giggles_Manically]

In war morality and honor cant trump firepower and tech sadly.



Or as Bowen in Dragon Heart said "Honor? Honor will neither fill my belly, or shoe my horse."



Operating by a code is all well and good but it wont always save you. Look at James Bond he is brutal and outright evil in many scenes yet he does an good job by stopping villians and madmen in the end. Renegade are not evil as the perception goes just more brutal in their approach to a solution yet they seek the same true ending that paragons do- the death of the reapers.

[nov_pl]

Honestly. So, you're saying that we should kill everyone with brain damage? Tell that to my friend who is recovering from being hit with a motorcycle last year. He can sit up and say "hello" and "yes" now. Would it been better to have killed him? Furthermore, someone with autism is not the same as someone in a persistent coma state. How can you even think that those two things are in any way related? All you have to do is look at someone with autism to know that they are not in a coma. Some of my friends are those "vegetable" types that you describe, and they are some of the smartest people that I know. Oh noes, parts of their brains are rewired different. Oh noes! 

What if YOU were disabled?

I hope this is post to Costin_Razvan!
I'm not saying that, and I think what he said (that he doesn't feel pity) is horrible.
And yea autistic ppl can do thinks we wouldn't immagine. And the "vegetable types" as well, just look at Stephen Hawkings, he's incredeable.

[Costin_Razvan]

I had a feeling in the back of my mind that Cerberus maybe good but this experiment showed me that they just want to push them selves forward. Cerberus probably knew that the Geth weren't all heretic but still wanted control of them

Did they now? Anyone willing to trust the entire Geth Collective based on what Legion says is incredibly stupid and naive in my eyes and Legion is the only source of information regarding the Geth, so remember that.

What TIM was doing there was trying to find a way to combat the threat, which can ( and I would say would become a grave threat until you meet Legion ), and just remember this. The Ovelord project started before you meet Legion, hell you might even go there before you meet him so....

In war morality and honor cant trump firepower and tech sadly.



Or as Bowen in Dragon Heart said "Honor? Honor will neither fill my belly, or shoe my horse."

Quoted for Truth, there is nothing more to say then this. We are fighting for the very survival of trillions. If I was faced which such odds in reality against an enemy that has killed every living person in cycles that have gone on for millions of years then there is very little in the way of morality that would stop me from fighting them. The Reapers don't have moral qualms and you possessing them is a weakness.

I'm not saying that, and I think what he said (that he doesn't feel pity) is horrible.

Oh, so I am horrible person. Well welcome to reality. I don't care about them, not my problem not my responsibility ( if I had a family member with such a problem then they would be my responsibility but I do not, so I don't care ).

BTW, there are quite a great deal of people on this planet who suffer from a very mild form of autism ( also known as Pervasive Developmental Disorder, or PDD ) and most don't even know they have it. Very few people treat them in a special way.

Archer has my respect for taking care of his brother despite David's disabilities and he is the kind of person I can respect, because he is willing to sacrifice those he holds dear to achieve victory that would save millions of lives and I would do the exact same thing, and in fact if many people died because of my reluctance then I would never forgive myself for being a weak willed person.

Yes, what Archer did was idiotic, and I hold that against him, but I do not think he is a criminal for sacrificing his "brother's happiness." to try and achieve victory over the Geth and just remember while David was not willing to merge with the VI, he volunteered for every other experiment.

And yea autistic ppl can do thinks we wouldn't immagine. And the "vegetable types" as well, just look at Stephen Hawkings, he's incredible.

It was an expression, not saying that autistic people are in a vegetative state, that meant that I consider them useless ( or less then useful compared to a normal person depending on the severity of their condition ) to society at large. Steven Hawking ( to use your example ) is productive member, but his disease does not impair him from thinking straight. ( which really is all that matters in his field of study ).

Yes, there are some very successful autistic people, but those usually have a milder form of autism not a severe one.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:31 .

[Kitteh303]

I free him or let Archer keep him based on if my game is paragon or renegade. My personal views are all over the spectrum so if I based every decision on what I personally felt, I'd end up as a paragade or something and not have any charm or intimidate options.



It's not like the renegade option is pure evil. You still reprimand Archer for treating his brother like a lab rat.

[Heimdall]

I freed him



forgive my paragon bleeding heart but I freed him

[Giggles_Manically]

The problem to me is that I believe Freedom of Choice trumps all and David didnt choose the experiment willingly.

If someone willingy went in I would let them stay, but the second someone wanted out I would let them. Reading On Liberty can change your outlook on a lot of things, trust me. 2 out of eight sheperds left him there but one is pro human, and the other is an uber Spetznas whatever it takes bloke (who scares me).