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Overlord - Final Choice *SPOILERS*


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#201
Neuzhelin

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Plenty of people are exceptional. Do you honestly believe that means unduplicatable? Do you honestly believe Cerberus won't put other people through the process to try and find out?

Since this project was Cerberus's deep level of understanding of the Geth, it's almost certain they won't let it die after they found demonstratable results. There are certainly types of understanding that Legion and the Geth will never willingly allow other races to have, let alone give to them.


It is much more simple. By shutting down the project you

a) Drasticly reduce the possible funding, since the Cerberus rescources are not unlimited
B) Present TIM with the dangers and now have the Alliance (Kahlee Sanders that will deffinatly do something)  in it too
c) Indirectly encourage TIM to work on other more likely to succeed projects, such as the human-reaper hybrid instead of searching the galaxy for an autistic geth communicating savant like searching the haystack for a needle.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 17 juin 2010 - 10:32 .


#202
Dean_the_Young

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Neuzhelin wrote...

Consider;
If I am a psychopath, and I just killed your friends. After I am caught are you truly just going to give me the benefit of a doubt if I said: "The Devil made me do it" as you weigh the option to flip the switch and send 10k volts through my electric chair?

I see nothing wrong with the justification that you can't necessarily trust the queen at her word because mainly you have no idea of what her word is worth. People can be capable liars, why can't a queen be as well?


Irrelevant, as the rachni seperated from the Queen (intelligent) go berserk (unintelligent), also shown in the Cerberus facilities later. The Queen, in fact, says they are beyond salvation and encourages you to wipe them out. I'm not giving benefit on the doubt, I make the decision based on the possible outcomes and weighting the risks and the gains and trust matters very little in this case.

The actions of the other Rachni on Noveria actually is irrelevant to his point, since his point never cared about them.

What is not irrelevant is whether the Queen is capable of lying or not. That is completely relevant because it can undermine the basis for believing in what she says in her own defense. Which is really the only grounds for releasing her.

#203
Neuzhelin

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Neuzhelin wrote...

Consider;
If I am a psychopath, and I just killed your friends. After I am caught are you truly just going to give me the benefit of a doubt if I said: "The Devil made me do it" as you weigh the option to flip the switch and send 10k volts through my electric chair?

I see nothing wrong with the justification that you can't necessarily trust the queen at her word because mainly you have no idea of what her word is worth. People can be capable liars, why can't a queen be as well?


Irrelevant, as the rachni seperated from the Queen (intelligent) go berserk (unintelligent), also shown in the Cerberus facilities later. The Queen, in fact, says they are beyond salvation and encourages you to wipe them out. I'm not giving benefit on the doubt, I make the decision based on the possible outcomes and weighting the risks and the gains and trust matters very little in this case.

The actions of the other Rachni on Noveria actually is irrelevant to his point, since his point never cared about them.

What is not irrelevant is whether the Queen is capable of lying or not. That is completely relevant because it can undermine the basis for believing in what she says in her own defense. Which is really the only grounds for releasing her.


As I wrote above: if she lies to you then she wants to preserve the Rachni race. If you release her, she can only preserve her only race by joining forces to fight the Reapers or become harvested like everyone else, hence it is irrelevant whether she lies or not. The intelligence, power and unique abilities of the rachni are worth more then burning the bridge or, probably, destroying a unique sentient race. Please read my above posts, I had explained evert single detail.

#204
LegionN1

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i thought the overlord DLC was extremely boring, it was like the other AI mission on the moon in mass effect 1. no new weapons, no new armour, nothing exciting at all, a waste of 560 microsoft points just so you can shut down a rogue AI, half the time it felt like the missions you scan for on planets which themselves are boring. DLC just doesnt match the quality of the game and its storyline. if you want people to buy this trash at least give them what they pay for. (ie) weapons armour, upgrades, things that are usefull and dont look like the helmets from the equilizer pack, the helmets matched nothing, looked like garbage, i still use the recon hood/ visor and standard armour, because the armour looks and sucks on mas effect 2. how about new hairstyles, armour weapons as DLC instead of poorly made missions which bore you to death and make you want to give up.

#205
UpDownLeftRight

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This thread is not about the Rachni queen. Discuss that in the ME 1 forum section.


LegionN1 wrote...

i thought the overlord DLC was extremely
boring, it was like the other AI mission on the moon in mass effect 1.
no new weapons, no new armour, nothing exciting at all, a waste of 560
microsoft points just so you can shut down a rogue AI, half the time it
felt like the missions you scan for on planets which themselves are
boring. DLC just doesnt match the quality of the game and its storyline.
if you want people to buy this trash at least give them what they pay
for. (ie) weapons armour, upgrades, things that are usefull and dont
look like the helmets from the equilizer pack, the helmets matched
nothing, looked like garbage, i still use the recon hood/ visor and
standard armour, because the armour looks and sucks on mas effect 2. how
about new hairstyles, armour weapons as DLC instead of poorly made
missions which bore you to death and make you want to give up.



Just a little curious. What did you want from this DLC?

Modifié par UpDownLeftRight, 17 juin 2010 - 11:27 .


#206
LegionN1

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oh, and the ONLY DLC which was woth dowloading was KASUMI, the most helpfull teammate and and enjoyable mission, oh and why bother making DLC when you have a problem with your allies when playing( ie) they ignore you orders and engage enemys regardless off your command to stay in cover. it makes insanity that more difficult and frustrating.

#207
LegionN1

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UpDownLeftRight wrote...

This thread is not about the Rachni queen. Discuss that in the ME 1 forum section.


LegionN1 wrote...

i thought the overlord DLC was extremely
boring, it was like the other AI mission on the moon in mass effect 1.
no new weapons, no new armour, nothing exciting at all, a waste of 560
microsoft points just so you can shut down a rogue AI, half the time it
felt like the missions you scan for on planets which themselves are
boring. DLC just doesnt match the quality of the game and its storyline.
if you want people to buy this trash at least give them what they pay
for. (ie) weapons armour, upgrades, things that are usefull and dont
look like the helmets from the equilizer pack, the helmets matched
nothing, looked like garbage, i still use the recon hood/ visor and
standard armour, because the armour looks and sucks on mas effect 2. how
about new hairstyles, armour weapons as DLC instead of poorly made
missions which bore you to death and make you want to give up.



Just a little curious. What did you want from this DLC?


what i wanted, well how about a mission that wasnt  extremely dull from start to finish, kasumis mission was one of the best dlc i have played. this was just annoying, no armour, no new tech and just geth and some annoying AI who played with the elevator. how fun. DLC has to be quality, a story that matters to mass effect, has something to do... like why were the collectors taking samples of multiple species in exchange for technology, that would be dlc worth downloading because it would be relevant to the story

#208
Keldon Northwind

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If Cerberus starts up the project again, have one thing in mind: They are a completely inept organisation. They seem to be made up of hare-brained morons and xenophobic muppets who can't string two thoughts together without it blowing up in their faces. The only "good" thing that came out of a Cerberus project was Normandy SR2 and you, and even then you told TIM to stick it where the sun don't shine.



Hell, even Miranda tells TIM to stick it in the end.



Project Overlord was a disaster waiting to happen. Project Zero (Jack) was also a disaster waiting to happen, even Miranda agrees that they went too far.

#209
tmk

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LegionN1 wrote...
DLC has to be quality, a story that matters to mass effect, has something to do... like why were the collectors taking samples of multiple species in exchange for technology, that would be dlc worth downloading because it would be relevant to the story


Because they were trying to find a race whose DNA could actually be used for reapermaking. It's pretty much self-explained in the game itself, if you think about it.

#210
The Elite Elite

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Neuzhelin wrote...
Selective thinking again, as you pointed out they can build up an insignificant force (only to be wiped out if they suddenly go beserk?) or unite and work together towards survival of the organic life? One of the possibilities is impossible exactly because of their history the analysis of the conversation and unlitately oganic life as a whole vs. machines. The advantage is in having the Rachni prove themselves , the disadvantage is simply not there because the reapers are comming NOW.

No there is one episode that is questionable and that should be judged critically. And yes, finding an intelligent rachni is first hand experience the only other creatures doing it were the Krogan that destroyed the Quuens asap. I am not ignoring anything, I have a decision based on the wish to survive along with other only logical options and judging from the consequences all I did was absolutely right, as I finished ME before I had ME2. Again, you keep going in a circle not presenting or refuting a single argument, forcing me to repeat myself. Reapers, at least, were creating the human reaper in a way preserving, which shows that they actually preserve life in a wicket, not yet understandable way, you destroy a sentient lifeform and, unlike them, you have no real excuse besides speculation based on questionable data which is in the end IRRELEVANT simply because th contradicting self preservation responce you are giving. 


What the Reapers do to sentient life is irrelevent to what I'm talking about. You keep saying that won't the Rachni join forces with the rest of the galaxy to fight the Reapers for that same self-preservation that gets the queen to possible lie to Shep. The problem there is, I have no reason to think the Rachni know of the Reapers as a threat until the Reapers are actually here. So again, if they built up enough to fight the Reapers when they get here, so too could they fight the rest of organic life before they get here. I just don't see any logical reason to believe they'll be of any real help.

Again, contradictive. You talk of their self preservation and all of the sudden AFTER pledging aligience (ME1) after finding out that they acknowledge their past mistakes and are ready to fight the Reapers (ME2) you STILL stick with the story just to stick with it? It seems that you see what you want to, while RPG in the "ignorant in the moment, blinding trusting one sided info of the council" character, as you ignore every single contradictive ellement.


Again, I don't get to find out that they are going to fight the Reapers because that happens in ME2, after you decide to kill her or release her. So again, I have no reason to really trust her supposed pledge of alligence to me. And if you're going to say we shouldn't really trust the council's history because it's one sided, then how can you trust any history book you had to read in school? As you pointed out history is written by the winners, so if we're going to question the council and if the Rachni were truely the bad guys they said they are, then why do you trust our historians that say how evil Hitler was or any other thing from the past?

So you chose to have the blood on her hands SELECTIVLY being critical on the minor issues ignoring the major ones because of your insecurities? If there is any organisation I find hard to reply on in ME it is the council and I am very sceptical of them, therefore relying on my own judgements.


I'd love to rely on myself and my own judgements but again, all I have is the history of the Rachni given to me by the council. I have nothing else to go on. Just because I distrust the council, doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly believe nothing they say. I'm not going to ignore the information that was given to me and just let the queen go because the council might have been wrong or less than accurate in their discription of the Rachni. In the end I trust the council more than I trust the Rachni queen.

Irrelevant. Just because one civilization can build roads (say reapers) and the other one later is able to do it too (protheans), you can't call it Reaper tech. They had their own scientists DEVELOPING to CREATE not DEVELOPING to USE as every one else and here lies the major plot difference.


But it's still developing tech they have already seen in use, which is the Reaper tech. It's not like the just suddenly thought up the idea of a road for the first time ever without seeing and using roads that had already been built themelves. So if we can get our own scientists to study what tech is in the Collector Base whose to say we can't do something similar?

Who said anything about losing? You just end up being as Saren if you act as Saren, which seems logical to me based on your way of playing, thinking of winning at any cost, even when it means losing the grand strategy. Sadly, you could very well be right, as Bioware limits itself to a few extra dialogues on the major decisions (rachni; Feros  did you kill the mind controlled people, btw - situation is similar to the rachni; Wrex; council) and a few messages on the regular ones. I really hope they, however, chose to make the major decisions count in the end.


Well, when you say end up like Saren, I take that to mean losing since he dies. As for the mind-controlled people, I try to save them. Unlike the Rachni, letting the colonists live isn't going to have any possibility of becoming some kind of threat to the galaxy.

However, I get the opposite impression, as you work towards the humanity wiping out other races and providing every single advantage to the leader that although claims not to be a " xenophobe human supremascist" is judging by his action is the definition of it (TIM). We can only judge by the actions not the "noble" ideas when the result is the opposite.


I only provide Cerberus every single advantage because that's all the game lets you do. If I could have given things like the Collector Base to the Alliance instead of TIM, I would have. But again, my Shep would rather the scum human supremascist TIM get the tech, then us losing the tech forever because as long as the tech still exists, it has the potential of being used against the Reapers. If it doesn't exist, then it can't be used for anything. My Shep wants to find some way to defeat the Reapers more than she wants to keep TIM away from power.

Modifié par The Elite Elite, 17 juin 2010 - 02:44 .


#211
LegionN1

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tmk wrote...

LegionN1 wrote...
DLC has to be quality, a story that matters to mass effect, has something to do... like why were the collectors taking samples of multiple species in exchange for technology, that would be dlc worth downloading because it would be relevant to the story


Because they were trying to find a race whose DNA could actually be used for reapermaking. It's pretty much self-explained in the game itself, if you think about it.


maybe so, but id rather play using a mercenarys point of view, no shepard involved, that way, they could flesh out the story a little more, give a little background with the collectors dealings. its always shepards point of view on this and that, how about we get to fly the normandy into battle seems it is a ship, i mean, am i the only one who actually wanted to fly the normandy against the collectors in the omega 4 galactic core relay fight, i mean we buy these ship upgrades and we dont get to fly the ship. i know they help you survive during certain cutscenes, but it would be nice to fly the normandy into some dogfighting aerial battles. who wouldnt find that fun and worth downloading

#212
STG

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I let the poor kid go of course. I certainly wouldn't want sh*t like that be done to me.



What Cerberus decides to do with the project after that is on their hands, not mine.

#213
tmk

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LegionN1 wrote...
maybe so, but id rather play using a mercenarys point of view, no shepard involved, that way, they could flesh out the story a little more, give a little background with the collectors dealings. its always shepards point of view on this and that

Well, yea, this whole game is about you playing as Shepard. Playing as someone else would make sense in a separate Mass Effect-based game, but in a ME2 DLC it would make no sense.

how about we get to fly the normandy into battle seems it is a ship, i mean, am i the only one who actually wanted to fly the normandy against the collectors in the omega 4 galactic core relay fight, i mean we buy these ship upgrades and we dont get to fly the ship. i know they help you survive during certain cutscenes, but it would be nice to fly the normandy into some dogfighting aerial battles. who wouldnt find that fun and worth downloading

Yea, you're pretty much the only one. Again, you're basically proposing to add a whole another game from a completely different genre. Many people were even annoyed by having to drive the Mako in the first game, doubt they'd appreciate having to fly a spaceship as well.

#214
Malysoun

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First, let me note that I only just recently started the download of the DLC due to being busy with work and other things, and I've already spoiled things for myself by reading this thread.



I keep seeing the people trying to justify leaving him there. Arguments about whether or not you have Legion with you are moot anyhow. When you get right down to it, the goal of the project is slavery.



To take a group of sentient beings and force them to fight in your armies with no respect for their own wishes.



You can try the argument about just machines, but so are we. The heart is a pump, the nervous system a network. We're made out of different substances but we're machines all the same.



As to the argument about the Rachni, the queen asks me to end the suffering of her mindless children who cannot be fixed and will cause untold harm and destruction (the hot labs neutron purge group). Perhaps you never investigated enough to get that dialogue, but it doesn't sound self-serving to me. And makes it more likely that she's telling the truth (without metagaming the Asari of ME2).

Perhaps she was evil, plans on dominating the galaxy later and doesn't care for her children. But it's a calculated risk that she's being honest, and you're preserving culture and knowledge which may include technology far different from what everyone else has.

#215
Madman123456

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I loved the writing here. Well, the Premise is that yet another Cerberus Cell screwed up because of stupidity. Again. Besides the Lazarus Project and the Protection of Miranda's Sister (which slowed down her Father quite a bit at least, so not a complete Failure there) is there any Project of any Cell that isn't a Failure?

I'll do my best in imitating TIM here; i'd love to see the following Dialogue:



Cerberus Cell Head: "We will need more time for Project 'Fenix', in which we attempt to utilize Mass Effect Fields to have Chest high Walls rise up from the Ground."

TIM: *exhales smoke* "You are well aware of the Time Pressure here. And i don't think i need to tell you that my Patience is wearing thin by now."

Cerberus Cell Head: "Of course Sir, but it is within my duties to use extreme caution in these Matter and i can not account for anything that goes wrong if we attempt Field Tests in this Stage of Development. If rushed, this Project may turn into a complete Failure, like the Rachni Project, the thorian Creeper thingy, Subject Zero, Project Overlord or even Project "give the Illusive Man non glowing Eye Implants". Rushing this Project is basically asking for another Failure!"



TIM: *looks at several Monitors* "Astounding...apparently, you are right, but only because Cerberus is full of overambitious morons. I'll set up new deadlines for your Projects right now, you'll get the time you asked for. But if your work is anything other then Complete Success, i'll tell Shepard that your Skull contains Implants with Information about how to further increase Biotic- and tech Damage!"





Well, i freed the Kid. Not because i'm a very good Guy who can stand the Suffering of Innocent, but rather because i'm quite sure that if allowed to continue, this Project would yield yet another abysmal Failure by Cerberus.

If the People in Cerberus where a bit more competent, i'd still free David because this is a Project which Goal it is to take control over a Race of sentient Beings. The Humans may not be as bad as the Reapers, but they are learning.

And that is if that Project is a success, otherwise the Geth may very well see the Humans as a major Threat which will, if allowed to exist further, very well destroy or enslave them all.





I do think the Illusive Man was being rather "human" in his email; i was thinking that he'd send me something like "by freeing this one man, you have potentially doomed millions!" or something. like that. I did not see him write anything like "understandable" and was rather surprised at that.

#216
nremies1

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My primarily renegade Shep cut the poor guy down and sent him off to Grissom station or whatever. David was totally innocent and what was happening to him was unacceptable. If she had the choice my Shep would have summarily executed Gavin...she'll murder every scumbag merc in the galaxy and do horrible things to people who deserve it, but innocents are not to be touched.

#217
ResidentNoob

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Of course I let the kid go. It's yet another Cerberus mess that we've got to clean up, but this one is significantly more warped than any of the others. We've got a Cerberus scientist who forced his own autistic brother to undergo an absolutely horrific experiment. (For those of you who don't know that Archer forced David to do it, if you pick the neutral option when Archer runs into the room, Archer tells you that if he'd told you that he'd forced David to do it, you'd have 'shut him down'.)

And boy, was David f*cked up.:crying: Seeing him like that was unbelieveably heart-wrenching, especially with the music involved. This DLC seems to have been made just to show the player just how evil Cerberus truly is. I don't understand how anyone could possibly be in favour of leaving him there, because this is just sick and wrong on so many levels, it's unbelieveable.:?

Also, thanks to this DLC, I shall never be able to forget the square root of 912.04.
Because it all seemed harmless...:crying:

#218
CroGamer002

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Wrexdot wrote...

Of course i left him. There are more important things than one human.


Dude, if you have Legion and you brainwashed or killed Heretics at base, keeping him to Cerberus is just pointless.

#219
CroGamer002

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Jorina Leto wrote...

I freed David. And I will destroy Cerberus and kill TIM.


I won't kill TIM, I'll just hook him up on that thing just for fun. :devil:

#220
HULK96

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ResidentNoob wrote...

Of course I let the kid go. It's yet another Cerberus mess that we've got to clean up, but this one is significantly more warped than any of the others. We've got a Cerberus scientist who forced his own autistic brother to undergo an absolutely horrific experiment. (For those of you who don't know that Archer forced David to do it, if you pick the neutral option when Archer runs into the room, Archer tells you that if he'd told you that he'd forced David to do it, you'd have 'shut him down'.)

And boy, was David f*cked up.:crying: Seeing him like that was unbelieveably heart-wrenching, especially with the music involved. This DLC seems to have been made just to show the player just how evil Cerberus truly is. I don't understand how anyone could possibly be in favour of leaving him there, because this is just sick and wrong on so many levels, it's unbelieveable.:?

Also, thanks to this DLC, I shall never be able to forget the square root of 912.04.
Because it all seemed harmless...:crying:




BW mentioned a few times that the next dlc's for ME2 would be filling the gaps between ME2 & ME3. Yes, this mission shows how evil cerberus really is, which means that in ME3, Cerberus might be one of your enemies if you are a paragon shep. Sorry that this is off topic.Image IPB

#221
Lord_Tirian

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Madman123456 wrote...

And that is if that Project is a success, otherwise the Geth may very well see the Humans as a major Threat which will, if allowed to exist further, very well destroy or enslave them all.

Even if the project is a complete success, even if the Geth were omnicidal kill-bots (which was always a possibility before meeting Legion)... it would still only mean that TIM just got his hands on the control switches for the Geth.

And that is just very, very bad: either it goes wrong again and we get Quarians 2.0 for humanity or we get TIM, high lord of omnicidal killbots.

#222
Steel Dancer

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Only playthrough I've done it with so far is with my Ruthless, pro-Cerberus FShep who left him in there.

She also rewrote the Heretics to rejoin the Geth so she had more of a force to fight the Reapers. With David left in there she now has a back up plan in case the Geth turn out not to be as much use to her as she wants them to be.

...

I'm actually starting to not like this particular Shepard. She scares me. Image IPB

#223
nikki191

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i loved the dlc, very well written, and yes like many it wasnt a choice for me in leaving him there. i keep thinking back to the comment "cerberus isnt as evil as everyone thinks" um yes they are, no TIM didnt know all the details, would he of shut the project down if it had results with david had of been positive? not a chance from the final email you recieve.



i did this dlc as my first mission in the game even before omega in this run through, in all honesty if my shepard after this mission had been given a choice she would be saying "screw you tim, and screw you cerberus"



to me cerberus has at best proven themselves to be misguided and incompetent with no ethics and no oversight and at worst a vile terrorist organisation that cannot be trusted, TIM needs to be spaced

#224
dan107

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What I don't understand is why you punch Archer in the renegade option. Essentially you're saying that this experiment, while terrible, is worth the price so you'll let him continue, but then you punch him just for kicks? What's the point of that?

Also, all the options, including the renegade, portrayed Shepard as absolutely horrified by what he saw. I don't appreciate having emotion forced on me like that. Where's the cool-headed, "Oh well, sh*t happens. Better luck next time, chap." option?

Modifié par dan107, 17 juin 2010 - 09:40 .


#225
dreman9999

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LegionN1 wrote...

UpDownLeftRight wrote...

This thread is not about the Rachni queen. Discuss that in the ME 1 forum section.


LegionN1 wrote...

i thought the overlord DLC was extremely
boring, it was like the other AI mission on the moon in mass effect 1.
no new weapons, no new armour, nothing exciting at all, a waste of 560
microsoft points just so you can shut down a rogue AI, half the time it
felt like the missions you scan for on planets which themselves are
boring. DLC just doesnt match the quality of the game and its storyline.
if you want people to buy this trash at least give them what they pay
for. (ie) weapons armour, upgrades, things that are usefull and dont
look like the helmets from the equilizer pack, the helmets matched
nothing, looked like garbage, i still use the recon hood/ visor and
standard armour, because the armour looks and sucks on mas effect 2. how
about new hairstyles, armour weapons as DLC instead of poorly made
missions which bore you to death and make you want to give up.



Just a little curious. What did you want from this DLC?


what i wanted, well how about a mission that wasnt  extremely dull from start to finish, kasumis mission was one of the best dlc i have played. this was just annoying, no armour, no new tech and just geth and some annoying AI who played with the elevator. how fun. DLC has to be quality, a story that matters to mass effect, has something to do... like why were the collectors taking samples of multiple species in exchange for technology, that would be dlc worth downloading because it would be relevant to the story

........What setting did you play this on ? Because it was not boring  with so many geth shoved down your throut. And the story was deep and well written.
Also, your quetion on what the collecters were doing with the other species sample has been well over anwsered. Heck, did you even beat the game because after it their no more collecters left
And