83 réponses à ce sujet

[jkstexas2001]

There is some circular device implanted in his brain. It would have been easy for TIM to put a kill switch in his brain and NOT TELL HIM about it unless he was about to seriously go off the reservation (as in blow up the collector base). By keeping it secret, a last resort, TIM could have preserved who he was unless he really did something against his wishes.

[Pacifien]

Based on Miranda's comments about a control chip (wonder how that would have worked), I doubt the Illusive Man put a kill switch in Shepard's brain. I think the Lazarus Project resorted to cybernetics when the situation left them with no other choice, but tried to keep as much of Shepard as original and organic as possible. I just happen to think that there wasn't much they were able to salvage.

That's not to say he's, like, 90% cybernetic. Just that he has more cybernetics than you'll likely find in another human or other organic species. Save those being used in horrifying experiments maybe.

[jkstexas2001]

Ignoring suspension of disbelief a moment - there is NO way they could bring back his memories. Even using his DNA to reconstruct his body and his brain - it would have been a blank slate. He was basically a cinder when they started and they had to start from scratch.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I would not think it beyond TIM to have Wilson install some sort of fail safe (whether that be a control chip, a kill switch, a pain inducing device or something completely else) into Shepard, only to set up the events at the beginning of the game to have Wilson killed and any evidence destroyed.

[Pacifien]

jkstexas2001 wrote...
Ignoring suspension of disbelief a moment - there is NO way they could bring back his memories. Even using his DNA to reconstruct his body and his brain - it would have been a blank slate. He was basically a cinder when they started and they had to start from scratch.

The only way I could see someone being able to recreate memories is if they have the brain perfectly mapped along with its electrical impulses. I'm not even going to speculate where they might be on such capabilities.

However, they seem to have developed a way to recreate memories via hardware, such as Kasumi's greybox, the interface used for the braindead President Huerta, or the quarians old method of storing their ancestors' memories. Though such storage probably has to take place while the brain is still functioning and not after it has already ceased.

[thepiebaker]

i haven't seen any mention to state wither shep did or did not have a greybox so it might have been a possiblility that it was added as part of him joining the alliance military. the military could tap into it and use it just like they would a helmet cam. the greybox didn't replace the brain it was just attached to it and downloaded data.



but then why wouldn't the council just look at sheps greybox for data on the reapers and vigil?

[Pacifien]

I believe the codex for the greyboxes does mention they are illegal or borderline legal. It is an implant and its malfunction leads to brain damage, which might account for why they aren't in wide use.

But I can believe the Alliance military requiring a full in-depth brain scan as part of some medical exam. And I think there'd definitely be in-depth brain scans if Shepard were a biotic.

[The Grey Ranger]

Another thing to consider is any biotic Shepard was already part cyborg. Human biotics have to have implants. I also would be suprised if most alliance soldiers didn't some sort of cybernetic implants (ala the haptic adaptive interface codex entry). This would account for the whole no helmet shep still able to talk on the radio.

[Homebound]

Shepard is not a clone/robot/terminator/reaper/etc. He is Shepard. That was the whole point of Project Lazarus. While there's no doubt that Shepard has been mechanically enhanced, (the cut-scene where Shepard is being operated on you see various mechanical things being drilled on to his skeleton) Bioware has made it plain and simple from the start that Shepard IS Shepard.

Modifié par Just_mike, 17 juin 2010 - 07:55 .

[Foolsfolly]

Of course Shepard's Shepard! But this is sci-fi and a cyborg is also still human in sci-fi. It's a classic trope. In fact, I'm surprised there aren't more cyborgs in Mass Effect. Just because parts (and maybe most of his muscles) are synthetic doesn't make him not Shepard. Bloody Luke Skywalker became a cyborg when he got a cybernetic hand.

[DaBigDragon]

Shepard's eyes are cybernetic. That's why David was able to take over your vision in Overlord.

[tmk]

Foolsfolly wrote...
And frankly, I'd almost rather Shepard be an android or a Ghost in the Shell style cyborg with implanted memories over "Shepard can survive reentry and we have tech that can reanimate two year old dead flesh."

GitS-style cyborg still had her brain (the only thing that was her own, in fact). Which is the biggest problem with Shepard's reanimation - you can clone tissues or what not, but there's no way her brain could survive suffocation+reentry+ground impact+subsequent freezing in a salvageable state.

But Shepard being an android couldn't happen without what is essentially AI technology. Graybox can provide memories, but you'd need a platform for a full-fledged personality to "run" on. Of course in ME universe it seems that any sufficiently complicated software eventually achieves not only sapience, but somehow also sentience and self-awareness, regardless of whether the hardware was ever designed for that.

[Multifarious Algorithm]

I don't think Shepard is an android, but he's certainly augmented enough that where he ends and computers begin is going to be a very blurry line. The renegade look with his eyes provides the VI being able to mess with his vision like it did, and from the looks of it (and everything else we've seen) it also had a decent run about in his nervous system as well (clearly he probably has implants to restore function along his spinal cord and the like).



I have to think that too an extent it doesn't really matter. David, before he was hooked up, was already working somewhat like a human computer - with Shepard so incredibly modified he's just a lot closer to it.



I do have to wonder though - does the fact the VI was able to hack into his implants mean that he might actually be completely immune to reaper indoctrination - which only appears to work on organics? Might Shepard be machine enough that the process can't actually attack his mind along enough "organic" vectors to corrupt him?

[Foolsfolly]

....maybe, Multifarious Algorithm.



As long as the tech isn't based off of Reaper/Protheian tech then Shepard could be safe from Reapers otherwise ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.



But since Harbinger never once did that in the second game I don't think it's based off of Reaper tech, just good old fashion human-based cybernetic implants.

[tmk]

It would probably be easier for Reapers to just hack Shepard directly in that case. After all, if even a VI can do that...

[darkshadow136]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Yeah, Shepard is a cyborg which is not what Shep was before their death. So Shepard isn't exactly like they were before.

And frankly, I'd almost rather Shepard be an android or a Ghost in the Shell style cyborg with implanted memories over "Shepard can survive reentry and we have tech that can reanimate two year old dead flesh."

Yep after his death Shepard became the new "Six Million Dollar Man". We can repair him make him better, stronger and so on. Let's see who reconizes the Nostalgic reference. Seriously though we all know stuff like his eyes, some of his bones and joints were replaced with metal implants. Plus lets not forget they were injecting him with substances to regenerate and amplify stuff like mucsle tissue and such. 

They also made it clear they wanted to bring him back exactly the way he was before his death. The key being his mind and personality had to be the same. But they did say they needed to change their approach when it came to his main body and functions because of the amount of damage that was done to him during his death.

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par darkshadow136, 17 juin 2010 - 02:22 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

They brought back Shepard with his MIND exactly like it was. Not his body. Obviously he didn't have that weird walk before. The only reason the VI was able to "hack" into Shepard was because of the cybernetic eyes that he has. Shepard's eyes are mechanical, obviously. You'd see it if you were playing as a renegade. When he was flying towards the planet and started to catch on fire, his eyes were probably the first things to go. Extremely high temperatures, like the type Shepard was exposed to, will vaporize your eyes, and tongue from what I'm told.



Just because Shepard has a few extra "bits and pieces" doesn't mean he's not the same from ME1. Obviously he remembers everything. He just has some robotic parts that were necessary for his revival. I don't see why people are making such a big deal over this. It's nothing.



-Polite

[kaimanaMM]

m14567 wrote...

 Failing all that I'd have settled for the cook/janitor's insight on what happened.

"Sounds like that VI scrambled your brain like an egg!  If you're gonna spew, spew in this."

*hands Shepard a Dixie Cup*

"I just cleaned the toilets."

[tmk]

m14567 wrote...
Failing all that I'd have settled for the cook/janitor's insight on what happened.

I'm neither a cook nor a janitor, but for what it's worth it seems like the VI hacked Shepard's omni-tool when it "touched" the VI's console. Which apparently allowed it to project some sort of "VR overlay" into Shepard's sensory implants, which causes him to get momentarily disoriented, trip and fall. And when Shepard comes to senses, there's no evidence of him being controlled, so it's not like he gets possessed by Dormin or something...

In fact I think there was even a pre-release interview or something of that effect, which said that Overlord will have a "virtual reality" segment where Shepard's sensory implants will be hacked (i.e. not his brain or graybox or what have you).

[Silver]

Considering which class you play, you have more implants or less implants.
I play a Vanguard, and my guess is, that in order to do all those things like levitating enemies and sending shockwaves towards them, the Alliance had to outfit you with Biotic Implants in the first place.
The only race in the known galaxy not needing any implants (though they are using amps) to wield biotics are the asari, which is due to their highly advanced nervous system.

What Shepard got from cerberus are "just" implants that replace damaged parts of him/her.
So, if there would have been a VI like David in the first game, the same thing that happened during Overlord could have happened then too.

Modifié par silverhammer08, 17 juin 2010 - 03:16 .

[tmk]

PoliteAssasin wrote...Extremely high temperatures, like the type Shepard was exposed to, will vaporize your eyes, and tongue from what I'm told.

You were probably told about those body parts' fluids starting to "boil" in vacuum, but that's because lack of pressure lowers the boiling point. As for reentry temperatures, well, strictly speaking we don't really know the orbital velocity he had. But a reentry from the circular low Earth orbit would vaporize Shepard along with all the armor before his body would even reach the ground (in which case it'd just make a smallish crater).

silverhammer08 wrote...
The only race in the known galaxy not needing any implants (though they are using amps) to wield biotics are the asari, which is due to their highly advanced nervous system.

I thought amps are what you plug into the implants 

[InHarmsWay]

thepiebaker wrote...

i haven't seen any mention to state wither shep did or did not have a greybox so it might have been a possiblility that it was added as part of him joining the alliance military. the military could tap into it and use it just like they would a helmet cam. the greybox didn't replace the brain it was just attached to it and downloaded data.

but then why wouldn't the council just look at sheps greybox for data on the reapers and vigil?

Except that greyboxes are illegal. No Alliance soldier would have one. There is no way they could recreate Shepard's memories from a blank slate. Doing so would give him Shepard's memories, but not his feelings or moralities. Just talk to Grunt. He talks about how he has all these memories from Okeer but doesn't feel anything towards his enemies despite what his memories and knowledge tells him. What I think it that by reactivating the neurons in Shepard's brain, they restored his memories.

[InHarmsWay]

Just_mike wrote...

Shepard is not a clone/robot/terminator/reaper/etc. He is Shepard. That was the whole point of Project Lazarus. While there's no doubt that Shepard has been mechanically enhanced, (the cut-scene where Shepard is being operated on you see various mechanical things being drilled on to his skeleton) Bioware has made it plain and simple from the start that Shepard IS Shepard.

Thank you. No crappy "he's a clone" plot. Just a fully restored Shepard. A cyborg Shepard, but the Shepard with his original mind, body(edit: with cybernetics, still flesh and bones) and soul(moralities and emotions if you're going to be picky).

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 17 juin 2010 - 04:01 .

[Pacifien]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Just because Shepard has a few extra "bits and pieces" doesn't mean he's not the same from ME1. Obviously he remembers everything. He just has some robotic parts that were necessary for his revival. I don't see why people are making such a big deal over this. It's nothing.

I think it's interesting to think about.

I think Shepard does remember quite a few details from before he died, but I wouldn't be surprised if his brain needed cybernetic parts to function as it used to. It's not unheard of, as the Cerberus Daily News had mentioned a similar case and the quarians have done something similar before as well.

And I think it adds to a philosophical debate of how much you can replace a human being and carry the essence of that human being.

Anyway, I would think Cerberus would be able to grow organs to replace any that were too damaged to fix. The toughest element, I think, is recreating the brain. And if they could regrow organs, I wonder why they couldn't regrow organic eyes.

But considering the Illusive Man's own eyes and Miranda's comments about genetic engineering, I suspect the Illusive Man didn't mind any augmentation to Shepard's body. It was Shepard's mind he wanted in its original state.