52 réponses à ce sujet

[Gnoster]

I have completed the game as dualwield warrior and wanted to start a 2H Dwarf Noble Warrior. Dwarf because I have never finished with a dwarf before and 2H because I would like to see that in action. I am running Nightmare level.

So far damage is fine, but my survivability is really bad. The damage I take is way more than a single healer can heal through.

Anyone have any tips? One important note is that I haven't really done more than Lothering and getting Shale (at level 7-8), so maybe I just have to gut it out and get to a higher level.

[Swoo]

I ran into the same problem early on. What I had to do was pretty much make sure I stuck on the tank's target and not pull threat. Later on as you build up stats, talents, and get the gear to 2H tank if you feel it, you can get a bit wilder.



Setting the tank's tactic to Party Member Attacked By--->Melee--->Use Ability--->Taunt, will help a bit as well.

[Elhanan]

For myself, I run Indomitable at all times, and place enough pts into WILL to utilize all the active talents; ca.25 pts at 20th. I place the same into DEX to avoid getting hit. The rest goes into STR. However, this does not appear to be the general POV, as most say just STR, but I live to be different. I also use the respec mod, as it helps prevent reloads and replays.



Wear the best armor you can find, but try and not to spend gold on sets that you may only use temporarily. Plenty will drop that should fit your budget. If you have DLC, get Warden Commander set or Cailan's armor after you get Shale, then you can upgrade later after 17th. I also suggest placing at least one Hale rune into your blade; helps a little.



Champion seems to be a good spec for the 2H, allowing another AOE ability and buffing effect for your party.

[Last Darkness]

Twohander is rough until later in the game, and especialy so on nightmare. The gist is twohand sucks until you can get a higher attack score so you dont miss and get enough abilitys that you can skill spam. Twohand is all about skill spaming for any kind of resonable dps as if you just auto attack every other character in the game will out dps you I swear lol. Also dont lead in with your two hand character use your tank then switch to manual contol of your warden soo all the initial malice is on the tank as it should be.

Make sure you grab precise strikeing and indomitable and those should be on all the time.

The sunders are you best dps ability till later so try and get those first. Having armor/weapons that have more +stamina helps a ton. I prefer Executioners helm with warden commander armor and chasind great maul/nugcrush so you have around +175 extra stamina to spam through.



But in all honesty the str tank build for a sword and shield tank does practicaly the same damage and has higher survivability.(26 dex, all other points in Str)



As for class combos Champion matches up really well but isnt 100% nessasary. The Cookie Cutter build is Champion/Reaver but other builds are viable. Champion/Templar has high survivability. Berserker is allright but not nearly as good as it is with duel wield or sword and shield since it adds more damage for them since they attack faster. Berserk adds +8 damage per swing to any weapon so the faster the weapon the better.



Basic suggestion is put all your points into Str every level until 60 then if you want to put some in will that would be ok. The magic number for str is 60 thats where you really see the damage difference. But if you take my advice for gear you wont ever have to care about willpower.

Skills make sure to get precise striking, indomitable, and at least mighty blow, sunder arms and pummel at least intialy. dont use powerful swing until you have a better attack score.

Pickup Champion class and get the whole tree of skill for it. This will give you a party buff that increases all your attack and defense scores. The other is warcray which will debuff all enemies around you attack score(chance to hit) and knock them down, very useful. Grab Reaver as your second spec and get the first two abilitys. Devour is a ok heal from corpses and can be used to exploit bodies to force the chance to loot but teh real gem is frisghtening appearence as this is a str based single target long duration stun, very useful. The latter two abilitys are questionable depending on your play style. Blood frenzy is useless for a twohander warrior because it adds +1 damage for every 10% health you are below your max but Aura of pain can do huge amount of damage over time in exchange for grabbing malice and damageing yourself.



Getting a good twohand weapon should be your first priority.

The easiest I can think of is frm the pranks DLC "Butterfly Sword" you can give sten then equip it as it has good stats and a attack boost. The other options are more dificult, Yusaris is in the circle tower, Ageless in orzamar and Starfang in wardens keep. I HIGHLY suggest going to return to ostagar to get Nugcrusher fastest though as thats easily the best maul in the game arguably.

[Gnoster]

Some great advice guys - thank you very much.



I am actually running my dwarf as a sword and shield warrior at the moment in order to gain survivability. So far I am liking it, so maybe one should just stay that way. But 2-hander must be tried at some point :-)

[Elhanan]

If you can use the Respec mod, starting as S&S may only be a temp setback....

[Gnoster]

I do use the respec mod as I like the options of changing during the game instead of committing from the start, and ye I am thinking of trying out the 2-hander spec once I get the items Last Darkness mentioned

[Elhanan]

I am using Starfang for all of DAO, and have the fancy Chasind Maul sold by Gorim as a replacement weapon after the Archdemon goes *BOOM*.

The main reason for me is that the mauls appearance are rather distracting, and I do not mean combat. Having that massive hammer bouncing away on one's rear armor just hurts to think of it, let alone when it has flaming runes or the like. 2H sword is not much better, as it shreds the ankles when running.

I am glad I tried it, but the Warrior class as a whole is not as fun as Rogue or Mage for me.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

Last Darkness pretty much hit it all IMO.

[beancounter501]

Last Darkness wrote...
Snip

Sorry, have to disagree with a lot of that advice.  I have never had a problem with any 2 Hand Warrior at really any level. 

Early levels - before beating your first treaty, leave off Indomitable until you have blown half your stamina in a battle.  You should go Sunder Arms, Mighty Blow, then turn on Indomitable.  It is Free Stamina.  The animation may seem long, but as soon as the buff icon appears on your bar, move your character to break the animation and save some time.

The big priorities for me are in order: Sunder Arms, Pommel Strike, Mighty Blow, Indomitable, Stunning Blows, 2 Hand Sweep (Must get at level 10!), Sunder Armors (Usually get at 11), Death Blow (Must get at level 12!).  I can not emphasive Death Blow enough.  Anyone who recommends putting a lot of points into Will must have never priortized Death Blow.  It solves all of your stamina problems.

After that you are golden.  Destroyer and Critical Stirike are completely optional.  I usually do not bother with them until I have filled out the Spec trees.

And skip every Sustain ability except Indomitable until you get Death Blow.  Really, a two hand warrior dmg is all in Talent Spam.  If you are sitting there Auto Attacking with no stamina then you are doing something wrong.

And ALWAYS lead with your two hand warrior once he gets sweep.  The rest of the group will love going into a battle with the majority of the baddies  missing a ton of health and sitting on there butt from the knockdown.  Never lead with a tank unless the rest of your party stinks at melee.

And comparing a str based S&S vs a 2 Hand.  Ehh, not even close.  Go look at some of the numbers I have been posting from my four warrior party.  The S&S has NEVER beat either of the 2 Hand Warriors in dmg.  Or even come close.  And that is having some top end gear.  Now the S&S was still very tough, but when it comes to Dmg - nahhh. 

Modifié par beancounter501, 18 juin 2010 - 01:48 .

[Yrkoon]

Last Darkness wrote...
. I HIGHLY suggest going to return to ostagar to get Nugcrusher fastest though as thats easily the best maul in the game arguably.

Easily the best Maul in the game arguably?

Contradictions aside, it's not nearly the best.  In fact it's not even that great.    It's got 3  propterties total.   One of them that doesn't work at all  ('chance to stun'),  and another that a two-handed warrior doesn't need (+4 to Dexterity).

It's good for its +100 stamina boost,  But that's all it has to offer.   most intelligent gamers will gladly take Chasind Great Maul's +75 stamina boost instead, especially since  that maul also   gives  a) +5 damage,  +2.5 armor penetration and c) .5 stamina regeneration.

That said, it is a good weapon to get early, yes, and it will do the job until  Chasind Great Maul  or Starfang become avaliable.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 juin 2010 - 02:41 .

[Last Darkness]

beancounter501 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...
Snip

Sorry, have to disagree with a lot of that advice.  I have never had a problem with any 2 Hand Warrior at really any level. 

Early levels - before beating your first treaty, leave off Indomitable until you have blown half your stamina in a battle.  You should go Sunder Arms, Mighty Blow, then turn on Indomitable.  It is Free Stamina.  The animation may seem long, but as soon as the buff icon appears on your bar, move your character to break the animation and save some time.

The problem with that statment is two fold, first not everyone likes to micromanage all their abilities 100% of the time and the second is most enemies begin using their knockdown or stun attacks as their first moves. Whats the point of running into combat and getting knockdown/stunned so you spam a couple more abilitys then turn on Indomitable after youve been stuned and their abilities are on cooldown?
You sound like you have extensive experince plaing a twohander but your making the assumption other people have the same hands on experiance as you. OP here hasnt ever played two hander at all so dosnt have that experince so a easy no hassle setup would be best to introduce him and he can later change his character as he understands it more.

Yrkoon wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...
. I
HIGHLY suggest going to return to ostagar to get Nugcrusher fastest
though as thats easily the best maul in the game arguably.

Easily
the best Maul in the game arguably?

Contradictions aside, it's
not nearly the best.  In fact it's not even that great.    It's got 3 
propterties total.   One of them that doesn't work at all  ('chance
to stun'),  and another that a two-handed warrior doesn't need (+4 to
Dexterity).

It's good for its +100 stamina boost,  But that's all
it has to offer.   most intelligent gamers will gladly take Chasind
Great Maul's +75 stamina boost instead, especially since  that maul
also   gives  a) +5 damage,  +2.5 armor penetration and c) .5 stamina
regeneration.

That said, it is a good weapon to get early, yes,
and it will do the job until  Chasind Great Maul  or Starfang become
avaliable.

Argueably as stated, Chasind great maul is the best but you dont have access to that until two or three treaty quests are complete while you can get nugcrusher right after Lothering. Starfang is excellent I agree and can be obtained nearly as soon. While having the highest damage rating in the entire game(correct me if im wroung) I preffered the Nugcrusher and Chaisinds mauls for the bonus stamina to allow for alot more skill spamming. Since when your out of Stam Starfangs not that great to just auto attack with unless you wanna use Stamina pots often.

@Gnoster
Try this Executioners Helm+Warden Commander Boots+Blood Dragon plate. Intialy can stack alot of good bonuses for armor and grab your choice of weapon.

@Beancounter501
While twohander does but out alot of high damage hits, ive seen almost as high numbers from certain sword and shield builds and ive seen way more dps from a certain duel wield warrior build.
To each their own though, play what you like.

[Gnoster]

Last Darkness wrote...
@Gnoster
Try this Executioners Helm+Warden Commander Boots+Blood Dragon plate. Intialy can stack alot of good bonuses for armor and grab your choice of weapon.

Thank you for all the advice, really helps a lot

[Yrkoon]

Last Darkness wrote...

Easily  the best Maul in the game arguably?

Contradictions aside, it's not nearly the best.  In fact it's not even that great.    It's got 3 
propterties total.   One of them that doesn't work at all  ('chance
to stun'),  and another that a two-handed warrior doesn't need (+4 to
Dexterity).

It's good for its +100 stamina boost,  But that's all
it has to offer.   most intelligent gamers will gladly take Chasind
Great Maul's +75 stamina boost instead, especially since  that maul
also   gives  a) +5 damage,  +2.5 armor penetration and c) .5 stamina
regeneration.

That said, it is a good weapon to get early, yes,
and it will do the job until  Chasind Great Maul  or Starfang become
avaliable.

Argueably as stated, Chasind great maul is the best but you dont have access to that until two or three treaty quests are complete while you can get nugcrusher right after Lothering.

Getting Nugcrusher  right  after  Lothering will  make it tier 5.  Which means it'll be even less powerful.   Its base damage will be a whopping 12.60,    and its armor penetration will only be 11.20...  suddenly making it comperable to Yusaris and Ageless in  power...

@Beancounter501
While twohander does but out alot of high damage hits, ive seen almost as high numbers from certain sword and shield builds . 

No offense, but   considering  some of the advice you've posted on this thread, including the weapon you consider "easily the best in the game for a 2-hander", that's not really a   surprizing claim you're making here.     Anyone can gimp their two hander enough so that  their damage output becomes almost the same as a sword & shielder's.

But  we're talking about optimal builds.  when both are built optimally, there IS no comparsion in the damage-per-swing arena.   2-handers generally do 2x as much damage  per hit.  Which is why Bioware made them slower.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 juin 2010 - 10:42 .

[beancounter501]

I think Star Fang is the best weapon you can get early. Pick it up right out of Lothering. Comes with some massive attack bonus as well. Plus you get Warden's Commander Armor which is really sweet for a Two hand Warrior. Decent fatigue, + Stamina, Crit Bonus (for Mighty Blow) and high AR. Using Mauls does not pay off until your strength starts to hit that 60 range. Otherwise the higher base dmg from Two hand Swords will outweigh the extra strength mod.





@Yrkoon - I always laugh when I read your sig.

[Last Darkness]

@Yrkoon

You can always upgrade as you go along. I find it quite useful to sell/store items then zone back to upgrade their tier.



I belive we both have two hand warriors with close to or higher in your case I belive 100 str.

I agree per hit two hand does more, im talking about DPS in the damage over time stretch not per strike. I didnt say sword did more or less but sword and shield at 90+ str and all the talents does CLOSE to the same damage. Its not a bad alternative plus has higher armor and defense which is nice. But there is a build ive seen that horribly puts twohanders to shame for a duel wield warrior in the damage deparment over time. I wish I had a link but its basicaly as much gear for more damage and crit rate as you can get, berserker+reaver spec. Running good poison, momentum+blood thirst (hits the +50% attack speed cap) aura of pain, blood frenzy, with like precise striking or perfect striking. I think it sit around a 40% crit rate with all the buffs. And of course +5 damage runes stacked in the weapons. Its really impressive but suicidal lol my brother plays it.

[beancounter501]

^^ I have come to firmly believe that raw DPS is not nearly as important as people think in this game. Controlling the field and burst dmg is where it is at. There is NEVER a single situation in the game where you can just sit there and auto attack continuously for any length of time. The enemy only has so much health, they will stun you, knock you back(Dragon), do grabs - the list goes on. Plus when you blow out some wimpy white mob you still have to move around to get the next guy.



When it comes to warriors it is far to better to kill something quick through talents then try and build some auto attack warrior. Plus it is a lot funner. That and there is only so much available dmg in any given encounter - the guy getting the first kill is usually the character leading the pack in dmg. Lot more important variables then raw DPS calculations. Just my two cents after playing a party with 2 Two Hand Warriors, a Dual Weld Warrior and a str based S&S.

[Last Darkness]

beancounter501 wrote...

^^ I have come to firmly believe that raw DPS is not nearly as important as people think in this game. Controlling the field and burst dmg is where it is at. There is NEVER a single situation in the game where you can just sit there and auto attack continuously for any length of time. The enemy only has so much health, they will stun you, knock you back(Dragon), do grabs - the list goes on. Plus when you blow out some wimpy white mob you still have to move around to get the next guy.

When it comes to warriors it is far to better to kill something quick through talents then try and build some auto attack warrior. Plus it is a lot funner. That and there is only so much available dmg in any given encounter - the guy getting the first kill is usually the character leading the pack in dmg. Lot more important variables then raw DPS calculations. Just my two cents after playing a party with 2 Two Hand Warriors, a Dual Weld Warrior and a str based S&S.

Ive been thinking about trying the Warden, Sten, Oghren, Alistair/Logaine party sometime myself just to see a fair spread of warriors. Im always worried about crowding when you have more then two melee types though. I also keep seeing people ranting about some crazy warrior archer build that hits in range of like thousands of damage.
My next game im either gonna finaly try arcane warrior or a little more optimaly tweaked duel wield warrior like my brothers build but with all 4 warriors party.

[Yrkoon]

Last Darkness wrote...
 I also keep seeing people ranting about some crazy warrior archer build that hits in range of like thousands of damage.

That  happens in Awakening, once you get the Accuracy sustain.  Doesn't happen in Origins, so it shouldn't be a problem for    any 'experiment' run you do  there

Edit:  I've done one Origins playthrough with a warrior archer.  I'd have to say they're not as easy or intuitive to learn as the other warrior builds.   You run into serious trouble if you play them with the mindset of "leading" the party.  They're the ultimate  support troops.  They're at their best when you hold everyone back, send your mage up to mass paralyze or grease the mobs, then use your archer to scattershot them.  Or when you've already got  a melee warrior  engaging an opponent, then have your archer   take them out from a distance.  

Also, despite other people's complaints that most of the Archery talents take too long to pull off, I didn't find this much of a problem, because again, when you play an archer correctly,   you don't find yourself in  those intense  front-line  situations where  you're trading blows and every second counts.  Instead, you're  back behind your mage,  controlling the battlefield so your melee'rs  can have an easier time.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 juin 2010 - 05:04 .

[Phaelducan]

You can find a lot of good information here on what to do specifically with your 2H Warden to make him /her work better. I'll refrain from adding to that discussion, but what I will say is that on nightmare with a 2H as your main... tactics for your NPC's become pretty important.



I highly recommend getting Morrigan up to Mana Clash right away and setting her tactics to cast it on enemy mages as highest priority. If you can't kill or otherwise neutralize casters right away on NM, expect to eat curse of mortality or crushing prison consistently.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

DON'T pick champion with a two hander because it drains stamina. If anything, I would say pick Templar, Reaver, and/or Berserk because there is no stamina drain. I'm running a Berserker/Reaver on nightmare, and it is rather easy since Alistair's champion buffs help out a lot. Aura of pain is also a really good skill because you sometimes kill an enemy only tiny points away from death to which you can turn Aura of Pain on and off. Also, stay away from any massive armor because enemies will be on you like white on rice. I use heavy armor at the beginning until I can upgrade to Dilligence. If you want the best weapon, use hammers because they give the best damage output, but don't use sunder with hammers. My party is based on full damage output I have: Morrigan, Leliana, Me (two-hander), and Alistair (tank) and we kill anything that moves. I also don't use that quickening spell that Wynne gets (I forgot the name).

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Phaelducan wrote...

You can find a lot of good information here on what to do specifically with your 2H Warden to make him /her work better. I'll refrain from adding to that discussion, but what I will say is that on nightmare with a 2H as your main... tactics for your NPC's become pretty important.

I highly recommend getting Morrigan up to Mana Clash right away and setting her tactics to cast it on enemy mages as highest priority. If you can't kill or otherwise neutralize casters right away on NM, expect to eat curse of mortality or crushing prison consistently.

You can also set Leliana to use arrow of slaying on any mage, if you don't want to use Morrigan that is.

[Last Darkness]

Topic running off track this is for a Solo Twohand Nightmare run without using any healing items.

@Phaelducan

I agree but hes a Templar and sitting on 100% spell resistance.(Plus I think Knight commander armor looks cool)



But I do wanna add a comment to the tactics part of this discussion. When running a "Suicide" type of warrior namly Aura of Pain+Blood Thirst kind of stuff a mage with the spell and tactic setup up like this can work wonders. Ally-Health-less than 10%-cast force field. I have yet to test this but it should be useful.

[Phaelducan]

I don't think he was asking about a solo run... he even mentioned a problem being healed in his first post.



Templar I would agree is the wisest choice for primary spec on a NM run, but redundant mage killing talents are never a bad thing when one bad spell can force a reload.



If you really want to be safe, have either 2 mages and a rogue or 2 rogues and a mage and set all tactics for #1 priority Mana Clash or Arrow of Slaying for mages.



Then keep Scattershot ready in case of Overwhelms, and you shouldn't have to worry about being one-shotted.

[Gnoster]

Well some experience from my current game running a 2handed warrior (dwarf noble).

I haven't followed every single piece of advice given in the forum for the simple reason that I am not necessarily looking to make a 2hander beast, who could solo the game. As long as I do decent damage and otherwise control the field of battle I am satisfied (to each his or her on own goal ofcourse).

Anyway I am atm on level 15 and running through the caverns for the Urn of Sacred Ashes. I am using Starfang mainly, but have Nugcrusher in my bag for fights I know will be lengthy (most fights I have no stamnia problem simply because they die too quickly). For armor I am using Caliain's Armor - I know this goes against what have been written above, but the stats themselves combined with the -25% fatigue is actually quite good - even though I loose out on some stats by doing this. For specializations I chose Champion and Templar, again yes it is less dps, but it is higher battlefield control with knockdowns, which imo is just as good. Also I like that the warden who saves the world if somewhat of champion type of character.

Wynne has joined the party with the first healing spells in both Spirit Healer and the normal healing line (the last 2 spell in those lines sucks imo). And she also has up to Crushing Prison and Mana Clash making her really good healer, support and mage/archer killer. Secondary specialization is Blood Mage (I know it goes against the roleplaying part, but ..meh).

Leliana is also in the party as a rogue archer. She has assassin for Mark of Death (works wonders on bosses) and Bard for the buffs. Ofcourse full lockpicking skills and up to Lethality and then pure archer talents.

Alistair is the group's tank and here I chose to try out the strength tank build, and I have to say, this spec is really  growing on me. The animations of kill shots with a shield is awesome and his damage is quite good. Yes, my dwarf kills faster, but Alistair is near unkillable. I have to try a Sword and Shield warrior run next playthrough, it can work and it is great fun to watch. He is wearing the Juggernaut armor, using Cailian's Arms set, and with carefully chosen amulets and rings, he has more or less 50% resistance in everything.

All in all my own conclusion is that after getting over that pesky start where 2hander really sucks (just my opinion), then it really does do great damage and survivability is not a problem anymore. I do find dualwield more fun personally and I think I'll find sword and shield more fun as well, but again this is purely a personal preference thing pertaining to roleplaying aspects and looks of the animations.

Once again thanks for all the advice given, it has really helped a lot with my experimenting.

Modifié par Gnoster, 20 juin 2010 - 09:24 .