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[hangmans tree]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Alexine wrote...

One other thing I found the Witcher more interesting that DA:O is that it was not very generic (I found the elves and dwarfs lore very typical, elves close to nature and dwarfs living underground). From the polish dev diaries, Witcher 2 will be more based on Slavic mythology, which would be much more interesting in lore and creatures.

For those of us who've grown up with Tolkien fantasy, sure, I'll agree DAO can be quite generic (but also does turn some stereotypes on their head, such as Elves going from tall and free to short and oppressed), but without any real knowledge of Eastern European folklore I can't really say the Witcher isn't generic. For them, it might be quite common - I think someone with better knowledge might be able to correct me.

Not the case. TW and slavic mythology is a fresh air coz even centro-eastern culture is "opressed" by Tolkienish and mangish stereotypical approach. Most tendencies go in that direction. Big chunk of our society probably couldnt distinguish slavic mythology features/creatures/tales. Furthermore, they'd mix polish, russian, lithuanian, ukrainian ant other into one pulp
Not to mention Andersen and Grimm

[Loerwyn]

Boo, Tolkien

Although I suppose you have to blame Nibelungenlied and other European tales for all that.

[hangmans tree]

And yes, we lost a great deal of our culture (I speak for Poland) due to partitions (over a century Poland was wiped from the maps - russification and germanization...), n.a.z.i. (WTF? why is it censored) and russian occupation when all intellectual elite was targeted and extermianted...and then post WWII communism and its opression.

So yea, lots of once was is no more...

Modifié par hangmans tree, 18 juin 2010 - 09:43 .

[hangmans tree]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Boo, Tolkien
Although I suppose you have to blame Nibelungenlied and other European tales for all that.

I'm not against Tolkien or his works - I love em. What irks me is that its being pured into the mold and copied in weak form over and over and over...Until it becomes bleak.

edit: same goes for any other work/setting/art...

Modifié par hangmans tree, 18 juin 2010 - 09:41 .

[PanosSmirnakos]

I loved both rpgs, so it's a tough choice which one I'll play first if their release dates are going to be the same... The Witcher was way darker, atmospheric, original and with superior graphics from Dragon Age (although it used bioware's aurora 2007 engine!). On the other hand, Dragon Age had amazing companions, better voice acting, more dialogue and it's closer to an old school / traditional rpg than Witcher. If Dragon Age 2 won't continue the story of our grey warden, then I'm going to play the Wither 2 first, for sure.

[HoonDing]

Sharpus wrote...]

Compared to Islanders (England, Ireland etc.) or Northerns (Scandinavia) Eastern Europe doesn't have much of a folklore. There are a few myths, stories and some knowledge of old beliefs. It was all banned and destroyed by the time christians came and burned, destroyed and killed everything and everyone that wasn't from christian God. 

Tolkien stated he created LOTR because England lacked its own mythology... and outside of King Arthur & maybe Beowulf, what is there?

[Loerwyn]

We share (or shared) some with the Vikings and other Scandinavian countries I think, but a lot could have been lost when the Celtic tribes were overtaken by the Romans, and then Christianity over that.

Now that you mention it, I think you might be right with that, virumor. There's some food for thought, eh?

[Rzepik2]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Boo, Tolkien
Although I suppose you have to blame Nibelungenlied and other European tales for all that.

But the Witcher is not free of Tolkien's influence, there's A LOT of traditional fantasy in it. The main difference is that it's changing "tolkienish" motives and fairy tales into realistic, grim setting.

[Sharpus]

virumor wrote...

Tolkien stated he created LOTR because England lacked its own mythology... and outside of King Arthur & maybe Beowulf, what is there?

Robin Hood? Also Arthurian legends are epic stories containing many sub legends and plots: The Grail, Camelot, Avalon, Knights of the Round Table, Merlin etc. Of course it was heavilly influenced and twisted by chrisitian church but it survived. It's not as massive as Greek, Egyptian or Chineese mythos but compared to Slavic mythos it's really big piece of background. Slavic have some short stories like King Popiel who was eaten by mices (and thats practically whole story!), we know that there was some god they worship but we only know that he was named Swiatowid but not much else about that deity.

[Sharpus]

Rzepik2 wrote...
But the Witcher is not free of Tolkien's influence, there's A LOT of traditional fantasy in it. The main difference is that it's changing "tolkienish" motives and fairy tales into realistic, grim setting.

Yes, for example the Lady of the Lake is a direct reference to Arthurian legends. Witcher dwarves and elves are not so distant from the overall Tolkien look: dwarves - excellent fighters, blacksmiths and drinkers, elves - proud and old race that think very highly of themselves. In the Witcher it's only more realistic showed what could have happen when somebody great grand father said something bad about someone else great grandmother.

[Loerwyn]

And Tolkien himself took a lot from European mythology and legend and used it as inspiration for Lord of the Rings. One of the more recent Tolkien publications was his translation of a story named the Nibelungenlied, and that story has manifested itself as an opera and also a TV movie/series a few years back named Sword of Xanten (and I love it).

I'm not sure where the myths end and Tolkien begins, though.

[Rzepik2]

Sharpus wrote...

virumor wrote...

Tolkien stated he created LOTR because England lacked its own mythology... and outside of King Arthur & maybe Beowulf, what is there?

Robin Hood? Also Arthurian legends are epic stories containing many sub legends and plots: The Grail, Camelot, Avalon, Knights of the Round Table, Merlin etc. Of course it was heavilly influenced and twisted by chrisitian church but it survived. It's not as massive as Greek, Egyptian or Chineese mythos but compared to Slavic mythos it's really big piece of background. Slavic have some short stories like King Popiel who was eaten by mices (and thats practically whole story!), we know that there was some god they worship but we only know that he was named Swiatowid but not much else about that deity.

It's not that bad.
Slavs still burns/drowns Marzanna/Mora/Morana/Morena/Marena, we know a lot of gods (but we rarely have idea what they were exactly doing), some monsters too.
And traditional vampires originate (most probably) from slavic mythology.
Medieval legends: In Poland we have Wanda - first eurosceptic ever And a dragon! Who else has a proper dragon? European myth about sleeping knights is better in our version, 'cause we basically have a mountain-sized golem just waiting for a proper time to activate (I guess he overslept a bit).

Modifié par Rzepik2, 18 juin 2010 - 03:48 .

[Sharpus]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

And Tolkien himself took a lot from European mythology and legend and used it as inspiration for Lord of the Rings. One of the more recent Tolkien publications was his translation of a story named the Nibelungenlied, and that story has manifested itself as an opera and also a TV movie/series a few years back named Sword of Xanten (and I love it).
I'm not sure where the myths end and Tolkien begins, though.

Wagners Ring of the Nibelungs (Nibelungenlied) Opera was first Tolkien was even accused of rip off but he denied, claiming that only thing in common with Wagner RoN was the Ring itself.

[Sharpus]

Rzepik2 wrote...

It's not that bad.
Slavs still burns/drowns Marzanna/Mora/Morana/Morena/Marena, we know a lot of gods (but we rarely have idea what they were exactly doing), some monsters too.
And traditional vampires originate (most probably) from slavic mythology.
Medieval legends: In Poland we have Wanda - first eurosceptic ever And a dragon! Who else has a proper dragon? European myth about sleeping knights is better in our version, 'cause we basically have a mountain-sized golem just waiting for a proper time to activate (I guess he overslept a bit).

Yes we do cultivate some pagan traditions But there is little background on why we do it. Some of them where even taken by the chrisitians and cultivated as part of christian religion
As I said before, short stories both Wanda and the Dragon stories could fit on A4 sheet.
There are some Slavic mythos left but nothing in comparision to Greek mythos, Arthurian legends or northern Sagas.

[Loerwyn]

Sharpus wrote...
Wagners Ring of the Nibelungs (Nibelungenlied) Opera was first Tolkien was even accused of rip off but he denied, claiming that only thing in common with Wagner RoN was the Ring itself.

Well, I think it's... Hm. Tolkien translated the original Nibelungenlied (This one) before he started work on Lord of the Rings, so I think in some way the legend had to have influenced him. I've not read through his translation, although I do have it, and it's been some time since I read LotR so I can't, personally, say how he was influenced.

EDIT: About the above Dragon point. We do in England, and that's St George and the Dragon. Might be more of a legend, I suppose.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 18 juin 2010 - 04:10 .

[Arbiter Libera]

Rzepik2 wrote...
And a dragon! Who else has a proper dragon?

Surprisingly enough, Asia is incredibly diverse when it comes to dragon myths and legends, even though dragons are funny things because their myths are basically EVERYWHERE in the world, even in places that have had absolutely no known contact with one another. But Europe does remain the main player in that department, mainly due to conflicting elements present there throughout it's history. Although this would all depend on your defintion of a "proper dragon" so, yeah. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dragons_in_mythology_and_folklore

Modifié par Arbiter Libera, 18 juin 2010 - 04:27 .

[AshedMan]

I'll likely play them both. I never finished The Witcher. The one extremely large town was boring and made me quit the two times I tried to play. Dragon Age on the otherhand was absolutely brilliant and I went through every nook and cranny before beating the game.

[Rzepik2]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

EDIT: About the above Dragon point. We do in England, and that's St George and the Dragon. Might be more of a legend, I suppose.

St. George is just the patron saint of England, that's something different. Legend is universal, it's hard to find a certain origin (everybody wants him).
And he slew dragon during crusade, imported dragon does not count

[Rzepik2]

Arbiter Libera wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
And a dragon! Who else has a proper dragon?

Surprisingly enough, Asia is incredibly diverse when it comes to dragon myths and legends, even though dragons are funny things because their myths are basically EVERYWHERE in the world, even in places that have had absolutely no known contact with one another. But Europe does remain the main player in that department, mainly due to conflicting elements present there throughout it's history. Although this would all depend on your defintion of a "proper dragon" so, yeah. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dragons_in_mythology_and_folklore

Okay... that's a lot of dragons. It seems that everyone owns at lest half-decent version. 
My claim dismissed 

Modifié par Rzepik2, 18 juin 2010 - 04:59 .

[Khayness]

The only folklore dragon I can come up with is an old children puppet show dragon "Süsü, the one-headed, good-hearted dragon in the Hungarian puppet series "Süsü, a Sárkány"

He rocks.

[Highdragonslayer]

Those two games wouldn't be able to survive the blizzard advertising swarm on Diablo 3

[Sharpus]

Highdragonslayer wrote...

Those two games wouldn't be able to survive the blizzard advertising swarm on Diablo 3

Yeah and Sims 4. What are you talking about? Different games, different genre and different targets.

[Loerwyn]

I think D3 is going to sell a lot of copies. Personally, I'm unsure as to whether I'm going to buy it as I've never played any Diablo game (yeah, yeah, I know), but Wiedzmin 2 and DA2 are certain buys for me, I think. Well, Wiedzmin 2 is.

But I don't think they're in competition with each other. Wiedzmin 2 is shaping up to be story driven, DA2 is likely going to be party-based tactical and D3 is... hack 'n' slash, right?

[hangmans tree]

Slavic folklore and mythology/creatures/myths are not so a small department as one might belive

You just need to know where to look. And that is the problem, its not common knowledge, there are great tales but they lie in the archives eradicated from conscoiusness by pop culture.



Going back on topic. Both games find me as a target audiance. TW2 is a must buy for me, DAO2 not so sure, but probably too. I imagine BW will improve their system and engine, hopefully get better concept artists and designers. If that'll improve I wont find an excuse to pass it

Somehow I never found it necessary to compare the two "which is a better RPG?". Only factor is my subjective taste in games - not 'which is better' but 'which I like more'.



I'm kind of optimistic, I'd like to see more involving games in the future...richer in content and emotional load, with engaging storyline.

I also hope CDP will go back to the sci-fi FPS shooter-rpg(?) hybrid. It was said to be written by another great polish writer (compared to Lem). It would be nice to see a change in the current - a FPS where story is non linear (perhaps) and comes first. A story driven shooter.. what do you think?

[Twitchmonkey]

I like aspects of The Witcher, but the terrible dialogue and one-dimensional character kept me from playing much. Hopefully they work on this.