48 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

Click Here to skip to the next post if you don't care about the why, you just want to know how to fix it.

As frequently asked questions go, how to maintain both Jack's and Miranda's loyalty during their confrontation has to be right at the top. Some people will have their paragon bar at 100% and not get the option. People often say it's easier to get the paragon option the earlier you do their loyalty quests, but why?

The answer is that it has nothing to do with what your paragon bar shows. It's all about the number of paragon points you've obtained versus how many paragon points have been available to you at the moment of the confrontation.

If you needed to obtain 70% of the paragon points possible, and you've obtained 700 out of 1000 points, you will get the paragon option. But if you obtained 700 out of 1200 points, you have only about 58% of the points possible and you won't meet the requirement to get the paragon option.

One of the Bioware developers explained the system after many people figured the game was bugged after having the paragon bar showing 100% but the option not showing up.

Kim Stolz wrote...

crapmonster13 wrote...
Maybe I was just lucky, but its hard to imagine that people actually actively going the paragon route and have over 90% still have trouble resolving these disputes.

Actually that's very believable.Since so many people want the explanation of how this works I'll tell you. Don't read any further if you don't want it spoiled. There are potential paragon and renegade points throughout the game. When the user arrives in an area (ie: Omega) the game registers every single paragon or renegade decision that can be made and increases the difficulty of the persuade system based on these potential points. If the user collects all of these points (either paragon OR renegade) they break even they can almost never get ahead of the system, you can only keep apace. If the user misses these oppotunities to collect all of the points the game still keeps these points you missed so the player will actually fall behind. If the player falls behind it is very difficult and almost impossible to catch back up because everywhere you go more potential points are being mounted against you and making the persuasions more difficult. So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

What I think a lot of people aren't realizing is that when you import an ME1 save you get a pretty major bonus to the paragon or renegade scale which makes the persuades incredibly easy. then you start an ME2 newgame + and you are working from a clean slate.

Hopefully that explains it well enough for  you.../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png I've talked to the people who made this system and decided on the bonus for starting a newgame+ and the odds of this being changed or made easier are very, very low. If you're confused by the explanation I gave or need some clarification please feel free to PM me. Thanks.

Original post here.
Explanation of how it's a redux of the Virmire decision here.
Explanation of why it's easier to do the renegade option with Jack/Miranda and the paragon option with Legion/Tali here.

And much thanks to Kim Stolz for bothering to explain it at all.

Modifié par Pacifien, 06 juillet 2010 - 04:19 .

[Pacifien]

If you don't get the persuasion option...
1) Reload to a save just prior to doing the second loyalty mission. If you haven't evolved your class passive ability to allow for 100% Paragon/Renegade, retrain your abilities. This will increase your points by 100% of your base amount.

2) Reload to a much earlier save and try to do the loyalty missions sooner.

3) If you're interested in romancing one of them, side with the intended love interest during the argument. Then check out this thread to figure out how you can bring the other one out alive during the suicide mission.

4) After the confrontation, retrain your passive ability for the 100% point boost and then see if you can win one of the loyalties back. Go for maximum paragon/renegade choices from then on out to see if you can meet the persuasion check to regain a loyalty. You still won't be able to romance the person whose loyalty you had to regain.

5) Import a ME1 character who has considerable paragon/renegade points. This allows for leeway in making your paragon/renegade decisions and how they affect your ratio of points gained to points possible.

6) And if none of the above is an option or you don't want to spend the time redoing parts of the game, modifying a saved game with the gibbed save game editor is your best bet: mod the PC or mod the 360.

Modifié par Pacifien, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:33 .

[Pacifien]

Mass Effect 2 Persuasion Guide for Every Option
Ieldra 2 wrote an extremely thorough guide that will help you meet every persuasion check, not just the ones for the squadmate confrontations. *Click Here* to see the guide.

One important link found in that guide that I forgot about is the Mass Effect Wiki Moralty Guide that shows you how many points you'll get for every paragon and renegade decision you make in the game.

[J4N3_M3]

not the best, but at least I finally managed to video capture this solving Miranda-Jack-fight

[Pacifien]

Oh hey, I just realized Jane added the video. Sweet.

[R-F]

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.



Was annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found, also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

[J4N3_M3]

R-F wrote...

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.

Was annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found, also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

there is no difference between Paragon or Renegade. I've solved the conflict almost every time with the same amount of Paragon points as I have Renegade in the video I linked above. It really is a matter of the total percents! Right now I'm on a Paragon PT with an imported Shepard and I will see how that works out when it comes to the cat fight. Will post the video as well, since I got a couple of messages on Youtube from people asking me if it works with Paragon as well and since it does but I don't have any video to show them, it's time to add it.

[Super ._. Shepard]

just have to have a high amount of renegade or paragon points

[J4N3_M3]

Super ._. Shepard wrote...

just have to have a high amount of renegade or paragon points

not correct! 

[didymos1120]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

R-F wrote...

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.

Was annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found, also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

there is no difference between Paragon or Renegade.

Wrong.  This has been confirmed by someone from Bioware:

Kim Stolz wrote...
 So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 août 2010 - 09:55 .

[J4N3_M3]

didymos1120 wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

R-F wrote...

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.

Was annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found, also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

there is no difference between Paragon or Renegade.

Wrong.  This has been confirmed by someone from Bioware:

Kim Stolz wrote...
 So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

that's weird then because it has always worked for me as Paragon as well as as Renegade

Maybe that's because I usually play either FULL paragon or FULL renegade? The only time I failed was on my first PT because I had no idea what I was doing xD 

[The Unfallen]

It is much easier to just max out either Paragon or Renegade. Much much easier. I actually tried it this way and let me say this much, your method screwed me over.

Attention BioWare Users - DO NOT USE THIS METHOD, IT IS CRAP

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and
Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to
resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.



Was
annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found,
also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

^ METHOD IS CRAP

Modifié par That Yellow Bastard, 02 août 2010 - 05:41 .

[Pacifien]

That Yellow Bastard wrote...
It is much easier to just max out either Paragon or Renegade. Much much easier. I actually tried it this way and let me say this much, your method screwed me over.

Attention BioWare Users - DO NOT USE THIS METHOD, IT IS CRAP

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and
Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to
resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.



Was
annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found,
also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

^ METHOD IS CRAP

I have no idea why you think one method is crap considering it sounds like you're both talking about the same thing.

[J4N3_M3]

That Yellow Bastard wrote...

It is much easier to just max out either Paragon or Renegade. Much much easier. I actually tried it this way and let me say this much, your method screwed me over.

Attention BioWare Users - DO NOT USE THIS METHOD, IT IS CRAP

Miranda and Jack are easier to solve with renegade points, and Tali and
Legion are easier to resolve with Paragon. I had to get 100% paragon to
resolve Miranda and Jack, which worked out well for Tali and Legion.



Was
annoying though, had to retrain and follow a few random guides i found,
also ended up reloading Jack's loyalty mission at least a dozen times.

^ METHOD IS CRAP

dude, first, calm down! 
second, save the game before doing the last of either Jack's or Miranda's loyalty mission, therefore, no screw up.
third, if you check my video, you will see, that I solved the fight with the renegade option although my renegade bar wasn't even half full! 

fourth, just watch your language  

@Pacifien: thanks for the link collection by the way.

[jetsiol4]

I sided with Jack just so i could ****** off Miranda.

[J4N3_M3]

A video for the paragon fight solution with an imported Shepard

[upsettingshorts]

Ah reading this thread reminds me why I love PC. It provides a third way. Cheat!

I do it so I can roleplay with freedom.  Having every Persuade/Intimidate option available from the start of the game to the end means I don't have to game the system, and can select whatever option - even neutral ones when such Persuade/Intimidate options are available - I want to see my Shepard go with.  I use a lot of neutral options, and tend to be nice to good, upstanding people, and ruthless and impatient with scum.  Without cheating I'd either have to accept artificial limitations on my character's speech - no one collects Paragon and Renegade points in real life that determine what they're able to say - or metagame by marginalizing unimportant decisions by going against my instinct so that I can unlock choices at a more important time.

Now I figure this post is on topic because the "maintaining loyalty" argument ought to have at least one post endorsing ditching the vanilla system altogether through save game editing for, well, reasons I stated above.  Single player games are fun like that, guilt free "cheatin'."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 août 2010 - 10:19 .

[Pacifien]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Ah reading this thread reminds me why I love PC. It provides a third way. Cheat!

XBox 360 players have that option, too, as the Gibbed Save Game Editor works on both.

[upsettingshorts]

Really? Sweet. Is there a tutorial somewhere? Would like to tell my friend.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

3some?

[FuturePasTimeCE]

well for my shephard it was impossible.

[Rambie]

I imported my mostly Paragon ME1 Shep, about a 75/25 Paragon/Renegade mix. I could NOT pick Paragon for the initial Miranda/Jack fight, so I pi**ed off Jack then did more Loyalty missions gaining more Paragon points. Now when I was just about ready to go collect the IFF, I went to talk to Jack and had enough points to then use Paragon.

[J4N3_M3]

did you have your special talent maxed out?

[Elyvern]

Started a NG renegade game, and am feeling crestfallen that I can't get any bonus morality points carrying through. I intend to resolve the Miranda/Jack conflict asap, but the Tali/Legion one will have to wait. Since that one requires an incredible renegade score to placate, I'm starting to worry that I won't have the required points.

[J4N3_M3]

Elyvern wrote...

Started a NG renegade game, and am feeling crestfallen that I can't get any bonus morality points carrying through. I intend to resolve the Miranda/Jack conflict asap, but the Tali/Legion one will have to wait. Since that one requires an incredible renegade score to placate, I'm starting to worry that I won't have the required points.

actually, I had no troubles solving both fights with a non-imported Shep on my renegade run. If you play the game in the right order, this means, you get a lot of renegade points on quite many occasions. Legion/Tali fight comes at the end anyway so your score should be high enough by then. Also, I can't stop pointing out that a maxed out special talent is quite important, since it gives 70% or 100% on both scores depending which version you choose.