162 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

If there were pedophiles in the game I think it would cause a foxnewsconipition. While I would not mind as it would have actually made Dragon Age "Dark" I think it was smart of bioware to avoid negative news like that.



On an aside older people buying youger children in brothels was a common practice through human history. Also it was common in the Roman Republic and the Greek Empire (ie Aristotle kept many young boys). It was not until really the modern age when pedophila has been so looked down upon. There where people who perfered, but then again if they were in Dragon Age I would have to introduce them to the insta kill warden knife I guess.

[maxernst]

It's difficult to know what "of age" means in Ferelden. In addition to being more literate, it's also a society where women have far more freedom than they did in the historical middle ages....but on the other hand, it does seem that arranged marriages are not uncommon. I suppose one could argue that the fact that we have only child and adult body models may be a reflection that the modern concept of adolescence doesn't exist, in which case "of age" would probably be ~14, certainly no older than 16.

OT, but I saw the movie Mermaids (made in 1990) recently and thought it...odd...that nobody seemed to be concerned about the propriety of a 15-year old girl having an affair with a 26-year-old man. Was there any controversy about that when the movie came out?

Edited to add:
By the way, you can marry as young as 14 in some states of the U.S. with parental consent and a court order (though I doubt it would be easy to get a judge to sign off on that these days).  Parental consent is all that's needed for a 16-year-old in most states.

Modifié par maxernst, 18 juin 2010 - 07:13 .

[tmp7704]

ejoslin wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

There are many young women who are not married but who have the adult female model.

To be fair at least in part that's because it's either the full adult model or 10 year old kid one

That is true, but doesn't negate the rest of what I wrote.

Yup. I'm curious though if the other things we take from the way things are arranged in the game don't get skewed by similar process. For example, how much of apparent literacy in Ferelden is an illusion caused by the fact bookshelves are one of few props available for the level builders, and as such get generously sprinkled around to create at least some visual variety. Plus, wonder if the DA Gutenberg has been born already?

[nos_astra]

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
There are many young women who are not married but who have the adult female model.

To be fair at least in part that's because it's either the full adult model or 10 year old kid one

That is true, but doesn't negate the rest of what I wrote.

Yup. I'm curious though if the other things we take from the way things are arranged in the game don't get skewed by similar process. For example, how much of apparent literacy in Ferelden is an illusion caused by the fact bookshelves are one of few props available for the level builders, and as such get generously sprinkled around to create at least some visual variety. Plus, wonder if the DA Gutenberg has been born already?

I've wondered this, too. How do they manage this miracle literacy? There's is most likely no educational system. After all Ferelden is considered only one step away from barbarism.

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
There are many young women who are not married but who have the adult female model.

To be fair at least in part that's because it's either the full adult model or 10 year old kid one

That is true, but doesn't negate the rest of what I wrote.

Yup. I'm curious though if the other things we take from the way things are arranged in the game don't get skewed by similar process. For example, how much of apparent literacy in Ferelden is an illusion caused by the fact bookshelves are one of few props available for the level builders, and as such get generously sprinkled around to create at least some visual variety. Plus, wonder if the DA Gutenberg has been born already?

I've wondered this, too. How do they manage this miracle literacy? There's is most likely no educational system. After all Ferelden is considered only one step away from barbarism.

I'd say the Chantry was probably involved. Perhaps it is a high priority for them for everyone to be able to read the chant of light so they can help spread it across the four corners? 

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 I'd say the Chantry was probably involved. Perhaps it is a high priority for them for everyone to be able to read the chant of light so they can help spread it across the four corners? 

That makes sense, although it'd then make these public chanters who spend their days reciting the Chant to the crowd somewhat obsolete. Although, on second thought i'm not sure if Chantry would be actually that keen on literacy -- it's similar to how the Church would view ability for any peasant to read the Bible at home (and in their own language to boot) quite dangerous because it'd affect the role of Church as the sole 'negotiator' between them and the God. Plus, as long as people have to rely on the Chantry to deliver them the Chant, it's much easier for the Chantry to control exactly what version is spread around, and keep all parts considered heretical under wraps etc.

Modifié par tmp7704, 18 juin 2010 - 08:41 .

[ejoslin]

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

There are many young women who are not married but who have the adult female model.

To be fair at least in part that's because it's either the full adult model or 10 year old kid one

That is true, but doesn't negate the rest of what I wrote.

Yup. I'm curious though if the other things we take from the way things are arranged in the game don't get skewed by similar process. For example, how much of apparent literacy in Ferelden is an illusion caused by the fact bookshelves are one of few props available for the level builders, and as such get generously sprinkled around to create at least some visual variety. Plus, wonder if the DA Gutenberg has been born already?

Actually, it's Zevran being literate and speaking about reading as a child which makes me think that literacy is common.  If a child born in a ****house and sold to a guild of assassins is given that much of an education, it seems that education has reached all walks.  

Edit: In that conversation, he takes the fact that a child can read for granted.  It is just a common place thing.  Granted, it's a throwaway line, but there is the assumption that children are taught to read.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 juin 2010 - 08:52 .

[soignee]

That's Antivan society, though, and a wh0rehouse at that. A bored worker in between, uh, shifts can teach a kid no problem. You don't know what kind of wh0rehouse it was, either- could be Pearl-like quality rather then a rash covered dockside worker, you never know.

In terms of dwarf society I doubt dusters are taught literacy; Sigrun mentions an exiled noble in the Legion taught her to read, and she had to be 17 at the very minimum then.

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...


That's Antivan society, though, and a wh0rehouse at that. A bored worker in between, uh, shifts can teach a kid no problem. You don't know what kind of wh0rehouse it was, either- could be Pearl-like quality rather then a rash covered dockside worker, you never know.

In terms of dwarf society I doubt dusters are taught literacy; Sigrun mentions an exiled noble in the Legion taught her to read, and she had to be 17 at the very minimum then.

But he assumes that the warden could read as a child.  And he doesn't mention his knowing how as anything unusual. 

Edit: And for it to be a **** that taught him, there'd still have to be books around.  He does mention the chantry as well though; I think it makes the most sense that the chantry is doing the educating.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 juin 2010 - 08:54 .

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...


That's Antivan society, though, and a wh0rehouse at that. A bored worker in between, uh, shifts can teach a kid no problem. You don't know what kind of wh0rehouse it was, either- could be Pearl-like quality rather then a rash covered dockside worker, you never know.

In terms of dwarf society I doubt dusters are taught literacy; Sigrun mentions an exiled noble in the Legion taught her to read, and she had to be 17 at the very minimum then.

Teaching them to read could make them a problem. Keep the low people uneducated.

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

soignee wrote...


That's Antivan society, though, and a wh0rehouse at that. A bored worker in between, uh, shifts can teach a kid no problem. You don't know what kind of wh0rehouse it was, either- could be Pearl-like quality rather then a rash covered dockside worker, you never know.

In terms of dwarf society I doubt dusters are taught literacy; Sigrun mentions an exiled noble in the Legion taught her to read, and she had to be 17 at the very minimum then.

But he assumes that the warden could read as a child.  And he doesn't mention his knowing how as anything unusual. 

That's still Zevran looking at everything from an Antivan perspective. Maybe literacy is higher in Antiva. Rica was only taught to read by Beraht when she started being trained to be a NH and so presumably the DC was taught by her.

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

But he assumes that the warden could read as a child.  And he doesn't mention his knowing how as anything unusual. 

Edit: And for it to be a **** that taught him, there'd still have to be books around.  He does mention the chantry as well though; I think it makes the most sense that the chantry is doing the educating.

I think that the DC was also taught by a ****.

By that I mean Rica.

[thegreateski]

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark (heh) and assume that everyone wants to "murder-knife" this Tilver fellow?

[ejoslin]

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

Second edit: Yep, this is the line!

Warden: The Chantry will educate children of all castes.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 juin 2010 - 09:00 .

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

There is a reason that he got assassinated 

[ejoslin]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

There is a reason that he got assassinated 

My point of that is, though, that Ferelden (and Antiva, from what I understand) are very much Chantry led.  As much bad as the Chantry does, apparently they do educate children.  And it's more than just an indoctrination.

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

There is a reason that he got assassinated 

My point of that is, though, that Ferelden (and Antiva, from what I understand) are very much Chantry led.  As much bad as the Chantry does, apparently they do educate children.  And it's more than just an indoctrination.

Yes, who would do it otherwise?

I wonder who does it in Rivain though.

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

Second edit: Yep, this is the line!

Warden: The Chantry will educate children of all castes.

I never use that line because I kind of doubted that the Shaper would really be that concerned. Does that reason convince him? 

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Isn't one of the arguments used to allow Brother Berkel to start a dwarven branch of the chantry that they would educate the poor? I'll have to double check that.

Edit: And Orzammar is not Ferelden either!

Second edit: Yep, this is the line!

Warden: The Chantry will educate children of all castes.

I never use that line because I kind of doubted that the Shaper would really be that concerned. Does that reason convince him? 

Yeh, it does actually.  Still, whether it did or didn't, it seems to be taken as truth that the Chantry will educate the children.

[maxernst]

It does? Oh--I suppose he assumes (which might not by true) that "all castes" excludes the casteless. I can't imagine the Shaper would approve of educating them.



I'm not really that surprised that the chantry wants to educate people. They need people to recite the chant. And for all of the chantry's faults, if you think about the job board quests, they do seem to want to help people....as long as they're believers, of course.

[tmp7704]

ejoslin wrote...

But he assumes that the warden could read as a child.  And he doesn't mention his knowing how as anything unusual.

That whole bit in the conversation feels very much like knocking on the 4th wall for the sake of making conversation light-hearted, and thus somewhat out of the settings, tbh. I mean, Zevran is being "genre savvy" with the talk of heroes always dying unless they have the trusty sidekick with them and... don't know, the wording for the whole thing feels just a bit (maybe unintentionally) off.   Some of Alistair's dialogue is like that too, it can get sophisticated to the point where you can see educated writer behind the character who just isn't likely to be this intelligent and educated themselves.

Modifié par tmp7704, 18 juin 2010 - 09:39 .

[ejoslin]

maxernst wrote...

It does? Oh--I suppose he assumes (which might not by true) that "all castes" excludes the casteless. I can't imagine the Shaper would approve of educating them.

I'm not really that surprised that the chantry wants to educate people. They need people to recite the chant. And for all of the chantry's faults, if you think about the job board quests, they do seem to want to help people....as long as they're believers, of course.

Actually, I think the conversation makes it sound like he thinks it will be the end of the caste system.

Warden: The Chantry will educate children of all castes.
Shaper: I am not certain this is in Orzammar's best interests. Our castes have served us well. (Sounds doubtful.)
Shaper: But it's possible this service could benefit our people. (doubtful)
Shaper: Very well. He may hold a prayer meeting as he requested, if not build a new temple to his god. (relenting, but still skeptical)
Shaper: At least the words would come from one of our own. (slightly bitter -- the times they are a changin')

Edit: tmp7704 I agree that there are some awkward bits in that conversation (not as bad as the one where he talks about "good karma", mind you, but awkward nonetheless), but it's not the only indication that he's literate. 

Literacy does seem to be assumed, though.  Messengers are common enough, and they give notes.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 juin 2010 - 09:46 .

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Actually, I think the conversation makes it sound like he thinks it will be the end of the caste system.

Warden: The Chantry will educate children of all castes.
Shaper: I am not certain this is in Orzammar's best interests. Our castes have served us well. (Sounds doubtful.)
Shaper: But it's possible this service could benefit our people. (doubtful)
Shaper: Very well. He may hold a prayer meeting as he requested, if not build a new temple to his god. (relenting, but still skeptical)
Shaper: At least the words would come from one of our own. (slightly bitter -- the times they are a changin')

And then he got a knife between the ribs.

The system works *salutes*

[tmp7704]

ejoslin wrote...

Literacy does seem to be assumed, though.  Messengers are common enough, and they give notes.

That's true. Maybe Mr.Gaider can explain one day if that's just result of convenience/oversight or if they have some actual plausible system worked out for that. (literacy on levels of the most advanced modern countries, i mean)