166 réponses à ce sujet

[LorDC]

Mesina2 wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Ecael wrote...
To further expand on LorDC's idea - and so it will fit the whole thermal clip explanation...

Since it would be weird to say that thermal clips regenerate directly, how about this:

When Shepard ejects a thermal clip from the gun, that thermal clip stays on the ground and slowly cools (instead of saying regenerates). Eventually, it reverts back into a regular thermal clip that you pick up off the ground.

Now the thermal clip regenerates, and there's a justification for it too.

Comments?

Why drop it on ground? Why can't you just put in special pocket where it cools down? I thought about this idea. Yes it is more "realistic". But it just brings unnecessary complexity while being effectively same as my suggestion.

Because it would be too hot?

Well, hot clip could stay in weapon for a while. Just make pocket from the same material as weapon.

[LorDC]

Stupid double post.

Modifié par LorDC, 20 juin 2010 - 12:13 .

[TelexFerra]

Maybe the chemical reaction that absorbs heat in the clip is expended making it no longer useful.

[Ecael]

Lumikki wrote...

This picture is perfect example as idiotic game design. +3

To have upgrades and better stuff it should never been hunting +1, +2 or +3 numbers, what has no connection to any reality at all. This isn't some fantasy game with magical numbers without any meaning at all.

Meaning those numbers has to be connected to reality where we live. You have found armor material upgrade what provides +12% better physical protection. You have found new kind of ammo technology what could improve you weapon damage 15%.  You have found new kind ammo clip design what double you ammo capacity.

What's the different? The numbers and how it's used makes actualy sense to reality, not just magical way to handle situation. It's about does the game become numbers or are numbers just science reality for the game.

So how does spending 15,000 Platinum to buy Legion a new sniper rifle make any sense in reality? Is the whole thing made out of it? How about looting Medium Human Armor off a geth?

Upgrades should be made of parts found on enemies or in the level itself. Because the armor parts and weapon scraps are tied to a number (just like any other resource), there is no inventory management involved in this case.

1. The types of parts that drop depend on the enemy (Vanguard/Adept/Engineer hostiles will drop BioTech more often, Soldiers will drop armor and weapon parts...) That way, the mission you choose to do first can have an effect on your item progression. If you're a biotic, you should choose to do biotic-heavy missions first to have an easier time with the rest of the missions.

Looting corpses to every case some enemy dies. HELL NO THANKS. Looting corpses very rare cases, because there just happen to be some new technology. Sure, It's fine. I don't want this game to be turned to some looting items games. WTF are you people thinking, this isn't some traditional RPG loot for +2 items game. Get the this idiotic stuff out of my face and come back to reality what Mass Effect games are. This game is not some fantasy traditional roleplaying games to collect best item. The focus should never be about items, they aren't important, items just provides customation. Story is the main point, items are just tools.

I never said that every single corpse was lootable. I said that missions with more biotics would drop BioTech more often and missions with lots of soldiers would drop armor and weapon parts more often.

Not only that, I mentioned this:

"squadmates should automatically pick up loot if they're closer to it than Shepard is."

In other words, life just got even easier because they're doing any looting of parts or ammo for you.

(Click for full image)

WTF again, in this image there is convert something to something. You only need to convert something, when there is some junk items in the game. HELL NO THANKS, I don't want the junk items back. Hole idea to improve inventory system was get the JUNK items out of the picture. Don't mix variety and customation to junk items. Because having variety means no converting, because every item is usefull, it's just players choise do you use them. That's called customation.

Where in that picture does it even refer to junk "items"? Like I said, weapon and armor parts are a generic resource, NOT an item. Converting resources to resources to credits is a bad thing?

I'm fine to having numbers for some number players, but I want option to hide the numbers. Numbers only cause you make decissions based numbers, not as experience as how something feels.

What do you think that button that says "[ ] CODEX" means? Or this description below it:

"An option to have the screen display codex information is also included, if someone doesn't want to look at the numbers. This reduces screen clutter while also providing valuable information that would normally be found on a forum thread or the Mass Effect Wiki."

Criticisms? Suggestions? Comments?

Most of the other stuff was good or okey. Only these few stuff I'm agaist.

I wish you would have taken the time to properly understand anything I wrote in the original post.

Modifié par Ecael, 20 juin 2010 - 02:15 .

[TelexFerra]

Nobody here is proposing that the game be turned into a bunch of 'dice' rolls. Adding stats to the guns will make people make decisions based on numbers, which is kinda what most of us are doing now anyway. I always pick the weapon with the highest model number, and I think most others do too. We all know the descriptions attached to them are embellished and unhelpful. Showing stats like the ones that were shown in ME1 could help players pick the best weapon for them. This also ensures that there isn't only one 'good' weapon while all the other ones of the same type are crap.



Regarding "parts"



There is a critical RPG concept that Bioware lost between ME1 and ME2. This is the concept of the economy. A player is supposed to start out with garbage items. AS the player progresses and gains power, he or she is able to purchase better equipment in larger volume as available resources and credits increase. This compounds the feeling that the player is gaining strength as he or she approaches the endgame. Mass Effect's economy doesn't work like this at all. There aren't any really expensive items; you can buy almost everything in the game with just an imported ME1 save. Sure, there are multiple stages of purchases (AR Damage 1, 2, 3, etc.) but these don't give the same feeling as the player being able to purchase more expensive things. Mass Effect 3 definitely needs this.

[Foolsfolly]

I never said that every single corpse was lootable. I said that missions with more biotics would drop BioTech more often and missions with lots of soldiers would drop armor and weapon parts more often.



Not only that, I mentioned this:



"squadmates should automatically pick up loot if they're closer to it than Shepard is."



In other words, life just got even easier because they're doing any looting of parts or ammo for you.

Gotta say, Ecael....should loot just magically appear in your inventory ala ME1? Prevents people from having to loot and it saves development time by not having to code AI squadmates from picking up items.

[Lumikki]

Ecael wrote...

I wish you would have taken the time to properly understand anything I wrote in the original post.

I did understand well it, don't think I did not. I made one mistake as meaning of you post and I did not even understand it?

Example converting anything to credits can only done where there is something to convert. Meaning are you expecting players to give up they technology levels to get credit or are you assuming that there is items what can be converted. Hole idea behind ME2 "research" system is that there is no extra items. Mening there is no multible same items. Meaning every item that exist is in research only ONE time. So, because that there is absolute ZERO possibility convenvert anything to anything. That's hole point of ME2 "inventory" system. Only thing what You can convert in ME2 system is materials to items as creating something new, what you don't yet have. You could sell materials to get credits.

These +1, +2 +3 and so on are all based thinking somekind of level based system. What I was talking, was not level based system, but system based reality of advanced. Only human creates unnatural step based thing to explain something. Example you can't find in nature materials what follows sertain spesific step as armor protection. My point is that don't use these artificial systems when you don't have need for it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2010 - 03:35 .

[TelexFerra]

Lumikki, there is more than one resource 'point' in the game. Perhaps 1 Palladium really means one kilogram, one megagram? Who knows. It's probably worth something, why not be able to sell it for credits?

[CaptinTucker7]

Regarding your suggestions



1. Parts. From what I can gather, the "parts" system is doing the exact same thing as the "mining" system. Except that instead of collecting minerals your collecting the broken bits and pieces of your enemy's armor and weapons. And turning them into upgrades for your own weapons and armor. I think that instead you should just stick with finding minerals in crates and on Hammerhead missions. And enemy's could just drop thermal clips and credit chits, which are two believable things for them to have on their person. My problems with your thermal clip system have already been addressed, so that brings me to...



2. Mods and Upgrades. I kind of like the system you described, but it is essentially is a more complicated Mass effect 1 system with better graphics. It just seems like it's gonna end up with you having to spend an hour after ever mission upgrading and equipping your whole squad. That's something that's gonna scare away the more casual players, which is just gonna hurt Bioware and the Mass Effect franchise. If Bioware doesn't sell enough games they can't make the DLC we love so much.



3. Consumables. No, just no. If you think it's fun to manage your allies inventories in addition to your own, go buy Fallout 3. Go recruit Butch, give him an assault rifle. Then spend the next five hours managing his inventory.



4. Armor. This is a really good idea. Each squad mate has their one casual outfit to wear around (and look really sexy in), while on missions they could have a "battle outfit" that could be color customizable. If you can change the colors on and N7 armor you should be able to change the colors on your squad's armor. One additional note on armor, I think that the armor should have helmets with the same folding technology as the guns. (Something like the Jaffa helmets in Stargate)

[Lumikki]

TelexFerra wrote...

Lumikki, there is more than one resource 'point' in the game. Perhaps 1 Palladium really means one kilogram, one megagram? Who knows. It's probably worth something, why not be able to sell it for credits?

There is three choise in picture.

1. Convert resource to credit. That is same as selling resources as raw material in cities or ME1 style with "market" officer.
2. Convert resource to parts. That is same as inventing new item technologies. Allready in ME2.
3. Convert parts to resources. This doesn't exist, because there is no induvidual parts (items) in ME2.

Point here is that hole idea of ME2 system was get rid of induvidual items (parts). So, this system is build around brining back induvidual items, because you can't handle "parts" without them to exists on some list. I call my self this junk item list.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2010 - 08:13 .

[TelexFerra]

You have a different opinion on how an RPG should be from Ecael and mytself. I respect that. I myself found all of the items in a game like DAO a bit overwhelming. Honestly, I never made a poison or poultice ONCE. It never mattered to the game and so I didn't do it.



As I said before, having a system like this gives the player the impression that he or she is getting stronger, and that soon resistance will be overcome and the day will be saved! I think an inventory is good, but just not to the length of DAO or even ME1. I think Ecael's suggestion fits that.

[LorDC]

Lumikki wrote...
Point here is that hole idea of ME2 system was get rid of induvidual items (parts). So, this system is build around brining back induvidual items, because you can't handle "parts" without them to exists on some list. I call my self this junk item list.

Emm... from Ecael's post and pictures he made I got understanding that "parts" aren't individual items but another type of resources that are collected directly from enemies.

[Lumikki]

LorDC wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Point here is that hole idea of ME2 system was get rid of induvidual items (parts). So, this system is build around brining back induvidual items, because you can't handle "parts" without them to exists on some list. I call my self this junk item list.

Emm... from Ecael's post and pictures he made I got understanding that "parts" aren't individual items but another type of resources that are collected directly from enemies.

You mean like material, what has maybe 8 different ones?

If so, then I did badly misunderstand the meaning. I assumed that parts are like item parts and there is many different ones. Because what you call them doesn't make any differences, only how many different one there exists. if there is like 50 of them, then they are junk items. If there is under 10 of them, they aren't necassary anymore junk items, even if they have no use. Because minimal number of something doesn't require "inventory" listing. Assuming that they are stacked like materials (counted) and not stored as induvidual items.

How ever, I don't see how gathering materials from bodies makes game better?
(At the moment we get directly credits in ME2 when looting)

When I want to loot something, I would want to find new tehnologies.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 juin 2010 - 12:35 .

[Tooneyman]

Pacifien wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...
I want the trader guy from the original normandy back. Hes the one who still has the linenses from the first game. You bet commander!

Oh, no, he was down by engineering. He's dead, man.

So Tali, Garrus and Wrex are dead too. I'm sorry hes alive. Took me awhile to get back. This one was busy!

Modifié par Tooneyman, 21 juin 2010 - 12:28 .

[kregano]

My thoughts:

-Having "physical" loot ala ME1 makes no sense when I have a portable scanner strapped to my wrist, aside from thermal clips and better guns that happen to be lying around, which have an actual immediate application.

-The inventory kinda sucks. By limiting Shepard to one ammo type (to be shared by everyone), you take away some of the tactical flexibility given to us by ME2. But I do think there should be some way for Shepard to pick out a few ammo types to use during missions instead of forcing each class to have their own ammo types.

-This inventory set up doesn't really give us any weapon customization. I'd prefer a system similar to that of the armor locker, where I can pick and choose parts to fit my play style and alter the look of my gun.

-I don't see the point of consumables if they have the potential to screw you over in combat. Considering how fragile squadmates are, putting these on them would get them killed even faster.

-I like the idea of having multiple types of armor for each squadmate, along with a casual outfit for them, but that needs some more room for customization.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Many great ideas!  But if only one thing could be changed, the most important for me would be proper NPC clothing.  It doesn't even have to be "armor;"  I don't want to worry about my bad-a** team dying from exposure.  Seriously, a face mask protects against complete lack of oxygen and hypothermia? 

[TelexFerra]

One wonders why they put in those face masks in the first place. I don't think there's a single mission that requires a helmet that doesn't take place in a vacuum

[LadyJaneGrey]

TelexFerra wrote...

One wonders why they put in those face masks in the first place. I don't think there's a single mission that requires a helmet that doesn't take place in a vacuum

Yup.  It feels a bit like those old Christian art works that place fig leaves over Adam and Eve's may-or-may-not-exist navels.  Place something small on the body to avoid addressing the obvious issue?

[Ecael]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Many great ideas!  But if only one thing could be changed, the most important for me would be proper NPC clothing.  It doesn't even have to be "armor;"  I don't want to worry about my bad-a** team dying from exposure.  Seriously, a face mask protects against complete lack of oxygen and hypothermia? 

The art team probably had trouble making a breathing helmet to cover Miranda's long hair, and it carried over to several other characters.

Because of the Unreal Engine, it's not really Miranda's hair - it looks more like... well, a helmet.

[TheBlackBaron]

Niftu Sandal is going to become the next Refund Guy. I can feel it. But moving on.

The Universal Thermal Clips system would fit in much better with the lore, I agree, but I think the ME2 system was a sacrifice made for the sake of balance and playability. It would work, but I think you'd need to have a high cap on the total number that can be carried - probably somewhere in the twenties. It should be pretty hard to run out of thermal clips unless you've gotten into a really long firefight; this applies to other games that are straight FPS's and TPS's. That's just my opinion though.

I never ran into any problems with running out of thermal clips, so the ability to let the gun cool on its own would be pretty much moot for me, but it would fit the lore and there's really no reason for it not to be included.

The looting/modding/upgrading system is excellent. My only suggestion would be to allow each squadmate to equip ammo individually.

Consumables I'm meh on - the AI is never able to use them properly so it falls on the player to micromanage the hell out of them. The extra energy cells backfiring I'm especially hesitant about, as the whole point of the heavy weapons is to save the ammo and break them out for difficult encounters. To be screwed over and killed in one of those solely due to a backfire would incude lots of a controller-snapping frustration. I'd be happiest if they just stuck to Medi-gel and brought back grenades, and allowed both to the upgraded with the same system.

Weapon stats should already be in the game, so arguments there, so we'll just cruise right along.

As for squadmate armor, I'd be happy if they all had a unique armor that could be modded using the same system, that moreover looked like actual armor instead of Miranda's catsuit. So the suggestion as is is perfectly good in my opinion.

[Fiery Phoenix]

CaptinTucker7 wrote...

3. Consumables. No, just no. If you think it's fun to manage your allies inventories in addition to your own, go buy Fallout 3. Go recruit Butch, give him an assault rifle. Then spend the next five hours managing his inventory.

That was already in ME1, and it got pretty tedious after a certain number of playthrough's.

Personally, I'd really like to see more variety in DLC armor. Yes, I'm exactly asking for a toggle-helmet option, but also more customization. I only use the N7 armor in ME2 because of that. In addition, I'd love to have the option to train every squadmate in one type of weapon (in addition to their original weapon training) after a certain point in the game. For example, Jacob is defaulted to using a heavy pistol and a shotgun. Why not give him an assault rifle? This could be applied to every squadmate throughout the game to make the team more dynamic and strong.

Also, Ecael, you impress me with this stuff. I really don't know what to say, but at this point you've probably done more to this forum than any other member on here. Really. Thank you. Great ideas all around. And keep them coming. I just hope BioWare are aware of your threads. They don't seem to post in them, for some reason. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 22 juin 2010 - 07:16 .

[Terror_K]

Yeah. BioWare should definitely see these, if they already haven't. You should PM the link to Christina Norman or something, Ecael.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Thread PM'ed to Christina. Let's hope she gets around to it.

[Fraevar]

Hopefully the fact that we've kept a sober tone and haven't badmouthed anyone will go a long way towards establishing good faith.

[Massadonious1]

Always love a good Ecael post, but I do have to nitpick one thing.



This is all fine and dandy, but not when it's used to compare to another weapon. This is a problem I had with the original ME and games like Borderlands. Stats for the sake of stats. I dislike the placebo effect that "something with bigger numbers > something with smaller numbers.' gives people when there is no noticable difference between the two.

For example, there needs to be some kind of tangible difference between this gun, and lets say, a gun with 60 accuracy. Larger and tightened crosshairs, some kind of visual cue to show this gun is indeed more "accurate" (and similar logical solutions to the other stats listed) and things of that nature.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 22 juin 2010 - 10:03 .