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Bioware at E3, Dragon Age 2 and the flyer that came with Awakening.


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#26
TheMadCat

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tmp7704 wrote...


The Old Republic trailer and "we have player ships huzzah!" wasn't an announcement either and we also know that things are coming out relatively soon so that's isn't much of an argument?


Well, unless you already know what's rolling out in early 2011 then we don't know what, if anything, is coming soon. We have a target date from EA's financial roadmap which can easily be changed and a date for something that may or may not be a game, for all we know it could be the anime project. Aside from speculation there isn't anything.

And yes it is better for an established franchise from a big name developer to announce titles away from the big conventions for the simple fact that's it's better to have the spot light solely on you then to share it with others. Not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

#27
tmp7704

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TheMadCat wrote...

And yes it is better for an established franchise from a big name developer to announce titles away from the big conventions for the simple fact that's it's better to have the spot light solely on you then to share it with others. Not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Like i said, someone page Nintendo and tell them they're doing it wrong.

You do realize going by this logic there's little reason for conventions of this sort to exist? After all, if the idea is it is better to announce news separately because then you get all the spotlight, why would anyone ever want to "share the attention" if they can avoid it?

Unless there's some actual benefit in having large amount of both journalists and fans assembled in one place and able to have a look at your product. Hmm. What did they use to call it, "word of mouth"?

#28
TheMadCat

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tmp7704 wrote...

Like i said, someone page Nintendo and tell them they're doing it wrong.

You do realize going by this logic there's little reason for conventions of this sort to exist? After all, if the idea is it is better to announce news separately because then you get all the spotlight, why would anyone ever want to "share the attention" if they can avoid it?

Unless there's some actual benefit in having large amount of both journalists and fans assembled in one place and able to have a look at your product. Hmm. What did they use to call it, "word of mouth"?


No, they're great for smaller companies to announce titles who usually don't get much attention, great for revealing little tidbits about products such as the ship feature for ToR, great for interacting with the consumers and media.

But why would a corporate giant want to make a major announcement about one of it's biggest franchises with about a hundred other things going on when they can wait a few weeks/months, annouce it when things are quiet, and have the full attention of the media and community to hype there product for them? With todays technology they can deliever an annoucement media outlet in every corner of the world with the snap of a finger and with it being EA/BioWare/Dragon Age related it'll immediatly capture their attention. There is no benefit for EA/BioWare to annouce their next Dragon Age product at E3, and if there is no benefit why do it when you can do it much later and have the safe, if not better results.

#29
fanman72

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TheMadCat wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Like i said, someone page Nintendo and tell them they're doing it wrong.

You do realize going by this logic there's little reason for conventions of this sort to exist? After all, if the idea is it is better to announce news separately because then you get all the spotlight, why would anyone ever want to "share the attention" if they can avoid it?

Unless there's some actual benefit in having large amount of both journalists and fans assembled in one place and able to have a look at your product. Hmm. What did they use to call it, "word of mouth"?


No, they're great for smaller companies to announce titles who usually don't get much attention, great for revealing little tidbits about products such as the ship feature for ToR, great for interacting with the consumers and media.

But why would a corporate giant want to make a major announcement about one of it's biggest franchises with about a hundred other things going on when they can wait a few weeks/months, annouce it when things are quiet, and have the full attention of the media and community to hype there product for them? With todays technology they can deliever an annoucement media outlet in every corner of the world with the snap of a finger and with it being EA/BioWare/Dragon Age related it'll immediatly capture their attention. There is no benefit for EA/BioWare to annouce their next Dragon Age product at E3, and if there is no benefit why do it when you can do it much later and have the safe, if not better results.



Spot on.  E3 isn't always idea the best place to reveal new products, it depends on what your strategy is.  The marketing guys at Bioware and EA are probably far better judges of that


Some of Christ Priestly's past comments and David Gaider's comments in this thread have STRONGLY hinted at DA2, even if they didnt say it outright.  I have a feeling we'll see DA2 come next February


It also makes me think - Bioware has been pumping out games left and right recently.  I hope EA isn't overworking them, or they're getting compensated accordingly

#30
Behindyounow

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I'm just disappointed we didn't see a good game from Bioware at E3.

#31
tmp7704

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TheMadCat wrote...

But why would a corporate giant want to make a major announcement about one of it's biggest franchises with about a hundred other things going on when they can wait a few weeks/months, annouce it when things are quiet, and have the full attention of the media and community to hype there product for them?

A very good question. So why does a number of them do exactly this, announce major projects and continuations to the biggest franchises "while there's hundred of other things going"? Are all these highly paid market specialists all dumber than an average forum poster and just don't know what's the best way to get it done?

And if anything, it would seem to me that you got it the other way around -- an actual major announcement about big franchise can well defend itself and gather large attention (and associated hype) on its own merit, and it will take that attention easily from titles and events considered less important. It's the weak things and non-announcements that generally have to wait till there's lull in the news just to get the attention they'd be otherwise unable to gain.

#32
TheMadCat

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tmp7704 wrote...

A very good question. So why does a number of them do exactly this, announce major projects and continuations to the biggest franchises "while there's hundred of other things going"? Are all these highly paid market specialists all dumber than an average forum poster and just don't know what's the best way to get it done?

And if anything, it would seem to me that you got it the other way around -- an actual major announcement about big franchise can well defend itself and gather large attention (and associated hype) on its own merit, and it will take that attention easily from titles and events considered less important. It's the weak things and non-announcements that generally have to wait till there's lull in the news just to get the attention they'd be otherwise unable to gain.


How many franchise titles on par with Dragon Age or Mass Effect got announced at E3?

Modifié par TheMadCat, 20 juin 2010 - 12:20 .


#33
fanman72

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TheMadCat wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

A very good question. So why does a number of them do exactly this, announce major projects and continuations to the biggest franchises "while there's hundred of other things going"? Are all these highly paid market specialists all dumber than an average forum poster and just don't know what's the best way to get it done?

And if anything, it would seem to me that you got it the other way around -- an actual major announcement about big franchise can well defend itself and gather large attention (and associated hype) on its own merit, and it will take that attention easily from titles and events considered less important. It's the weak things and non-announcements that generally have to wait till there's lull in the news just to get the attention they'd be otherwise unable to gain.


How many franchise titles on par with Dragon Age or Mass Effect got announced at E3?



Exactly.  Not to mention, many of the bigger names that were shown at E3 everybody has already known they are coming out for some time; it's just extra publicity (Think the new Fallout, The Old Republic)

#34
tmp7704

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TheMadCat wrote...

How many franchise titles on par with Dragon Age or Mass Effect got announced at E3?

Last year? Metal Gear Solid, Halo, Crysis, Forza Motorsport, Final Fantasy, Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid.

This year: you know how the picture tells thousands words, so...

Posted Image

#35
Si-Shen

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Colenda wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Is there a requirement that something get announced at E3 that we're not aware of?


yes there is


Yep. It's there in a subclause of the Canadian constitution, plus the UN included it in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We thought you knew.


Well since there is no "Canadian Constitution" then Bioware is ok, now if it was part of the Charter of Rights, you might have something there ;)  LOL sorry to nit-pick, we just happened to spend ALL of Friday correcting people about that at work XD

#36
TheMadCat

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tmp7704 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

How many franchise titles on par with Dragon Age or Mass Effect got announced at E3?

Last year? Metal Gear Solid, Halo, Crysis, Forza Motorsport, Final Fantasy, Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid.

This year: you know how the picture tells thousands words, so...


I was hoping you would have picked up on the trend yourself but apparently you haven't so I'll point it out. Asian developers operate on a much, much smaller advertisement budget then Euro/American publishers, they tend to rely on these events for cheap advertisement far more then their counter parts out west who prefer  the center of attention, private demos and bull sessions, and primetime TV ads. This is why you see all these games listed (Minus a couple) are from firms established in the east, this is why you've been shouting Nintendo in your defense rather then EA, Activision, Ubisoft, 2K, ect. And I'm not really sure what 1,000 words your picture there is trying to say, it listed a couple of games once again from companies out east.

One thing I've noticed though in your arguments against mine, you've failed to give a reason as to why BioWare blew the opportune chance at E3, instead you've been shouting Nintendo and saying nuh uh you're wrong, though much more eloquently obviously. Care to explain why you feel BioWare blew it?

#37
attend

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Valente11 wrote...

any disappointment is your own fault tbh... the immaturity of some of the posters here never ceases to amaze me.



I agree.  It amazes me that people speak their own minds and speculate on future editions of a game they love.  The horror.  It is this level of immaturity that makes all of us look ba...

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#38
Feraele

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Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Is there a requirement that something get announced at E3 that we're not aware of?


I think many people are just wondering what the heck that mysterious blood dragon card with 2/1/2011 from Awakening is all about. You put the pieces together from EA's announcement of a "Dragon Age Title TBA" coming in fiscal Q4 2011 combined with other interviews and tidbits of info and it seemed like maybe we'd hear something at E3.

After all, its been about 3 months or so since Awakening and there has been nothing since then to shed more light on what that 2/1/2011 card means. Obviously we'll likely learn about it whenever its planned to be revealed, but from my POV it just seems kind of odd to tease something DA related and then totally stay quiet about it for months on end, while other games scheduled for similar release dates are having trailers and info and such revealed. E3 just seemed as good a time as any to make some surprise announcement considering E3 is usually all about the surprises.


Frankly, we should be used to the long silences by now..doncha think :D    They feed us little tidbits and then ignore us......hehehe.

Silence is golden they say....yeap.     Well for them maybe.   The rest of us would like to be clued in. :)

#39
Feraele

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attend wrote...

Valente11 wrote...

any disappointment is your own fault tbh... the immaturity of some of the posters here never ceases to amaze me.



I agree.  It amazes me that people speak their own minds and speculate on future editions of a game they love.  The horror.  It is this level of immaturity that makes all of us look ba...

Hey! Look! A shiny penny!  That is soooo mine.Posted Image


I have to agree,  we are horrible. :D  

Curiosity killed the cat (us)   Satisfaction brought it back (DA news updated)   hehehe

#40
Feraele

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TheMadCat wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...


The Old Republic trailer and "we have player ships huzzah!" wasn't an announcement either and we also know that things are coming out relatively soon so that's isn't much of an argument?


Well, unless you already know what's rolling out in early 2011 then we don't know what, if anything, is coming soon. We have a target date from EA's financial roadmap which can easily be changed and a date for something that may or may not be a game, for all we know it could be the anime project. Aside from speculation there isn't anything.

And yes it is better for an established franchise from a big name developer to announce titles away from the big conventions for the simple fact that's it's better to have the spot light solely on you then to share it with others. Not that difficult of a concept to grasp.


I have my suspicions there will be more than one product from EA/Bioware coming out in 2011,   the lead writer for TOR seemed to be saying "hope to see you online in spring 2011" if I am not mistaken, plus I "think" that anime movie "might" be due out then as well.       Still don't really believe there's been enough time for a sequel to DA yet, but who knows when they started work on it...seems everything else was worked on early..ie: prior to release, or at least thats my impression I am getting.

And lastly I have to agree with MadCat re:  "announcing titles away from the big conventions"    I watched E3 every day, and it was one long, long list of new games, sequels to games, interviews, spotlights etc etc.

Basically ended up being a blur of video gaming.    I tagged some stuff for my account at Gamespot,   just so I can check back later,  but its hard to remember everything,  ALTHOUGH I do remember being impressed with the latest CGI movie  "Hope" for Tor.   And impressed with the New Vegas thing...that bot on the road, I like to replay that video,  just cracks me up.  :)

#41
_-Greywolf-_

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David Gaider wrote...

Is there a requirement that something get announced at E3 that we're not aware of?


No of course not, but if you are planning on releasing a new Dragon Age title February 2011 (as hinted by the flyer and backed up by EA's release schedule) one would think that it would be good buisness sense to hype it up at one of the biggest gaming events of the year. Of course I am not saying that you should have announced a new Dragon Age product at E3, but I do have to wonder what the flyer means if it isnt the release date for a new Dragon Age product, and if it is the release date for a new Dragon Age product I do wonder why you diddnt hype it up at the E3 before its release. I also have to wonder if the flyer has any validity to it at all or whether it hinted at plans that have been changed since its release.

I am not trying to flame Bioware or tell them what they should or shouldnt do, but I do have to wonder what their intentions are. Of course I know the chances of getting an answer to these questions are pretty slim but I guess I just had to put them out there.

#42
TheMadCat

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I have my suspicions there will be more than one product from EA/Bioware
coming out in 2011,   the lead writer for TOR seemed to be saying "hope
to see you online in spring 2011" if I am not mistaken, plus I "think"
that anime movie "might" be due out then as well.       Still don't
really believe there's been enough time for a sequel to DA yet, but who
knows when they started work on it...seems everything else was worked on
early..ie: prior to release, or at least thats my impression I am
getting.


Well, we know for a fact EA/BioWare has at least major 3 projects targeted for 2011. The unnamed Dragon Age title in early 2011, The Old Republic in spring/summer of '11, and Mass Effect 3 for the holiday's and that anime movie as far as I'm aware will be coming out around the same time as the game, using the game to push the animes sales.

As far as it being to soon. I've always said this, EA has the cash and BioWare has the manpower to churn out titles as fast as anyone in the industry. The game was done in early 2009, shelved to allow the ports to catch up and allow for a simultaneous release. So you're talking about around a 2 year development cycle at the very least and there is no reason to doubt it wasn't in some stage of production prior to that.

Then you also have to look at economics, if this early '11 project isn't a full blown sequel when would the next window open up for a release? They're not going to put it out in the same quarters as ToR or ME3, which eliminates FY Q1 and FY Q3; FY Q2 is typically their sports quarter and the second easiest time to move product (Summer vacation). This leaves FY Q4, which is the slot the untitled Dragon Age project is currently in. It's the hardest slot to move product in being right after the holiday's but it's also the most important slot being the last quarter of their fiscal year which is why you'll see EA launch a slew of their heavy hitters and I don't see them giving it to an expansion pack if the option to have a full title made is plausible, and I feel it is. So for the next two years, the only really plausible slots for a full Dragon Age title would be early '11 or early '12 and I don't see EA waiting around 3 years to have a full sequel out.

If course it's all my opinion and I could be wrong. :)

Modifié par TheMadCat, 20 juin 2010 - 04:46 .


#43
tmp7704

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TheMadCat wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Last year? Metal Gear Solid, Halo, Crysis, Forza Motorsport, Final Fantasy, Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid.


I was hoping you would have picked up on the trend yourself but apparently you haven't so I'll point it out. Asian developers operate on a much, much smaller advertisement budget then Euro/American publishers, they tend to rely on these events for cheap advertisement far more then their counter parts out west who prefer  the center of attention, private demos and bull sessions, and primetime TV ads. This is why you see all these games listed (Minus a couple) are from firms established in the east (..)

I'm sorry, but when roughly half of the titles i listed (4 out of 9) actually gets announced by the large western publishers with these supposed much larger budgets, this isn't much of a trend you try to paint. That's like saying world population is men (minus couple of women)

Besides, do you really believe the cost of attending E3 at the scale Microsoft, Sony or EA does ... is less than what it'd cost them to get a small group of key journalists into a private demo session during slow news time, something which is supposed to give much better advertisement effect?

One thing I've noticed though in your arguments against mine, you've failed to give a reason as to why BioWare blew the opportune chance at E3, instead you've been shouting Nintendo and saying nuh uh you're wrong, though much more eloquently obviously. Care to explain why you feel BioWare blew it?

It's not like you couldn't refresh your memory simply checking few posts back, so i'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this question. But to recap:

- i said it's rather odd to see a company pass up on a good opportunity to advertise their products
- you have countered with claim that's because the result of such advertising would be less than if they did it outside of this kind of convention and as such it's normal thing for any large company to do
- i've questioned that, pointing out multiple companies of this scale that do in fact adverise in such manner even though it's, according to your claim, a silly thing to do and they'd be much better off not doing it this way.
- you've countered by modifying your original statement -- it's now not just small companies that advertise in such way, it's also eastern companies because they're cheap.
- i've found your new explanation to be stretching the facts, at best.

In short, you have attempted to address my initial question but i've found the provided explanation rather questionable itself. It would've probably worked better if you hadn't tried to present it as some kind of universal thing, i suppose? I mean, if you try to add weight to your theory with "everyone is doing it like that" and actually not everyone is doing it like that, then welp.

#44
AlanC9

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TheMadCat wrote...
Then you also have to look at economics, if this early '11 project isn't a full blown sequel when would the next window open up for a release? They're not going to put it out in the same quarters as ToR or ME3, which eliminates FY Q1 and FY Q3; FY Q2 is typically their sports quarter and the second easiest time to move product (Summer vacation). This leaves FY Q4, which is the slot the untitled Dragon Age project is currently in. It's the hardest slot to move product in being right after the holiday's but it's also the most important slot being the last quarter of their fiscal year which is why you'll see EA launch a slew of their heavy hitters.. 


Wait a minute. That sounds like EA plans to launch their heavy hitters in Q4. As opposed to frantically trying to push stuff out the door rather than letting it slip into the next FY.

I also don't see what's wrong with Q2. There isn't going to be too much marketing overlap between the rest of their products and anything DA-related. Didn't ME1 PC release in Q2?

#45
Haa92

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Who can say, what to do after you finish the main story in Dragon Age Origings?

#46
Lord Gremlin

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Haa92 wrote...

Who can say, what to do after you finish the main story in Dragon Age Origings?

Import your character to Awakening and enjoy how uber-powerful he is.

#47
TheMadCat

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tmp7704 wrote...

In short, you have attempted to address my initial question but i've found the provided explanation rather questionable itself. It would've probably worked better if you hadn't tried to present it as some kind of universal thing, i suppose? I mean, if you try to add weight to your theory with "everyone is doing it like that" and actually not everyone is doing it like that, then welp.


I don't think I've been trying to point it out as some universal thing, if I have it's been unintentional. All I've been doing is pointing out announcing at these big events benefits certain companies and titles more then others, EA/BioWare not being one of them. Why would you share the spotlight with tons of other stories and updates when the announcement would generate just as much, if not more buzz on it's own. Dragon Age 2 would be massive news that every game site and blogger would instantly pick up on and hype it, lay it out when Dragon Age 2 is the only thing out there for the media and consumers to hype. The market and media is fickle, it's best to keep them fed with your stuff as often as possible.

As far as why I asked for a list, I was curious to see if I missed something outside of what I expected and I did. Microsoft, don't pay a whole lot of attention to them and for about of them in this instane so I screwed up there. Everything else though was announced by an eastern based company, Crysis 2 was announced before E3.

But this debates run it's course. Agree to disagree?

Wait a minute. That sounds like EA plans
to launch their heavy hitters in Q4. As opposed to frantically trying
to push stuff out the door rather than letting it slip into the next FY.


Hehe, everything's planned to the letter these days. Broken or not it's coming out when they feel they need it to come out.

I
also don't see what's wrong with Q2. There isn't going to be too much
marketing overlap between the rest of their products and anything
DA-related. Didn't ME1 PC release in Q2?


ME1 came out in Q3 (November 20th). The PC version may have come out in Q2 in the next year but that doesn't really impact much, it's the inital release that drives the numbers.

They could release it in Q2, I just don't see it as an opportune time for them. It's their sports quarter which they dominate and it's also an easy time to sell products, waste of a guaranteed blockbuster. Plus depending on exactly what month ToR is released and becomes stable you might have a tailing effect like you see with other MMO's some times, (High sales/Low Sales/High Sales again once it's been patched and stabilized), so you really don't want to risk BioWare competing with BioWare in any capacity. Q4 is the ideal spot, distance from other BioWare products and it's a slot where you want your guaranteed successes.

#48
Phaelducan

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You guys are worried about nothing... I'm sure Obsidian will do a great job with DA2.

#49
TolaGarf

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Phaelducan wrote...

You guys are worried about nothing... I'm sure Obsidian will do a great job with DA2.


Funny! Hah..

#50
YohkoOhno

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Personally I don't understand the Obsidian hate--I really enjoyed Alpha Protocol (even though it was shorter than I'd like), and NWN2 is way better than NWN.