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[battle hunger]

So I'm getting back into DA:O and though I might revisit a personal favorite playthrought : human noble with the goal of romancing Leliana.  I only hardened her once with an ''evil'' (if such a term can exist in DA) HN, but I had rarely taken her with me as my main party consisted of Morrigan/Zev/Sten, so I really have no id how she is actually different other than camp discussions. 

I was considering hardening her this playthrough, although my character will have a knight and heroesque attitude, will I actually see a difference, since I'll prolly be doing only actions a normal leliana would support anyway or should I not bother at all?

I know from my female warden playthroughs that an hardened Alistair is alot different, especially in the outcome of the romance, but is it also like that with Leliana?

[SirEmilCrane]

Mostly she won't disapprove of "questionable" decisions as much and you get to have a threesome with her her and Isabella (or foursome with Zev)

As to how it affects the romance I cannot say as I've only ever hardened her and romanced her.

Modifié par SirEmilCrane, 20 juin 2010 - 05:43 .

[ejoslin]

Unfortunately, most of Leliana's "hardened" dialog is bugged. I do repair it, but that only works on a PC. However, if you do mod it, she does have different dialogs, her declaration of love is different, and she is willing to stay on with the warden who is going to marry Alistair/Anora. Otherwise, in an unmodded game, basically she reacts differently to a couple of situations, one of them has a fairly major impact. The other two I can think of offhand, not so much so.

[Lord Gremlin]

ejoslin, what situation with fairly major impact are you referring to? It's a spoiler forum anyway.

[Xandurpein]

I think she refers to the sacred ashes quest. If she is not hardened she Will leave your party if you defile the ashes.

[Lord Gremlin]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think she refers to the sacred ashes quest. If she is not hardened she Will leave your party if you defile the ashes.

She will leave you anyway. Well, if she's hardened you'll have an intimidate option, but unless you're a strength-based build with level 4 coercion it's useless.

[Last Darkness]

Hardened Leilana has some extra creepy romance scenes with you. Shes CRAZY!

From a logical perspective hardening her is the Right thing to do and also can be the evil thing to do.

If you dont harden her shes forever tormented by her guilt and urges for the things shes done and wants to do. So if you want her to suffer so you can feel better about your moral compass go for that.

[ejoslin]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think she refers to the sacred ashes quest. If she is not hardened she Will leave your party if you defile the ashes.

She will leave you anyway. Well, if she's hardened you'll have an intimidate option, but unless you're a strength-based build with level 4 coercion it's useless.

No, you just need the +4 coercion.  It can be lower if you have a str based build.

[Master Shiori]

On one of my playrhroughs I left hardened Leliana in the camp before going off to defile the Ashes.



Funny enough, once I got back to camp she never questioned me about my actions. I just got the normal "You're seen and touched Andraste's Ashes" line.



Wynne, ofc, left immediately.



Not sure if that a bug or what...

[blademaster7]

I-s-a-b-e-l-a



That's all I need, really...

[RavenousBear]

I hardened Leliana and when I defiled the Ashes yesterday she attacked me with no dialogue options what so ever (I had 4 points in coercion). I had to reload and remove her from the party when I defiled the ashes.



The only way I could keep her in my party was a Persuade/Lie saying the ashes were safe. If I told her the truth, she would leave the party. My guess is that it was a bug in the game.

[squigian]

I think you need to "confirm" the hardening in a later conversation. You do her quest, convince her either way and then the next time you go back to camp she should tell you that she has made up her mind.

[RavenousBear]

I thought I did that, but this is the first time I ever tried hardening her so I will try that. I went to the Pearl and she joined in a three-some so I "assumed" it was confirmed. I will have to go back a few saves, oh well.

[mousestalker]

The hardened Lelianna needs extra padding for her metal bras.

[RavenousBear]

I figured it out. I failed the last part of the Test of Faith quest line by refusing to take off my gear by the fire thus attacking the guardian before I reached the Urn. When I unequipped my gear, walked through the fire, and then defiled the Ashes, I received the option to intimidate her.

[errant_knight]

Last Darkness wrote...

Hardened Leilana has some extra creepy romance scenes with you. Shes CRAZY!
From a logical perspective hardening her is the Right thing to do and also can be the evil thing to do.
If you dont harden her shes forever tormented by her guilt and urges for the things shes done and wants to do. So if you want her to suffer so you can feel better about your moral compass go for that.

*Rolls eyes* Does someone else want to take this? I haven't had enough coffee yet.

[Addai]

This is one reason I dislike the character so much and have ended up avoiding her completely on most of my characters- the hardening choice is so absurd.  Maybe someone can make me see it in a different light.  You either have to tell her that the (rather annoying) Chantry-sister front she's been putting up is the way to go, or else you tell her that it was ok that she stalked, tortured and murdered people and lied for a living because at least she got some lolz out of it.

With Alistair's hardening choice, you just tell him to stand up for himself, something I would do for any friend.  You're not telling him which of his split personalities he should run with.

I do think I dislike "hardening" NPCs in general, however.  Don't like it that the PC has that much power over someone's personality.

[Patriciachr34]

Spoilers abound....



Unhardened Leliana is NOT forever tormented by her decisions. I've never hardened her. She is happiest when you kill Marjolaine. It is Marjolaine who haunts her. When she is left alive, Leliana eventually seeks her out again because of unresolved issues. When you kill Marjolaine Leliana feels free to pursue who own life goals. Unhardened Leliana who has killed Marjolaine is placed in charge of the chantry guard at the urn of sacred ashes. In this scenario she gets to use her skills in a positive, life affirming way and is very happy to do so.



Okay Errant, its now time for my morning cup o' joe.

[errant_knight]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Spoilers abound....

Unhardened Leliana is NOT forever tormented by her decisions. I've never hardened her. She is happiest when you kill Marjolaine. It is Marjolaine who haunts her. When she is left alive, Leliana eventually seeks her out again because of unresolved issues. When you kill Marjolaine Leliana feels free to pursue who own life goals. Unhardened Leliana who has killed Marjolaine is placed in charge of the chantry guard at the urn of sacred ashes. In this scenario she gets to use her skills in a positive, life affirming way and is very happy to do so.

Okay Errant, its now time for my morning cup o' joe.

Thanks! I'm no good before 2 cups....

[Patriciachr34]

Well, to save time I have the extra large mega coffee cup.  It saves me trips to the kitchen.

[Giggles_Manically]

I always harden Alistair since he does need a backbone. But I never harden Leliana since she is having a terrible attack of doubt. Alistair in is confused and a little lost, but the Warden convinces him that he should decide his own fate instead of being a pushover. Leliana on the other hand is also lost, but she cant see which person she is. On one hand she thinks she is trying to be a good person and be merciful, while the other side she sees is the Bard Assassain she used to be.



The two ways it goes is convinving her that she is a good person and can leave her old life behind, while the flip side is reinforcing her old life, and telling her that she cant really leave it behind. This is somewhat similar to a Light Side/Dark Side path in Star Wars.



All you really tell Alistair to do is grow some balls.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The two ways it goes is convinving her that she is a good person and can leave her old life behind, while the flip side is reinforcing her old life, and telling her that she cant really leave it behind. This is somewhat similar to a Light Side/Dark Side path in Star Wars.

Don't you think it's wrong to tell someone to continue to be false, though?  She admits that she made up her vision, for instance.  I feel like she's putting on a front for people of what she thinks they want to be and I'd like to tell her to just drop it, without confirming that it's fine she used to murder people.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The two ways it goes is convinving her that she is a good person and can leave her old life behind, while the flip side is reinforcing her old life, and telling her that she cant really leave it behind. This is somewhat similar to a Light Side/Dark Side path in Star Wars.

Don't you think it's wrong to tell someone to continue to be false, though?  She admits that she made up her vision, for instance.  I feel like she's putting on a front for people of what she thinks they want to be and I'd like to tell her to just drop it, without confirming that it's fine she used to murder people.

I don't see it as false at all. That's only true if you believe that people are incapable of change, or redeeming themselves. Leliana is at a fork in the road. She can either continue to do what the's done before, about which she has regrets, even if she misses the excitement, or she can embrace change and find a way to fufill herself in more positve ways.

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The two ways it goes is convinving her that she is a good person and can leave her old life behind, while the flip side is reinforcing her old life, and telling her that she cant really leave it behind. This is somewhat similar to a Light Side/Dark Side path in Star Wars.

Don't you think it's wrong to tell someone to continue to be false, though?  She admits that she made up her vision, for instance.  I feel like she's putting on a front for people of what she thinks they want to be and I'd like to tell her to just drop it, without confirming that it's fine she used to murder people.

When does this happen? The only instance I can recall is with  the guardian, and then she denies his statement.

[ejoslin]

Leliana is more willing to accept responsibility for her own fate rather than just leaving things in the hands of the maker if she's hardened. IF you get the proper dialog, that is.

Edit: to put in the missing letters!

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 juin 2010 - 08:12 .