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[Giggles_Manically]

She does not admit to making it up, she says that "maybe she just made it up to be important, or not feel lost" Addai67's hate is clouding her recollection and quoting. SHe tells you this after you confront Marjorlane (that still sounds like something you put on toast to me)

[Giggles_Manically]

DOUBLE POST AGAIN!

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 20 juin 2010 - 08:12 .

[Wedger]

Her outfit differs after the coronation...

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She does not admit to making it up, she says that "maybe she just made it up to be important, or not feel lost" Addai67's hate is clouding her recollection and quoting. SHe tells you this after you confront Marjorlane (that still sounds like something you put on toast to me)

Heh, well it sounds to me like you're just confirming what I said.  But feel free, if you have access to the toolset, to quote the actual conversation.

[Zjarcal]

It's not so much that she makes up her vision as the way she interprets the dream she tells you about when you ask her about her vision.



When she describes her vision all she talks about is the ugly tree (or flower, can't remember exactly) that now looked beautiful. There is no mention of the Maker actually speaking to her. She interprets the dream as a sign that even amongst all the chaos of the blight there is still beauty to be found and fighting against the blight is worth it if it can save some of that beauty.



The whole vision thing is obviously a bit of an exaggeration but nonetheless it's something that inspires her to help others and to join the Warden in the fight against the blight. It helped her gain a purpose in life after feeling so lost. That's hardly a bad thing if you ask me.



As for the hardening issue, I never harden her. Marjolaine had such an influence in her life and her betrayal left her so emotionally devastated that it's understandable if she once again feels conflicted after the things Marjolaine says in her personal quest. Much like Jowan, Leliana is a good person who made some bad decisions and is now looking for redemption. I'm all up for that.



Finally I wanted to say that I feel that "unhardened" Leliana is a stronger person than "hardened" Leliana. A "hardened" Leliana will essentially do whatever the Warden says, back off when defiling the ashes, join her in a threesome (without even consulting with her first), etc., while an "unhardened" Leliana will actually stand up for what she believes in. That's why I never harden her and just tell her "you strive to be good, that's what's important".

[Giggles_Manically]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She does not admit to making it up, she says that "maybe she just made it up to be important, or not feel lost" Addai67's hate is clouding her recollection and quoting. SHe tells you this after you confront Marjorlane (that still sounds like something you put on toast to me)

Heh, well it sounds to me like you're just confirming what I said.  But feel free, if you have access to the toolset, to quote the actual conversation.

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

I think she's just expressing doubt over whether or not it was trule a vision.  She had the nightmare, and then saw the rose, and interpreted it as the Maker speaking to her.  So I think she's just saying maybe  her interpretation was wishful thinking.

[Kryyptehk]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

I think she's just expressing doubt over whether or not it was trule a vision.  She had the nightmare, and then saw the rose, and interpreted it as the Maker speaking to her.  So I think she's just saying maybe  her interpretation was wishful thinking.

That's what I thought it was. I think she just had a weird dream and thought it was a vision because of her devotion to the Maker. The attention she got from the sisters seemed to be a lucky side effect.

I don't think that her vision was real, but I think that her devotion is. But to her, if her vision wasn't real, maybe her whole faith in the Maker wasn't either.

That's what I thought anyway.

[Sammy0721]

I don't see Leliana as a chantry sister and it is not a clear cut good/evil choice.

1st. Wynne has a conversation with Lei regarding the chant and the purpose of reciting the chant correctly. (Leliana has her own interpretation of the maker and chants which isn't what the chantry wants)

2nd. A good part of the dragon age morality is performing questionable acts for the greater good. Sometimes a war trained Mabari, redeemed Quanari, a maleficar witch, or betrayed bard/assassin is needed to save Fereldan from the blight.

3rd. Technically speaking only Andraste can talk to the maker, but there is no reason why Leliana had a dream/nightmare about the blight which she interprets as a sign to help the warden

4th. Wardens for the most part use the Duncan morality code (utilize blood mages or maleficars or even a traitor like Logaine) whatever it takes to defeat the blight. In the city elves origin (Soris) states Duncan wants to remain neutral regarding the capture and rape of the 4 elven maidens

Alistair even accuses the Warden of taking advantage of Leliana's situation (good for you yes, not so good for her converastion)

[DWSmiley]

Master Shiori wrote...

On one of my playrhroughs I left hardened Leliana in the camp before going off to defile the Ashes.

Funny enough, once I got back to camp she never questioned me about my actions. I just got the normal "You're seen and touched Andraste's Ashes" line.

Wynne, ofc, left immediately.

Not sure if that a bug or what...

It's a bug, imo.  The game only allows for one confrontation when returning to camp and Wynne's takes precedence.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

I think she's just expressing doubt over whether or not it was trule a vision.  She had the nightmare, and then saw the rose, and interpreted it as the Maker speaking to her.  So I think she's just saying maybe  her interpretation was wishful thinking.

I see, that makes sense.

[Addai]

Sammy0721 wrote...

Alistair even accuses the Warden of taking advantage of Leliana's situation (good for you yes, not so good for her converastion)

Which is ironic, since the only reason I take her along is his plea for her to come along!

[Giggles_Manically]

Addai67 wrote...

Sammy0721 wrote...

Alistair even accuses the Warden of taking advantage of Leliana's situation (good for you yes, not so good for her converastion)

Which is ironic, since the only reason I take her along is his plea for her to come along!

What makes no sense is his demanding to be king in the Landsmeet, then 10 mintues later he yells at me for doing that?

[Chuvvy]

If you marry Anora, she'll still be with you.



Side note, if you leave her unhardened, and marry Anora and let Marjoline live she goes back to her. That chick is craaazy.

[Chuvvy]

Wedger wrote...

Her outfit differs after the coronation...

Really? Interesting.

[Zjarcal]

Slidell505 wrote...



If you marry Anora, she'll still be with you.



Side note, if you leave her unhardened, and marry Anora and let Marjoline live she goes back to her. That chick is craaazy.

I have never read the epilogue slide for that ending but based on what I've read on the wiki page for the epilogue, the way I interpret that ending is that she goes back to seek Marjolaine to finish her revenge, not to get back with her. At least that's how I interpret what I read on the wiki.

[OldMan91]

Slidell505 wrote...

If you marry Anora, she'll still be with you.

Side note, if you leave her unhardened, and marry Anora and let Marjoline live she goes back to her. That chick is craaazy.

I haven't seen that epilogue slide. I've been searching in the toolset epilogue slideshow conversation, but nothing.

[Itkovian]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No you said:
She says she made it up
I said:
She says MAYBE I just made it up, and i was wrong

Those are two different things, and I do not need the toolset since I have heard this eight times and remeber  it very well, but if it makes you happy I will take a pic in fraps to show you.

I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

That's pretty much how it works with religious experiences: there's no way to prove if it was real or not.

Maybe it was, in fact, all in her mind and she was just confabulating things. Or maybe it really was a sign from the Maker. Maybe it was wishful thinking.

In short: she's not saying that she fabricated the expeirence willfully, but rather that maybe she was reading too much into it.

Itkovian

[Addai]

Itkovian wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I accept your word, but what is the difference?  She doesn't know if she made it up or not?    That sounds to me like at least a halfway admission that she did, but doesn't want to admit it perhaps to herself.

That's pretty much how it works with religious experiences: there's no way to prove if it was real or not.

Maybe it was, in fact, all in her mind and she was just confabulating things. Or maybe it really was a sign from the Maker. Maybe it was wishful thinking.

In short: she's not saying that she fabricated the expeirence willfully, but rather that maybe she was reading too much into it.

Itkovian

I see what you're saying, but does she really not know her own mind well enough to know whether or not she was intentionally misleading people?  Perhaps she doesn't and this is part of her character, since being a bard you would have to adopt many guises and it becomes difficult to separate one reality from another.