532 réponses à ce sujet

[Raonar]

Should i mention that the blood rose is actually a secondary plot point?
*hides*

[Glorfindel709]

I remember how the blood rose was used to help heal Alim after he overtaxed himself with the SotC, Blood Magic Tornados of doom, and getting an arrow through the lung....

[Raonar]

I'm not done with it yet...

[Glorfindel709]

Of course you're not...

*facepalm*

I'm going to guess it's going to have something to do with phylactery style tracking

[Raonar]

Nope, that's not it, though the idea will be brought up at some point.

See? I'm not all secretive )

[Glorfindel709]

Raonar wrote...

Nope, that's not it, though the idea will be brought up at some point.

See? I'm not all secretive )

[Raonar]

Hey, I do NOT lie! How rude! I just say the truth in such a manner that people believe whatever I want them to think (or fail to consider points I want them to miss). or at least i try to. The DN is just so much better at it

Modifié par Raonar, 27 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[Glorfindel709]

>.< *points at* Your doom will be served cold, soothsayer!

[Raonar]

*snorts*

[Raonar]

Well, the positively humongous Chapter 46: Care of All Kinds (Archive of our Own) is finally up there I guess.

I need a drink and some cake.

[Costin_Razvan]

You do know Bhelen believed that by killing his older siblings he would give his father no choice but to allow him to take the crown.

Hell, as Sarah put in in her FF. Endrin allowed the DN to be exiled so that at least Bhelen could rule without an issue in Orzammar but then disowned Bhelen since he realized Bhelen was going go against his precious traditions.

"Shrug" How about you don't make some character that people quite like an idiot. Vile sure, that's a personal thing, but an idiot because YOU feel his plan is idiotic going to far.

[Raonar]

Hey, Raonar said he is an idiot, not me. And he has his reasons (plus, this isn't the first time he says it, unless you forgot). Contrary to what you may think, I'm not letting my own opinions (however justified and objective) override his reasoning. So you'll just have to live with the idea that the DN considers Bhelen to be an idiot (and his opinion of Endrin isn't that different).

If you want to know WHY he thinks this... well, you'll just have to wait and see now won't you?

Besides, Bhelen's plan IS idiotic. It only worked (well, half-way) is because of glaring deus ex machinas (well, villain ex machinas). That you refuse to notice them is your own choice (and please don't turn this into another Bhelen gushing thread, will you?)

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Hell, as Sarah put in in her FF. Endrin
allowed the DN to be exiled so that at least Bhelen could rule without
an issue in Orzammar but then disowned Bhelen since he realized Bhelen
was going go against his precious traditions.
.

Are you seriously using someone else's fanfiction interpretation as supporting arguments? Should i understand that you finally realize your point of view might not actually have enough support in canon?

Modifié par Raonar, 31 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Costin_Razvan]

It wasn't that Raonar said he was an idiot ( that I was aware of ), it's that Trian said as well in this latest chapter! ( And if you recall in the Urn of Sacred Ashes Trian says he would praise Bhelen for his cunning if he wasn't the victim ).

Yes I realize Trian has changed, but really?

re you seriously using someone else's fanfiction interpretation as supporting arguments? Should i understand that you finally realize your point of view might not actually have enough support in canon?

My opinion is that Harrowmont played a huge part in influencing Endrin to give the throne to him, but that is more speculation on my part then anything else. Sarah's interpretation however follows game proof in regards to this. ( Then again the CANNON story also wants you exiled no matter what but regardless of that it does make sense ).

Regardless of what you do you get exiled and your father does squat even if you are innocent, yes this is a plot device but in the letter ( without bothering to argue this point ) he does specify HE did not act because it would shame his house.

Yet he also IS a traditionalist ( the Kal Sharok issue proves this ) and Bhelen is against tradition, or do you REALLY believe that the father who let his second son get exiled so he could save face for his house would disown his youngest son over something as petty ( yes petty in politics ) as Bhelen being a snake? Sorry I don't buy it.

Orzammar is based on Byzantine Politics, and that follows the rules of mass slaughter among the nobles houses. Hell they even lost the recipe for Greek Fire because of this ( since the recipe was only known by the Royal House ).

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 31 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Plus the rumor is that Endrin got his older brother killed in a Proving against a KNOWN carta killer.

So daddy dearest is not the nicest fellow really.

[Raonar]

The Trian at the urn of sacred ashes is more than partially a mirror of your own subconscious (or the subconscious of how much of an idiot game mechanics force the Warden to be). Plus, regardless of how you two fawn over Bhelen's not-really-proven cleverness, I can't really see how expecting daddy dearest to praise you for killing his children could possibly count as non-idiotic, Byzantine culture or not.

Plus, Bhelen is the only one in the game that even says Endrin arranged his brother's death (conveniently, just how on EARTH the DN, who 'struggled against brotehr and cousin for honor and prestige' and owned the field... lived his entire life without even stumbling upon the rumor is left in the air... and that's plot hole number *insert any number of digits here*). And honestly, Bhelen is so delusional about so many things that I am having trouble trusting any of his assumptions, not to mention his 'promises.'. It's very likely that Bhelen convinced himself of this so as to 'justify' his murderous pettiness, the same way he frames YOU, tries to frame Harrowmont over and over, etc. (that no one but him seems to even suspect this, Trian and the DN included, actually supports this idea).

Modifié par Raonar, 31 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[Giggles_Manically]

... fan fic writers....

No offense to the rest of you.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 31 mars 2011 - 09:13 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Plus, regardless of how you two fawn over Bhelen's not-really-proven cleverness, I can't really see how expecting daddy dearest to praise you for killing his children could possibly count as non-idiotic, Byzantine culture or not.

Who said PRAISE him, who said even LIKE him?

You mistake trying to preserve the throne in your own House ( House that is so important to Endrin he wouldn't smear it's name by allowing you a fair trial ) to me trying say Endrin liked Bhelen's initiative.

So no, Bhelen expecting his father to let him have the throne was not idiotic regardless of what you might think.

It's very likely that Bhelen convinced himself of this so as to 'justify' his murderous pettiness, the same way he frames YOU, tries to frame Harrowmont over and over, etc. (that no one but him seems to even suspect this, Trian and the DN included, actually supports this idea).

Do you have anything to support this claim? Yes only Bhelen states but there is nothing to suggest he is not telling the throne.

You talk as if Bhelen is some sort of exception to the rule of murderous nobles, when he is just like any other noble of the era ( and before you disapprove of this, go read about medieval lords )

Even some of the so called honored nobles we remember today would be worse then Bhelen is. Case in point Stephan the Great. Common history does not comment on the many wives he had, the adultery he commited, the fact his troops pillages, burned and raped enemy villages, that he fought with the Wallachians, the people he murdered/assassinated or imprisoned for life.

Medieval Kings believed themselves only answerable to God, and Stephan was no exception but today many people just remeber him as a saint. Well some saint he was! Seriously Bhelen is tame compared to him.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 31 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[Raonar]

You know... it's amazing how you completely miss the entire point of my fanfiction and what the DN is doing... and how single-minded and scewed your 'vision' is. You wilfully blind (scroll down) Machivellians really should learn some respect. It takes a certain kind of naivite to start preaching at people the way you do, even though I specifically asked not to derail this thread into yet another 'Let's worship Bhelen' tirade.

Don't expect me to take you seriously if you actually presume to actually know the extent of my education (and even go so far as to think you know what I should read on) just from the fact that I happen to disagree with you. Shouldn't you be an adult?

This kind of immaturity boggles my mind...

Modifié par Raonar, 31 mars 2011 - 09:32 .

[Costin_Razvan]

You know... it's amazing how you completely miss the entire point of my fanfiction and what the DN is doing... and how single-minded and scewed your 'vision' is

Do please go on ahead to tell me how my vision is screwed since I believe Bhelen is a good leader. Have you any sort of real argument to provide against that beside ( Bhelen is murderous tyrant! ).

This is not just about him taking power but once he takes it you have failed to provide anything to sustain that he would be a bad king for Orzammar...hell the only person who ever provided a strong argument against Bhelen's reforms has been Sarah, stating that his son could undo everything he worked on which is absolutely true.

I am single minded really? Am I the guy clinging to moral values being important? What your DN is trying to do is trying is a plan with holes the size of Jupiter in it. What if the Nobles and their Warrior Houses that server them arise in open rebellion if the King will refuse to play their game, what then?

You defeat them but do you really expect them to just be changed in their very nature? The issue with your grand illustrious plan is that while Trian might hold power as long as he lives then after he dies things will go badly very quickly. You can't change a society like Orzammar in a peaceful manner to actually end up with a political system where the nobles are not scheming bastards, it just won't work.

You wilfully blind (scroll down) Machivellians really should learn some respect. It takes a certain kind of naivite to start preaching at people the way you do, even though I specifically asked not to derail this thread into yet another 'Let's worship Bhelen' tirade.

Respect is earned, not expected ( To quote the old saying ). But do please insult us by saying we don't see fault in Bhelen because we worship him or something. Apparently taking a liking into a character and rebuking the vast majority of haters against him ( not talking of you ) who speak of him as an ****, murdered and tyrant makes you some sort of fanatic. Laughable.

I like Bhelen, but do I deny he is ruthless? No. Do I deny he is a murderer? No. Do I deny he is a smug bastard. No. I do however like him since he is a good leader for people, and one doesn't need to be a self sacrificing person to be a good leader, in fact quite the opposite. A little bit of greed will help such a person.

Don't expect me to take you seriously if you actually presume to actually know the extent of my education (and even go so far as to think you know what I should read on) just from the fact that I happen to disagree with you. Shouldn't you be an adult?

This kind of immaturity boggles my mind...

But do please be expected to be taken seriously when you flat out state you hate Bhelen "worshipers" and basically flame us all. Arguments are all well and nice and it is with great pleasure that I often take part in such arguments in regards to my favorite people in history, but arguments are worthless when you start throwing insults about people's favorite characters and expect them to see your point afterwards.

[Raonar]

Sigh.

Modifié par Raonar, 31 mars 2011 - 10:33 .

[Raonar]

I just got any worries about Faren's weapon being too un-DAO-like completely dispelled. Apparently, Utha, from the calling, used nunchucks to fight the high dragon.

"Two lengths of steel connected by a short length of chain" indeed. It's called a dwarven double-club.

What will they think of next?

[Costin_Razvan]

I was also under the impression she fought with her bare fists most of the time?

[Raonar]

Yep. And she could crush darkspawn throats easily with her outstretched fingers. Astyth the Grey-type smackdown indeed.

[Raonar]

Chapter 47: Acquaintance in Pieces (Archive of Our Own) is now posted.

[Costin_Razvan]

Honorable? Dace? Helmi?

Seriously? Those guys are HONORABLE?!

I won't even get into the House Harrowmont discusson, anyone who buys votes to win is NOT honorable.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 avril 2011 - 09:42 .