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[Raonar]

Actually, in Orzammar terms, they are. Context, yes?

Modifié par Raonar, 18 avril 2011 - 05:18 .

[Raonar]

Chapter 48: The Third Deal (Archive of Our Own) now posted, along with an Intermission.

And for those wishing to launch into yet another pro-Bhelen tirade, don't bother doing it here, because I will ignore all post of that kind. Use this thread I started if you really must.

[Rexiselic]

I fear I have already used my "interesting tale, comrade" comment for the day, but it would not suffice anyway.

I have just finished reading the first chapter and I am enjoying the story you have come up with Raonar. It is certainly interesting. I am terrible at communicating with... words... and stuff... but you do it quite well! Err, yes, that is what I mean to say I think.

I had some other point, but it got lost in the shuffle of my mental process.

Edit: Now I remember the comment I wanted to give. While I am still enjoying the story and am curious as to how things will turn out for Orzammar in your version of things, I do not particularly like the protagonist. He is just too awesome, too mary sue-ish. Almost like the character himself has read the dragon age wiki.

Take that as you will.

Modifié par Rexiselic, 20 avril 2011 - 06:22 .

[Raonar]

Rexiselic wrote...

I fear I have already used my "interesting tale, comrade" comment for the day, but it would not suffice anyway.

I have just finished reading the first chapter and I am enjoying the story you have come up with Raonar. It is certainly interesting. I am terrible at communicating with... words... and stuff... but you do it quite well! Err, yes, that is what I mean to say I think.

I had some other point, but it got lost in the shuffle of my mental process.

Edit: Now I remember the comment I wanted to give. While I am still enjoying the story and am curious as to how things will turn out for Orzammar in your version of things, I do not particularly like the protagonist. He is just too awesome, too mary sue-ish. Almost like the character himself has read the dragon age wiki.

Take that as you will.

He seems like that a bit at first... and then stuff just starts happening. The point is that I gave at least one level in badass to pretty much everyone (both heroes -there are six wardens, + Alistair here- and bad guys/monsters). While he has, so far, maintained his schemer status, he's definitely not the most powerful (the elven mage is that, clearly) and he had to be saved more times than all other characters (combined).

Basically, I added a level of epicness to everything (demons are actually powerful, the Archdemon is more than just a distant threat, Ostagar blows up in people's face a bit...okay, a lot worse than in Canon, literally etc.). And fear not, he has his set of issues, among other things. They just become apparent over time.

Anyway, read up until chapter 4-5-6. If it breaks your suspension of disbelief by then, then I probably could have done something differently. Then again, one's mileage can always vary.

[Rexiselic]

I've read chapters 1-5 and I'm sorry to say that I let my hopes get too high. I think that with certain changes I could like it... I don't know how to describe it well.

It just feels like Raonar himself is too awesome, as I said. I find him unrealisticlly perspective among other things and my curiousity has been squashed by my disinterest in Gary Sue characters.

I am not really sure if it is the way in which his actions are described or the very actions themselves, but that is all really. It is the one thing that I don't like, but unfortunately it is enough to cause me to not want to read it any longer.

[Raonar]

Aha, alright then, no hard feelings, I can totally see where you're coming from. I guess the problem is that I had the other characters come in and add their own stories to the plot (and show how they outclass him in certain areas) a bit too late.

If it helps any, he has to be rescued in chapter 7 (for the first time anyway) and then is out of commission for a while as the story starts to be told from other characters' perspective (and it's no longer just about him). I actually rotated the chapters among all other wardens and companions.

But still, I get your impression.

As a side note, though, I took the original Mary Sue litmus test just yesterday and he turned out to be 31-34, which is just under the sue threshold of 35 (for that test anyway). I just took maybe a bit too long bringing the foils and real challenges in (and exploring his and everyone else's psychological issues).

EDIT: And thanks for the first real bout of actual constructive criticism

Modifié par Raonar, 22 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Rexiselic]

That's me, I'm all about truths and harsh judgements.

[Raonar]

Though Your Mileage May Vary still applies, yes? As with everything else, really.

Modifié par Raonar, 22 avril 2011 - 07:33 .

[Rexiselic]

Raonar wrote...

Though Your Mileage May Vary still applies, yes? As with everything else, really.

I don't understand, what do you mean by that?

[Raonar]

Rexiselic wrote...

Raonar wrote...

Though Your Mileage May Vary still applies, yes? As with everything else, really.

I don't understand, what do you mean by that?

Ah, this. Essentially, it means that everything is relative.

[Rexiselic]

That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

[Costin_Razvan]

I think one rather big mistake you made with this fiction was that you made your Wardens so badass, extremely powerful in their own right. Now that's all well and good if you want to make a fiction that's a lot more about the events going around people then the people themselves but I see you focus a lot on the characters, trying to get people to sympathize/relate to them.

To which I say it's extremely hard to look at them as normal people with fears, regrets, lovers etc. since they are uber ( pardon the term but it fits ). I can like Raonar for his clever plans, but I can't feel sorry for him when he is sad ( like the whole episode of him and Alim talking about kids ) since a few chapter earlier the guy went Dragon Ball Z on the Darkspawn.

This applies to everyone of your Wardens. It's like trying to imagine a crying Chuck Norris, nope can't happen.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 avril 2011 - 12:14 .

[Glorfindel709]

I kind of have an issue with this chapter... you talk about how the fade twists itself to represent the truth if a demon tries to lie... that is entirely false, both in Lore and Gameplay. Specifically this core of Raos' mocking talk to Pride. "The Fade instantly changes to reflect what you spirits decide is truth. So if you lied about anything, like when approaching a mage in a dream, a new truth would appear, that you are lying, and the Fade would make it known to whoever you are trying to con.""

Fenryiel gets lied to twice by the demons, demons who by the way twist and change your own image in their perspective. When you're trapped in the fade, the demons lie to your companions, twist and shape the world to make it a new truth for the dreamer and keep them chained to that new truth they've created based on the perceived desires of the dreamer. Demons lie all the time, like when the Desire demon creates an entirely false world based on the Templars desires for a family. They shape everything based on the diagram of the dreamers desires, but then once inside that they can twist and manipulate the Dreamer as much as they want, so long as they operate within their desires or memories or experiences that are being called upon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, the descriptions of when Raonar goes Super Spirit Saiyan against Pride with the "hurk" and the "guooh" and the  Kamehameha Wave made me go in my head "Hey, I didnt know I was reading a manga DBZ/DAO cross over. It just came off as kinda crazy.. just saying

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 25 avril 2011 - 07:08 .

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I kind of have an issue with this chapter... you talk about how the fade twists itself to represent the truth if a demon tries to lie... that is entirely false, both in Lore and Gameplay. Specifically this core of Raos' mocking talk to Pride. "The Fade instantly changes to reflect what you spirits decide is truth. So if you lied about anything, like when approaching a mage in a dream, a new truth would appear, that you are lying, and the Fade would make it known to whoever you are trying to con.""

Fenryiel gets lied to twice by the demons, demons who by the way twist and change your own image in their perspective. When you're trapped in the fade, the demons lie to your companions, twist and shape the world to make it a new truth for the dreamer and keep them chained to that new truth they've created based on the perceived desires of the dreamer. Demons lie all the time, like when the Desire demon creates an entirely false world based on the Templars desires for a family. They shape everything based on the diagram of the dreamers desires, but then once inside that they can twist and manipulate the Dreamer as much as they want, so long as they operate within their desires or memories or experiences that are being called upon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, the descriptions of when Raonar goes Super Spirit Saiyan against Pride with the "hurk" and the "guooh" and the  Kamehameha Wave made me go in my head "Hey, I didnt know I was reading a manga DBZ/DAO cross over. It just came off as kinda crazy.. just saying

Yes, I know the so-called explanation might not be perfect, and it could just be Rao talking and saying things in his ever so annoying way. After all, his intention was to ****** Pride off. On the other hand, you forget that in DA2, the dream you are into is made by Feynriel himself, who is a mortal and can perform inception (creating an idea). As such, the Demons themselves didn't actually create the lies they told there so much as play the parts that Feynriel distributed and decided/wished were true.

Also, it was the illusions that made those promises to Feynriel (that they'll always be together or whatever) and i'm pretty sure that, if he'd fallen for it, the demons would have definitely kept up the illusion, so they probably weren't lying at all. It was Feynriel that chose, although on a deep level, to believe the images were true (although Hawke changing into other people kind of doesn't fit with how people seemed to get back and stay themselves after they realize where they are, like in The Calling. Maybe it's a dreamer thing....).

So, dreamers could be the loophole that demons need to outright lie and get away with it, so to speak, since it's not they, per se, that shape the Fade in that instance. Maybe this is why they want him so badly too.

As for the DBZ resemblance... I'm pretty sure everything Rao did was less flashy that what Warriors, especially Templars, can do in DA2. Well, minus the aura thing, maybe, but those are practically canon anyay if we were to count Awakening (although the game devs seem to have disregarded most decisions in the expansion anyway...)

Finally, him going super mode (if you really can call it that, since it's more of a removal of the subconscious limiter humans have on their physical strength) it was actually something that will bite him and a lot of other people in the rear soon enough.

People have been eagerly waiting to see him screw things up. Well, they'll get their wish fulfilled and this letting loose episode already played its part.

[Glorfindel709]

Oh I understand - but you didnt mention any of the DAO points I pointed out in regards to the logic of the people who are ensnared by demons or trapped in dreams.

The illusion is the lie though. Fenryiel wasnt trained enough to create and willfully move about the Fade, he was trapped in the illusions of his desires and his pride until we, twisted by the power of the illusion of the demons, snapped him out of it.

Not at all actually - I never remember my warrior being surrounded in a nimbus of light and leaping through yards of space and air to land a energy kick in the face of a pride demon, and I fought like twelve of them.... nor do I remember leaping forward with a ball of swirling energy and screaming Kamehameha!!!!!! at an enemy before watching his arm get blasted off (seriously, that happens like 5 times in -DBZ. Freeza, Cell, Android Dr G, Cooler.....

[Whisk3y]

Faren looks completely different from what I expected him to. I don't know why, but every time I see his name I think of a really short guy with maroon hair in a pony tail, an almost black duster(the jacket, not the Duster Dwarves) and a really cool pair of black shades....weird. Anyways, I love the story. It reminds me of another really great story with all of the origins called Victory at Ostagar by Arsinoe de Blassenville of Fanfiction.net. Hope to see more soon.

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Oh I understand - but you didnt mention any of the DAO points I pointed out in regards to the logic of the people who are ensnared by demons or trapped in dreams.

The illusion is the lie though. Fenryiel wasnt trained enough to create and willfully move about the Fade, he was trapped in the illusions of his desires and his pride until we, twisted by the power of the illusion of the demons, snapped him out of it.

Not at all actually - I never remember my warrior being surrounded in a nimbus of light and leaping through yards of space and air to land a energy kick in the face of a pride demon, and I fought like twelve of them.... nor do I remember leaping forward with a ball of swirling energy and screaming Kamehameha!!!!!! at an enemy before watching his arm get blasted off (seriously, that happens like 5 times in -DBZ. Freeza, Cell, Android Dr G, Cooler.....

I'm afraid I only got to see DBZ until Frieza knocked Goku around and killed Krillin, which pushed Goky to SSJ for the first time... then it stopped airing and I never got around to seeing it again or reading whatever manga there is:))

And at least Rao didn't call his attacks. Plus, it was more of a Rasengan

Feynriel may have been fooled by the illusions, but the place
itself (the Gallows imitation) was built by him and, in the end, also
destroyed by him (if you don't kill him).

Note that I am just trying to explore some things that we know work in DA just because Word of God says so. I doubt I'll ever really have a perfect explanation (especially with some thigns just butting heads, like enemy mages teleporting while it should not be possible, or us suddenly learning that there ARE mortals who can shape the fade).

The aura exists in DAO: Awakening, just as intense, only gets pink at top level (real men wear pink I guess ) and actually makes the character transparent too, so I think I stayed closer to reality than the game did, or at leats close enough (YMMV of course). Plus, templars in DA2 blast things about with Holy Smite all the time (which essentially amounts to flexing their muscles and practically blowing everyone away through the air, much like a mind blast would) and are actually depicted blinking in and out of existence during special attacks O.o. (I know I know, game mechanics and eye candy, but eh, what can you do?)

Whisk3y wrote...

Faren looks completely different from what I expected him to. I don't know why, but every time I see his name I think of a really short guy with maroon hair in a pony tail, an almost black duster(the jacket, not the Duster Dwarves) and a really cool pair of black shades....weird. Anyways, I love the story. It reminds me of another really great story with all of the origins called Victory at Ostagar by Arsinoe de Blassenville of Fanfiction.net. Hope to see more soon.

Well, you got the short part down at least. He's a bit short even by dwarven standards after all. He also has a hair tail, only it's braided, and he does go all black garments, like Batman, when he is in Dark Wolf mode.

As for the longcoats, I have to make sure not to overdo the concept . Alim, which generally amounts to The Ace, already is one and I have another badass longcoat in mind, but not for a while.

Glad you enjoy the story of course

Modifié par Raonar, 26 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Finally, him going super mode (if you really can call it that, since it's more of a removal of the subconscious limiter humans have on their physical strength) it was actually something that will bite him and a lot of other people in the rear soon enough.

People have been eagerly waiting to see him screw things up. Well, they'll get their wish fulfilled and this letting loose episode already played its part.

Well fair enough.

Regardless of what I think of your opinion of Bhelen I must admit that this fiction is very well written...

Just hard sometimes to read through an entire bloody chapter without pausing to rest my eyes, do you really need to make them THAT long?

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Finally, him going super mode (if you really can call it that, since it's more of a removal of the subconscious limiter humans have on their physical strength) it was actually something that will bite him and a lot of other people in the rear soon enough.

People have been eagerly waiting to see him screw things up. Well, they'll get their wish fulfilled and this letting loose episode already played its part.

Well fair enough.

Regardless of what I think of your opinion of Bhelen I must admit that this fiction is very well written...

Just hard sometimes to read through an entire bloody chapter without pausing to rest my eyes, do you really need to make them THAT long?

Actually no. The truth is that I didn't really intend to get them THIS long lately, it just... kind of happens. I take a start point and then an end point, and write everything in between...

I THINK the next one won't be as long but, well, no promises. XD

This is also the reason I've been using "-.  .-" breaks so often, so it's easier for people to track where they left off.

I blame this for the tendency to write so much at once.

Modifié par Raonar, 26 avril 2011 - 01:07 .

[Costin_Razvan]

What is that ...THING? I tried reading it...but damned if it ain't LONG.

P.S. I guess I couldn't ask you to beta read my fictions again?

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What is that ...THING? I tried reading it...but damned if it ain't LONG.

P.S. I guess I couldn't ask you to beta read my fictions again?

That THING is this.

I can beta it, sure.

BTW, itt's not like I took all that flaming to heart, and It's not your fault you didn't really see the real reason I even bothered posting that thing on the forum, besides wanting to avoid thread derailment here (and, in so doing, turned myself into flame bait deliberately).

Although, admittedly, you probably won't believe it even when I do reveal it, not that it matters that much.

EDIT

Although I stand by my opinion that flaming and slurring and whatever ends up converted into *** on the boards is rather.... infantile when directed at other posters.

Modifié par Raonar, 26 avril 2011 - 02:39 .

[Raonar]

Chapter 49: Archnemesis (Archive of our Own) is now posted. This one is JUST 10,000 words long, not 20,000, so yeah, fun times will be had with that.

[Costin_Razvan]

Just 100 Ogres? That seems ....low.

Besides that all good, and thank you for making it shorter

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2011 - 10:56 .

[Rakhasa]

Raonar, there were no Ogres in the last Blight. They are a new developement (as they come from Qunary broodmothers, Qunari arrived to the continent two hundred years ago, and it has been four hundred since the end of the Blight)

[Raonar]

I got the 100 ogre figure from the DA 2 codex or somewhere along those lines. I also am having trouble buying into the figure, but eh, what can you do?

EDIT: Hmm... this page has the codex entry, although it seems there is a tiny bit of room for interpretation. Maybe i'll edit that line in the story somehow, when i get around to it.

EDIT2: Well, I changed that sentence. Should be fine now.

Modifié par Raonar, 28 avril 2011 - 02:47 .