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[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 

Actually, I think your work is great, especially the way you actually seem to know a lot about battle tactics. I only too late realized that my own expedition could have gone so much smoother if I had the soldiers carry some torches.

I have to properly work on the Battle of Denerim to make up for that horrid oversight...  

After studying Warfare for many years of my life, especially Ancient one, I can safely say my teachers would kill me if I couldn't do combat justice....

One of the fault people make with writing battles is that they mostly focus only on the perspective of that character alone and mostly ignore the rest...

My problem is that I suck at writing dialogue....

I suggest also writing Ostagar as a real battle....maybe from Cailan's or Duncan's or maybe Loghain's perspective..."shrug." 

EDIT

Did watch the video and indeed, it does give a clear image.

I could go on about Military Tactics, but honestly images work best for an author, as such I give you my Medieval 2 Campaign....

Medieval 2:KGBM.

The battle occurs at 2:45, although I will try and say as much as I can as to why I make certain tactical decisions the main point is that the battle itself gives you a vivid image of war...even better then movies really.

I knew there was some reason you didn't miss any detail when it came to that Torral Thaig battle.

I will, of course, write Ostagar as a real battle, especially considering that not all wardens will be in the Tower of Ishal while it happens, obviously (two grey wardens are already enough to hold the torch).

The only bad part is that Ostagar is pretty straightforward, just a single path that gets swarmed by darkspawn. And Ferelden, for some reaosns, has no idea what spears or shortswords are

Modifié par Raonar, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:21 .

[Costin_Razvan]

God forbid that any game designer or writer actually take the time to understand what Medieval Warfare actually is.



I mean, what the hell?! Using LONGSWORDS as one handed weapons along with a shield?! The Longsword was a TWO HANDED Weapon which was used on OCCASION as a one handed weapon.



Then there are the greatswords....then of course the daggers which are actually shortswords and not actual daggers save for a few of them...."Sigh."

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

God forbid that any game designer or writer actually take the time to understand what Medieval Warfare actually is.

I mean, what the hell?! Using LONGSWORDS as one handed weapons along with a shield?! The Longsword was a TWO HANDED Weapon which was used on OCCASION as a one handed weapon.

Then there are the greatswords....then of course the daggers which are actually shortswords and not actual daggers save for a few of them...."Sigh."

On the other hand, Ferelden IS described as rather barbaric (thus, less feasible weapons) and it's Orlais that has cavalry and probably the full set of weapons. This barbarism MAY also be part of the reason why it is so UNUSUAL for a Fereldan to know tactics (and why Loghain rules even though he kills a lot of people for very wrong reasons)

[Costin_Razvan]

Some things can't be just rationalized however....A veteran warrior like Loghain would probably do very in using a longsword with a shield.

Normal human soldiers on the other hand....they wouldn't stand much chance in a fight with those, and yet they all use them. ( save for Ash Warriors )

The soldiers charging the darkspawn at Denerim with Longswords held down, thrusting into the darkspawn bodies, was well done. Cavalry would have done it far better though...

I can understand not having certain weapons: Halberds, Pikes, Cavalry, Lances, Spears etc. But I cannot excuse to wrong use of weapons that ARE in the game...to the Devs credit though, the strongest swords in the game are more Half-Swords or Broadswords then actual Longsowrds.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:58 .

[Sarah1281]

Sorry it took so long to read this but, well, holiday. I must say I approve of Vartag getting his ass handed to him by Faren and robbed blind (reading his POV really pissed me off because he's SUCH an ****!) and I hope more bad things happen to him in the future if he absolutely must continued to exist.



Also, congratulations on making me feel sorry for Frandlin Ivo. I honestly did not think that was possible, particularly after I was done talking to Wojech. And I really love Trian's reaction to finding out he was dead. I suppose since he's going to have nothing better to do for the next year or so we can expect a more competent, stronger Trian when Bhelen's plans fall apart around him.

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sorry it took so long to read this but, well, holiday. I must say I approve of Vartag getting his ass handed to him by Faren and robbed blind (reading his POV really pissed me off because he's SUCH an ****!) and I hope more bad things happen to him in the future if he absolutely must continued to exist.

Also, congratulations on making me feel sorry for Frandlin Ivo. I honestly did not think that was possible, particularly after I was done talking to Wojech. And I really love Trian's reaction to finding out he was dead. I suppose since he's going to have nothing better to do for the next year or so we can expect a more competent, stronger Trian when Bhelen's plans fall apart around him.

You know, I'm really glad you said that thing about Frandlin Ivo because I wasn't completely sure I had pulled that one off well enough. Converting someone, earnestly, in any story, is a handful, and it took some effort to actually come up with something believable.

And I notice you hate Vartag. I understand your aversion of him.... totally. But, Bhelen DOES need a second at least as wicked as he is, even though he's a coward. The point was that Faren had to persuade Vartag that there was no doubt as to whether Trian was dead or not. And he did. It was the last piece of the puzzle meant to conceal the entire deal from Bhelen.

Bhelen, right now, really does believe Trian is dead and gone, because he isn't willing to even consider that nobility exists and, thus, wouldn't even consider the prospect of self-imposed exile. That, and he wouldn't consider Raonar actually exiled himself, in part, for him. That IS, after all, what happened.

So even though he is at least as smart as Raonar, he isn't as willing to consider every possibllity, because it would mean he is wrong.

Modifié par Raonar, 05 juillet 2010 - 05:06 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Can one really blame Bhelen for refusing someone noble exists in the nobility?



Seriously. Make Trian King, but do get rid of Assembly, bunch of idiots anyway.

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Can one really blame Bhelen for refusing someone noble exists in the nobility?

Seriously. Make Trian King, but do get rid of Assembly, bunch of idiots anyway.

I never said I blame Bhelen, I didn't mean it to sound like it was an insult. It was just Raonar's logic talking.

Reall, I don't have anything against Bhelen and I'm not even going to turn him into a monster. It was just an answer to Sarah's question about what Bhelen thinks really happened.

As for the Assembly... Trian will do something really, really unusual to them. Kingly might at its best.

But that'll only happen once Raonar gets back to the city.

[Costin_Razvan]

I never said you did hate him Just making an observation....though I can't imagine Bhelen stepping down and allowing Trian to rule...



Hell I can't imagine any noble allowing Trian to rule, ok Harrowmont maybe...

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I never said you did hate him Just making an observation....though I can't imagine Bhelen stepping down and allowing Trian to rule...

Hell I can't imagine any noble allowing Trian to rule, ok Harrowmont maybe...

Raonar will have the crown so he'll make whoever he wants king. The nobles will just have to deal with it.

I will reluctantly keep my mouth shut about what will happen though. I promise it will be completely unexpected but believable. just wait and see.

[Costin_Razvan]

Aye it's hard to keep a major plot point that is AU from game hidden....I did tell someone but only because I wanted to see how possible it would be actually pull it off from a political viewpoint...



"Chuckle." I am curios which of us will pull off the better plot twist that will sure leave people in wonder.

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Aye it's hard to keep a major plot point that is AU from game hidden....I did tell someone but only because I wanted to see how possible it would be actually pull it off from a political viewpoint...

"Chuckle." I am curios which of us will pull off the better plot twist that will sure leave people in wonder.

That sounds like a challenge

I, myself, will tell no one. Ever. Especially not to one of the only two people on these boards that actually reads this fanfic. 

[Costin_Razvan]

That sounds like a challenge

By my ancestors, indeed it is! Raonar might be clever, but Duran is also just as smart! ( though not willing to go with such insane plan as yours because he doesn't need them! )

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That sounds like a challenge

By my ancestors, indeed it is! Raonar might be clever, but Duran is also just as smart! ( though not willing to go with such insane plan as yours because he doesn't need them! )

I think we'll both end up completely stupefying each other and unable to decide whose is better and will probably keep telling the other:

yours is better

no, Yours is better

no, yours

Then Sarah says: Oh shut up, you're being ridiculous.

Then we say: (scoff)

Well, if you're going to be like that, get started on that fifth chapter already

[Costin_Razvan]

I am! Hell nothing sets me off like a competition.

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am! Hell nothing sets me off like a competition.

(scoff) Finally!

[Sarah1281]

Raonar wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sorry it took so long to read this but, well, holiday. I must say I approve of Vartag getting his ass handed to him by Faren and robbed blind (reading his POV really pissed me off because he's SUCH an ****!) and I hope more bad things happen to him in the future if he absolutely must continued to exist.

Also, congratulations on making me feel sorry for Frandlin Ivo. I honestly did not think that was possible, particularly after I was done talking to Wojech. And I really love Trian's reaction to finding out he was dead. I suppose since he's going to have nothing better to do for the next year or so we can expect a more competent, stronger Trian when Bhelen's plans fall apart around him.

You know, I'm really glad you said that thing about Frandlin Ivo because I wasn't completely sure I had pulled that one off well enough. Converting someone, earnestly, in any story, is a handful, and it took some effort to actually come up with something believable.

And I notice you hate Vartag. I understand your aversion of him.... totally. But, Bhelen DOES need a second at least as wicked as he is, even though he's a coward. The point was that Faren had to persuade Vartag that there was no doubt as to whether Trian was dead or not. And he did. It was the last piece of the puzzle meant to conceal the entire deal from Bhelen.

Bhelen, right now, really does believe Trian is dead and gone, because he isn't willing to even consider that nobility exists and, thus, wouldn't even consider the prospect of self-imposed exile. That, and he wouldn't consider Raonar actually exiled himself, in part, for him. That IS, after all, what happened.

So even though he is at least as smart as Raonar, he isn't as willing to consider every possibllity, because it would mean he is wrong.

I did actually write something from Ivo's persepctive once and it helped me sympathize with him more (before meeting Wojech destroyed that) because while I know all of his speech in the game is really slow and hesitant, it seemed like he really did take his sweet time confirming that you had killed Trian for no reason no matter what actually happened so I'd like to think that he did feel a little guilty about it though he was going to do it anyway and I considered that Bhelen was threatening him. Ivo's constantly shifting viewpoints on the whole situation and Raonar in particular as new things kept happening was especially well-done.

I do not actually believe it's possible to at least not be annoyed by Vartag but once I got the 'You should have died in the Deep Roads with Trian' line...seriously, I get what Bhelen was trying to do by having such an obnoxious fallguy as his second but when you look at how polite Dulin is even if you call Harrowmont the usurper and refuse to talk to him then, just going by first impressions, you've got to imagine that Harrowmont gets a lot of first-time players on his side at least initially just due to that.

So since it's been heavily implied that after their mother was killed in an attempt to get to Trian Bhelen went off and poisoned everyone responsible in response, can we assume that that was really the start of his 'everyone sucks so I should be King' thing? That really seems to have been a turning point for the royal family in this story.

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 I did actually write something from Ivo's persepctive once and it helped me sympathize with him more (before meeting Wojech destroyed that) because while I know all of his speech in the game is really slow and hesitant, it seemed like he really did take his sweet time confirming that you had killed Trian for no reason no matter what actually happened so I'd like to think that he did feel a little guilty about it though he was going to do it anyway and I considered that Bhelen was threatening him. Ivo's constantly shifting viewpoints on the whole situation and Raonar in particular as new things kept happening was especially well-done.

I do not actually believe it's possible to at least not be annoyed by Vartag but once I got the 'You should have died in the Deep Roads with Trian' line...seriously, I get what Bhelen was trying to do by having such an obnoxious fallguy as his second but when you look at how polite Dulin is even if you call Harrowmont the usurper and refuse to talk to him then, just going by first impressions, you've got to imagine that Harrowmont gets a lot of first-time players on his side at least initially just due to that.

So since it's been heavily implied that after their mother was killed in an attempt to get to Trian Bhelen went off and poisoned everyone responsible in response, can we assume that that was really the start of his 'everyone sucks so I should be King' thing? That really seems to have been a turning point for the royal family in this story.

That Bhelen started to go down this path once he poisoned all those nobles is something Raonar already stated himself the night prior to the mission. As it is, this isn't really a mystery anymore. How Bhelen's mentality evolved, and how it was linked to what his other family members did or did not but should have done, in his opinion, will be revealed much, and I mean much later.

And Vartag is indeed a ass, I never contested that.


EDIT

And i assume the thing you wrote out of Frandlin's perspective is the "Üse the Murder Knife" chapter of "Four ways to avoid Exile", yes?

Modifié par Raonar, 05 juillet 2010 - 05:47 .

[Sarah1281]

Yes, it was that. I really didn't intend to start seeing how, as much as his betrayal sucks, he really didn't have a lot of options but I'd already written a chapter from Trian's, my DN's, and Gorim's perspectives and if I did it from the Scout's then I'd probably have to give him a name so...



Vartag does actually know how to be polite like when you talk to him while working for Bhelen or if you do crown Bhelen so I just don't understand why he refuses to act like that most of the time. Does he realize Bhelen's need to have someone he can blame all his underhanded tactics on or something and oblige him?



I hope you keep updating regularly because given the work on actual Blight-stopping that needs to be done before returning to Orzammar I can tell the wait is already going to kill me.

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yes, it was that. I really didn't intend to start seeing how, as much as his betrayal sucks, he really didn't have a lot of options but I'd already written a chapter from Trian's, my DN's, and Gorim's perspectives and if I did it from the Scout's then I'd probably have to give him a name so...

Vartag does actually know how to be polite like when you talk to him while working for Bhelen or if you do crown Bhelen so I just don't understand why he refuses to act like that most of the time. Does he realize Bhelen's need to have someone he can blame all his underhanded tactics on or something and oblige him?

I hope you keep updating regularly because given the work on actual Blight-stopping that needs to be done before returning to Orzammar I can tell the wait is already going to kill me.

Yes, there is that. The bad part is that this month will be really crowded for me. I have to move out to another apartment and I also have to work on something else for a project and I might not be able to post the next chapter as quickly as i did these.

I will of course see this through since I think it's turning out rather well, for my first fanfiction at least.

Thanks for reading it btw, even though it's just the two of you and about five more people on FF.net.

[Sarah1281]

I don't know how many read it on ff.net because I can't see your story traffic but the 480 views here seem to indicate a lot more people than just me and Costin are reading it, particularly since the view count doesn't go up if you actually post something.

I love story traffic although probably too much since I can't stand posting anything when it's down...

And I'm glad to hear you intend to stick with this.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 05 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[Raonar]

I mostly tried to get the Orzammar origin part over before I started with my hectic period because I know I at least didn't leave the story hanging quite so horribly.

Anyway, I'm not going to brood, since this thread itself was started just about 15 days ago so it's not like it's been here for that long a time anyway. And I like writing it, so that's enough for me, especially if I know someone else enjoys it as well.

I think I'll abandon the mouse Idea though, even though it would be interesting for it to be the mouse in the fade.

Modifié par Raonar, 05 juillet 2010 - 06:33 .

[Sarah1281]

One thing I can say about your story is that you're probably giving Trian a bigger role then he's had in any other story out there. Most stories that I've seen involving Aeducans address the matter as basically 'Trian's dead but he was a ****** anyway so...WHY BHELEN, WHY?!?!' and then focusing on revenge there. It's also rare to find a more sympathetic view on Bhelen and as much analysis as you've put into Endrin.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 05 juillet 2010 - 07:16 .

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

One thing I can say about your story is that you're probably giving Trian a bigger role then he's had in any other story out there. Most stories that I've seen involving Aeducans address the matter as basically 'Trian's dead but he was a ****** anyway so...WHY BHELEN, WHY?!?!' and then focusing on revenge there. It's also rare to find a more sympathetic view on Bhelen and as much analysis as you've put into Endrin.

Actually, from what I've seen in your own "I am Not a Tragic Figure", you made quite a nice analysis of that letter from Endrin yourself, and I completely agree with it. That "At least Bhelen had only betrayed her once" was an especially unfortunate realization, because it was true. Didn't make me approve of his actions at all, of course, but it was still true.

And I haven't even finished with Endrin yet. And Raonar was actually quiite merciful in his letter to him, since he was well aware that Endrin knew about the whole Bhelen thing beforehand and wasn't going to do anything about it. Hell, he never even stopped suspecting Raonar either, even though he was his favorite. He was just as paranoid as everyone else, though no one can really blame him. And even with that, Raonar was so brutal because, had he been forgiving and loving, Endrin would have felt a whole lot worse about everything and it would have destroyed him all the sooner.

Modifié par Raonar, 05 juillet 2010 - 07:27 .

[Sarah1281]

Something I'd be interested in seeing is some Bhelen-Endrin interaction since all we get in the game is Endrin telling him to shut up and get out of the way so he can talk to the DN. Bhelen's got to have gotten his blatant daddy issues for a reason, right? Not to mention that right now (despite what the letter later says) it seems like Endrin isn't sure what happened.