532 réponses à ce sujet

[Raonar]

Hmm, I never did consider making the US as passing judgement upon Archdemons. I suppose you have a point.

Though really, it's just self defense/survival for a race that was attacked by another. And it's the un-tainted archdemon/old god that calls the darkspawn.

Modifié par Raonar, 12 juillet 2010 - 05:30 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I do not think the Calling from the Old God is an unconscious effort...but rather a conscious one. I cannot see a reason why Morrigan's child would call the darkspawn to it.

If you were trapped under the earth and had the possibility to call for aid, wouldn't you?

There is also a flip side to that argument ( assuming that Morrigan's child does indeed call the Darkspawn ).in that the darkspawn would be called to the surface. As you said. Morrigan is self-serving, and she is clever enough to avoid them. But the fact the Darkspawn would be called to the surface would mean the nations of Thedas wouldn't be able to dismiss as a "Dwarf problem" any longer.

Anyone who feels the Darkspawn will no longer pose a threat once the 7th Archdemon dies is naive. It is shown they do attack Orzammar in great numbers even with the Calling, without it who is to say their attacks wouldn't be much more dangerous ?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 12 juillet 2010 - 05:49 .

[Raonar]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I do not think the Calling from the Old God is an unconscious effort...but rather a conscious one. I cannot see a reason why Morrigan's child would call the darkspawn to it.

If you were trapped under the earth and had the possibility to call for aid, wouldn't you?

There is also a flip side to that argument ( assuming that Morrigan's child does indeed call the Darkspawn ).in that the darkspawn would be called to the surface. As you said. Morrigan is self-serving, and she is clever enough to avoid them. But the fact the Darkspawn would be called to the surface would mean the nations of Thedas wouldn't be able to dismiss as a "Dwarf problem" any longer.

Anyone who feels the Darkspawn will no longer pose a threat once the 7th Archdemon dies is naive. It is shown they do attack Orzammar in great numbers even with the Calling, without it who is to say their attacks wouldn't be much more dangerous ?

Well, that's the point, it's a conscious effort. The old god wants them to come, which pretty much means that it's not just the darkspawn taint that drives them nuts. If they just wanted out, they would get out, they certainly look capable enough. They could just very well just call the humans in their dreams to come and get them out too, though I admit, humans wouldn't have an easy job getting there.

And really, in the end, it's not really a situation where you think about all this. The fact remains that you either destroy the archdemon and stop the blight, or let the blight happen. So, in absence of Morrigan's ritual, I would definitely do US.

And it's pretty clear why Morrigan wants the Old God, she wants to lear magic from them. As I recall ,it was the Old Gods that taught the humans blood magic. Dumat to be exact.

To be honest, during my first playthrough, i agreed to the DR because I had romanced Morrigan (HN) and meh. But it's pretty clear that Morrigan is up to no good if she actually blackmails you by threatening to leave if you don't agree. I don't even want to think what other dark rituals she'll do on the baby as soon as it's born.

There's also the fact that she waits until the last second, when you're already in emotional turmoil and thinking "Ï don't want to die" and how unfair it was that you didn't know beforehand. That Morrigan knew and she didn't tell shows just how high the possbility would be that you WOULD NOT agree if you knew all the facts.

And you said that thing about the child not having a soul. What if the DR had something to do with that?

Morrigan says the taint will die but the old god won't. Riordan says that the sould will be destroyed because the taint in the GW tricks the Archdemon's soul into thinking t's a darkspawn. What if the DR actually destroys the soul, or alters it in some way, in order to change what interacts with what? If it does, then it's Morrigan destroying the sould and, indirectly, you. So the "don't pass judgement upon other souls' line doesn't apply.

And really, I don't presume to have the right to judge at all. The game doesn't really give you much choice in the matter. A soul is destroyed either way. You can believe a child doesn't have a soul if you wish, I hink it does and Morrigan's ritual actually does something to it.


EDIT

I changed my mind, I'll use Siena as te name for the HNF.

EDIT 2

Finally added Theron Mahariel's picture on the first post. It took me DAYS to actually make an elf that didn't cause me to writhe in revulsion at the sight of his face. God...

Modifié par Raonar, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .

[Sarah1281]

I've kind of just accepted that all of my elves will be ugly and pinchy. They have horrible genetics.

About the ritual, though...we don't know when the fetus normally gains a soul (and unless it's at the moment of conception Morrigan's wouldn't have one at the time of the ritual) but since the whole pull that the baby has is that it's a soulless, untained vessel...even if it would have had one normally is it too much of a stretch to believe that the ritual would create a soulless child? Really creepy and who knows what would happen once it was born but it will have a soul: that of the Old God's. If a soul is not created/assigned for the child because of the ritual then it's not like anything is being destroyed.

I also don't feel that the Old Gods call out consciously to the darkspawn because the whole reason their imprisonment works is that they are not conscious. If they were would burying them underground really keep them out of the way for this long? It seems to work as more of a beacon, kind of like how GW call to the darkspawn. Is THAT conscious? No, it just happens. Plus, given that they became tainted and twisted, almost enslaved to the taint and forced to serve as the darkspawn leader I don't see how this could possibly be in their best interests. I actually kind of feel sorry for them because they really can't help calling out to the darkspawn and once they're found they can't help but serve them. If the OG were calling out and could consciously communicate, don't you think they'd try to be more specific about their location? Or are they only capable of mass-producing a siren's song that all tainted beings everywhere can hear and that it ensnares but can't communicate in other ways? We've seen the Archdemon communicate with darkspawn in the Darkspawn Chronicles.

And I'm not so sure that the Old Gods were the straightforward evil the Chantry says they are. All we know is that they are the enemies of the Maker (yes and possibly taught humans blood magic but it's not like they had any control what abuses the Tevinters did with it) but given that the Maker doesn't come off in a very good light even in the Chantry accounts of him, that doesn't mean much as far as morality goes.

Edit: The Ron Mahariel...every time I hear that I think of SurelyForth.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:57 .

[Raonar]

Well, I suppose one can look at it both ways. And I don't think the archdemonsactually know exactly where they are. For instance, as old gods, they were fade spirits. So the Maker, or whoever, may have shoved them into the bodies of dragons that lived underground. Still, there's also the thing about them being reborn from any darkspawn. Sigh.

As it is, there are just enough facts to speculate. The main point of debate is whether the embryo has a soul or not. If we only knew that, we would know what to think. But we don't.


EDIT

So tell me if my characters at least look OK or I should tear their portraits down from that first post

Also, I think Theron is not pronounced The Ron, but with the the from thing. Though i think you already knew that.

Modifié par Raonar, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:05 .

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, they look good. I have no idea how you managed that or how long it must have taken but they don't even look pinchy.

And I know it's not pronounced The Ron but The Ron Mahariel has his own fanclub. And a mafia. And a tendency to replace Zevran. And a suspect relationship with his alternate universe counterpart and a child resulting from that. Yeah...

Edit: See?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:13 .

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, they look good. I have no idea how you managed that or how long it must have taken but they don't even look pinchy.

And I know it's not pronounced The Ron but The Ron Mahariel has his own fanclub. And a mafia. And a tendency to replace Zevran. And a suspect relationship with his alternate universe counterpart and a child resulting from that. Yeah...

Edit: See?

I... am not even going to ask...

[Sarah1281]

I'm guessing you never go to the Alistair thread? Like I said, he's SurelyForth's character.

Edit: I think it is hilarious and would want my own except not even that could interest me enough in playing a Dalish again and my DNs have enough family problems as it is and should they have alternate dimension versions of themselves show up, a bizarre form of suicide would probably end up happening do to their lack of luck with non-kinslaying family members.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:21 .

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm guessing you never go to the Alistair thread? Like I said, he's SurelyForth's character.

Edit: I think it is hilarious and would want my own except not even that could interest me enough in playing a Dalish again and my DNs have enough family problems as it is and should they have alternate dimension versions of themselves show up, a bizarre form of suicide would probably end up happening do to their lack of luck with non-kinslaying family members.

Well, maybe their alternate universe families weren't as interested in kinslaying as those of the Canon universe.

[Sarah1281]

Raonar wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm guessing you never go to the Alistair thread? Like I said, he's SurelyForth's character.

Edit: I think it is hilarious and would want my own except not even that could interest me enough in playing a Dalish again and my DNs have enough family problems as it is and should they have alternate dimension versions of themselves show up, a bizarre form of suicide (if killing your alternate version counts as this) would probably end up happening do to their lack of luck with non-kinslaying family members.

Well, maybe their alternate universe families weren't as interested in kinslaying as those of the Canon universe.

I can only suspend my disbelief so far...

[Raonar]

I just thought of something. What if the Old Gods actually WANT to see and end to their existence? Like the lady of the Forest and the Arcane Warrior spirit in the phylactery do?



Maybe it was really Dumat that taught the first Grey Wardens the joining.

[Sarah1281]

Wasn't he the Archdemon of the time? And how would he know what his tainted blood would do to humans? I think the GW probably learned the Joining because one of the dragon cults around back then decided to drink Archdemon blood instead of normal blood.

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wasn't he the Archdemon of the time? And how would he know what his tainted blood would do to humans? I think the GW probably learned the Joining because one of the dragon cults around back then decided to drink Archdemon blood instead of normal blood.

Meh, it was just a crazy idea that popped into my head. Anyway, Dumat was the dragon of silence and the one who, supposedly, taught the first magisters blood magic.

Modifié par Raonar, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:59 .

[Raonar]

Chapter 9: Grey Wardens to Be is finally up on FF.net.

I still didn't get to the explanation and probably won't next chapter either. But still.

Meanwhile, I added the pictures of the two ladies on the first post. I trust they do not look nauseating.

[Sarah1281]

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a Tabris/Brosca pairing (or even crush since it's a bit premature to assume him liking her means that they're going to get together) before. Also, those pictures of the Wardens were really helpful for visuals.

Out of curiousity, are we going to find out anything more about what's happening back in Orzammar before the actually return? And how soon are they returning? The last treaty?

Edit: It's TWO chapters away?!?!

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:17 .

[Raonar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a Tabris/Brosca pairing (or even crush since it's a bit premature to assume him liking her means that they're going to get together) before. Also, those pictures of the Wardens were really helpful for visuals.

Out of curiousity, are we going to find out anything more about what's happening back in Orzammar before the actually return? And how soon are they returning? The last treaty?

Edit: It's TWO chapters away?!?!

Yes, my apologies, I WAS going to try and bring it all the way to the Joining in this chapter, but things just... dragged on.


Sowwy, it'll be worth it, I pwomise!

And about things in Orzammar, there won't be 'updates' per se, only what Bodahn and tavern rumors can reveal. And it won't be the last treaty, so you won't have to wait THAT long.

EDIT

Also, I already considered the thing about the joining and for them to all survive being overkill. They will all survive, but only because Alim is a blood mage. I'll say no more than that for now.

I just hope I don't get reviews like "How dare you imply [insert origin here] wouldn't survive the Joning!!!" when I say that x would have died if y factor would not have been fulfilled.

Ah well.

EDIT 2

And there are only 6 candidates. Daveth and Jory do not exist in my tale.

EDIT 3

Only 2 wardens will go to the Tower of Ishal

Modifié par Raonar, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:56 .

[Sarah1281]

I can definitely see Duncan and Alistair being all solemn and 'you may perish' and then have six straight successes. Although that may fail to give the recruits a good idea of how things usually go. I wonder if this means Jory Jr. will have a father. He is a knight from Redcliffe so he shouldn't be at Ostagar but on the other hand, he did go serve at Highever...So if only two of them actually go to the Tower, I am curious as to how they'll survive. Not to mention that the rumors should be interesting. I don't think there's any in the game about Orzammar but there is that trader who keeps telling you that Orzammar has shut down no matter how many times you tell him you've fixed it.

[Raonar]

There are those guys that keep gossiping in the major cities, and the Tavern Keeper in Gnawled Noble actually does say "The Dwarf King died" or so rumors say, if you ask him about rumors.



And I did say Jory and Daveth aren't in the tale. I wasn't really planning on saying anything about them, though I suppose some people might expect me to?

[Sarah1281]

I don't think it really matters but I suppose Duncan or Alistair could mention that being a GW is not just about skill as Jory won his tournament and didn't get recruited while Alistair got recruited after losing his.



I have talked to people about rumors but not enough to hear that he died. And I forgot to mention this earlier but I did find it interesting how Theron, uncomfortable with humans, gravitated towards the dwarves as well as Alim.

[Raonar]

Well, I think since Dalish live a long time, they hold grudges longer (Zathrian is evidence number 1). It's like Loghain and most Fereldans resent Orlais. So if, say, an army of orlesians and some from the Free Marches came, Fereldans would obviously be more open to the latter.

Elves can't stand humans. Dwarves are closest to a neutral party, yes?

Modifié par Raonar, 24 juillet 2010 - 09:36 .

[Sarah1281]

I haven't played Awakening with an elf but when I played with a human Velanna kept accusing me of being in league with those who took her sister but when I played as a dwarf she was confused and all 'well...leave me alone, I guess.'



Did your HN and CE have any problems? It didn't sound like they did but they had been in camp together for a few weeks so even if one was all 'an elf that isn't a servant? Weird' and the other was like 'stupid raping shems' then they could have had time to come to an accord.

[Raonar]

You mean problems with each other? No, not really. But I won't get too far into that just yet. Suffice to say, they did some talking and are not exactly friends yet, since it's not exactly all that easy to get over the social barriers. On the other hand, they aren't on bad terms either, mostly because Gwen finds (or found) Vaughan disgusting.



Did you know Vaughan, in Celtic, means small/little? Ironic, isn't it?



And you asked about ages. I checked the toolset some time ago and, though some listed ages aren't feasible (Like Alistair being 32 and Morrigan 30, and Fergus Cousland being 30 even though both his parents are just 40) Bhelen's and Trian's aren't far off.



Trian is supposedly 25, like Cailan, and Bhelen is listed with an age of 21. I preserved these ages in my story.



So, when Raonar was 7, Cailan and Trian were 10 and Bhelen was 6.

[Sarah1281]

So Gwen knew Vaughan before? Even if you follow the game's 'you don't get out of Highever much' approach, we do know that she's been to Denerim so I guess they would probably have crossed paths. Some names really are apropos.



I usually use Bhelen and Trian's listed ages as well but I can never decide if he's 21 in the origin or 21 when a year passes canonically before you return. Endrin's listed age of 50 seems like it would fit, too (although it might be a little young), but it makes Harrowmont going on about how old Endrin is when he himself is listed as sixty to be a bit strange.

[Costin_Razvan]

Good stuff, but I think Raonar should meet Loghain before the War Meeting. would be interesting.



Absolutely loved it when he berated Cailan.

[Raonar]

Bhelen is 20 right now and he'll be 21 by the time the characters go back to Orzammar. Trian will also turn 26 by then.



And of course I'll have Raonar meet Loghain. Actually, I think I'll get started on that tenth chapter right now. I'll bring it all the way to the Joining, I hope. .