115 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluko]

Why does just about everyone label the Human Reaper as a Terminator?

Your blatant accusations make Human Reaper sad...



I mean O.K., yes the Human Reaper looks like a Terminator (somewhat) but so do a lot of other things in Mass Effect. I mean let's take a very obvious example...

Saren
If Saren isn't a "Turian Terminator" I don't know what is. Yet I never hear anyone complain about how lame it was that Saren in the end turned out to be a Terminator.

Saren the Turian Terminator!



Husks
Yes! Believe it or not, everyone's favorite enemy (sarcasm) is actually a Terminator! I mean afterall aren't Husks just cybernetic organisms who's only purpose is to kill?!

Remember kids, red glowly eyes=bad



Shepard
Yes even the vaunted main character of the game series is a Terminator!

Austa la vista baby!



Still not convinced?! Well look here:

Even IG-88 from Star Wars is a Terminator!



But wait a second... Star Wars came out before the Terminator movies. Yet IG-88 is clearly a Terminator! How can this be?! That would make IG-88 a...

TIME PARADOX!!!

Or maybe just because a robot resembles a humanoid form doesn't always make it a Terminator. Hmm...


Okay so maybe the Human Reaper isn't a Terminator afterall or maybe it's just Terminator-esque. But for those of you wondering yes I did create this thread more then to simply post a bunch of Mass Effect/Terminator comparsion pics. (Well okay I did kinda create this thread mostly to post silly pics...)

A lot of people say the Reaper design itself is flawed. Why? Shouldn't a Reaper made from humans well look a little bit human? I mean if Reapers just melted down every sentient species to make generic Reapers why bother collecting us in the first place? Why don't the Reapers just clone one alien species and keep making Reapers from them?

Well perhaps it is because each Reaper is unique. I mean afterall didn't a certain someone say, "we are each a nation"? Could it be that the Reapers might collect the most advanced lifeforms they find, turn them into Reapers, soley so that the Reaper armada is further diversified and becomes stronger as a result? I think so, but maybe that's just me.

But wait a second all the Reapers we've seen look fairly similair. Every single Reaper seems to resemble some sort of Squid/Cuttlefish. How does humanoid robot thingy turn into a giant squid robot?

Well let's think about this. The Human Reaper is actually just a Reaper Larva. Generally most Larva do not resemble the "final form" of their species because they are at very early stage in their growth. So who knows what kind of metamorphosis the Human Reaper might under go.  But this is a machine. Machines don't really grow. That would mean this humanoid form will still have to reside somewhere within in the Reaper. Isn't that a bit silly?
Actually it isn't as far fetched as you might think...




As you can see the Human Reaper we encountered in ME2 is quite puny compared to a full grown Reaper. (This assuming of course the Human Reaper is about 100m in length and that an average Reaper is 2km long.) This humanoid form could easily reside at the heart of the Reaper. In fact I suspect in every Reaper there resides the form of the previous species as the sort of control center if you will. Considering the Reaper design is based off of Cuttlefish I would venture the actual Reaper forms we see are actually just "shells" in way.

Yet how does one melt down a species and then make a robot out of it? I'll admit this puzzles me somewhat. My general consensus is that the Reapers take information from our genetic material and from it construst a new mind representative of that species. Essentially they take our raw genetic code and use it to make what the Reapers believe is a perfect representation of our species. I don't think our genetic material is actually injected into the Reaper, cause well that just does't make a whole lot of sense.

But why melt down our bodies just to get our DNA? Well I can think of two resons:
1)So they can scavenge material from our bodies and convert it into materials useful for their construction purposes. (How this actually works is beyond me, seeing as most humans are made up of primarily of water. But then again Mass Effect is just Science-Fiction and the Reapers already posses a lot of impossible "magic" technology anyways.)
2)It also effectively kills us off. This means the Reaper don't have to worry about us fighting them back for making a Reaper from our DNA. Problem solved.

Now for all intents and purposes I think this probably would have made for a better Human Reaper Larva.


I think people might have found this giant Husk fetus to perhaps make a little more sense in regards to how Reapers come Organic Lifeforms. It certainly would have been freakier. I'm actually surpised they didn't use this concept art for their final design, but I'm sure Bioware has its reasons. (This image comes from the Art Book of ME2 in case you're wondering.)

Well I suppose that about sums it up for me. Personally I liked the Human Reaper Larva as the final Boss for ME2. Sure it looks a bit like a Terminator, but so what? I just don't understand what folks find so bad about it. Maybe everyone thought they were going to fight the Collector General/Harbinger? I mean I did too, but frankly I think the fight with the Human Reaper is likely better. I  certainly wasn't expecting to fight a giant robot. Gameplay aside, though the Human Reaper is the whole final explanation for the Collector abductions. Without it the whole Reaper threat would have amounted to nothing in ME2. Maybe you like it, maybe you hate it, but it is what it is. I'm also guessing that ME3 will also explain a lot more about the Human Reapers purpose and the Reapers true motives. So perhaps in the end it will all make sense.

Modifié par Bluko, 21 juin 2010 - 03:59 .

[Christmas Ape]

Bluko wrote...



Yet how does one melt down a species and then make a robot out of it? I'll admit this puzzles me somewhat. My general consensus is that the Reapers take information from our genetic material and from it construst a new mind representative of that species. Essentially they take our raw genetic code and use it to make what the Reapers believe is a perfect representation of our species. I don't think our genetic material is actually injected into the Reaper, cause well that just does't make a whole lot of sense.

I've been advancing this idea for like two weeks now. ;p

[Ecael]

Kermit the Frog + The Terminator = Saren the Terminator

[rabidhanar]

The Point isn't just the look of the reaper it is it's new backstory...

Most people are mad because of the obvious cop-out in a final boss. The entire ending was flawed, Why would Reapers be made from genetic material to begin with is the most obvious question. Secondly comes the fact that it does look human. The boss was a joke and yes it does look like the terminator. Saren had this issue too but it wasn't as bad. While still a stupid Idea, Saren's implants attacking shepard could potentially be possible because it is reaper tech, we had no idea what it was capable of.



Before the reapers were the big scary enemies we knew almost nothing about, Sovereign as a character was impressive to say the least. Now though, they seem rediculous. Fighting the "larva" really ruined the reapers fear factor to me and I know the same can be said about other people.

[Ecael]

I can think of 4 reasons why they stuck with the species/human-in-a-ship:

• They don't want to reveal the other species that existed
• Flying humanoid species in space wouldn't look intimidating, it would just look silly
• Reapers have multiple Thanix cannons, and thus many of them have several limbs representing cannons
• Having you shoot something that is shaped like a baby would probably get the game banned in several countries (I think)

The Reapers are probably undertaking some neural and genome mapping project - that's why the Collectors kept them around so long. First they map their brains to understand how their memories, knowledge and thoughts are stored and translated, then they map their DNA sequences and melt them.

Maybe building a Reaper out of it allows them to indoctrinate a specific species from long distances?

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 03:59 .

[Bluko]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Bluko wrote...

Yet how does one melt down a species and then make a robot out of it? I'll admit this puzzles me somewhat. My general consensus is that the Reapers take information from our genetic material and from it construst a new mind representative of that species. Essentially they take our raw genetic code and use it to make what the Reapers believe is a perfect representation of our species. I don't think our genetic material is actually injected into the Reaper, cause well that just does't make a whole lot of sense.

I've been advancing this idea for like two weeks now. ;p

Well I would agree with you then.

The "injection tubes" didn't look like they contained DNA but rather some sort of molten substance. But that's just my take on it.

[Christmas Ape]

Bluko wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Bluko wrote...

Yet how does one melt down a species and then make a robot out of it? I'll admit this puzzles me somewhat. My general consensus is that the Reapers take information from our genetic material and from it construst a new mind representative of that species. Essentially they take our raw genetic code and use it to make what the Reapers believe is a perfect representation of our species. I don't think our genetic material is actually injected into the Reaper, cause well that just does't make a whole lot of sense.

I've been advancing this idea for like two weeks now. ;p

Well I would agree with you then.

The "injection tubes" didn't look like they contained DNA but rather some sort of molten substance. But that's just my take on it.

I've been willing to consider that they just strip our physical material down to the (sub?)atomic level and repurpose it - they are a hyper-advanced machine race with alien motives. Possibly it's used as a kind of solid-state semi-organic circuitry, at least in the larva portion - Reaper consciousness and Reaper material might be one and the same, but that's wild speculation. I do stand by the "genetic code as Reaper 'AI' code" theory though.

[Nightwriter]

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

[Sand King]

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

Where is the fun in that.

[Chuvvy]

No, it's a terminator. The other stuff isn't, but the final boss is. They should have kept it the way it looked in the concept art.

[Christmas Ape]

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

I wouldn't normally use this word with machine intelligence, but Legion started it.
Perhaps it's just Reaper orthodoxy. That's simply How It's Done, because it fits The Purpose.
Prepare these humans for ascension.

They're liberating us from our fragile bodies of blood and flesh, from our lives measured in years and decades. We will cease. A Reaper will bear our perfected species onward through eternity.

[Christmas Ape]

Slidell505 wrote...

No, it's a terminator. The other stuff isn't, but the final boss is. They should have kept it the way it looked in the concept art.

Yes, all metal endoskeletons are terminators.
<_<

[Ecael]

Ecael wrote...

I can think of 4 reasons why they stuck with the species/human-in-a-ship:

• They don't want to reveal the other species that existed
• Flying humanoid species in space wouldn't look intimidating, it would just look silly
• Reapers have multiple Thanix cannons, and thus many of them have several limbs representing cannons
• Having you shoot something that is shaped like a baby would probably get the game banned in several countries (I think)

The Reapers are probably undertaking some neural and genome mapping project - that's why the Collectors kept them around so long. First they map their brains to understand how their memories, knowledge and thoughts are stored and translated, then they map their DNA sequences and melt them.

Maybe building a Reaper out of it allows them to indoctrinate a specific species from long distances?

Actually, to add to the list, this is how I speculate Mass Effect 3 will be like:

• After recruiting Caela, the female Drell biotic,
• You will run into a surviving Prothean in the Hudson Nebula who goes by the abbreviation KC (pronounced 'Cas-ey')
• The Prothean tells you that the Dragon's Teeth was not, in fact, Reaper technology, but Prothean technology reverse engineered by the Reapers and by Cerberus (which is why it's on the Derelict Reaper).
• The Dragon's Teeth prevents the Reapers from analyzing organic neuron patterns by turning that species into mindless husks
• To prevent themselves from being turned into another Reaper, the remaining Protheans (except for the scientists on Ilos) husk'd themselves so they would be made useless to the Reapers
• The Reapers, unable to collect enough Protheans to map their brains and turn them into another Reaper, started the slow process of capturing them without the use of the long-range indoctrination technology afforded by making a Prothean Reaper
• Since they were now incapable of becoming a Reaper, the Reapers started adding more and more technology to convert them into something useful
• Without the proper brain mapping and gene sequencing, the Husk'd Protheans turned into Collectors - mindless slaves, but could be commanded from long distances using the Prothean's own technology
  
  
  
  
• KC also reveals that Harbinger is not the leader, but an incomplete Prothean Reaper who is pissed that you destroyed everything he was able to control.
• The Rachni Reaper (who is also pissed after losing the Krogan Rebellions) unleashes another wave of rachni as ground targets for Shepard to shoot at
• Shepard finds a way to infiltrate the Harbinger ship
• With EDI's Reaper technology and Shepard's Reaper cybernetics, Shepard is able to start ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL of Harbinger
• Since no one has ever assumed control of a Reaper before, the rest of the Reaper army is stunned as Shepard-Harbinger-Commander leads the galactic fleet to victory against the Reapers
• Shepard dies
• The End

...This is what happens when you suffer from insomnia... craziness and creativity combined.

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 04:55 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

Seems to have a ceromonial aspect.  Also they most likely use more than just the DNA.

[Sigma Tauri]

Sand King wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

Where is the fun in that.

Hah, there are other fun ways to get DNA.

[Nightwriter]

monkeycamoran wrote...

Sand King wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

Where is the fun in that.

Hah, there are other fun ways to get DNA.

Yes but then all the races wouldn't be resisting, there'd be lines and lines of people waiting at a Reaper DNA sample center begging to be "culled" and a very tired Reaper receptionist.

[Pacifien]

Nightwriter wrote...
I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

Harbinger: EVOLUTION CANNOT BE STOPPED. FIND ME THEIR DNA.
Collector: aHA!
Harbinger: YOU HAVE FOUND THE KEY TO THEIR PERFECTION.
Collector: No! A credit chit!
Harbinger: ...

[SandTrout]

I think that too many people are assuming that the Reaper Creation process is a mechanical one of construction, like any other star-ship. This is a flawed notion because Reapers are not like any other star-ship in ME. They obviously cannot be mass-produced, otherwise Saren and Nazara would have just set up a factory in terminus space with their Geth workers providing the labor to pump out Reaper after Reaper.

The Reaper creation process uses the DNA from the sample species, but DNA is not stable, and it mutates, even between individual cells, due to radiation, chemical exposure, and just pain old mitosis. A single sample of DNA can be flawed and not fully represent the species, so to ensure true ascendancy of a species, they sample the DNA of every cell of every individual, and supposedly retaining some aspect of that individual's personality, memories, or something resembling a 'soul'.

Otherwise, when the Geth communicated with Nazara, they would have spoken with one being with one voice. Instead, Legion reveals that Nazara's 'personality' was an amalgam of billions of voices, so there is some part of a individual that is retained through the ascension into being a reaper, though the actual mechanism behind that has not been revealed, and would probably be completely alien to us.

[Nightwriter]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

I wouldn't normally use this word with machine intelligence, but Legion started it.
Perhaps it's just Reaper orthodoxy. That's simply How It's Done, because it fits The Purpose.
Prepare these humans for ascension.

They're liberating us from our fragile bodies of blood and flesh, from our lives measured in years and decades. We will cease. A Reaper will bear our perfected species onward through eternity.

I think this is as good an explanation as any. I did get the impression there is something almost spiritual or ritualistic about what the Reapers do.

Still, a lot of trouble to go to, especially at a time of emergency, all for a ritual.

[Annie_Dear]

Now for all intents and purposes I think this probably would have made for a better Human Reaper Larva.

[/quote]


That would have been awsome.

[Nightwriter]

How does it move? It's a... a tree.



... A very cool looking tree.

[InvaderErl]

You could even say its a Poet Tree!



*boos



Hey you were all thinking it!

[InvaderErl]

So awesome I made a backup post in case the first one exploded. 

Modifié par InvaderErl, 21 juin 2010 - 06:40 .

[Christmas Ape]

Nightwriter wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
I wouldn't normally use this word with machine intelligence, but Legion started it.
Perhaps it's just Reaper orthodoxy. That's simply How It's Done, because it fits The Purpose.
Prepare these humans for ascension.
They're liberating us from our fragile bodies of blood and flesh, from our lives measured in years and decades. We will cease. A Reaper will bear our perfected species onward through eternity.

I think this is as good an explanation as any. I did get the impression there is something almost spiritual or ritualistic about what the Reapers do.

Still, a lot of trouble to go to, especially at a time of emergency, all for a ritual.

Not uncommon in the spiritual mind, or even the old mind. Thoughts form patterns, patterns form routines, routines form rituals, rituals form orthodoxy. They've been doing this for at least millions of years. Maybe billions. Now everybody grinds up sapients into Reaper-gel because that's how it works.

I'm also fairly sure the Collector plan - the "build a Reaper in the middle of the war" one - is the emergency plan.
Your worlds will become our genetic laboratories.
I saw synthetics - geth, maybe - killing people. Butchering them.
I think Reapers are usually constructed more "on-site" when a genetically appropriate species is located. The Protheans didn't measure up, so they were re-tasked to run Location B.

[Nightwriter]

InvaderErl wrote...

So awesome I made a backup post in case the first one exploded. 

Was it but a simple jest?

A tease to entertain your guest?