115 réponses à ce sujet

[vehzeel]

Why do the new Reapers submit to the other Reapers' cause? If I became a Reaper, I sure as hell wouldn't want others to suffer the same (I think. But maybe being a Reaper really is better ). Or are the "distilled" races used to give the "newborn" some sort of personality/memories?



Also, why do everyone assume the Protheans are ONE race? Wouldn't there rather have been quite a few of them?

[Corwyn]

Loreleon wrote...

Macgarnickle wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

Has anyone ever looked up in the derelict reaper after fighting the first Scion?? It really wouldn't surprise me for that to be the actual Reaper inside the Reaper Ship. Creepy I tell you.

I always kind of assumed that this was the case.  Inside each of the cuttlefish shaped ships was a reaper that looked something like the race that spawned it.

Have you a photo of this, please?

No I don't have proof that's why I said I assume instead of saying I know. My reason for guessing that are 

1. If the reapers really do make more of themselves by melting down organics and shaping new reapers that look like them, then the reapers should look different.  Every reaper we've seen so far looks like the cuttlefish ship.  

2. You can walk around the derelict reaper ship.  When you you walk around the reaper ship it looks like it was designed for organics or smaller synthetics to use.  This tends to support the idea that the cuttlefish is the ship whereas the actual reaper is something else housed inside the ship. 

3.  I have to believe that Bioware knows that a giant ship shaped like a person flying through space would look pretty stupid.

I could be wrong that's just my guess.  Honestly I was never a huge fan of the whole reapers are made of people idea.  I liked it better in the first one when like Sovereign said " You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence."  The idea that reapers are just organics that made themselves machines is kind of a let down.  But who knows we haven't played the third one yet so we don't know how everything is going to end.

[KenLyns]

The future is closer than you think...
Final Skynet satellite launched

"Skynet 5 is about two-and-a-half-times more capable than the previous system"
"So, computers can talk directly to computers"
"...robot surveillance plane called Reaper to hunt down Taliban forces."
"Skynet 5C is actually our self-insurance"

[Mev186]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I think its just the actual ship portion you see with the other Reapers not the Reaper itself.

That would make them Less threatening... The appeal of the Reapers is that they are alien, unknowable. If they're just basicly differnt species with simmilar ships, then they are more like us, relatavke and therefore not as imposing.

[didymos1120]

Vaenier wrote...
Why do they take AWSOME ideas, and replace them with crap ideas for the final game? I am confused...

That's probably because your premise is flawed. They didn't "replace" anything.  From the art book (bolding mine):

"In particular, the hybridization of humans and Reaper technology is revealed through several stages of increasingly powerful enemies, culminating in the enormous and terrifying Reaper-human larva shown here in early production paintings."

Let's ignore the question of exactly how "terrifying" or not the final boss actually was. That's not relevant.  This is:  early production paintings. Plural. Wanna guess what the first painting looks like? Not a giant husk fetus: 



And on the next page (again, bolding mine):

"The countless designs for Reaper-human larva [above and previous page] covered a full spectrum between Reaper and human forms."

The giant husk fetus almost certainly never existed outside that painting.  Also, just in general, while I do think the reaper fetus is kinda cool personally, if we're being honest, it's not like it's a less intrinsically ridiculous idea than what ended up in the game. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 juin 2010 - 01:50 .

[yummysoap]

The Questioning Motive wrote...

I'll accept judgment on the reaper fight being stupid when the person who said this comes back from fighting a reaper baby without the use of an interstellar ship. You bought the game, if you hate the ending so much... Return it.

I may have completely misunderstood what you were trying to say here, but are you seriously saying that the fictional Reaper baby is beyond criticism because none of us have ever killed a fictional Reaper baby without the use of a fictional interstellar ship?

Well, I might just give that a try. Shouldn't be too hard considering all the "THIS IS MY BIG GLOWING WEAK SPOT PLEASE SHOOT MY BIG GLOWING WEAK SPOT SO THAT I MAY DIE" points on that bastard.

EDIT: To the above poster. He never implied that the fetus Reaper ever made its way into the development process. That's why he used the word "idea".

Modifié par yummysoap, 22 juin 2010 - 02:25 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

The two ideas don't seem that different. Just the one would be more problematic and the other (that was used) more practical.

[Iakus]

JaegerBane wrote...

You're forgetting that Sovereign made it a point to bill the Reaper's actions as 'imposing order on chaos'. Consider what that might mean in the context of the idea that Reapers melt living beings down into raw materials...

Could it be that the Reapers consider what they do as simply distilling raw materials into something 'better'? Something that can't go extinct, can't die, and can simply endure? Life may be an accident - i.e. chaotic. 'Refining' a species into a Reaper - something that isn't accidental, or short lived, or whatever - may be their whole purpose all along.

The original implication of "imposing order on chaos" that i got was "we're gonna kill all intelligent life so they can't mess up our perfectly ordered galaxy"

JaegerBane wrote...

I think it's clear by now that the Reapers are not conventional Synthetics. They're defintiely 'assembled' rather than born and there presumably is a very good reason for going through the herculean effort of 'Reaping' a whole species to build a new Reaper. Logically, that implies the process is at least part of the Reaper's reason for existence.

I am willing to go along wit the fact that organic smoothies are required to build a Reaper.  It's bizarre, but I'm willing to see where this is taken.  I still want to know why the baby Reaper had to look like a three eyed Terminator. 

(I know it's not a Terminator, but when you have a huge metallic skull staring down at you, that's what springs to mind.  I took to calling it Terminator Kong.)

So:  It needs human organic material.  Fine Why do the nonorganic parts look humanoid?  It makes no sense.  At most, shouldn't it look like a gigantic brain?  A DNA helilx?  An AI with human thought patterns?

[didymos1120]

yummysoap wrote...
EDIT: To the above poster. He never implied that the fetus Reaper ever made its way into the development process. That's why he used the word "idea".

Uh no, he did.  Or rather, since production paintings are by definition part of the development process, what's assumed is that they started with the (allegedly "AWSOME") reaper-fetus and then replaced it with the (alllegedly "crap") mechanical version.  Was that what he really meant?  Possibly not, but I can only read words, not minds. 

[NICKjnp]

He has a name you know... It is Soylent Green.

[didymos1120]

iakus wrote...

The original implication of "imposing order on chaos" that i got was "we're gonna kill all intelligent life so they can't mess up our perfectly ordered galaxy"

Which isn't really consistent with what they actually do: channel species along certain technological paths, then systematically dismantle the resulting civilization (as opposed to just dropping by and vaporizing everyone with ultra-super-mega-nukes or antimatter warheads or something).  If you just wanna kill 'em all, why not just get rid of 'em before they even get off the ground (literally)? Barring fleet actions and bad luck, they're immortal and have massive technological resources.  No reason they couldn't just cruise about periodically and destroy the ecosystems of garden worlds.   Just redirect a couple asteroids when you find one, and go back to playing Reaper-chess or whatever.  That takes care of 99% of the organic chaos of interest right there.  Sure, occasionally you'll get some oddball species like the volus popping up on non-garden worlds, but, well, they're rare and it's not like they couldn't figure out ways of detecting when a biosphere like that is starting to get uppity.  

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 juin 2010 - 04:23 .

[Bluko]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Pretty sure the thread title is a Kindergarten Cop reference...

Yep.

And apparently I got banned an hour after for some reason...

[Bluko]

Ecael wrote...

Ecael wrote...

I can think of 4 reasons why they stuck with the species/human-in-a-ship:

• They don't want to reveal the other species that existed
• Flying humanoid species in space wouldn't look intimidating, it would just look silly
• Reapers have multiple Thanix cannons, and thus many of them have several limbs representing cannons
• Having you shoot something that is shaped like a baby would probably get the game banned in several countries (I think)

The Reapers are probably undertaking some neural and genome mapping project - that's why the Collectors kept them around so long. First they map their brains to understand how their memories, knowledge and thoughts are stored and translated, then they map their DNA sequences and melt them.

Maybe building a Reaper out of it allows them to indoctrinate a specific species from long distances?

You know the Protheans sure do look like Husks. I mean for this nice and friendly advanced alien race the Protheans sure do look creepy. What's up with that?

(What if Husk tech actually came from the Protheans? LOL going off-topic in my own thread!)
Yeah and I also think they may have abandoned the human reaper fetus thing due to potential controversy. Aborting a fetus with guns, even an evil machine fetus is still heavy risk... Have to remember Bioware is under EA now-a-days so they have additional rules to play by. Of course EA made Dante's Inferno and that game was fairly racey for an M-Rating. I guess it's all okay as long as there is no graphical depiction of hardcore sex. I think there's something wrong when a society finds it more acceptable to depict extreme gore such as tearing a head off with a spinal cord in tow, but sex is huge no-no. Silly me I forgot I actually came from a Cabage Patch LOL!

[Bluko]

didymos1120 wrote...

iakus wrote...

The original implication of "imposing order on chaos" that i got was "we're gonna kill all intelligent life so they can't mess up our perfectly ordered galaxy"

Which isn't really consistent with what they actually do: channel species along certain technological paths, then systematically dismantle the resulting civilization (as opposed to just dropping by and vaporizing everyone with ultra-super-mega-nukes or antimatter warheads or something).  If you just wanna kill 'em all, why not just get rid of 'em before they even get off the ground (literally)? Barring fleet actions and bad luck, they're immortal and have massive technological resources.  No reason they couldn't just cruise about periodically and destroy the ecosystems of garden worlds.   Just redirect a couple asteroids when you find one, and go back to playing Reaper-chess or whatever.  That takes care of 99% of the organic chaos of interest right there.  Sure, occasionally you'll get some oddball species like the volus popping up on non-garden worlds, but, well, they're rare and it's not like they couldn't figure out ways of detecting when a biosphere like that is starting to get uppity.  

Well apparently the Reapers are lazy.

The Reapers must apparently gain something by letting new lifeforms develop since they could probably just go around destroying every planet with potential life. Although that would be difficult as there are billions of stars and who knows which ones have planets with life. Simply put the Reapers like us to come to them cause it's makes there job a little easier.

I think it's also fair to say that the Reapers must gain something by harvesting us. What this is exactly I have clue. Also the Reapers seem to think they are doing us a favor by turning us into a Reaper. Harbinger even says "Prepare these humans for ascension!" which means they believe that being a Reaper is a form of superior existence. So in a way Reapers I think believe they are saving us from destroying ourselves later since any Organic species would eventually just grow out of control. At least that's what I suspect the Reapers believe anywho.

[Ooga600]

Nightwriter wrote...

I agree, but it begs the question, if they just needed our DNA, why go to all the trouble of abducting all those people for smoothie-fication?

You can get DNA from saliva, a hair follicle, a skin flake.

There's a lot more DNA in an entire human than in one hair follicle.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I think the reason they settled on the design that they did is simply because it made for a better boss fight. had it not been the climactic battle of the game. Narratively, both of the games' end bosses were more interesting pre-terminator, but i guess it is something that must be upheld. I think the saren-terminator bit sat better with people only because the leaping geth sort of allowed you to accept a creature like that in universe the first time you saw it. the baby reaper is abit silly but in the context of the trilogy will probably make more sense and be better accepted by the majority fanbase.

[Ieldra]

Bluko wrote...
I think it's also fair to say that the Reapers must gain something by harvesting us. What this is exactly I have clue. Also the Reapers seem to think they are doing us a favor by turning us into a Reaper. Harbinger even says "Prepare these humans for ascension!" which means they believe that being a Reaper is a form of superior existence. So in a way Reapers I think believe they are saving us from destroying ourselves later since any Organic species would eventually just grow out of control. At least that's what I suspect the Reapers believe anywho.

Or...what if they think it's the only way to save us from a bigger threat? That's what happens in the original from which this idea was taken.... intelligent species developing past a certain stage would result in waking the real threat. The threat the Reapers had been built to prevent from waking in the first place. I'm thinking of the mystery of dark energy and accelerated stellar evolution here....

[Christmas Ape]

Okay, I'm going to say it right now.



Whether you prefer the look of the Reaper-fetus or the Reaper-skeleton, the fact is conceptually the fetus is way more retarded. Question why there is a representation of the species composing a Reaper at its core all you want, that's fine - but face it, the idea they'd have the process create a giant fetus is just stupid. You might have found yourself thinking "bad-ASS!" at the time, but there would be "Why the hell is the Baby Reaper...A Baby?" threads four days after release.



You can justify the skeleton-form with "maintaining species self-identity within the Reaper collective", but there's no reason whatsoever for it to look like a developing fetus.

[Bluko]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Bluko wrote...
I think it's also fair to say that the Reapers must gain something by harvesting us. What this is exactly I have clue. Also the Reapers seem to think they are doing us a favor by turning us into a Reaper. Harbinger even says "Prepare these humans for ascension!" which means they believe that being a Reaper is a form of superior existence. So in a way Reapers I think believe they are saving us from destroying ourselves later since any Organic species would eventually just grow out of control. At least that's what I suspect the Reapers believe anywho.

Or...what if they think it's the only way to save us from a bigger threat? That's what happens in the original from which this idea was taken.... intelligent species developing past a certain stage would result in waking the real threat. The threat the Reapers had been built to prevent from waking in the first place. I'm thinking of the mystery of dark energy and accelerated stellar evolution here....

Shhh!

Don't reveal the plot of ME3...

I dunno it might be the case where the Reapers are protecting us from something else, but their methods seem awfully insidious. Why can't they just tell us that in order to protect the galaxy they need to make new Reapers out of us?

I do suspect however that the Reapers may very well be from another galaxy or universe. The other universe thingy would explain their unusual powers and technology.

If anything I'd guess the Reapers originally came from a highly advanced race that almost saw the galaxy destroyed by a massive conflict between the various species at the time from an overuse of Dark Energy/Element Zero. In order to preserve the galaxy and relative peace the original Reaper race deemed that every other advanced species be subjugated as the Reapers. By turining a species into a Reaper they ultimately save it without having to destroy it. If Organic life is left unchecked we would grow out of control and meddle too much with Dark Energy possibly destroying the galaxy itself (or something like that). Hence why the Reapers are called "reapers".

[Mister Mida]

Bluko wrote...

...
Hence why the Reapers are called "reapers".

"Reaper. A lable created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, how they choose to call us is irrelevant. We simply are."

Modifié par Mister Mida, 22 juin 2010 - 09:19 .

[Bluko]

Mister Mida wrote...
"Reaper. A lable created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, how they choose to call us is irrelevant. We simply are."

Yes, but the name is still significant. Just as it is with the Collectors and the Keepers. Also regardless the label Reaper is befitting of their actions thus far.

[Mister Mida]

Bluko wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...
"Reaper. A lable created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, how they choose to call us is irrelevant. We simply are."

Yes, but the name is still significant. Just as it is with the Collectors and the Keepers. Also regardless the label Reaper is befitting of their actions thus far.

How can you be so sure about that? Vigil's knowledge (and hereby the Protheans' knowledge) of the Reapers is next to nothing. At least with the Collectors there is a valid reason to call them such. They collect unique specimen. The Keepers are called such because they have tend to the Citadel for who knows how long.

[MaaZeus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...
Why do they take AWSOME ideas, and replace them with crap ideas for the final game? I am confused...

That's probably because your premise is flawed. They didn't "replace" anything.  From the art book (bolding mine):

"In particular, the hybridization of humans and Reaper technology is revealed through several stages of increasingly powerful enemies, culminating in the enormous and terrifying Reaper-human larva shown here in early production paintings."

Let's ignore the question of exactly how "terrifying" or not the final boss actually was. That's not relevant.  This is:  early production paintings. Plural. Wanna guess what the first painting looks like? Not a giant husk fetus: 



And on the next page (again, bolding mine):

"The countless designs for Reaper-human larva [above and previous page] covered a full spectrum between Reaper and human forms."

The giant husk fetus almost certainly never existed outside that painting.  Also, just in general, while I do think the reaper fetus is kinda cool personally, if we're being honest, it's not like it's a less intrinsically ridiculous idea than what ended up in the game. 

True enough. But even that picture you posted would have been better than what we have now. In that picture the human reaper truly looks like some kind of biomechanic abomination straight from H.R.Gigers art, very ailen to us. Much more believable and less facepalmworthy than current Termireaper which looks merely manbuilt skeleton robot.

[vehzeel]

Bluko wrote...

I do suspect however that the Reapers may very well be from another galaxy or universe. The other universe thingy would explain their unusual powers and technology.

I rather think that they have better tech simply because their civilization isn't wiped from the face of the galaxy every 50.000 years. I think there is very little technological progress beyond the point
where the M.E. universe currently is, since the Reapers cull the lesser
races at the same point in cycles. They predict and control the technological progress. While I doubt they do a lot of research themselves (the Reapers probably follow some sort of basic programming), the creators of the Reapers certainly had advanced further than the current M.E. galactic civilizations.