181 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

No, can't do warp explosions with Reave. Only on targets that have lost their sense of gravity: pull, slam on the upswing, singularity.

Modifié par Pacifien, 09 août 2010 - 04:18 .

[NICKjnp]

numotsbane wrote...

I think thats it... its fun, but not necessarily super effective. also, the thing I really don't like about it is that as you spend more points your slave becomes harder to kill. I don't want an enemy i've just used a power on coming back to bite me in the ass in 9 seconds, I want him to distract my enemies and then die.
also, that one time I 'dominated' an eclipse sister and she got a 350pt barrier and then kept attacking me... well, that was the dealbreaker.

That is why you only put two points in it with Morinth and one point in it if it is Shepard's bonus power.  The best thing to do is dominate heavies and drones (before they become Harby).

[Bozorgmehr]

NICKjnp wrote...

numotsbane wrote...

I think thats it... its fun, but not necessarily super effective. also, the thing I really don't like about it is that as you spend more points your slave becomes harder to kill. I don't want an enemy i've just used a power on coming back to bite me in the ass in 9 seconds, I want him to distract my enemies and then die.
also, that one time I 'dominated' an eclipse sister and she got a 350pt barrier and then kept attacking me... well, that was the dealbreaker.

That is why you only put two points in it with Morinth and one point in it if it is Shepard's bonus power.  The best thing to do is dominate heavies and drones (before they become Harby).

The AI will target enemies who are closest and within line of sight/fire (pretty much always, though the AI does have a little Kill-Shep-First mentality). If you target the right enemy (love to use Dominate on Pyros and Heavies) they'll target their palls and they will return fire. Very effective power, but situational plus I prefer killing everything myself

The area version is amazing. I managed to Dominate 3 enemies at once. First they killed their buddies and then I started shooting one of them and the 2 other dominated enemies killed their new enemy too. Attacked another and the two started to butcher each other. Easiest fight ever and fun to watch.

[numotsbane]

sounds fun but I'm still not sold. with 3 enemies down to health in one area, dominate is sitting mid-level on the list of how I'd want to dispose of them. pull field + warpsplosion, squad cryo, cryo blast, area reave... these all strike me as ways less likely to backfire.

I still have dominate up as the best potential choice for an engineer, cause thats what I used early game, but I'm beginning to think maybe an ammo power is better I am not sure though, hence my reluctance to change it...

[Bozorgmehr]

There're are faster and more effective ways to kill, but Dominate is very funny. If you're not going for speed and pure killing power, Dominate can be really fun to use. I didn't voted for it in your poll, but like it a lot - Dominate is definitely high on my list of 'most enjoyable bonus powers'.

[PrinceLionheart]

 I'm going to give a Slammin Vanguard a go. 

Flashbang is Perfect for Soldier once you get the aiming down and I went Reave for the Sentinel, that way I could focus more on maxing out my Tech Skills.

[PsyrenY]

The OP ranks Fortification as the worst bonus power, but surely Shredder Ammo deserves that designation instead...

[Alamar2078]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The OP ranks Fortification as the worst bonus power, but surely Shredder Ammo deserves that designation instead...

I remember taking that on a Soldier on my first playthough.  Not only was I disappointed in the cool down time [no AR for a while] you don't even get the points added as "armor" .. they're just extra shields

[PrinceLionheart]

 Seriously, once you get the throwing down, Flashbang is almost too much win.

[termokanden]

I'd considered it crap myself, then I decided to finally try it after reading a thread here saying it was good. Took a while to get used to it, but I finally realized how good it was in Samara's recruitment mission. Outside the crime scene there is a group of enemies. Overloaded all of them in one throw. Before they could recover, I'd thrown another grenade. They never fired a single shot before they were dead.

From there it was fight after fight of enemies running around like headless chickens with smoking weapons.

It's best on a sentinel I'd say. Wouldn't use it on a soldier who already has Adrenaline Rush to worry about. But yes, Flashbang Grenade is one of the very best powers, and completely underrated in general it seems.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 août 2010 - 03:57 .

[IMNWME]

Sentinels should always use Energy Drain. Always. The synergy with Tech Armor is crazy.

EDIT: Except against Collectors.  There, Reave/Flashbang is acceptable.  Any other time, you're gimping your killing speed.

Modifié par IMNWME, 19 août 2010 - 04:01 .

[termokanden]

Energy Drain gives you survivability. You don't need survivability if your enemy is unable to attack you. Flashbang also happens to knock unprotected enemies down, increasin your damage done to them by 100%.

[IMNWME]

Survivability is important when you're in the middle of a group of three to four enemies, one of them a sub-boss, and everyone is firing at just you.



Any time you're taking cover and using powers, you're losing time (except again, against Collectors). You should try an Assault Sentinel with the GPS and Energy Drain... it's a huge improvement over other shotties for a class that can't fast travel.

[termokanden]

Flashbang has a 9m radius (Improved). It can lock down more than three to four enemies and works against your sub-boss as well. Trust me, I've tried this many times by now.

There are different ways to complete this game. Obviously both Flashbang Grenade and Energy Drain are awesome powers. But I think if Flashbang Grenade is gimping your killing speed, you're not using it right.

Also you have some strange assumptions. You're not sitting behind cover spamming grenades. They allow you to go out of cover and mow people down while they can't shoot back.

The weaknesses of Flashbang Grenade include:

1. Your own aim.
2. People with shotguns.
3. Sniper nests that are very far away, such as the ones in Mordin's recruitment mission.

But then Energy Drain has weaknesses too:

1. MUCH lower radius than Flashbang.
2. Doesn't work against people without shields or armored mechs.
3. Has no knockdown effect on unprotected enemies.

Neither skill is the one skill to rule the game and to rule out all others. I prefer Flashbang myself, but I see the point in using Energy Drain as well.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 août 2010 - 04:32 .

[IMNWME]

I guess my point is, without Energy Drain, your Armor blows off a LOT quicker, which makes it a lot harder to spam consistently while staying out in the open. Flashbang can indeed lock down a group of enemies, but if the battlefield is open with multiple enemy units (Haestrom, others), your Armor will get taken down quickly if you don't have some means of replenishing it.

Even en route to the first enemy, I've had Tech Armor blown off sometimes, which doesn't lend itself well to closing further. With Energy Drain, the objective is not to take down defenses so much as it is to keep Tech Armor alive until you're within melee range, where your shotty will make quick work of anybody around. I really don't think I could run through levels the way I do using Flashbang.

EDIT: Tell you what.  Try it my way.  Use an Assault Sentinel with Energy Drain and GPS, and just run at enemies using Energy Drain on a non-Collector mission.  Thane's recruitment is a good one, it has a mix of Barrier/Armor/Shields.  Even on levels with mixed protections, though, Shields are predominant.  I'll try Improved Flashbang Grenade, and tell you if I have equivalent results in killing speed with it.

Modifié par IMNWME, 19 août 2010 - 05:08 .

[termokanden]

I'm not going to start a huge experiment to prove my point, it's not worth that much to me "winning" a discussion here.



I'm sure Energy Drain will be faster in certain sections of the game, say Haestrom, but worse in others. Certainly I don't see it being half as good (or even useful at all) in any of the Collector missions. With Flashbang Grenade, it will increase your killing speed immensely when enemies are grouped up and not so much otherwise.



If your goal is truly maximum clearing speed, respec between missions, don't just stick to one power.



My goal was never that though, and I think for many players survival is the first goal on insanity. I personally just wanted a build that could control the battlefield. This is what Flashbang does and Energy Drain certainly doesn't.



Another point worth considering is that if you just want maximum killing speed then perhaps the Sentinel isn't even the best choice.

[IntrepidProdigy]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

 Seriously, once you get the throwing down, Flashbang is almost too much win.

I usually bring Kasumi along on missions where I want to use flashbang since it's instant. She's been the perfect squadmate for my vanguard. It also allows me to pick another bonus talent of my choosing, like reave. Shadow strike also comes in handy for enemies with multiple defenses.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 19 août 2010 - 06:56 .

[IMNWME]

termokanden wrote...

I'm not going to start a huge experiment to prove my point, it's not worth that much to me "winning" a discussion here.

Not so much about "winning" a discussion.  I haven't seen a lot of posts about the Assault Sentinel w/ the GPS and Energy Drain, and it'd be nice to see somebody else try this class and have as much fun as I did.  I'm sure you already have a Shotgun Sentinel save file, just try running Thane's mission if you get the chance.

I'm sure Energy Drain will be faster in certain sections of the game, say Haestrom, but worse in others. Certainly I don't see it being half as good (or even useful at all) in any of the Collector missions.

Correct, I made a specific exception for Collector missions.  However, there are only four barrier heavy missions in the entire game: Horizon, Samara's recruitment, the disabled Collector vessel, and the Suicide run.  Collectors are only a problem because they have enemy types which will destroy your shields FAST ( Harbinger, Scions, Collector Assassins).  I'd definitely consider Flashbang for those missions (but not Samara's recruitment... the enemies don't do enough damage to really alter your playstyle).

If your goal is truly maximum clearing speed, respec between missions, don't just stick to one power.

Yep.  Energy Drain works on the majority of missions, though.  Except for the Blood Pack, where it's more optimal to take Area Reave.

Another point worth considering is that if you just want maximum killing speed then perhaps the Sentinel isn't even the best choice.

I used to think this way, but with the addition of the GPS, I seriously clear rooms faster than almost any other class, including Soldier, except for maybe a Vanguard.  The new Firepower Pack definitely made the Shotgun Sentinel viable, instead of just a niche specialization.

[Kronner]

IMNWME wrote...

I used to think this way, but with the addition of the GPS, I seriously clear rooms faster than almost any other class, including Soldier, except for maybe a Vanguard.  The new Firepower Pack definitely made the Shotgun Sentinel viable, instead of just a niche specialization.

Shotgun Sentinel WAS viable, now it is broken. The GPS is a heavy weapon, not a shotgun, it completly ruined my Shotgun Sentinel experience ( I want my class to be limited in one way or the other), so I went back to Evi/Scimitar. Much more satisfying experience for me.

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Shotgun Sentinel WAS viable, now it is broken. The GPS is a heavy weapon, not a shotgun, it completly ruined my Shotgun Sentinel experience ( I want my class to be limited in one way or the other), so I went back to Evi/Scimitar. Much more satisfying experience for me.

Don't like Geth SG either. It's incredibly powerful - you can hunt big game with this ... thing. It feels and sounds like a one target Arc Projector with unlimited ammo, but it doesn't resembles a SG the way I like it. The dlc weapons are too powerful I think, GPS, Mattock and Locust have no weakness like the vanilla guns have. GPS inflicts high damage mediun range - this is supposed to be a SG, should only be effective at close range - this trivalizes AR weapon training, same thing with Mattock (Viper has become pretty much obsolete - only knockback/stun effect is better)

[IMNWME]

Kronner wrote...

Shotgun Sentinel WAS viable, now it is broken. The GPS is a heavy weapon, not a shotgun, it completly ruined my Shotgun Sentinel experience ( I want my class to be limited in one way or the other), so I went back to Evi/Scimitar. Much more satisfying experience for me.

Interesting.  I dunno, I like trying to push the CQC capabilities of the Shotgun Sentinel as far as possible because I think each class should try to get as much mileage as possible out of their class ability.  I think you'd enjoy the Shotgun Sentinel with GPS if you played more recklessly (seriously, don't ever take cover).  The killing power of the GPS at range allows you to pull off some crazy rush-downs with Assault Armor that you just cannot do with the other weapons.  I've seen Assault Sentinel vids on youtube, and none of them come close to being as aggressive as I was once I picked up the GPS.

[Kronner]

IMNWME wrote...

Interesting.  I dunno, I like trying to push the CQC capabilities of the Shotgun Sentinel as far as possible because I think each class should try to get as much mileage as possible out of their class ability.  I think you'd enjoy the Shotgun Sentinel with GPS if you played more recklessly (seriously, don't ever take cover).  The killing power of the GPS at range allows you to pull off some crazy rush-downs with Assault Armor that you just cannot do with the other weapons.  I've seen Assault Sentinel vids on youtube, and none of them come close to being as aggressive as I was once I picked up the GPS.

That is my point. GPS is just ridiculous mid range weapon. For me Shotgun is for close range only, which is why I disliked being able to shoot from a distance (not just shoot, one shotting defenses like nothing) and I did not feel like Shotgun Assault Sentinel. I mean seriously I could eat rockets, bullets, whatever, did not matter; spam Assault Armor and one shot defense from mid range and still have extremely effective close range weapon in one pack..and this was on Insanity. I even double checked it really is Insanity. Just broken combo. Assault Sentinel with GPS is like T72 with rapid fire Ion Cannon. Well, that is my biased view.

(it was fun but being invincible gets boring after a while)

Modifié par Kronner, 19 août 2010 - 09:44 .

[IMNWME]

Kronner wrote...
That is my point. GPS is just ridiculous mid range weapon. For me Shotgun is for close range only, which is why I disliked being able to shoot from a distance (not just shoot, one shotting defenses like nothing) and I did not feel like Shotgun Assault Sentinel. I mean seriously I could eat rockets, bullets, whatever, did not matter; spam Assault Armor and one shot defense from mid range and still have extremely effective close range weapon in one pack..and this was on Insanity. I even double checked it really is Insanity. Just broken combo. Assault Sentinel with GPS is like T72 with rapid fire Ion Cannon. Well, that is my biased view.

(it was fun but being invincible gets boring after a while)

All true.  However, I just wanted to point out that the GPS definitely gives the Sentinel a unique play-style (super-soldier), especially if you take Energy Drain.  Before the GPS came out, the Sentinel was just a very durable caster, but you couldn't really leverage Tech Armor because it still got shot off long before you got into Shotgun range if you ran out in the open.  Because the GPS lets you one-shot defenses from a distance, though, you can start running at enemy waves blasting it and using ED to keep your shields up until you're in close range, at which point one or two enemies are usually already dead, drastically reducing the amount of incoming fire.

Definitely got ridiculous sometimes.  During Haestrom, I rushed down the Colossus and it definitely felt like Immunity from ME1 (except when you get stunlocked by a pyro).

Kronner, think you could post some vids of your Assault Sentinel run with the GPS?  There's a lot of hyperbole on these boards, but honestly, the Assault Sentinel w/ GPS is EASILY the most munchkin class in the game.  I think if a couple vids showcasing it came out, there'd be a lot more love for the Sentinel.  It used to have a class weakness in terms of killing speed, but the new Firepower Pack definitely changed that.

[termokanden]

Wait what? Is the GPS now overpowered along with the Mattock? I think it actually manages to be good without ruining the other shotguns. I'd still use the Claymore on anyone intending to get close, I'd still use the Eviscerator againt, say, husks (better against armor, easier to aim close up).



And yet the GPS is nicer at mid range. Unlike the Mattock, it's not simply best at everything.



Well, you could argue that the Claymore should be a little more friendly with reloading and ammo nowadays, but still I consider that the ultimate shotgun for getting up close and personal.

[IMNWME]

termokanden wrote...

Wait what? Is the GPS now overpowered along with the Mattock? I think it actually manages to be good without ruining the other shotguns. I'd still use the Claymore on anyone intending to get close, I'd still use the Eviscerator againt, say, husks (better against armor, easier to aim close up).

And yet the GPS is nicer at mid range. Unlike the Mattock, it's not simply best at everything.

I think the GPS is a better Shotgun for any class that doesn't have access to the Claymore.  You can't use AR or Charge to close distance, which means you'll have to do it on your own two feet.  The ability to severely damage an enemy (or, with enough upgrades, remove their defenses entirely) with a shot from mid-range while closing is invaluable if you're trying to accomplish CQC.