181 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

IMNWME wrote...

I don't know. I like Flashbang Grenade, but when I was playing around with it on my Assault Sentinel, it saw limited use. It's great for neutering Harbinger, but any other time my cool-down was available, it was generally a better option to use either Tech Armor or Warp/Energy Drain. I think it's better for the Engineer (I loved it but eventually went back to AP Ammo) or the Soldier. The Sentinel already has CC down with Assault Armor (a 18 m radius knock-down!) or Throw Field (3s cool-down) or even Cryo Blast, if you bother to put points in it (only when I'm running a Heavy Throw/Deep Cryo Blast build for lulz). Flashbang doesn't add much to the class.

This has also been my experience so far. Tech Armor is always a better choice than Flashbang. If I want the Harbinger's worst nightmare with me, I just take Kasumi. Against regular guys, Tech Armor is more efficient imho.
Same thing with Soldier, Adrenaline Rush > Flashbang any time.

[Alamar2078]

In general terms when classes have powers they need to spam that also have short cooldowns ... AR for Soldiers ... Drones for Engr ... Singularity [to a lesser degree] for Adepts I prefer using ammo powers so it doesn't get in the way of spamming your "win" skill. [OK for Adepts I use Energy Drain a lot ...]



For skills that take a little longer [Charge, Cloak, Tac Armor] I like using powers with similar sorts of cooldowns so I don't feel like I'm wasting much time. Reave & Energy Drain are favs here.



I don't use many "recharge your shields" sorts of skills.as I've found their cooldowns are so long you may get killed because you can't use any powers until the cooldown is over. If Unity doesn't fix it then reloading will

[numotsbane]

Kronner wrote...

IMNWME wrote...

I don't know. I like Flashbang Grenade, but when I was playing around with it on my Assault Sentinel, it saw limited use. It's great for neutering Harbinger, but any other time my cool-down was available, it was generally a better option to use either Tech Armor or Warp/Energy Drain. I think it's better for the Engineer (I loved it but eventually went back to AP Ammo) or the Soldier. The Sentinel already has CC down with Assault Armor (a 18 m radius knock-down!) or Throw Field (3s cool-down) or even Cryo Blast, if you bother to put points in it (only when I'm running a Heavy Throw/Deep Cryo Blast build for lulz). Flashbang doesn't add much to the class.

This has also been my experience so far. Tech Armor is always a better choice than Flashbang. If I want the Harbinger's worst nightmare with me, I just take Kasumi. Against regular guys, Tech Armor is more efficient imho.
Same thing with Soldier, Adrenaline Rush > Flashbang any time.

strangely INWME, I had the exact opposite - I much prefered spamming combat drone, overload and incinerate and found limited use for flash grenade with the engineer. I definitely hesitate to say something like 'your using flashbang wrong' - you likely aren't - but I haven't found as much overlap with tech armour, cryo and throw field interfering with flash.
It's likely a playstyle thing: I drop cryo and use heavy rather than area throw, only put one into warp for the odd warplsosion. am I wierd?
I think flash's greatest asset is that it can target enemies that are impossible to get with any other power (in cover, behind walls, opposite side of objects, etc), and will always do something to them. I use flash for precision, and then tech armour on the close once everyone's taken damage.

On a side note, theres been some good poll discussion so I'll share some of that here:

Alamar2078 wrote...
Engineer - I voted Warp Ammo. It helps hit barriers hard AND it doesn't get in the way of spamming Exploding Drones everywhere. Reave [and other powes] can be good but I don't like waiting for the cooldown before I spam more drones
I don't care much for shield regen powers because you shouldn't be getting hit much anyway. 
Vanguard - I vote Reave because you need a long-distance "reach out and hurt someone" skill with reasonable cooldowns. All the shield-recharging skills are mostly wasted here. Ammo types don't seem effective as Inferno or Squad Disruptor is usually enough for most enemies.
Adept - I go with Energy Drain on missions where I'm going against guys with Shields. This gives you a legit power to use to strip Shield Defenses and the bonus protections it gives you is welcome. The cooldown isn't too bad so I'm cool with that.
On other missions I may go with Warp Ammo, Tungsten, or Reave. It depends on the mission but those are the basics.

 

Though I do disagree with ammo powers for soldiers, and that AR is always the best option.

Poisonpen wrote...
Sentinel - Warp Ammo. I forgo Warp completely while maxing Overload - this allows for you to still cover all the major defensive obstacles and still get bonuses with your basic weapons. This obviously works best as an assault sentinel. If you are a 'spell slinger' I advise Reave in place of warp/warp ammo. 

Whereas I either forgo warp for flash, forgo area overload for flash, or forgo overload for aread Energy Drain. make sure you guys know I ain't no ED hater, in fact i'm quite the fan.

[termokanden]

Kronner wrote...

This has also been my experience so far. Tech Armor is always a better choice than Flashbang. If I want the Harbinger's worst nightmare with me, I just take Kasumi. Against regular guys, Tech Armor is more efficient imho.
Same thing with Soldier, Adrenaline Rush > Flashbang any time.

I completely agree. I'd never use Flashbang for a soldier. However, since Tech Armor stays up until it's shot down, you really CAN use other powers. No point in spamming Tech Armor if it's already up.

Plus your Tech Armor won't go down if the enemy is on the floor trying to get up.

I would also like to mention here that Flashbang is FUN to use and requires skill to throw. It's not a minus for me, I like having to aim once in a while.

[Kronner]

termokanden wrote...

I completely agree. I'd never use Flashbang for a soldier. However, since Tech Armor stays up until it's shot down, you really CAN use other powers. No point in spamming Tech Armor if it's already up.

Plus your Tech Armor won't go down if the enemy is on the floor trying to get up.

I would also like to mention here that Flashbang is FUN to use and requires skill to throw. It's not a minus for me, I like having to aim once in a while.

Well the Tech Armor usually lasts just long enough for Shep to be able to cast it again, assuming Assault Sentinel. For Caster Sentinel, it might be great power however.

[termokanden]

Well I've been using Power Armor myself. I throw a grenade from cover then move out and shoot, throw another grenade, shoot more. Works great really. But it's very different from what you're doing with Assault Armor and Energy Drain.



Sometimes I spam powers for safety behind cover.



Not sure I'd call it a caster sentinel though. It's kind of a hybrid. Very good for the environment.

[numotsbane]

definitely agree with termokanden; flash isn't really a power that you spam from cover like warp or reave. I use it to lock down enemies before I kill them at mid- short range. mainly as a sentinel or CQC infiltrator.

also, a new poll about how often people respec. I'm quite surprised by the current results.

Using Respec poll



has anyone gone back and mastered inferno grenade now that they've got used to using grenades in general? I'm replaying ME1 at the moment so I'm not doing too much testing.

[termokanden]

Can't say I have or that I would. It doesn't seem like it does enough damage to be worth it over Incinerate.

The radius is also what kills it. Even in its widest form it has only half the radius of Improved Flashbang Grenade, and for me the jump from 7m to 9m made all the difference for Flashbang. Inferno can get 4.5m. It's just not that good.

Edit: Perhaps I am misunderstanding this power. As far as I can tell, a fragment will only damage one person. If each single fragment damages people in the radius listed, then Inferno Grenade would be insane.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 août 2010 - 01:01 .

[numotsbane]

So far the overwhelming majority of people don't respec, or try not to respec their powers. I don't think I could do that, I respec at least 5 times each playthrough to try new stuff, and also because early builds don't always sync well with effective late game builds.



In any event, this seems to suggest a lot of people are picking one power and not respecing it dependant on enemies. So what are the best powers given that you'd have to take it through the Whole game without changing it?

I'm tempted to say Warp ammo, Slam, Flashbang and Reave. they seem to work best in the widest range of theatres.

over to you.

[termokanden]

My favorite for most classes is an ammo power. I took Slam for my soldier (and never use it) and Flashbang for my sentinel.

[Bozorgmehr]

I respec for almost every new mission (when you can - after Horizon); though 80% of skill points are used for same skills. For example; my level 25 Adept has Heavy Warp, Heavy Singularity, Bastion, Heavy Barrier - 6 skill points remaining to be uses in Pull and Throw (got both to lvl 2) but when reaching lvl 26 you've got a extra point to spend. You can leave it; or (that's what I do) respec and get lvl 3 Throw and lvl 1 Pull to use all available skill points.



It seems I'm one of the few who does this; weird, it only requires 30 - 60 s to respec on Normandy and Ezo shouldn't be a problem playing on pc (Gibbed's editor can provide all resources needed) - I can see why people on 360 (who have to scan for resources) respec less, but still; you start with 50-60,000 Ezo - more than enough to research all upgrades using Ezo and to respec at least a dozen times or so. Why not use it?

[numotsbane]

but thats the thing- Eezo is the only resource you never have to worry about on the 360, any game you do other than the first you start of with 50,000 - more than enough to cover 5 or 6 respecs at least.

even though I love flash on my sentinel, as soon as I get past horizon I'm planning on respecing to have no warp or flash so I can get cryo, throw and warp ammo. just for kicks.

[termokanden]

I guess I usually choose my bonus powers very carefully. I know what I want for my characters in advance and there's no reason to change it.



I might do it a bit on my current soldier to experiment with different squad ammos.



Let me make this clear though. I start out with 60k eezo and I have no idea how to use it all

[numotsbane]

haha well I used all 50k on my engineer - and they get research discounts. I think in the end I settled for heavy warp ammo over flash, just because I think flash has too much redundancy with the engineers' toolset.

I should really do another engineer playthrough, I only ever did one and it was grand.

[termokanden]

Yeah I enjoyed engineer a lot as well, even though people rate the class as very poor compared to the rest.



But I completely agree on Flashbang for engineers. You're already shutting down the most dangerous enemy in every fight with Drone.

[Bozorgmehr]

numotsbane wrote...

I think thats it... its fun, but not necessarily super effective. also, the thing I really don't like about it is that as you spend more points your slave becomes harder to kill. I don't want an enemy i've just used a power on coming back to bite me in the ass in 9 seconds, I want him to distract my enemies and then die.
also, that one time I 'dominated' an eclipse sister and she got a 350pt barrier and then kept attacking me... well, that was the dealbreaker.

I gave Domination a proper try and I'm really in awe. This is an excellent power. I didn't use it on Shep, but used Morinth to mind-control enemies. It's a highly effective CC ability, completely disorientating the enemy; everybody starts shooting each other and enemies don't know where to go or who to attack.

See for yourself: www.youtube.com/watch

[IMNWME]

Dominate is great for Morinth, but not as good for Shep.

[numotsbane]

Yeah that's what I was thinking IMNWE, though I agree with you Bozorgmehr that dominate is good, I just don't think it's worth shepards bonus power slot. Shepard can make so much better use of other powers.

Which begs the question: what do we recommend for engineers if dominate isn't making the most use?

[fegede]

Last engineer I did maxed reave instead of incinerate.... a bad idea when I look back at it. Didn't use cryo at all and I don't like a maxed AI hacking so there were a lot of ''unused'' points, and it was not a really a tech skill at all.... I could try 1pt slam to get warp explosions (still not very tech-ish), but I think the best to spice it up would be to max energy drain, incinerate, combat drone and tech mastery and put 3 points in cryo blast, AI hacking and overload (to get incinerate). I hope it will allow my engineer to be more aggressive.

[IMNWME]

Well, I'm gonna do it. All this talk about Engineers made me break out my old one just to try out the Firepack DLC. I just did a quick run through Haestrom with AI Hacking 3, Overload 3, Attack Drone, and the Mattock. Garrus w/ Area Overload and Zaeed with Squad Disruptor were my teammates.



First of all, the Mattock just owns. There was one point in the mission, when there was a mob of three Geth grunts plus a rocket trooper. I sent a Drone into their midst, shot off a grunt's shield, Hacked him, then ran in during the confusion with the Mattock and hosed them all down. Lots of aggressive play, even though I was focused around "casting." Threw some melees in there, and I took down the Colossus fast enough to keep Reegar from dying, even though I picked the Renegade option. Definitely good times.



I'm about to do Samara's recruitment mission, armed with Dominate 3. Let's see if Dominate really is a useful bonus power for the Engineer (even though it's definitely worse than Hack... not instant/exposes you to fire longer/etc.)

[termokanden]

For an engineer, I would definitely take an ammo power. Doesn't matter which one, both are good. They already have crowd control and powers to spam. They just need more weapon damage.

You could take a squadmate with a squad ammo power with you, but that limits your choice somewhat.

Modifié par termokanden, 29 août 2010 - 05:27 .

[IMNWME]

Okay, nevermind, I was wrong. Dominate is AWESOME for the Engineer. I'll write up a strat guide later, but I just did a couple missions on Insanity, and I'm crushing instances, even ones where the Engineer should be weak (Barrier-heavy missions like Samara's recruitment).

termo, I used to think the same way. The first time I completed Insanity with my Engineer, I used Tungsten Ammo/Flashbang Grenade/GSB. However, I could never get the Engie's given arsenal of powers to "click" (except on Geth missions, obviously). Drone isn't an "instant win" button like the other classes' signature abilities, and using Incinerate/Overload relegates you to defense-stripping, which slooooooows down clear times, especially because you can't spend a lot of time out of cover shooting.

With Dominate, though, everything falls into place. Here's my build for my new Insanity Engineer:

Overload 3
Incineration Blast
Attack Drone
Cryo Blast 2
AI Hacking 3
Demolisher (although I should respec for the +15% power duration)
Dominate 3

51/51 points used.

Here's my general strategy:

Send out Drone. Use ally power to defense strip a grunt. Dominate/Hack. Use the Mattock to defense strip another enemy. I should have my cool-down back by then to Dominate/Hack again. Run into the middle of the civil war that's just erupted and shoot everything to death with the Mattock, using melees liberally.

That's not just a special case, that's pretty much how every instance goes. I almost never use my direct damage dealing powers until I'm in the middle of a divided mob, at which point I'll use Overload on mechs or Incineration Blast on organics to finish them off. I've rushed down 4-5 enemies at once just because two of them are my slaves and Drone is in play, which I've NEVER been able to do before with the Engineer using just an ammo power and Cryo Blast (except, again, on Geth missions).

I no longer micro-manage my squad mates or fear rushers anymore while playing the Engineer. I also get into trouble a lot LESS, even though my aggressiveness went through the roof. You don't necessarily have to rush in... it's very possible to just start Cryo Blasting enemies in health once you've possessed a couple minions. Plus, you still have a beefy Overload and Incineration Blast if you ever are stripping enemy protections (you shouldn't be, except against bosses).

This really opened my eyes, but it makes sense. Drone's best use is as a distraction in the middle of combat. The more distractions you have in play, the less you're getting shot at. The effects of having multiple allies is cumulative. Only the Engineer can have four allies within the opening seconds of battle, and five in the next <6 seconds. Try it out, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

EDIT: I really wish I could record videos, damn.  Some of these are just ridiculous.  For instance, right before you meet Samara, you run into a mob of five enemies, one Sisterhood Initiate, one Eclipse Vanguard, and 3 Loki Mechs.  This is what I did: take cover, Drone, Thane Warp, Dominate the Initiate, shoot off Vanguard's Barrier, Dominate the Vanguard, shoot some of the Lokis, kill one, Hack the other, run in and kill the remaining four enemies using the Mattock and melees.  This is FAST.  You basically want to set up a situation where the enemies become so focused on killing each other and Drone, that you can be in their face shooting them while taking no fire.  I did the rest of the mission this way, and didn't die once.

To compare, I used an older save and did the same mission, with Tungsten ammo as my bonus.  In the first battle, my shield broke several times under concentrated fire while I was using Incinerate/Overload, and I died because the Lokis closed in.

Modifié par IMNWME, 29 août 2010 - 07:35 .

[numotsbane]

Ok fine. I will go back and re-test dominate. Are you happy now?

I have a feeling that I might want to drop points from cryo in the build you have. I generally don't like having too many 'health only' options. then again, if your using others for defence stripping than it may be all cool.

playing up close, do you think the GPS may actually be as good as the mattock for this build? I guess it is harder to spam shotgun fire, but if you set up early you could charge the shotgun, one shot a defence and then set up hack/ dominate.

[IMNWME]

numotsbane wrote...

Ok fine. I will go back and re-test dominate. Are you happy now?

Haha, very much.  I've played this game a LOT, so just like in ME1, most of my runs are dedicated to finding "optimal" builds.  It's always good when other players grok the builds you've been testing.

I have a feeling that I might want to drop points from cryo in the build you have. I generally don't like having too many 'health only' options. then again, if your using others for defence stripping than it may be all cool.

Cryo 2 is necessary to unlock AI Hacking.  Plus, I like to use my squadmates to defense strip anyways, and save my cool-downs for Drone/Hack/Dominate.  After the first guy's defenses go down, you generally defense strip less and less.

playing up close, do you think the GPS may actually be as good as the mattock for this build? I guess it is harder to spam shotgun fire, but if you set up early you could charge the shotgun, one shot a defence and then set up hack/ dominate.

I tried Shotguns (only the Evi), and couldn't achieve the same results as I got with the Mattock.  GPS might work, but as an Engineer, you're generally going to have to take the first available piece of cover when a battle begins.  That sometimes means it's outside the GPS' effective range (even though its range is HUGE for a shotgun), especially if enemies are on ledges.  I'll try it out and get back to you, but I know for sure that the Mattock works well at hosing down multiple enemies.

[numotsbane]

IMNWE wrote...

Cryo 2 is necessary to unlock AI Hacking.

sigh. yes, its been one of those days.

I can't test shotguns; I'm on 360 and only have a level 30 engineer with AR to play with. and pretty much no missions left too... damn. I assume you're on PC so you'd probably have it easier testing out multiple builds. I know Average Gatsby had some pretty good success with area dominate in his video engineer guide. I'll probably run through some N7 missions with that to get a feel for it.