90 réponses à ce sujet

[KalosCast]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I still doubt it will be defined as Fine art.

But the point is moot because "Fine Art" has become a more or less meaninglss term that exists solely to gratify the tastes of whoever's using it at the time. Similar to how there is no definitive point when something is or isn't considered music, but people will hem and haw and do everything in their power to prove that whatever genre they dislike "sure as hell isn't music, and definitely isn't art" anyway.

[KalosCast]

Bryzon wrote...
Yes
Yes
Yes

You do not see art in the design of a car, pen, or human body? All are beautiful in their own ways. You are confusing art and exceptional art. You see something like a Roman sculpture as art because you have been told it is art, and things that you weren't told that are art must not be art. Performance and writing can also be art, not just the tangeable objects.

Back to the conversation of a videogame, there are several layers of art within. These would include animation, character design, texture art, voice acting, motion capture, and writing.

Ugh, people like you are the reason there's a man who became a millionare due to covering a canvas in tar. That's it. That's all this work is, and it hangs in what's considered to be a legitimate major art museum. It's not even cleverly titled.

And no, there's no art in the human body. There can be art in the depiction of a human body, but since the human being is a natural forming occurance, it's actually less art than... a canvas covered in tar.

Modifié par KalosCast, 24 juin 2010 - 04:22 .

[SirVincealot]

The "art - not art / art - Art" discussion is a red herring wrapped in a misdirection filled with gooey helpings of collegespeak.

We aught to be discussing whether a thing is well made or it is not.

MASS EFFECT is all kinds of silly and broad but it is overall rather well made like, say, a black velvet paint-by-numbers. Or my grandma's macrame.

Modifié par SirVincealot, 24 juin 2010 - 06:26 .

[SuperMedbh]

Your Gran runs a team of a hundred odd artists at the top of their profession just to make macrame?  Knotwork rivaling the Book of Kells, eh?  I don't know much about snark, but I know when to roll my eyes.

In all seriousness, the spiff thing about Mass Effect is its popular appeal.  As Slim points out, multimedia CG art installations have been around for some time.  I remember some fairly neat stuff back in the late 90s, but it was the sort of thing you'd see displayed in spare halls on campus.  And there have been a number of indie companies putting small little games out, usually in Flash or some such, though (see http://www.feedthehead.net/ , an internet "toy", or a more serious example The Museum of Broken Memories).  Sadly, Tale of Tales is the largest/most successful company that does that sort of game, and it's only through art grants that they stay afloat.

But that's not true for Bioware--  their sales are doing quite nicely, yet they are putting out works that are narrative focused.  To dodge the Art question, let's call them darned good works of genre fiction.  If it's what the public wants, why not tell those kinds of stories?  Perhaps the videogame equivalent of Star Wars doesn't seem earthshattering, but it's a significant step forward compared to the mainstream games of less than a decade ago.

[Worrywort]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I could name several pieces I'd consider positively sublime.
Ico, The Path, Silent Hill, Braid, Grim Fandango, The Void, Portal, And Yet It Moves...

The Path is one of the most overrated games ever IMO. It's incredibly pretentious.

[Siansonea]

I find the idea of a pretentious video game rather oxymoronic.



The idea of what constitutes art evolves constantly. And really, who cares what label is applied? A rose by any other name, and all that.

[cajoling_Andy]

who cares what others think anyways? if you feel something is moving enough to be art then it is simple as that. if you let other people tell you what is/ is not art then you do not know what art is. it is simply something that is more than the sum of its parts. it moves you or at the least invokes an emotional response. at least that is what defines art for me

[imaDEVIENT]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Oh, I didn't mean to make a judgement of value. If there's anything I hate, it's when people attempt to define "great art".
As if the artistic expression wasn't enough in the first place.
What I meant by primarily referring to Mass Effect's audial and visual aspects, was that these are arguably the areas in which the franchise really shows its colours. So to speak.

And Tale of Tales is probably my favourite creative company involved with the interactive arts at the moment.
Their FATALE is worth checking out as well, though the control scheme is perhaps a bit too consciously obscure for its own good.

Oh, and I'd like to add one more prominent title to my list; Mirror's Edge.
Despite the throwaway intrigue and tiresome combat sections, it's an ethereal experience.

I love this game.

[nikki191]

SuperMedbh wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

YohkoOhno wrote...

When Critics like Ebert talk about Videogames not being art, they are more specifically discussing the Fine Arts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Art

I don't see anything yet in video games that approaches this.

http://tale-of-tales.com/ThePath/

+1  Seriously, anyone who enjoys videogames past a "pow pow pow" level owes it to themselves to play the Path.  Last I checked, it's all of $10.

its stunning and to me a work of art. its an experience

[Bryy_Miller]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think Ebert is a joke. What is art?  What is an artist?   What is good art?  What is bad art?  It's all subjective and up to individual interpretation.

You do realize that you psued-contradicted yourself, right? You say the Ebert is a joke, but then that an opinion is an opinion.

[Chuvvy]

My face when people try and define art.

[withateethuh]

I game can be art as much as a movie can. And Mass Effect is definitely a better example.



I mean, you have all of these concept artists who create the visual world, writers who create the story and characters, and gameplay designers who make the game play the way they feel like it should. Art is an abstract term so theres no reason it cant apply to videogames.

[Spornicus]

Roger Ebert is a hack. He's never even played a videogame (probably hasn't seen one either) and decries them as not art. Tell that to all the people who pour their heart and soul creative something beautiful in the form of a videogame.

[Bryy_Miller]

Spornicus wrote...

Roger Ebert is a hack. He's never even played a videogame (probably hasn't seen one either) and decries them as not art. Tell that to all the people who pour their heart and soul creative something beautiful in the form of a videogame.

Well, he did apologize.

[dreman9999]

The article was about games that are considered art. The list included braid, super mario bros. ,Shadow of the colossus and Bioshock.
It all based on what Ebert said about how games arn't art. Which is b.s.

[dreman9999]

slimgrin wrote...

Certainly art constitutes more than an opinion. You must be able to:

-Create in a medium

-Convey an idea effectively in that medium

-Inspire the viewer

Does ME2 do this?

Yes, in spades. You also for getting emotion and attachment in your meaning as well.

[dreman9999]

Slidell505 wrote...

My face when people try and define art.

I can easily do it.

Art is any medium that can attract any emotion and /or emotional attachments and /or significant meaning to it's form. In short, It's the human attachment made between viewer or attendee and medium the makes it art be it food, music , dance, illustration, painting or interactive medium aka games.

[dreman9999]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think Ebert is a joke. What is art?  What is an artist?   What is good art?  What is bad art?  It's all subjective and up to individual interpretation.

You do realize that you psued-contradicted yourself, right? You say the Ebert is a joke, but then that an opinion is an opinion.

But his opinion had no grounds. One would be upset about this if he gave any soiled fact on his opinion but he did not. It was all based on ignorance.

[Bryy_Miller]

dreman9999 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

My face when people try and define art.

I can easily do it.

Art is any medium that can attract any emotion and /or emotional attachments and /or significant meaning to it's form. In short, It's the human attachment made between viewer or attendee and medium the makes it art be it food, music , dance, illustration, painting or interactive medium aka games.

Okay, but now define it and try not to be a smartass.

It's a lot harder, isn't it?

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:34 .

[dreman9999]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

My face when people try and define art.

I can easily do it.

Art is any medium that can attract any emotion and /or emotional attachments and /or significant meaning to it's form. In short, It's the human attachment made between viewer or attendee and medium the makes it art be it food, music , dance, illustration, painting or interactive medium aka games.

Okay, but now define it and try not to be a smartass.

It's a lot harder, isn't it?

Define it with out being a smart ass???
You have no idea how much art history I had to learn to about to easily give the definition.

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:32 .

[Bryy_Miller]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think Ebert is a joke. What is art?  What is an artist?   What is good art?  What is bad art?  It's all subjective and up to individual interpretation.

You do realize that you psued-contradicted yourself, right? You say the Ebert is a joke, but then that an opinion is an opinion.

But his opinion had no grounds. One would be upset about this if he gave any soiled fact on his opinion but he did not. It was all based on ignorance.

I'm quite simply appalled that you, an art history student, don't understand that it doesn't matter, it's still his opinion. Based on ignorance or fact, it is still HIS. 

[Sable Phoenix]

Anyone who tries to claim games can't be art has never played Planescape:Torment, or if they have, they didn't understand it.

Planescape:Torment is literature.

[Bryy_Miller]

Okay, let's not get entirely stupid here. Debating what is and is not art is one thing, saying that one medium is another medium is another.