713 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Ecael's most excellent post in all its original glory can still be found here. This newer version contains updated information on the infamous Hold the Line score. -- Pacifien

This is a detailed guide covering every aspect of the final mission for where and how squadmates can die. For a concise guide that tells you only what you need to know for guaranteed 100% survival rate, click here for Occams Razor 17's guide.

Mood Music courtesy of FieryPhoenix7

stands for Loyal
[Death] is usually determined on a priority list, usually noted with ; start with the first on the list and, if that squadmate isn't available, proceed to the next on the list.

Note: Probably the most difficult aspect of this mission to understand is the section called "Hold the Line." If you're experiencing a squadmate death at this section, read it carefully. Also, understanding this portion of the mission is critical for those seeking to orchestrate a particular outcome.

The Crew, Normandy Invasion

The kidnapping of the crew starts a mission timer for how long you have before heading to the Omega-4 Mass Relay to rescue them without penalty. Mining for minerals and landing on hub worlds do not count against this timer, just missions.

0 missions before Omega-4 Relay = [Survived!]
     1-3 missions before Omega-4 Relay = [Death] 50% Crew
     >3 missions before Omega-4 Relay = [Death] 100% Crew except Dr. Chakwas

Through the Omega-4 Relay, Normandy Upgrades

Upgrades are provided by Jacob (armor), Tali (shields), and Garrus (weapons). Failure to upgrade will result in the death of a squadmate on the approach to the Collector Base.

1. Heavy Ship Armor
Yes = [Survived!]
No = [Death]
    

2. Multicore Shielding
Note: Squadmates taken to fight the Oculus or were not recruited obviously cannot die at this point, so move to the next squadmate on the list.
Yes = [Survived!]
No = [Death] (Priority List)
    
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        

3. Thanix Cannon
Yes = [Survived!]
No = [Death] (Priority List)
    
        
        
        
        
        

Collector Homeworld, The Vents

Survival of the tech specialist requires picking the correct squadmate for both roles of tech specialist and fireteam leader. This decision is made before the autosave as you step onto the Collector Base.

1. Tech Specialist




with

2. First Fire Team Leader




[Survived!]

Any other combination = [Death] of Tech Specialist

Collector Homeworld, The Long Walk

The Long Walk consists of three elements that affect success of the mission: the seeker swarms, the distraction team, and the escort.

1. Biotic Specialist - The Seeker Swarm




[Survived!]

Any Other Biotic/Unloyal Biotic = [Death] 1 of the 2 squadmates with Shepard (Priority List - Regardless of ) *Exception 1*
    
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        


2. Second Fire Team Leader - The Distraction Team
http://imgur.com/hg8...r.com/5WW2T.png
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/hg8...r.com/AOKjQ.png
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/hg8...r.com/xpF8J.png
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/5WW2T.png *Exception 2*

[Survived!]

http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Any other combination = [Death] Second Leader *Exception 3*


3. The Escort *Exception 4*
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png Send http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Send Nonhttp://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png = [Death] Escort
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png No Escort = [Death] Crew, including Dr. Chakwas


Exceptions
1. Miranda will always survive going through the Seeker Swarms. (Evidence to the contrary found on YouTube are actually using a glitch.)
2. As stated above, Miranda will survive Second Fire Team Leader regardless of loyalty.
3. If the Second Fire Team Leader is by herself/himself, they will automatically survive if another squadmate had died during the walk through the seeker swarms.
4. Miranda cannot be chosen as an escort for the crew.

Collector Homeworld, The Final Boss

http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png = [Survived!]
http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Nonhttp://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png = [Death] Non-loyal squadmates

Collector Homeworld, Hold the Line!

Determining who dies when the squadmates are left to Hold the Line is a matter of who is left to Hold the Line. Like the previous specialist roles during the mission, there are certain squadmates who are better suited for the defense than others. However, being a strong defender is only one aspect of the overall determination of squadmate deaths in this section, so you will need to read this section carefully if you're having issues here.

Note: If all you're interested in achieving is a perfect survival rate, leave the strongest defenders to Hold the Line. That's the easiest way to go about it and spares you having to calculate averages.

[Hold the Line] Defense Ranks
Note: Knowing the defense rank is only necessary for a more detailed calculation of the Hold the Line Score discussed later in this section.
The Strongest Defenders - Base score of 3 (4 if http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png):
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/oPXXN.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/GC9BW.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/xpF8J.png

The Average Defenders - Base score of 1 (2 if http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png):
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/2Tdno.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/my7ul.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/ClG4s.png http://imgur.com/3vW4k.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/AOKjQ.png
http://imgur.com/8C2...r.com/5WW2T.png

The Weakest Defenders - Base score of 0 (1 if http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png):
http://imgur.com/Bwl...r.com/mksNJ.png
http://imgur.com/Bwl...r.com/fJ92i.png
http://imgur.com/Bwl...r.com/R0Qwo.png
http://imgur.com/Bwl...r.com/9yD1s.png


[Hold the Line] Priority Death List
First, nonhttp://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png squadmates will die before http://imgur.com/hg8Ko.png squadmates. Second, weak defenders die before stronger ones.
http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Hold the Line Death List:
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png http://imgur.com/9yD1s.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/R0Qwo.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/fJ92i.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/mksNJ.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/5WW2T.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/AOKjQ.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/xpF8J.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/ClG4s.png http://imgur.com/3vW4k.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/my7ul.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/2Tdno.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/GC9BW.png
         http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png http://imgur.com/oPXXN.png


[Hold the Line] Point Value Averages
Every squadmate brings a value to the defense and they get a +1 bonus if they're loyal. To calculate the Hold the Line Average Score, we add the values for each squadmate who is being left to Hold the Line and then divide that total by the number of squadmates at the battle. Using this average, you can determine how many squadmates are going to die (if any) while they Hold the Line. How many squadmates are at the defense will alter what average is needed to meet different death rate requirements.

Ensuring everyone's survival is all about meeting the proper defense score average. This average is 2.0.

Point Value Ratings - Squad of 5 or more
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2.0 or higher = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 2.0, Greater than or equal to 1.5 = [Death] 1 squadmate
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 1.5, Greater than or equal to 0.5 = [Death] 2 squadmates
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 0.5 = [Death] 3 squadmates


Combinations of 4
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2.0 or higher = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 2.0, Greater than 1.0 = [Death] 1 squadmate
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Equal to or less than 1.0, Greater than or equal to 0.5 = [Death] 2 squadmates
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 0.5 = [Death] 3 squadmates
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Exactly 0.0 = [Death] All squadmates (Only in a "Shepard dies" scenario.)


Combinations of 3
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2.0 or higher = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 2.0, Greater than or equal to 1.0 = [Death] 1 squadmate
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 1.0, Greater than 0.0 = [Death] 2 squadmates
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Exactly 0.0 = [Death] All squadmates


Combinations of 2
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2.0 or higher = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 2.0, Greater than 0.0 = [Death] 1 squadmate
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Exactly 0.0 = [Death] All squadmates


Power of 1
http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2.0 or higher = [Survived!]
     http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png Less than 2.0 = [Death]


Note: At least one person always survives Holding the Line unless the average is 0 or they're the only defender with a value less than 2.0. If the one person who survived Holding the Line is the only surviving squadmate from the whole mission, the game will play it as if everyone had died. This is because you need at least 2 surviving squadmates for Shepard to live.

Shepard Lives or Dies?

Shepard needs 2 squadmates to survive in order to survive the mission as well. These surviving squadmates can come from any combination of escort, Hold the Line, or final boss fight.

http://imgur.com/8C2Z4.png 2 or more squadmates alive = [Survived!]
    http://imgur.com/BwlZL.png 1 or no squadmates alive = [Death] Shepard

Modifié par Ecael, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[Ecael]

Occams Razor 17's Guide to Keeping Everyone Alive

(Original Link, by Occams Razor 17)

These are the steps to ensure that everyone survives. It is possible to have everyone survive without following all of these steps, but this is the simplest, surest way to do so.

• Get all Loyalties.
• Get all Combat Ship Upgrades (Shields, Armor, Cannon)
• Go directly to Omega 4 Relay after abduction. (Make sure Legion's loyalty mission is the first thing you do after IFF mission)
• Tech: Tali, Legion, or Kasumi (Must be loyal)
• Leader: Miranda, Garrus, and/or Jacob (Must be loyal)
• Biotics: Samara/Morinth, or Jack (Must be loyal)
• Hold the Line: Grunt, Garrus, and Zaeed (Leave these squadmates behind during the boss fight, and don't give them escort duty)
• Escort/Boss Fight: Anyone squishy who you wouldn't want on the Line (Mordin, Tali, etc) (Must be loyal)

It's not possible to have anyone die if you follow those guidelines, and it is possible to get away with unloyal people on the line if you do follow them closely.

Here is the original OP that explains why characters can die off camera during the boss fight and Hold the Line:

Dusty Everman's Mordin Explanation
Kim Stolz's Zaeed 'Leader' Explanation

Hope this helps people out; and thanks, Dusty, for this info!

-Occams Razor 17

And now for the credits...

Modifié par Pacifien, 08 octobre 2010 - 09:36 .

[Terminus Echoes]

 Hm... this is from a GameInformer magazine, correct? My cousin has one of these that I saw, and it was very similar.
Regardless, thanks for posting this. I'm sure it will help 

[Ecael]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

 Hm... this is from a GameInformer magazine, correct? My cousin has one of these that I saw, and it was very similar.
Regardless, thanks for posting this. I'm sure it will help 

Nope. This one is complete and also corrects all of the mistakes the GameInformer article made.

Compare the Hold the Line sections, you'll see what I mean.



These are the GameInformer article scans:
http://pics.livejour...ix/pic/0002pzdc
http://pics.livejour...ix/pic/0002kw34

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 06:10 .

[TelexFerra]

Very nice job Ecael.



Again, you've managed ot get me to read something I otherwise would not have read by using pictures .



I hope this lowers the amount of help threads. This guide is great.

[TK Dude]

Another helpful guide thread from Ecael.

Thanks, it really helped.

[Pacifien]

Yay, I'm an assistant!

Wait, the assistants always die...

Even with the ultimate of guides, I doubt it will stop the questions about the suicide mission from rolling in. It just provides a good link to direct them to when they do ask.

The guide is certainly user friendly to me, but that's because I've done quite a bit of work on trying to figure out the suicide mission. Hopefully it's user friendly to someone who hasn't. I did have to squint a bit at the part about what happens when Shepard is left with 1 squadmate alive and those holding the line, but I figured it out eventually.

Shepard's Survival
     - Two squadmates must survive in order for Shepard to survive
          - If 2 out of 3 survive being an escort and/or the final boss fight, Shepard will live
          - If 1 out of 3 survive being an escort and/or the final boss fight, 1 squadmate will automatically survive Holding the Line
          - If 0 out of 3 survive being an escort and/or the final boss fight, Shepard's survival will depend on how well the other squadmates survive Holding the Line
          - If 0 out of 3 survive being an escort and/or the final boss fight and if there was only 1 squadmate left to Hold the Line, Shepard will die

Huh. And people talk about Miranda having plot armor...

[Pacifien]

Oh hey, I only just figured out that you have to have a minimum of 8 squadmates to start the suicide mission.

[TelexFerra]

Look at you Pacifen...



an assistant

[Bhatair]

Yay, bookmarked for future killings off of certain squadmates.

Thanks, excellent guide.

[nocturne98]

Great work! This is indeed the ultimate guide.

Modifié par nocturne98, 21 juin 2010 - 08:11 .

[Ecael]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I had a playthrough one time where I used Jack as the first fire team leader, Jacob for the vents, Mordin as the escort, Garrus as the second fire team leader, and Thane for the bubble. Mordin and Jacob were unloyal among a couple of the others. I did not activate Legion.

The only ones that died were Jacob in the vents (headshot closing the door), Mordin who escorted, and Grunt by a seeker swarm.

Hold the Line becomes easier for everyone to survive the fewer people there are. It's weird, but that's the way it works. It appears you only missed a few opportunities to get people killed.

:happy:

[TelexFerra]

The fewer people you have, the less likely it is you'll have people under 2.0 points, which means it's more likely to get higher than a 2.0 average.

[Ecael]

TelexFerra wrote...

The fewer people you have, the less likely it is you'll have people under 2.0 points, which means it's more likely to get higher than a 2.0 average.

The same is true of college courses.

"I have straight Garrus's on my transcript!"

Actually, that doesn't sound right...

[Onyx Jaguar]

In that it says that a non-loyal Jack has 0 points at the hold the line segment. But on my last playthrough with only loyal Zaeed, Kasumi and Legion (Kasumi taking back the crew and me taking Zaeed and Legion to the final fight) only Mordin and Tali died.

So would there be more emphasis on Mordin and Tali being weaker I guess is what I am saying?

EDIT:  nvm, I see it is explained after the point layout

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 21 juin 2010 - 10:49 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Another awesome thread from Jentha!



Great stuff, dude. Really useful.

[Ecael]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

In that it says that a non-loyal Jack has 0 points at the hold the line segment. But on my last playthrough with only loyal Zaeed, Kasumi and Legion (Kasumi taking back the crew and me taking Zaeed and Legion to the final fight) only Mordin and Tali died.

So would there be more emphasis on Mordin and Tali being weaker I guess is what I am saying?

EDIT:  nvm, I see it is explained after the point layout

They contribute the same amount to the overall defense score, but non-loyal Mordin will always die first if he's HTL.

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 10:54 .

[XX55XX]

This guide just simply tells me how limited the options are in the suicide mission... If BioWare were to include more of these sort of missions in ME3, please, give more options to allow people to live and die. 

[Ecael]

XX55XX wrote...

This guide just simply tells me how limited the options are in the suicide mission... If BioWare were to include more of these sort of missions in ME3, please, give more options to allow people to live and die. 

Zaeed and Samara/Morinth can die outside the Omega-4 mission, at least.

I would like to see more Virmire/Collector Base multi-squad missions in ME3 though.

[TelexFerra]

How can Samara/Morinth die outside of the suicide mission.



Or are you saying that either can be killed during the loyalty mission.

[NYG1991]

Ecael wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

This guide just simply tells me how limited the options are in the suicide mission... If BioWare were to include more of these sort of missions in ME3, please, give more options to allow people to live and die. 

Zaeed and Samara/Morinth can die outside the Omega-4 mission, at least.

I would like to see more Virmire/Collector Base multi-squad missions in ME3 though.

how does zaeed die outside of relay?

[TelexFerra]

If you do his loyalty mission after Omega4, you can leave him to burn assuming you took the paragon path.

[Ecael]

TelexFerra wrote...

How can Samara/Morinth die outside of the suicide mission.

Or are you saying that either can be killed during the loyalty mission.

Yup.

[Pacifien]

If you take the paragon path during Zaeed's mission, you can leave him to die under the fallen pillar at the end. However, you will not have the option to leave him to die if you do his mission post-suicide mission and he's one of two squadmates left.

As for Samara and Morinth, it's more about one dying while the other survives. You can kill Morinth and keep Samara. Or you can keep Morinth and kill Samara. However, you need a considerable persuasion score (paragon or renegade) to get the option to keep Morinth.