713 réponses à ce sujet

[HakkyounoTenshi]

I have a question about how the Hold the Line score is calculated. Is it the total points of the defenders divided the number of defenders, or is it divided by number of living squadmates regardless of where they are?

[Pacifien]

So far we've determined it's divided by the number of defenders, but the math doesn't always work. I gave up trying to figure it out... well, for now. It works for the most part, but there's oddities.

[HakkyounoTenshi]

Do the calculations change based on on the difficulty setting? My brother said they did, but he isn't always the most reliable with these things.

[Pacifien]

Okay, this is speculation...
Add the scores for those who are holding the line. For each loyal final boss or escort squadmate, add 1 to the HtL score. (Why add 1 for each loyal squadmate not holding the line? Because a developer told me there's a +1 bonus for each loyal squadmate.) Divide by the number of squadmates left holding the line. That is your actual HtL average.

This is a rundown of anomalous situations that have been mentioned in this thread so far:
uL Samara + uL Legion + uL Miranda + L final boss squadmate + uL final boss squadmate + no escort
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 0 = 4 / 3 = 1.3 --> 2 squadmates need to die --> One from final boss, one from HtL

uL Samara + uL Legion + uL Miranda + L final boss squadmate + L final boss squadmate + no escort
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 5 / 3 = 1.6 --> 1 squadmate needs to die --> One from HtL

L Mordin + L Legion + L Morinth + uL Tali + L final boss + L final boss + no escort
1 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 7 / 4 = 1.75 --> 1 squadmate needs to die --> One from HtL

uL Samara + uL Legion + uL Jacob + uL Miranda + L final boss + uL final boss + no escort
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 1 = 5 / 4 = 1.25 --> 2 squadmates need to die --> One from final boss, two from HtL

So I've hit where the equation fails based on the average score from the original post. However, that original post based the averages just using the squadmates holding the line. Perhaps < 1.3 is needed for 3 squadmates to die?

L Tali + L Mordin + uL Zaeed + uL Thane + uL Miranda + uL Jack + uL Kasumi + L final boss + L final boss + ? escort (escort wasn't mentioned)
1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 9 / 7 = 1.29 --> 3 squadmates need to die --> three from HtL
1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 10 / 7 = 1.42 --> 2 squadmates need to die --> since the escort wasn't mentioned in this scenario, I don't know if the three who died during HtL were affected by the escort

uL Jack + uL Mordin + uL Kasumi + uL Tali + L final boss + L final boss + L escort
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 / 4 = 0.75 --> 2 squadmates need to die --> 3 from HtL

Again, the average scores need to be readjusted to accommodate the loyal squadmates at the final boss and the escort. So perhaps < 0.8 is needed for 3 squadmates to die?

I wish Ecael was around to help work on this.

Oh yeah, and I've already determined that only having two squadmates left to hold the line will drastically change the outcome.

Modifié par Pacifien, 22 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[Pacifien]

HakkyounoTenshi wrote...
Do the calculations change based on on the difficulty setting? My brother said they did, but he isn't always the most reliable with these things.

I've tested from every difficulty setting from casual to insanity and the results were consistent across all difficulty settings.

[derLoko]

Another oddity:

Chars used at HTL:
L Garrus, L Grunt,
Miranda, Jacob, Thane, Samara, Legion
= Miranda dies

escort and boss mates were all L.
should be:
4+4 + 1+1+1+1+1 = 13/7, 16/7 with bonus from escort and boss?

3 Full play-throughs, and not once being able to keep everyone alive. I am keeping to the guide, but the fight between Jack and Miranda always catches me out and leads to a death. Thanks for the tips!

I lost Miranda's L during that fight as well, maybe that really has something to do with it?
Also, I did Thane's loyality mission but failed.

Modifié par derLoko, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:09 .

[Pacifien]

derLoko wrote...
Another oddity:

Chars used at HTL:
L Garrus, L Grunt,
Miranda, Jacob, Thane, Samara, Legion
= Miranda dies

escort and boss mates were all L.
should be:
4+4 + 1+1+1+1+1 = 13/7, 16/7 with bonus from escort and boss?

So the formula as seen in the original post works if you don't take the escort and final boss squadmates into account, but if you do, then no one should have died.

The part that gives me the most trouble is the following two scenarios:
unloyals Legion, Miranda, and Samara -> average score of 1.0 -> only Miranda dies
unloyals Jacob, Legion, Miranda and Samara -> average score is still 1.0 -> both Jacob and Miranda die

The average score was the same, but the number of people holding the line were different, and the number of people who died were different as well. This makes me think the missing part of the equation doesn't have anything to do with the escort and final boss squadmates, but simply the number of people holding the line.

So the average score to keep all 3 people alive is different than the average score needed to keep 4 people alive. Dammit, if only I took that second semester in Statistics and Probabilities...

[Mindless_Prey]

With all upgrades to the ship, here was my team on hardcore:

Vents: Tali
Fire Team: Miranda
Escort: Mordin
Biotic: Samara
Fire Team 2: Garrus
Final two members for boss: Thane and Samara

ALL SURVIVED. 

[Pacifien]

Surviving is the easy part.

[Starscream723]

Hi guys and girls, I'm looking for a little help.

I'm wanting to do a run through where the only survivors are Shepard, Tali and Garrus (i.e. the ME1 crew).

Can anyone suggest an appropriate sequence of events to achieve this (i.e. who does what, who is killed where, who is loyal, etc.)

I've tried to work one out, but I'm not 100% certain, and I don't want to have other people surviving while holding the line, and have to start over again.

Here's my current thinking:

Legion is sent to Cerberus
Jack dies on the ship
Kasumi dies on the ship
Thane dies on the ship
Jacob dies after being sent through vent
Nobody sent with Chakwas - crew dies.
Samara dies after being carried away by swarm (Miranda operates field, Mordin or Tali other squadmate)
Grunt dies after being selected as fireteam leader.
Disloyal Mordin and Disloyal Miranda taken to boss fight: both die.

Loyal Garrus, Disloyal Tali and Disloyal Zaeed left to hold the line. According to the first post in this topic, that should give 4 points from Garrus, 3 points from Zaeed, and 0 points from Tali, thus an average of 2.33 points, and they should all survive? Yes? Please??

Then of course I'll go do Zaeed's mission, and leave him to die.

PLEASE comment to let me know if this will work or not. I'm basing this off the original post, but my instinct is that Tali could get killed holding the line by doing this.

Modifié par Starscream723, 25 juillet 2010 - 04:03 .

[Pacifien]

Starscream723 wrote...
Hi guys and girls, I'm looking for a little help.

I'm wanting to do a run through where the only survivors are Shepard, Tali and Garrus (i.e. the ME1 crew).

Can anyone suggest an appropriate sequence of events to achieve this (i.e. who does what, who is killed where, who is loyal, etc.)

The only modification to this would be when you sent Legion to Cerberus. That way, you will not have to worry about escorting the crew back to the Normandy.

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Tali and Garrus (and Dr. Chakwas, for ME1 characters)
-----------------

Loyals: Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Tali, Thane, Kasumi
Non-loyals: Miranda, Legion, Samara, Zaeed
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: Chakwas only

Before the Omega-4 Relay
-Side with Jack during the Miranda/Jack fight
-Side with Tali during the Tali/Legion fight
-Scare Morinth away when you meet her to mess up Samara's loyalty
-Delay going through the Omega-4 Relay (at least 4 missions post crew kidnapping) to get everyone except Chakwas killed
-Take the paragon route for Zaeed's loyalty mission and leave him to die.

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Samara (bring Miranda and Mordin, Mordin dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Legion (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Miranda and Samara (both die)
Distraction Team - Garrus, Tali, Zaeed or just Garrus and Tali if you've already killed Zaeed (your only survivors)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, laser'd
Kasumi - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapon upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Mordin - Died by seeker swarm
Legion - Died escorting Chakwas
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Samara - Died at final boss
Miranda - Died at final boss
Zaeed - Died by fire

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Tali and Garrus (and Dr. Chakwas, for ME1 characters)
-----------------

Modifié par Pacifien, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:25 .

[Starscream723]

Thanks for that. I suppose I used the wrong phase when referring to Garrus and Tali as the ME1 crew, as I DON'T want Chakwas to survive either. I sent Legion to Cerberus because I couldn't find any way to kill enough people otherwise. If there is one, please let me know.



But in this case, should my original plan work? I'm glad of the confirmation that Tali won't die holding the line in that particular combination. Is this still the case if Tali isn't loyal though?

[Pacifien]

I honestly don't know if Tali will survive given that she's unloyal. If someone dies Holding the Line with your setup, it's going to be Tali before Zaeed. Perhaps if you left Grunt in the tank as well?

[Starscream723]

I'll just give it a go and let you know how it turned out.



I went to kill off Zaeed on his mission, followed all the steps I've seen but didn't get the option to leave him. I guess you must have to do this AFTER the suicide mission?



Anyway, this prompted me to reload my previous save, which was halfway through my previous mission recruiting Jack. So I got fed up and gave in for the day. I'll start again tonight.

[a rofl iron]

is it possible to keep everyone alive and still have romance with tali or miranda? because when the fight you have to agree with them or the romance stops.

[Pacifien]

Yeah, just as long as you used the persuasion option or sided with them in the argument. Legion or Jack don't have to be loyal to survive, you just have to be careful with the squadmates you use. Don't use unloyals for specialized roles and don't take them to the final battle. Be careful with who you leave behind in the defense: you want the strongest to defend the position.

[Starscream723]

Just quickly reporting back to say that the method I used (as I set out above) worked perfectly.



Additionally, I got a new set of interactions with Grunt that I hadn't seen before, when I let him out of the tank just before the mission. I usually let him out straight away. It was quite interesting.

[Pacifien]

Starscream723 wrote...
Just quickly reporting back to say that the method I used (as I set out above) worked perfectly.

Additionally, I got a new set of interactions with Grunt that I hadn't seen before, when I let him out of the tank just before the mission. I usually let him out straight away. It was quite interesting.

Okay, good to know for future reference. Garrus and Tali only is a popular combo for mission survivors.

So Grunt's interactions are different, eh? Is it like crazy Liara when you save her mission for last in ME1?

"Find me worthy adversaries, human."
"Okay, let's go."
"Wait, now?"
"Suit up. Suicide mission. Right now."

[Elyvern]

Just curious....it's obvious that Miranda can die at the end of ME2. So what's up with her "invincibility" for 3/4 of the suicide mission?

[Pacifien]

Elyvern wrote...
Just curious....it's obvious that Miranda can die at the end of ME2. So what's up with her "invincibility" for 3/4 of the suicide mission?

She has a lot of dialogue in between segments that I guess they didn't feel like giving to anyone else.

[II J0SePh X II]

Aaah! It's all clear to me now. In my last game, I had all squaddies loyal and all specialists did the right job - but I sent Grunt as escort and took Garrus and Zaeed to the final boss battle. The outcome = Mordin and Tali died.

[FlyinElk212]

Pacifien wrote...

Starscream723 wrote...
Just quickly reporting back to say that the method I used (as I set out above) worked perfectly.

Additionally, I got a new set of interactions with Grunt that I hadn't seen before, when I let him out of the tank just before the mission. I usually let him out straight away. It was quite interesting.

Okay, good to know for future reference. Garrus and Tali only is a popular combo for mission survivors.

So Grunt's interactions are different, eh? Is it like crazy Liara when you save her mission for last in ME1?

"Find me worthy adversaries, human."
"Okay, let's go."
"Wait, now?"
"Suit up. Suicide mission. Right now."

Haha, that'd be awesome! Once again, I'd LOVE to try this if I had a save file nearby!!!!

What exactly was the interaction?

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

So wait.



I can go to planets and buy stuff. I just cannot complete any missions, otherwise crew will die. But if I just go and buy stuff, crew will live?

[freeman2008]

I used Tali and Mordin on my team, Kasumi went as the hacking specialist, Samara for bio shield and Garrus for squad leader on both squads. I then sent Mordin back with the survivors and replaced him with Kasumi on my team for the final battle. Everyone survived.
Since I had been playing under the plan that the mission took priority from the beginning, I stuck with that and finished making everyone loyal and also finished resolving all conflicts before going on suicide mission. I lost most of the crew but saved the doctor.

Modifié par freeman2008, 04 août 2010 - 07:48 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

PKchu wrote...

So wait.

I can go to planets and buy stuff. I just cannot complete any missions, otherwise crew will die. But if I just go and buy stuff, crew will live?

Yes, that's correct. Only missions will be registered as time. Simply flying around the galaxy and visiting hubs to buy stuff won't affect the crew in any way -- unless you actually complete a mission or more.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 06 août 2010 - 08:53 .