713 réponses à ce sujet

[Asari]

Is there an Ecael support thread anywhere?  Great job as usual!

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...

Just do what people normally would do to get Mordin killed. Since Jack is unloyal, she'll die before he does. Unless you're saying Jack is also loyal, in which case the seeker swarm is as good as any.

Yeah she's loyal. So seeker swarm will kill her off then? 

[Pacifien]

Ryzaki wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Just do what people normally would do to get Mordin killed. Since Jack is unloyal, she'll die before he does. Unless you're saying Jack is also loyal, in which case the seeker swarm is as good as any.

Yeah she's loyal. So seeker swarm will kill her off then? 

No.

No, that's a complete lie.

Yes.

Nah, I'm just kidding. No.

Except, no, wait.... yes.

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...

No.

No, that's a complete lie.

Yes.

Nah, I'm just kidding. No.

Except, no, wait.... yes.

*glares in suspicion*

I see.... 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 octobre 2010 - 08:04 .

[achwas]

Pacifien wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Just do what people normally would do to get Mordin killed. Since Jack is unloyal, she'll die before he does. Unless you're saying Jack is also loyal, in which case the seeker swarm is as good as any.

Yeah she's loyal. So seeker swarm will kill her off then? 

No.

No, that's a complete lie.

Yes.

Nah, I'm just kidding. No.

Except, no, wait.... yes.

That's why we love Moderators.. and why they will be the master race behind the Reapers^^

I can see it already... "Ah yes, Moderators - we have dismissed that claim !"

Modifié par achwas, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:10 .

[NitrAce]

Wait, maybe it was a one time thing only but I've done 1 mission(Legion's Loyalty) after the Reapers attacked Normandy and had 100% of the crew survive. How is that possible?

[Cyberfrog81]

The "Suicide Mission Eff-up Generator" (Smeg) is ready for
*Download*
Tested with Windows 7 64bit and Vista 32bit. Hopefully it works for others than me.


It lets your Shepard be a terrible leader, getting most of the team killed... or a great leader, depending on your needs. Basically, you tell the program who you're heading through the Omega-4 relay with and which of them you want to get back on the Normandy alive. The program figures out the rest.

Use this help command to get started:
helpme.
(Yes, all lowercase and end it with '.')


Example:
Girl power / female energy playthrough. You want the women to survive and all the guys to die. Sounds unpleasant, perhaps, but let's go with it. Let's say you have full, loyal team - only missing Zaeed. That means we can use the smL command and simply list who should survive:
smL([lJack,lSamara,lTali,lMiranda,lKasumi]).

Here is one answer:


At this point the program sort of "hangs". What gives? Well, there are possibly more answers . If the given recipe sounds fun enough, we can just hit Enter and we're done. If we want to see the next answer, we use ';' (semicolon). We can do that until the program can't find any more answers.



Acknowledgements
Without this thread, and all the hard work by Ecael and Pacifien, this would have seemed too crazy to attempt. I didn't figure out the facts and rules of the suicide mission, I just implemented them in the programming language. I take no credit whatsoever for this guide.

Known issues
- Without assigning blame (any wrong information in the program output is my
responsibility, and I apologize in advance), there are still some unknowns with the hold-the-line part. The program reflects the current community knowledge, and might also introduce new problems (none too serious that I have discovered, but I fear they are still there... hiding).
- Very little input checking is done. So you can try crazy stuff like having both Morinth and Samara on the mission, or leave Jacob and Jack out of it entirely. Garbage in, garbage out...

Final thought
Yeah, it doesn't look too sexy. But it is quicker and easier to write a command and one or two lists than learning the actual guide by heart, or even just following it once. Or so I tell myself, to be able to sleep at night.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:02 .

[Pacifien]

I'll try to play around with it at some point when I'm not scolding people elsewhere on the forums. I suspect it doesn't do the HtL of 4 squadmates correctly since I just recently learned I had that wrong.

[Cyberfrog81]

True. The hold-the-line part part of the program is somewhat complex, like in the actual guide. And at the moment it treats 4+ size teams the same way.



Have you been investigating the problem? Maybe I could help.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Whilst this isn't really HtL relevant, one other thing to consider is what I have deemed 'The Morinth Effect'. I know it is kind of covered with her positioning in the 'Swarm' spot (and I guess the HtL spot), but basically she really is only killable if you use Jacob (or a non loyal Jack) as biotic and take Miranda along with you.



One thing I have noticed though, having her in the team seems to have an effect on the 2nd Fire Team Leader because in one playthrough where I recruited her but then wanted to kill her off, I got to this stage with the intention of killing off Mordin as 2nd FTL and he didn't die, even though I had 3 others going into the final battle with me (Loyal Garrus and Miranda, non loyal Jacob) so it wasn't as if the ruling with regards 'if only have 2 other squadmates alive then fire team leader always lives' came into play because there was more than 2. It isn't as if it doesn't count her as a squadmate either, because I even had Mordin survive even when I did get Morinth swarmed. I tested this with another playthrough where I kept her alive as well, I had Thane as 2nd Team Leader and he survived when I didn't want him too (tragic love story, as my FemShep cheated on Liara with him), with that playthrough I went to an earlier save and rectified it by getting him killed on the ship, then used a proper team leader for the fire team (Miranda, not that it would've mattered seeing as she can survive as team leader on her own rights due to plot armor upto that point).



I just can't work out why Morinth can have such an effect?

[Emmo]

Managed to do it eventually.
Ran a Paragon "worst playthrough" where only Sheppard, Tali, Garrus and all of the crew survive.

Result

I used the ME2 SMSC tool I found somewhere on this forum.
Method

I did everyones loyalty mission except Mordin's because I couldn't fail that. To make Miranda un-loyal I sided with Jack when they had the argument and I failed Samara's and Zaeed's.

I went mostly paragon but did do a few renegade choices, like keeping the collector ship up. I'll be using this save, and an everyone survived paragon save for ME3.

[Cyberfrog81]

EXCEPTION 2: If the Second Fire Team Leader is by herself/himself, they will always survive.

After some testing, I'm getting quite certain that this is inaccurate.

Test (1)
Starting team: [lSamara,lTali,mordin,garrus,jacob,lJack,lKasumi,grunt,lMiranda]
- lJack,lTali,garrus dies on the way to the base
- mordin dies as tech expert (just to mention it, picked lMiranda for Leader #1)
(*) - lSamara is the biotic specialist, jacob is Leader #2, grunt is escort
- That leaves no choice for Shepard, who has to go with lMiranda and lKasumi;
  jacob is on his own (even though his mission updates/report might indicate otherwise)!
- lSamara being a good choice, lMiranda and lKasumi survive.
- jacob, despite being by himself, dies.
- Poor lKasumi was left to hold the line, and the only two Shepard can then take to the boss is lMiranda and lSamara.

Test (2)
Same as above, before the (*) at least, then swap lSamara with lMiranda as the biotic bubble person, meaning Shepard has lKasumi and lSamara in his squad.
- jacob is on his own again.
- Reaching the second door, lMiranda gets lSamara killed.
- NOW jacob survives!

One death in each case, only one to hold the line in each case. Two deaths would have meant no-one to hold the line, and I guess that's the real reason why jacob gets to live in (2).

Test (3)
Same as (2), only before going through the relay I gibbed lSamara out of the team. Meaning there are only 8 in total on the team.
- Events occur exactly as in (2), up until Shepard finds the Normandy crew. After assigning a biotic (again I chose lMiranda) and Leader #2 (again I chose jacob), Shepard AUTOMATICALLY agreed with lMiranda that the crew is on their own. Allowing Shepard to assign an escort would have left only 1 to go on Shepard's squad, so the game takes charge again.
- I have to take grunt and lKasumi through the swarm, and with lMiranda as biotic, jacob is once again alone.
- As one would expect, jacob (obviously still not loyal), survives.

I've never actually tried to start the suicide mission with less than 8 on the team, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that it is not possible.

Certainly, what it looks like is that a bad choice Leader #2 that is on his/her own dies IF AND ONLY IF a "good choice biotic" (lJack, lSamara or lMorinth) saves Shepard's swarm squad. But for all I know it might be more complicated than that. Bottom line is that the "always survives" exception, as stated, has to be inaccurate.

[Pacifien]

I've got the WIP guide update here where I take into account some of the anomalies being found. Still trying to make the Hold the Line section work.

ETA: Oh yeah, and I haven't exactly tested the combination of 4 values yet. That's an estimate.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 octobre 2010 - 11:39 .

[Cyberfrog81]

Seems to agree with what I found in-game (I'm using my own little calculator query, but the results given are from 4 [or rather, 3 + loading a quicksave] actual suicide mission playthroughs, starting from a 9-man team and getting 3 of them killed before the HTL part, leaving 4 on the line and 2 to go with Shepard):

score([lMiranda,lKasumi,lMordin,tali], Score).
Score = 1.     --- (Result: DEATH of 2: tali,lMordin)

score([miranda,lSamara,mordin,tali], Score).
Score = 0.75. --- (Result: DEATH of 2: mordin,tali)

score([lMiranda,kasumi,mordin,tali], Score).
Score = 0.5.   --- (Result: DEATH of 2: mordin,tali)

score([miranda,kasumi,mordin,tali], Score).
Score = 0.25. --- (Result: DEATH of 3: mordin,tali,kasumi)


UPDATE:
score([lMiranda,lKasumi,lMordin,lTali], Score).
Score = 1.25. --- (Result: DEATH of 1: lMordin)

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 30 octobre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Meirdin]

I've been trying to do a run through where everyone survives and during the HTL I always lose a squad memeber and i can't figure out why. I've read through this guide and I send Mordin back with the crew as escort, and take tali and Jack with me leaving all other loyal squad members behind. According to the guide and common sense they should be fine. Is this a glitch that I have? any help would be great.

[Pacifien]

Meirdin wrote...
I've been trying to do a run through where everyone survives and during the HTL I always lose a squad memeber and i can't figure out why. I've read through this guide and I send Mordin back with the crew as escort, and take tali and Jack with me leaving all other loyal squad members behind. According to the guide and common sense they should be fine. Is this a glitch that I have? any help would be great.

Could be a glitch. Do you have all twelve squadmates? Which squadmate is dying?

[Cyberfrog81]

Ref my post http://social.biowar...3016/21#5116709,

Version 1.1 is now available.
Download

- Updated rule for leader #2 deaths
- Updated hold-the-line rules to (hopefully) be accurate with regards to 4 line defenders.
- Some changes to the output. Relatively minor stuff, but can offer you more choices. Like here, when you choose who to go through the seeker swarm with:

(...)
       Going with Shepard: [legion,miranda]
                (miranda can be replaced with mordin)
(...)
----------------Another example--------------
(...)
        Going with Shepard: [lJacob,miranda]
                (miranda can be replaced with one of: [lTali,lKasumi])
(...)

The program wants legion and lJacob dead, respectively, and checks with the priority list to see if any others who are available can also accomplish that.

[Ryzaki]

Hm...how do I get that "only ME1 squaddies live" playthrough? I know I shouldn't do anyone's loyalty mission except Garrus and Tali's but is that it? Do I need certain upgrades or should I just make sure they're with me?

Edit: Except for the Seeker swarm area of course.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 novembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Pacifien]

ME1 Characters Only

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...

ME1 Characters Only

Thanks!

Ah. If only this forum had a thumbs up function.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

What's the minumum # of loyal squadies needed to complete the suicide mission without any losses?

One must be a techie (Tali - she needs to be in your party to get her ship upgrade, the others being non-loyal will lower the HtL score), one a biotic for the shield (Jack, will be in your party anyway), one a leader (Jacob/Miranda due to their HtL scores lower than Garrus - and probably Jacob so as to avoid choosing between Jack or Miranda.) 

I've played around with this using the calculator and managed to get it done using this selection.  Assume you have recruited Zaeed for his HtL score, and avoided recruiting Kusumi, Thane, Samara, and Legion (either selling him to Cerberus or keeping him in the AI core):  Tali, Jack, Jacob.  One gets to escort the crew, the other two join me at the proto-reaper.

Holding the line: Zaeed, Grunt, Garrus, Miranda, Mordin.  This gives me a HtL score of exactly 2.  Mordin makes it.

My question is, the calculator says it works but has anyone tried it?

Modifié par HappyHappyJoyJoy, 04 novembre 2010 - 11:23 .

[Pacifien]

You've calculated it perfectly, it will work. I did it once for science.

[Cyberfrog81]

Working on a graphical user interface for my program:


No more typing, easy to use.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 04 novembre 2010 - 09:23 .

[IndelibleJester]

Thanks for this

[Pacifien]

Okay, I've updated the original guide with a modified version with all the updated information concerning the Hold the Line score. But obviously, it's an ongoing project as people find more and more anomalies. If you found errors or have an idea of how the guide can be improved, feel free to say something. Also, I've preserved Ecael's original guide here.