713 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJiveDJ]

Pacifien wrote...

Been awhile since I've done one of these.

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Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Thane
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Loyal: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Jacob, Kasumi, Legion, Mordin, Thane
Nonloyal: Miranda, Samara, Tali, Zaeed

* If you want to save your crew: take the paragon path during Zaeed's mission, but don't reason with him.
     * If you want to lose your crew: avoid Zaeed at all costs until after the suicide mission.
* Side with Jack during the Miranda/Jack confrontation
* Either side with Legion during the Tali/Legion confrontation or turn in the evidence at Tali's trial
* Scare Morinth away during Samara's loyalty mission

* Obtain the weapons upgrade from Garrus

On Approach
* No armor upgrade --> Jack dies
* No shield upgrade + taking Kasumi to the Oculus battle --> Legion dies

Assignments
* Send Jacob through the vents --> Jacob dies
* If you want to save your crew: use Zaeed as escort --> Zaeed dies
     * If you want to lose your crew: send no escort
* Take Garrus with anyone other than Thane through the Seeker Swarms --> Garrus dies
* Use Grunt as your second distraction team leader --> Grunt dies
* Final Boss + Miranda and Samara --> Miranda and Samara die
* Hold the Line + loyal Thane + loyal Kasumi + loyal Mordin + nonloyal Tali --> Mordin and Tali die
     * For the curious, the HtL score is 2 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 4/4 = 1 --> 2 squadmates die

The Rundown
1. Jack died by exploding panel.
2. Legion died by exploding engine core.
3. Jacob volunteers. Dies suicidally.
4a. Zaeed walks back with the crew, everyone but him makes it back alive. Or...
     4b. Take the paragon path on Zaeed's loyalty mission after the suicide mission. Leave him to burn.
5. Garrus swept away by Seeker Swarms.
6. Grunt's shields fail to hold. Probably because he doesn't have any in the first place. Ah, it was a good fight.
7. Miranda dies by fallen debris.
8. Samara dies by fallen debris.
9. Tali dies holding the line.
10. Mordin got job done, but won't be going home.

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Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Thane
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Whoa man thanks a lot!  How did you figure that out so quickly?  Just out of curiosity, would the whole thing change much if, say, I wanted Zaeed alive instead of Kasumi?

[Pacifien]

If you wanted Zaeed instead of Kasumi, I think you'll have no choice but to use an escort to ensure you can use that portion of the mission to kill off a nonloyal squadmate. I think also that you will need to forego both Kasumi's and Mordin's loyalty missions in order to get the Hold the Line score low enough to get 3 squadmates to die during that sequence instead of 2. All around more complicated, so if it doesn't matter to you which one lives, it's easier to kill off Zaeed.

[Fiery Phoenix]

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Whoa man thanks a lot!  How did you figure that out so quickly?  Just out of curiosity, would the whole thing change much if, say, I wanted Zaeed alive instead of Kasumi?

Pacifien has a PhD in Effectology, so yeah...

I do have to say, a playthrough where only Thane and Kasumi survive does sound intriguing. Not to mention those two are favorites of mine.

[Ieldra]

One question about this:

Is it possible to end the game successfully without anyone holding the line? I.e. can you avoid recruiting either Tali, Samara or Thane in a game without any DLC characters?

If you can, for instance, avoid recruiting Samara, things could go like this:

Death list:
Jack - no armor
Thane (take Legion to the Oculus) - no shielding
Garrus - no cannon
Legion (side with him in the conflict, but select an inappropriate fire team leader) - dies in the vents
Mordin - carried off by swarm
Grunt - dies as distraction team leader
Tali - dies as crew escort

Hold the line: no one, with Miranda and Jacob at the final boss...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 janvier 2011 - 10:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

That's an interesting question, Ieldra. Looking forward to hearing Paci's answer.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ieldra2 wrote...

One question about this:

Is it possible to end the game successfully without anyone holding the line? I.e. can you avoid recruiting either Tali, Samara or Thane in a game without any DLC characters?

If you can, for instance, avoid recruiting Samara, things could go like this:

Death list:
Jack - no armor
Thane (take Legion to the Oculus) - no shielding
Garrus - no cannon
Legion (side with him in the conflict, but select an inappropriate fire team leader) - dies in the vents
Mordin - carried off by swarm
Grunt - dies as distraction team leader
Tali - dies as crew escort

Hold the line: no one, with Miranda and Jacob at the final boss...

Can't have 'no one' at the HtL someone has to always be there, basically that is why the 2nd TL will ALWAYS survive if you don't have 3 squadmates already going into the final battle.

Also you need 8 squadmates to get the Collector Ship Mission to trigger so you would need either the DLC or 2 of the 2nd set of Dossiers besides all of the 1st set of dossier recruits. Legion obviously is after the Collector Ship mission and thus doesn't count to the 8. I am not sure if the same rule applies if yuo use the 'early recruitment' trick though. Even if it did, Grunt would survive as distraction leader in your example above. Technically you could get the outcome you want simply by taking an unloyal Grunt to the final battle and leaving either loyal Miranda or Jacob holding the line as they are both adequate to do so on their own having a score of 2.

Like I said though am not sure if using the 'early recruitment' trick allows for the 8 squad ruling to be abolished.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Apologies for the double post, but figured to keep these two subjects seperate. With regards a Thane and Zaeed only survive playthrough this is a roadmap for it, as Paci stated you need to send someone back with the crew as it is the only way to get the HtL to a point where you can kill off all that is required

Loyal Garrus, Zaeed
Non-Loyal Jack, Mordin, Kasumi, Tali, Jacob, Legion, Miranda, Samara, Thane, Zaeed, Grunt
Samara - Can do her Loyalty mission if you want, just make sure to mess up conversation with Morinth if do by picking right side options in conversation. That way Morinth is still around causing trouble
Tali - Can do her loyalty mission if you want, just make sure to pick the bottom right choice during the trial, yes, THAT choice to hand the evidence in and wish the Quarians good luck with the war >
Thane - Can do his loyalty mission if you want but you'll have to mess it up by not reporting Talid's location.

No Armor or Shield upgrades

Ship deaths
Jack (Armor), Legion (Shields - take Kasumi to the oculus)

Suicide Mission deaths
Vents - Garrus (pick anyone as TL doesn't matter, for giggles use Miranda seeing as Garrus complains about her leadership )
Biotic Swarm - Grunt (use Miranda as biotic and take Zaeed along)
Distraction Leader - Samara
Escort - Zaeed
Final Battle - Miranda and Jacob
HtL - Thane, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin = HTL score = 1pt/4=0.25=3 squadmates die, Kasumi, Tali and Mordin
Survivors = Thane and Zaeed

Technically if you want you can swap Zaeed and Jacob around in their roles, as Jacob will die as unloyal escort and Zaeed being loyal will survive final battle.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 07 janvier 2011 - 01:25 .

[Pacifien]

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Final Squadmates: Thane and Zaeed
----------

Loyal: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Jacob, Legion, Zaeed
Nonloyal: Kasumi, Miranda, Mordin, Samara, Tali, Thane

* You cannot do Kasumi's or Mordin's loyalty missions
* You cannot do Thane's loyalty mission before the suicide mission (but you can afterwards)
* Side with Jack during the Miranda/Jack confrontation
* Either side with Legion during the Tali/Legion confrontation or turn in the evidence at Tali's trial
* Scare Morinth away during Samara's loyalty mission

* Obtain the weapons upgrade from Garrus

On Approach
* No armor upgrade --> Jack dies
* No shield upgrade + taking Kasumi to the Oculus battle --> Legion dies

Assignments
* Send Jacob through the vents --> Jacob dies
* Send Zaeed as escort --> Zaeed lives
     * Alternate: Send Samara as escort --> Samara dies
* Take Garrus with anyone other than Thane through the Seeker Swarms --> Garrus dies
* Use Grunt as your second distraction team leader --> Grunt dies
* Final Boss + Samara and Miranda --> Samara and Miranda die
     * Alternate: Final Boss + Zaeed and Miranda --> Miranda dies
* Hold the Line + nonloyal Thane + nonloyal Kasumi + nonloyal Mordin + nonloyal Tali --> Mordin and Tali die
     * For the curious, the HtL score is 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 1/4 = 0.25 --> 3 squadmates die

The Rundown
1. Jack died by exploding panel.
2. Legion died by exploding engine core.
3. Jacob volunteers. Dies suicidally.
4a. Samara dies escorting the crew or...
     4b. Samara dies by fallen debris
5. Garrus swept away by Seeker Swarms.
6. Grunt's shields fail to hold. Probably because he doesn't have any in the first place. Ah, it was a good fight.
7. Miranda dies by fallen debris.
8. Kasumi dies holding the line.
9. Tali dies holding the line.
10. Mordin got job done, but won't be going home.

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Final Squadmates: Thane and Zaeed
----------

[Pacifien]

P.S. And Sir Ulrich is right, you need a minimum of 8 squadmates to even start the suicide mission. And as the guide points out, if the combination of seeker swarm death + fireteam leader death is going to leave you with less than 3 squadmates, the fireteam leader automatically survives. Even unloyal. Even if they're the wrong man for the job.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I need help, I can't figure out a way to let all 12 characters + the crew die. Yes I want all 12 characters.

The best I can come up with is everyone dying except for Joker and Dr. Chakwas.

Ironically, I was just trying to do this myself and came up with the following. I have not tested it as of yet though.

- No Heavy Ship Armor upgrade. (Jack dies)
- No Multicore Shielding upgrade. Take Thane and Kasumi to fight the Oculus. (Legion dies)
- No Thanix Cannon upgrade. (Garrus dies)
- Choose Thane or Jacob as the Tech Specialist. (Thane/Jacob dies)
- Choose a disloyal Jack as the Biotic bubble babe. Bring Miranda and Grunt. (Grunt dies)
- Choose Zaeed as the second fire team leader. (Zaeed dies)
- No escort. (Crew and Dr. Chakwas dies)
- Bring Miranda and Samara to fight Baby Reaperminator. (Miranda and Samara die)
- Holding the Line is defended by Thane/Jacob, Tali, Kasumi and Mordin. (They all die since only one would technically survive and we require two squad mates.)
- Shepard dies.

The one thing I am not certain about is Garrus. If I recall having Thane in your party should prevent him from being killed and thereby killing Garrus. If this was not already apparent. You cannot have the loyalty of pretty much anyone to assure they all die.

Having recently gone through the SM and killing off the squad. I have determined the aforementioned is mistaken. Garrus will only replace Thane in death if Thane is not recruited. I had originally thought it was based upon loyalty. Therefore a rewrite is necessary...

- No Heavy Ship Armor upgrade. (Jack dies)
- No Multicore Shielding upgrade. Take Kasumi and anyone with the exception of Legion to fight the Oculus. (Legion dies)
- No Thanix Cannon upgrade. (Thane dies)
- Choose Jacob as the Tech Specialist. (Jacob dies)
- Choose a disloyal Jack as the Biotic bubble babe. Bring Miranda and Grunt. (Grunt dies)
- Choose Zaeed as the second fire team leader. (Zaeed dies)
- No escort. (Crew and Dr. Chakwas dies)
- Bring Miranda and Garrus to fight Baby Reaperminator. (Miranda and Garrus die)
- Holding the Line is defended by Samara, Tali, Kasumi and Mordin. (They all die since only one would technically survive and we require
two squad mates.)
- Shepard dies.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 08 janvier 2011 - 06:32 .

[Pacifien]

All loyalty missions done, Shepard still dies.

[johny Royal]

I noticed something, in my first play through, I had only one member survive the final boss fight (Garrus) my other died (miranda) and i still survived in the end 0.0

[Da_Lion_Man]

You only die if you have less than 2 squad members after the whole mission. The squad members holding the line also count.

[Ieldra]

Pacifien wrote...
P.S. And Sir Ulrich is right, you need a minimum of 8 squadmates to even start the suicide mission. And as the guide points out, if the combination of seeker swarm death + fireteam leader death is going to leave you with less than 3 squadmates, the fireteam leader automatically survives. Even unloyal. Even if they're the wrong man for the job.

OK, I get that the distraction team leader will survive if you only have three team members left.

But as for the 8 you need: With Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Garrus and Mordin you have 6, which means you can leave Samara, Tali or Thane, possibly two of them if Legion counts for the 8. My scenario has 9 and it still needs the exception rule for the distraction team leader to have one to hold the line. What will happen if you start the mission with 8? Will you have no option to send an escort with the crew? Has anyone tried?

[Da_Lion_Man]

I don't think you will always be able to send an escort in that situation. If 3 squad members and the tech expert die, you only have 4 left, 1 is needed for the Biotic barrier, 2 function as squad members, another one is needed for the leadership role. So unless you lost the tech expert and 3 squad members while going through the Omega 4 relay which is pretty much the worst case scenario, you'll be able to send an escort.

[Dreamion]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Dreamion wrote...

Evaluate mine.


No Zaeed, Grunt still stuck in the bottle. The loyals are Tali, Kasumi, Legion, Mordin

No armor: Jack dies
No shields: Legion, and Kasumi for the Occulus fight, this should kill Tali.
No Thanix cannon: Thane is dead.

Tech Specialist = Miranda, she's gone, fireteam leader doesn't matter, probably Jacob.
Swarm = Samara and Jacob, she'll fail and either she or he will die.
2nd fireteam lead = Garrus, I don't think he'll die but I hope he does.
Escort = Samara or Jacob, whoever survived, they'll die here.
Hold the Line team = Garrus + Mordin (Hoping Mordin survives, but meh)
Boss team = Legion + Kasumi.

So did I miss something? Did I plan it correctly?
My hope is for me, Kasumi, and Legion to survive while the rest dies. Mordin and Tali would have been nice but I had to make sacrifices
Btw, if I throw in Zaeed in the Hold the Line, will he die? Cause that would be a pretty sweet bonus..

Despite Da_Lion_Man's good attempt, it's still a bit messed up.
The Escort is chosen before you pick your team that you'll take through the swarm, so can't be a case of Samara/Jacob surviving swarm then getting killed as Escort

Mordin if he is loyal as you indicated at the top has greater chance than any of your non loyals (even your heavys like Zaeed and Garrus)

You basically want Kasumi and Legion to survive but would if possible like to see Mordin live, so here is a more refined and accurate runthrough of the mission.

Armor - Jack
Shields - Tali - Taking Legion and Kasumi to fight the Occulus to ensure Tali death and their survival
Cannon - Thane
Vents - Jacob - 2nd TL unimportant as he'll die anyway
Biotic - Miranda (Having her as 2nd TL is silly because your looking to kill people off)
Swarm death - Garrus - Take Kasumi with you as well, Garrus will get swarmed (crazy as it sounds, but I have faith that Ecael's list on the first page is correct as far as Swarmability is concerned)
2nd TL - Zaeed ("Shepard, I just got waxed godamn nostalgically, got a minute, you might learn something! DON'T use me as Team Leader I suck at it!" )
Escort - Samara
HtL - Miranda dead with Legion surviving
Final Battle - Kasumi and Mordin - Both survive
Final Squad - Kasumi, Legion and Mordin

If you want Mordin dead, put him as 2nd TL and don't recruit Zaeed. You can actually still 'kill' Zaeed off post-suicide in this instance because if you take the paragon (save workers) route on his loyalty mission, there is an option to leave him there if you do it post-suicide mission. Like I said though, in this instance if wanting Mordin dead best not recruit Zaeed or he'll pump the HtL score up allowing for all HtL people to stay alive (he has 3pts non-loyal, thus he ensures Miranda would live with her 1pt).

Hope I explained everything good enough for you. This should definitly work how you want it to.

Almost worked out.

Starting off, everything went as planned. Jack got lazord, Tali blew up, and Thane got squished like a frog.
Jacob died in the vents, Garrus got swarmed, and I sent Samara as 2nd TL.
Samara died.
Sent Mordin back with the kids, end battle I had Legion and Kasumi with me, and Zaeed and Miranda holding.
Both of them survived, unfortunately.

I'm going to replay it, without recruiting Zaeed, that would leave Miranda holding the line by herself, which hopefully kills her.

Modifié par Dreamion, 10 janvier 2011 - 05:29 .

[Cyberfrog81]

Ieldra2 wrote...
But as for the 8 you need: With Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Garrus and Mordin you have 6, which means you can leave Samara, Tali or Thane, possibly two of them if Legion counts for the 8. My scenario has 9 and it still needs the exception rule for the distraction team leader to have one to hold the line. What will happen if you start the mission with 8? Will you have no option to send an escort with the crew? Has anyone tried?

Miranda will say that the team can't spare anyone. Instead of the player being given the choice, Shepard will automatically agree with her.

[AvalonTLW]

It was very confusing.... -.-

[Da_Lion_Man]

I agree the movie was very confusing. It would have been better if there were more flashbacks.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

@Dreamion I did state that having Miranda and Zaeed HtL would ensure they both survived

If Legion is loyal and you follow what I listed, it will work that way. Mordin and Kasumi surviving final battle, whomever you send as escort dies but the crew lives and the 2nd TL dying due to being poor choice and with you having the required minimum of 3 (well you got 4 so your ok) in the final stage. But yeah doing it the way you mentioned you are going to try should work too as long as Miranda isn't loyal. Then if your feeling sadistic after the SM you can go get Zaeed, do his mission, take paragon route but leave him to die at the end



@Ieldra, as Cyberfrog said, in that instance Shep will just agree with Miranda because you haven't got anyone available to send back. The 8 is pretty much there to ensure Shep makes it to the final battle with 3 squadmates alive (although can technically require plot armor for 2nd TL)

[Dreamion]

Yeah, but I was going for mordin surviving.
I did it without recruiting Zaeed this time. Sent Mordin back with the kids which ended with only Miranda holding the line, so she got wasted.

Afterwards I had Mordin, Legion, and Kasumi alive and the rest gone. Except for the krogan, but he's still in the pod. And then I recruited Zaeed and left him on the planet to blow up. So everything is good.

Modifié par Dreamion, 11 janvier 2011 - 05:22 .

[The-Mimic]

Hello everyone. After reading the first message, I'm wondering if this could work. I'm not an expert, I haven't finished ME2 yet (I'm just past Horizon), but I think I got the maths done properly. Can you correct me if I'm wrong somewhere ?

My objective is to finish the game with only Zaeed and Jacob as casualties.


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Final Squadmates: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Kasumi, Legion, Miranda, Mordin, Samara, Tali and Thane.
----------

Loyal: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Kasumi, Legion, Miranda, Mordin, Samara, Tali, Thane.
Nonloyal: Jacob
Other : Zaeed died during loyalty mission.
Normandy : Fully upgraded

On Approach
+ Armor upgrade
+ Shield upgrade
+ Cannon upgrade
= Everybody lives

Assignments
* Send Tali/Legion/Kasumi through the vents --> They live
* First Fire Team leader --> Miranda or Garrus
* Send Mordin as escort --> Crew and Mordin survive
* Use Samara or Jack as Biotic Shield --> Your team lives
* Use Miranda or Garrus as your second distraction team leader --> They live
* Final Boss + Jacob and Tali --> Jacob dies
* Hold the Line + [Loyal]Kasumi + [Loyal]Jack + [Loyal]Miranda + [Loyal]Samara + [Loyal]Legion + [Loyal]Thane + [Loyal]Garrus + [Loyal]Grunt --> Everybody lives
* For the curious, the HtL score is 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 4 = 18/8 = 2.25 --> no death

The Rundown
1. Zaeed died in a fire before the suicide mission.
2. Jacob dies by fallen debris.

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Final Squadmates: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Kasumi, Legion, Miranda, Mordin, Samara, Tali and Thane.
----------

Modifié par The-Mimic, 12 janvier 2011 - 02:42 .

[Cyberfrog81]

Yes, good plan. BUT:



You can only kill Zaeed on his loyalty mission if you do it after the suicide mission.

[The-Mimic]

Oh, ok. I wasn't aware of that at all. Well, even with an un-loyal Zaeed for the Hold the Line segment it's 21/9 = 2.3333 so everybody lives as well.



I think I could also take Zaeed and Jacob to fight the final boss and leave Tali to hold the line with the others it would be 19/9 = 2.1111 again everybody would live.



But I think killing Zaeed during his loyalty mission is more fitting for him than simply having him be killed by falling debris.

[Pacifien]

Have Zaeed be the second distraction team leader, he'll go out fighting. Let Jacob be the guy through the vents since he volunteered, then you can still do his loyalty mission if you want. So long as Garrus and Grunt are left to Hold the Line, you won't have any issues with anyone else dying.

Modifié par Pacifien, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .