713 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

C9316 wrote...

Why are there so many of these suicide mission guides? I mean keeping yourself and your teammates alive during the suicide mission is relatively easy, common sense really. You wouldn't send Grunt into the vent right? Does he seem like a tech expert? Then there's also the loyalty missions which in my opinion gives me experience and ensures a squadmate's loyalty so its a win-win situation and time well spent.

Because not everyone is interested in (only) "happily ever after" scenarios.

[C9316]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Why are there so many of these suicide mission guides? I mean keeping yourself and your teammates alive during the suicide mission is relatively easy, common sense really. You wouldn't send Grunt into the vent right? Does he seem like a tech expert? Then there's also the loyalty missions which in my opinion gives me experience and ensures a squadmate's loyalty so its a win-win situation and time well spent.

Because not everyone is interested in (only) "happily ever after" scenarios.

So the guides are only for those who intentionally want to kill off teammates? Gotcha, that explains so much.

[Zulu_DFA]

C9316 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Why are there so many of these suicide mission guides? I mean keeping yourself and your teammates alive during the suicide mission is relatively easy, common sense really. You wouldn't send Grunt into the vent right? Does he seem like a tech expert? Then there's also the loyalty missions which in my opinion gives me experience and ensures a squadmate's loyalty so its a win-win situation and time well spent.

Because not everyone is interested in (only) "happily ever after" scenarios.

So the guides are only for those who intentionally want to kill off teammates? Gotcha, that explains so much.

Since BioWare failed to make a "real" suicide mission, it's quite understandable.

[Wrexdot]

Nonloyal Miranda, Tali and Mordin = Miranda survives, just tested it few minutes ago.

[Pacifien]

Wrexdot wrote...
Nonloyal Miranda, Tali and Mordin = Miranda survives, just tested it few minutes ago.

I'm thinking the score has another kink in it.

Three squadmates, one from Tier 2 and the other two from Tier 3, all unloyal with a HtL score of 0.33. The guide says all three should die.

If you had four squadmates, one from Tier 2 and the other three from Tier 3, all unloyal with a HtL score of 0.25. It's possible you'll get three squadmates to die then, but I'll have to test it.

I did try Legion+Samara+Miranda (all unloyal) as Zulu_DFA had mentioned a few days ago. The HtL score was 1.0, but only Miranda died when it should have been Miranda and Samara.

Only three squadmates on the defense seems to throw the HtL average for a loop. Needs more testing.

[Pacifien]

For science! - Even more details about how you can manipulate squadmate's roles during the final mission.
More science! - didymos1120 works out the priority list for when various squadmates speak.

In spite of all my best efforts to take my incomplete data and infer some conclusions about the following, other posters point out where those inferences fail for them. So I'm going to consider everything simply a pattern of what usually happens and not some hardwired code. Developer Dusty Everman had already told me they didn't code the sequence for a particular order, but said patterns might develop regardless.

The first four sections are on a priority list. So long as the first person on the list is present, the situation defaults to them. If the person isn't present, it goes to the next person on the list.

Status Report on the Defense
Thane -> Jack -> Garrus -> Legion -> Grunt -> Jacob -> Samara -> Mordin -> Tali -> Kasumi -> Zaeed -> Miranda

Advocates Keeping the Base ("This place is an abomination.")
Miranda* -> Grunt -> Zaeed -> Mordin -> Legion -> Garrus

Advocates Destroying the Base ("You think it can help?")
Thane -> Samara -> Tali -> Jacob -> Kasumi -> Jack

Pulls Shepard onto the Normandy
Note: Squadmates need to be in Shepard's squad for the final battle. If one dies, the other pulls Shepard up. If both die, a survivor from the defense will pull Shepard up.
Miranda -> Zaeed -> Kasumi -> Tali -> Jacob -> Mordin -> Samara -> Grunt -> Legion -> Garrus -> Jack -> Thane

Shepard Catches a Squadmate Falling Down the Platform
- Shepard will catch the squadmate whose icon is on the RIGHT.
- If your final battle required a reload, the icons can sometimes switch places. Shepard will catch the squadmate whose icon is currently on the RIGHT

Other Stuff
- The squadmate whose icon is on the LEFT will be the one who uses the omnitool for the Illusive Man's communication except for when Miranda is present.
      - Regardless of her icon position, Miranda will always be the one using the omnitool.
- The squadmate whose icon is on the RIGHT will be the one who hands Shepard the device that either blows up/clears out the base.

* In spite of being grouped with the other advocates for keeping the base, Miranda actually doesn't advocate keeping the base.

Modifié par Pacifien, 09 février 2011 - 05:57 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

That's informative. Thanks, Pacifien.

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

Wrexdot wrote...
Nonloyal Miranda, Tali and Mordin = Miranda survives, just tested it few minutes ago.

I'm thinking the score has another kink in it.

Three squadmates, one from Tier 2 and the other two from Tier 3, all unloyal with a HtL score of 0.33. The guide says all three should die.

If you had four squadmates, one from Tier 2 and the other three from Tier 3, all unloyal with a HtL score of 0.25. It's possible you'll get three squadmates to die then, but I'll have to test it.

I did try Legion+Samara+Miranda (all unloyal) as Zulu_DFA had mentioned a few days ago. The HtL score was 1.0, but only Miranda died when it should have been Miranda and Samara.

Only three squadmates on the defense seems to throw the HtL average for a loop. Needs more testing.

Or maybe it's Miranda throwing it off.

She's been known to do that before.

[Collider]

My suggestion would be to edit this portion:

Get the average point value by adding up the points of each squadmate and then dividing by the number of squadmates.

To clarify that it's the points of each squad mate holding the line divided by the number of squad mates holding the line.

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
Or maybe it's Miranda throwing it off.

She's been known to do that before.

True. But I just tested it with Jacob+Samara+Legion and only Jacob died.

[Pacifien]

End boss squad: Loyal Garrus + Unloyal Zaeed -> Garrus survives
Legion + Miranda + Samara = 3/3 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Miranda died
Jacob + Legion + Samara = 3/3 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Jacob died
Jacob + Legion + Miranda + Samara = 4/4 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Miranda and Jacob died

Zulu_DFA said with both squadmates surviving the end boss fight, the results on the HtL defenders was still the same for Legion + Miranda + Samara.

I was going to try Jack + Miranda (or some other Tier 2 defender so I don't have to worry about "Miranda did it!" on the results) + Mordin + Tali = 1/4 = 0.25 HtL score to see if I get two or three squadmates dying. But later.

Modifié par Pacifien, 04 juillet 2010 - 02:00 .

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

End boss squad: Loyal Garrus + Unloyal Zaeed -> Garrus survives
Legion + Miranda + Samara = 3/3 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Miranda died
Jacob + Legion + Samara = 3/3 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Jacob died
Jacob + Legion + Miranda + Samara = 4/4 = 1.0 HtL score | Result: Miranda and Jacob died

Zulu_DFA said with both squadmates surviving the end boss fight, the results on the HtL defenders was still the same for Legion + Miranda + Samara.

I was going to try Jack + Miranda (or some other Tier 2 defender so I don't have to worry about "Miranda did it!" on the results) + Mordin + Tali = 1/4 = 0.25 HtL score to see if I get two or three squadmates dying. But later.

The lack of "F Tier" squadmates is modifying the required score, perhaps?

Hmmm...

[Pacifien]

I thought of another scenario to test.

Loyals Jack, Mordin, Tali will get you a 1.0 score as well. So will only one die?

[Collider]

One thing I'd love to have for another guide would one that displays the paragon and renegade requirements for each charm and intimidate. I know Ieldra has a guide, but having some way to calculate the the prerequisites would be great. The percentages needed may be in the files. I don't know.

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

I thought of another scenario to test.

Loyals Jack, Mordin, Tali will get you a 1.0 score as well. So will only one die?

Just tested it.

Yes.

[Pacifien]

What if you only had two holding the line with a HtL of 1.0?

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
One thing I'd love to have for another guide would one that displays the paragon and renegade requirements for each charm and intimidate. I know Ieldra has a guide, but having some way to calculate the the prerequisites would be great. The percentages needed may be in the files. I don't know.

I'd think if there was a percentage in the files, someone would have found it by now. There's the hard way, which is to actually keep track of your points gained versus points possible up until the point of the confrontation. Now there's no way in hell I'm ever doing that science experiment. It's enough for me to know that the ME1 import bonus has always ensured I pass the check one way or the other.

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
One thing I'd love to have for another guide would one that displays the paragon and renegade requirements for each charm and intimidate. I know Ieldra has a guide, but having some way to calculate the the prerequisites would be great. The percentages needed may be in the files. I don't know.

I'd think if there was a percentage in the files, someone would have found it by now.

Maybe. But this particular topic we're in was only created several months after ME2 was released. I doubt that we've discovered and understood all of the data on the disc, considering this.

There's the hard way, which is to actually keep track of your points gained versus points possible up until the point of the confrontation. Now there's no way in hell I'm ever doing that science experiment. It's enough for me to know that the ME1 import bonus has always ensured I pass the check one way or the other.

It's not always hard to guesstimate whether or not you will have enough points. If you plan everything out. The surefire way to make sure a persuasion option is availbe is to do them as early as possible, for example. Anyway, it's a suggestion - I was thinking that someone like Ecael (or you) may be able to find something in the files or otherwise decipher the mechancis. May not be possible though, from the sound of it.

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

What if you only had two holding the line with a HtL of 1.0?

Only one dead. (Loyal Jack and loyal Tali, Tali died)

[Pacifien]

So the formula works with four or more squadmates, but doesn't when it's two or three.



Seriously, how is "No One Left Behind" an achievement while "Everyone Left Behind" is not?

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

So the formula works with four or more squadmates, but doesn't when it's two or three.

Seriously, how is "No One Left Behind" an achievement while "Everyone Left Behind" is not?

Are we sure that having no F Tier squadmates at the line is the explanation?

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
Are we sure that having no F Tier squadmates at the line is the explanation?

But then shouldn't have two squadmates died when you did the three F Tier squadmate test?

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Are we sure that having no F Tier squadmates at the line is the explanation?

But then shouldn't have two squadmates died when you did the three F Tier squadmate test?

Three of the weakest unloyals will all die together. Four of the weakest unloyals will die together as well.

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
Three of the weakest unloyals will all die together. Four of the weakest unloyals will die together as well.

I had assumed that was because it was pretty hard to argue with a HtL average score of 0. I was going to test Jacob + Samara + Tali with their score of 0.67. Should get two squadmate deaths then, but if I did, is it because of the Tier F squadmate or because the score is 0.67?

[Sursion]

Just got a score of 1.1 and 3 squadmates died



Loyal Tali, Loyal Mordin, Zaeed, Samara, Thane, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi



Kasumi, Jack, Miranda died. Loyal Garrus and Loyal Legion came to the boss with me.