65 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

As a fan of No Reload play, I agree that Swoo has some excellent points here.

Swoo wrote...

 Your build, party, tactics, micro-management, and surroundings are huge. Factor in AI stupidity as well, a few fights I've basically had to rope-a-dope the elite mob by just sending him running in circles around pillar's or pew's while my other party members wipe him out.

If you find yourself fighting in a nasty chokepoint, look around, see where you can fight on more favorable ground. Denerim is a perfect example with the ambush spots with three lines of archers; You can easily hide behind one of the gate walls, send a character out to take potshots at the archers, and watch them leave their protection to try to get a bead on you.

Absolutely. Once you become adept at using tactical positioning and obstacles, battles become much easier. Naturally, there is synergy between emphasizing range fighting and use of obstructions.

Things as simple as using defilade when ranged and prefering corners to central positions when forced to fight large groups of melee foes in close quarters can make a huge difference. There are many, many battle specific tactical positioning strategies.

Don't be afraid to run and line of sight enemies, and with mass pulls you can usually either nibble off a mob or three before engaging the entire group, or you can use crowd control to lower the incoming damage output until you whittle them down to a managable force.

Agreed. If you are going to get through with out death, the odds always have to be tilted in your party's favor. Dividing enemies in space and time can keep the balance of power on your side. Nimbling, using Replusion Glyphs at Choke Points and, again, corners are key here (especially when solo).

Lastly, magic healing makes a huuuuuge difference. Having a Mage with a decent investment in the Creation lines makes all the difference between a smashed tank and an effective tank. Lifeward can be a Godsend for those 3 Elite Drake Fights or 20 archers opening up at once. Being able to drop a Heal-Group Heal-Potion-Rejuv-Potion combo can keep a tank going when half a score of people beating on him.

Agreed. The Creation School can become extremely important in Dead-is Dead and No Reload play. Line 1 is great but, for my playing style, it's the Glyphs that do the heavy lifting. The Haste line helps too.

I've found that the easiest way to get through without reloading is to use a Glyph based defensive strategy with a group that has a comparative advantage in dealing damage from a distance: 3 Mages + Leliana or 2 Archers and 2 Mages. Melee may be fun and powerful, but it is often dangerous. Further, this approach foils the ever present central melee fighter-flanking archer gambit employed by enemy groups and many of the games most difficult fights become trivial if you simply plink away from a distance.

The basic battle plan I favor consists of establishing a Glyph of Repulsion + Glyph of Warding protected area at a choke point with Earthquake, Blizzard, and AoE damage spells placed in the enemy occupied zone.Those who survive the range damage and resist the Repulsion Glyph can get Cone of Cold-> Stonefist or Critical Shot, or Stone Fist/Shattering Shot to push them back into the Blizzard + Earthquake. They'll move slowly back to the Repulsion Glyph and they'll have to save against it again. Melee foes can typically be killed before they can threaten you and Glyph of Warding + Heroic Aura can negate Range Weapons.  Major incursions into the party occupied area can be dealt with using Entropy School CC -> Regroup. Run -> Glyph of Repulsion at a choke point -> Paralysis Explosion. Is a good way to regroup. Bombs can be helpful when you need to cull fodder in the regroup phase.

In this approach, neutralizing mages via Mana Clash, Glyph of Neutralization + Arrow of Slaying, Etc is naturally priority one in any encouter with magic wielding enemies. Because once you have a clear comparative advantage from a distance, you win.

It's worth noting that Ranger pets can be helpful with this battle plan as well.

Of course, this is just one approach. There are other ways to navigate the adventure without death. Good luck finding them!


Best,

A.


A few more tips...

1) Pause. A lot.

2) Sidequests tend to be more dangerous than main plot quests. Don't get in over your head.

3) Single use items are extremely helpful if you are playing No Reload style. All those Salves and Incenses that often rot in the backpack can really tilt things to your advantage. You should never run out.

4) It goes without saying that you should never run out of potions- assuming you aren't restricing their use.

5) I always keep a full complement of bombs of every flavor in case I need to unload a lot of hurt fast. I use traps when possible.

6) Dispelling Abilities save lives.

7) A character with Combat Stealth + Arrow of Slaying + Bombs + Traps + Summons almost always has an effective plan B at their disposal. The Ranger/Duelist Rogue Archer is a formidible character in No Reload play.


Note Well: Even with good tactics, No Reload  attempts often end in death- especially on higher difficulty levels. I know I've lost a lot of No Reload candidates and I'm probably not alone there. People tend to talk about the successes naturally. It's definitely a feasible playing style though.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 23 juin 2010 - 06:04 .

[WRFan]

this game is indeed very difficult, because there are not enough buffs, as compared to NWN2, for example. I used to put so many buffs on my wizardress, no enemy was ever able to hit her, plus insane resistances and immunities to pretty much everything, I always drag along a second mage, just to buff my own wizardress. Same in DAO, but here buffs are few and only a short duration. So the solution is INCAPACITATION. Yes, disable the enemies and they won't be able to hit you. Simple as that. Take the high dragon, for example. One Petrify spell at an insane spellpower DC (100% success chance), two paralysis explosions, 3 entropic deaths in a row (amplified by hexes and mark of death) and the dragon was dead without ever getting a chance to hit me. Nightmare difficulty. "Too easy!" as my wizardress says after every fight.

Modifié par WRFan, 23 juin 2010 - 01:22 .

[OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor]

Would people say its harder to survive on the XBOX/PS3 than over the PC?

[Alesia_BH]

WRFan wrote...

this game is indeed very difficult, because there are not enough buffs, as compared to NWN2, for example. I used to put so many buffs on my wizardress, no enemy was ever able to hit her, plus insane resistances and immunities to pretty much everything, I always drag along a second mage, just to buff my own wizardress. Same in DAO, but here buffs are few and only a short duration.

I think you have a fine point here. And I think that's one thing that's often lost in the discussions of difficulty in the Dragon Age world. There are very powerful defensive regimes available to some classes, but nothing quite comprable to what you find in the DnD based games. So far, I've found that it's comparatively easy to "get through" the Dragon Age adventure, but relatively difficult to truly survive- especially on higher difficulty settings.

Of course, by comparison, Dragon Age is still a new world to me but I suspect that I'll feel the same way even after I understand it more thoroughly.

So the solution is INCAPACITATION.

Agreed. The most powerful defensive strategies are more proactive in the Dragon Age world. Defense is less about pre-buffing and more about neutralizing potential threats. I was a buff fanatic in DnD, but it isn't an unwelcome change.


Best,

A.


As an aside for the Baldur's Gate players, I personally find that playing defense in Dragon Age is a bit like playing BG without the Abjuration school. If you solo a Transmuter for example, you survive by Power Wording True Sight casters and taking other proactive steps to neutralize threats rather than relying on your buffs. Of course, as an Arcane Warrior, Dragon Age can feel more like DnD F/M tanking, but I don't see the same level of impregnability there.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 23 juin 2010 - 01:46 .

[Alesia_BH]

OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor wrote...

Would people say its harder to survive on the XBOX/PS3 than over the PC?

I haven't played both versions so I can't fully comment. That said, from what I've seen, the console interfaces seem to nudge you into a low micromanagement playing style and that could have a really big impact on experienced difficulty.

Again, I can't comment in full measure though.


Best,

A.

FYI- I'm a PC player.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 23 juin 2010 - 02:31 .

[mildmort]

I always wonder why all the people so well know about this game.

But either way knowing other culture's reactions is interesting as I'm anonymous nothing to lose.

I think I have to read many long posts here...

[rickcr]

danien.grey wrote...

I got through my first play through without anyone dying until the final battle. I played a Rogue, with Alistair, Wynne, and Morrigan in my party. I have done a solo nightmare run on a rogue, but it took a really long time...and LOTS of traps, haha.

Did you use some of the game guides? If not, then I find this really hard to believe on a FIRST pass. (Heck I was pissed when I found out there were two cheap bags to get early on that I missed... having the bag space early makes a difference in coin to buy things.) I guess it's possible you just happened to avoid certain areas early. As a rogue I entered the Fade at  (level 10)  and went to the Mage Asunder first thing (no forms) and got my butt kicked. Once I went to some other areas and got the right shapeshifter forms things were much easier.

[Swoo]

OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor wrote...

Would people say its harder to survive on the XBOX/PS3 than over the PC?

No. The console difficulty is actually much easier than PC; Nightmare mode on XBOX/PS3 is actually slightly less than Hard mode on PC.

The only way I'd say XBOX and the like was 'harder' was when you are dealing with PC games that have been very modded out completely wrecking game balance, like introducing full Tier 7 gear at Ostagar and the like.

[aries1001]

I, too, have played BG1 and BG2. And I find the combat in this game very hard, even on 'easy'. I don't remember that combat in BG1 was this hard, even after 8-10 hours, but perhaps I remember falsely?

And I have had plenty of my toons (characters) die playing on 'easy'. At least in BG1, in the early levels, you'd have Jaheira with the spell 'entangle' which really helped a lot. Not so here, I find. On the other hand, you'll have Morrigan with the spells 'horror' and 'winter's grasp' ans such spells.



I, too, find the game tries to overwhelm you with massive hordes of Darkspawn which is sort of natural, I think, since the game is about dealing with the Darkspawn. However, it is always the same genlock, hurlocks and maybe an Alpha Hurlock or some such thing. In BG1, you'd have vampiric wolwes, Xivilais, kobolds and those pesky little blue monsters as well as orcs? at fist in the game. More variety seemed to be in BG1 (and in BG2). I concur, however, that it can be difficult to make darkspawn monsters more varied...

[Arttis]

Swoo wrote...

OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor wrote...

Would people say its harder to survive on the XBOX/PS3 than over the PC?

No. The console difficulty is actually much easier than PC; Nightmare mode on XBOX/PS3 is actually slightly less than Hard mode on PC.

The only way I'd say XBOX and the like was 'harder' was when you are dealing with PC games that have been very modded out completely wrecking game balance, like introducing full Tier 7 gear at Ostagar and the like.

Console difficulty is much harder when doing a NM solo...why? because our enemies are stronger and hit more making it very difficult to reach unhittable.
I have been doing a NM solo run with a mage and with 111 defense at level 7 in lothering white named refugees were hitting me!Screwed up.Most were missing but darn a few did.I have yet to see anyone make a character with more defense than that without using cheats and so forth at the start of lothering.I could be wrong.:devil:We have whites with elite hit rates and power without the resistance.And we can not tell them apart till we attack and see if the health goes down fast.
I have yet to really play on PC but i may in a few months to get my hands on the tool set.

[Melichai]

OP, what you have to remember when people say "I never had anyone die on standard" is that people say an awful lot of stuff.

[nitenman]

just keep an eye on your gear, upgrading it as often as possible, and you shouldnt die... make sure you also have weapons able to deal damage relevant to your level... I've actually learned it the hard after 3 hours on my first playtrough... what actually make the console version hard is the quasi absence of tactical view

[TheMadCat]

Melichai wrote...

OP, what you have to remember when people say "I never had anyone die on standard" is that people say an awful lot of stuff.

You know, if you don't believe someone all you have to do is check their profile and see if they have that achievement or not and then feel free to call BS when warranted. But there are people who have beaten it without dying, myself included. Some find the game difficult, some find the game incredibly easy and thats no different from any other game. I don't understand why people are trying to prove it's one or the other.

[Melichai]

Its not that I dont believe - someone has probably completed Super Mario in 10 minutes. Its just I dont care.

[bluesparrow94]

I always use the Hit and run tactic. Just tell your party to hold position and the you go shoot one or two of the enemies and retreat to your party. The enemies which you shooted will run after you and the rest of the enemies usually stay. This way, you can deal with a large group of enemies easily. One by one. The harder the game, the more awesome it will be

[Swoo]

Arttis wrote...

Console difficulty is much harder when doing a NM solo...why? because our enemies are stronger and hit more making it very difficult to reach unhittable.

No, that's incorrect unless it's the byproduct of a bug which is entirely possible. I'll try to dig up the thread, but the console difficulty was scaled down versus the PC.

[TheMadCat]

Melichai wrote...

Its not that I dont believe - someone has probably completed Super Mario in 10 minutes. Its just I dont care.

Ah, your post made it sound like you simply didn't believe it was possible. Sorry bout that.

[soteria]

AlanC9 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't forget that some people are simply lying about how easy the game is.

And some sincerly felt the game was very easy and managed to make it through with minimal troubles. What's your point here?

Just that we've seen an epidemic of trash-talk lately. It seems to be a console thing. The ME boards are far worse

DA isn't difficult- - RPGs generally aren't. And I think the design is flawed since high-dex characters become unhittable in the late game and are very tough earlier. But I don't think that getting through the whole game without having your PC drop once is common.

I wish Bio would release their stats, though. I'd love to know how many players actually unlocked the no-death achievements.

Maybe it's just my pride talking, but I have to agree that I think recently it's become the "flavor of the month" to exaggerate how easy the game is.  I"ve probably contributed to that attitude myself, but when I read posts about people playing the game on nightmare their first time through and only reloading once, I am extremely skeptical that they did that without doing some online research first.  Again, maybe it's just my pride but I couldn't/didn't do that.  Once I learned the game better, sure, nightmare became far too easy, but first time without research?  No.

I guess it's possible some of those people are just spamming potions or luring single enemies or abusing force field, but if that's the case, whatever. 

Modifié par soteria, 24 juin 2010 - 10:38 .

[Elhanan]

Survival skill helps with advanced intel, as well as a little buffing of that character. And I find little nuggets of helpful info in these forums from time to time concerning specific areas.

But occasionally, I luv it when I simply get lucky with my own playing tactics du jour. And I have died;l many, many times....

[wanderon]

soteria wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't forget that some people are simply lying about how easy the game is.

And some sincerly felt the game was very easy and managed to make it through with minimal troubles. What's your point here?

Just that we've seen an epidemic of trash-talk lately. It seems to be a console thing. The ME boards are far worse

DA isn't difficult- - RPGs generally aren't. And I think the design is flawed since high-dex characters become unhittable in the late game and are very tough earlier. But I don't think that getting through the whole game without having your PC drop once is common.

I wish Bio would release their stats, though. I'd love to know how many players actually unlocked the no-death achievements.

Maybe it's just my pride talking, but I have to agree that I think recently it's become the "flavor of the month" to exaggerate how easy the game is.  I"ve probably contributed to that attitude myself, but when I read posts about people playing the game on nightmare their first time through and only reloading once, I am extremely skeptical that they did that without doing some online research first.  Again, maybe it's just my pride but I couldn't/didn't do that.  Once I learned the game better, sure, nightmare became far too easy, but first time without research?  No.

I guess it's possible some of those people are just spamming potions or luring single enemies or abusing force field, but if that's the case, whatever. 

I doubt those sort of runs are common either - they certainly don't reflect the sort of gameplay I have experienced altho my playstyle is just the opposite of what I suspect most of those making such claims would be using - rather than optomizing my characters/party and working to make them invulnerable to whatever the enemy is doing I often bend over backwards to make sure the enemy has a fair chance to beat me instead.   

And quite often they do just that...my only full completed origins campaign at the moment shows my mage  character Alimar sustaining 72 injuries on my profile (altho the accuracy of any of the numbers in our profiles is probably questionable considering the ongoing issues this site has had since day 1)

I experienced much of the mid to late game for the first time with this character and I was playing on hard. As I recall there were a few fights where I backed down to normal after 2 or 3 reloads as well but then again I had stayed away from some of the most powerful spell lines and RP'd him as a SH/AW. He had fire as his main DPS and only mind blast as CC for most of the game but he completed the mage & SH line and healing line and eventually the AW.

Frankly I would be terribly dissapointed in a RPG that allowed me to play through on the hardest difficulty with no deaths - in fact I pretty much never play the hardest difficulty to begin with altho I do typically play "core rules" where AoE and other such things are not nerfed to make the game easier - but I have only played higher difficulties in games where you were rewarded for doing so - like IWD where not only monster damage was increased but your experience for killing them as well...

[miltos33]

The achievement is not kind of a big deal because somebody can abuse the save and reload system while somebody else can make a genuine effort to complete the entire game on the hardest difficulty with a very small number of injuries.

[mildmort]

Thank you for the infomations....

I see it's a mysterious world.

I think I can't suevive at all.

Hope there is a death, there is a tragedy, too.

In the game, I hope.

[Haexpane]

rickcr wrote...

I'm not a complete newb to RPGs.. understand tanking, pulling, aggro, etc. My characters are only around level 9 right now and certain parts I'm finding quite challenging. 

You are at the hardest part of the game right now.  Level scaling is broken, once you get past level 15 the game becomes easy, level 20-30 becomes EPIC EASY in DAA

[Haexpane]

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't forget that some people are simply lying about how easy the game is.

Maybe, but as we know it's really about level scaling and which area you are in.

Dorf town is the worst area to start with, there really is no reason for the game to allow you to choose your next area, all it does is create balance problems and for NEW players, you can easily miss out on 2 of the best characters in the game within the first 5 hours of playing

[Haexpane]

OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor wrote...

Would people say its harder to survive on the XBOX/PS3 than over the PC?

PC has more enemies, but on PS360 the enemies are supposedly harder.

Counter that with the fact that on PS360 you can only have ONE companion/pet total, for the whole group!  So you can have a bear OR an UNdead.  you can't have both... so if you are like me and had a ranger and a necro in your party, you got GIMPED on the consoles.

Consoles have no "console" command (cheat) and without a doubt a huge amount of PC players on these boards use console commands/mods/cheats (and then complain about glitches )

Control is also way easier on the PC, camera is better on the PC, tactics are easier on the PC etc... so in a sense the PC version is way easier if you use all that is available.

My DAA character has 4 injuries, my DAO character has 8.  I'd say at least half of them were from level 1-10 (the hardest part of the game) and I think I died 3x in the first level.

Once you get good gear and potions, it's hard to die on medium.  I also have a few deaths from playing while not really watching (talking to my GF or falling asleep)

I also tried to solo a few bosses which caused me a death in DAA because I had a 2H tank trying to solo the LIfetapping boss, we fought to a draw so eventually I just let her kill me because 30 minutes of a draw was boring.