60 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

I don't know why Anora is willing to admit faking mortal peril to see if you would ally with her but once you refuse to support her politically she denounces you as a threat to Ferelden when she really means 'a threat to her power.' I mean, that's what she does but telling you at the Landsmeet when everyone else can hear her...that's got to weaken her claims.

[Giggles_Manically]

Thats why I am setting her up for a fall this time around so Alistair dosent have to marry her. Also I havent had a hard fight with my current PC

-Two Handed, Berserker, Templar, in Wades Superior Dragon Plate, with Yusaris. The is pure win my friends. Plus the fact that I dont like her after all the twisting she did to me.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Cant you also lose Anora's support if you tell her Loghain must die.

Yes, tested that.  I promised to support her bid but told her that I definitely planned to shorten Loghain and she turned on me in the LM.

Vivat Alistair Rex!

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juin 2010 - 08:16 .

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't know why Anora is willing to admit faking mortal peril to see if you would ally with her but once you refuse to support her politically she denounces you as a threat to Ferelden when she really means 'a threat to her power.' I mean, that's what she does but telling you at the Landsmeet when everyone else can hear her...that's got to weaken her claims.

She words it in such a way that it makes it look like you're the paranoid one, trying to slander her poor father.

[Giggles_Manically]

HAND SUMMARY:

Anora's Support :3 points

Revered Mother :2 points

One Noble :1 point(Wulf, Alfstansa, Crow Quest Noble, Tortured Noble, Vaughan) from Quests

The arguments of :Slavery in the Alienage, and the Blight over Orlasis - points to you

The arguments of :Alistair's Kingship, and Loghain's trechary -points to Loghain



So while Anora is the highest support their you can win if you avoid the negative arguments and do all the quests.

[Nero280]

I don't know how anyone can release Vaughan from his cage. He hates Elves, so I hate him. I always kill that arrogant *beep*. Denerim is better off without him!

[Sarah1281]

Nero280 wrote...

I don't know how anyone can release Vaughan from his cage. He hates Elves, so I hate him. I always kill that arrogant *beep*. Denerim is better off without him!

If you're not a CE and don't bring up Soris or ask why he's there (he already tells you that Howe put him there to get him out of the way and knowing Howe that could be all the reason he needed) then he seems perfectly reasonable and you need his vote so why not let him out? It's only metagaming for you to know otherwise without, again, bringing up Soris or asking for more information.

[Joshd21]

Here's what happens at the landsmeet if you are a Noble Orgin, do not and I repeat do not kill Anora's father if you wish to become her King, she will not allow it. If you truely want him dead, then duel him and select the option "I can't do it" and Allister will finish him off

If you are not of noble orgin you can't marry her. You have the option to help her on the throne or Allister or have them marry each other. Though when you save the queen you have to check the underground dugeons and talk to the noble that was held there.

The quest with the elfs honestly doesn't matter one way or the other it will have no real effect on the lands meet. It helps to have your persuade points high enough and to make anora think you will place her on the crown even if you don't

Once you get voted in, Logan will try to have an all out battle. Pick the option to duel him honorabley or you will have a battle royal on your hand. The lands meet is really a pice of cake. Just get the noble in the dungeon

[Nero280]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Nero280 wrote...

I don't know how anyone can release Vaughan from his cage. He hates Elves, so I hate him. I always kill that arrogant *beep*. Denerim is better off without him!

If you're not a CE and don't bring up Soris or ask why he's there (he already tells you that Howe put him there to get him out of the way and knowing Howe that could be all the reason he needed) then he seems perfectly reasonable and you need his vote so why not let him out? It's only metagaming for you to know otherwise without, again, bringing up Soris or asking for more information.

The first problem with Vaughan is the fact that he threatens to have me whipped, without even asking who I am. Then I ask Vaughan what caused the Elf Uprising, and he gives me this crap about the Elves thinking they are people. I got news for him, the Elves ARE people! Denerim is better off without this jerk, so I always kill him.

As for his vote, I don't need it one bit. I've got Anora, the Grand Cleric and the Elf Slaver Documents. I also rescued that Bann's son from Howe, so his vote also goes my way. It's a slam dunk win for me, except for that other Bann who always votes for Loghain. No need to have a racist Arl in Denerim!

[Giggles_Manically]

As a city elf I always kill him. As my Human Noble I just made him abdicate and join the Chantry.

PAY BACK IS A SODDER heu buddy?

[MadCat221]

Here's my "morally pure" Landsmeet win (without Arnora or Vaughan):

Finish the Antivan Crows quest line
Free Arl Bryland's son
Free Bann Alfstanna's templar bro (or at least try to, and give her the ring)
Leave the Chaotic Stupid Bigot Vaughan to rot in his cell (or con him out of money, or outright kill him)
Get the Slave Papers by curb-stomping Caladrius (may not be needed, but still needed for moral self-respect)
Tell Arl Bryland
Tell Bann Alfstanna
Tell Arl Wulf (do you need to avoid outing yourself as a Warden to him?)

At the Landsmeet, you need to say certain things in order with the above setup.  The actual "Landsmeet Points" are not actually tallied up until you say certain things at the Landsmeet.

1: Remind everyone that the Blight is the threat, not Orlais (+1 from Wulff)
2: Mention Howe's taste for torture (+1 from Bryland)
3: Mention that Lohgain sent an apostate to kill Eamon (+1 from Alfstanna, +2 from Furious Grand Cleric)
4: Noble Who Contracted The Crows supports you without Landsmeet prompting.

The slave papers are redundant because they're an alternative way to get Bryland's vote... which you already have.  I'm not sure why using it instead of Howe Torture fails, since they both get Bryland's vote.  The difference is the last noble... I guess he doesn't care about elves as much as the possibility that his children will be mutilated should he speak out against Lohgain (and sees a chance to thwart that possibility by siding with you).

The instances of tallying them up beforehand but still "losing" the Landsmeet to a deadlock are because the wrong things are said at the actual landsmeet.  This set of Landsmeet dialog choices are consistently effective at prevailing, provided the afforementioned preparatory measures are taken.

Modifié par MadCat221, 28 juin 2010 - 04:04 .

[Xandurpein]

If you don't worry about lying through your teeth to Anora, the easiest way is to promise Anora you will support her and then go behind her back. If you promise Anora you will back her she will speak on your behalf at the Landsmeet. Once you have won the vote and duelled Loghain you just double cross Anora and give the crown to Alistair.

If you have moral doubts about going behind Anora's back you can always tell yourself she would have done the same to you if the tables were turned. (I like Anora a lot, but she probably would I think).

Modifié par Xandurpein, 28 juin 2010 - 10:20 .

[Sarah1281]

The difference is the last noble... I guess he doesn't care about elves as much as the possibility that his children will be mutilated should he speak out against Lohgain (and sees a chance to thwart that possibility by siding with you).

What? Since when are the nobles really afraid that their children will be mutilated by Loghain? Sure it happened to Sighard's kid but I'm not sure Loghain knew about that and that was about him knowing what happened at Ostagar, not due to his father's politics. Besides, everyone is shocked anyway when they find out.

If you have moral doubts about going behind Anora's back you can always tell yourself she would have done the same to you if the tables were turned. (I like Anora a lot, but she probably would I think).

She does exactly that if you say you won't support her or are too eager to kill Loghain when talking to her.

[Addai]

MadCat221 wrote...
Tell Arl Wulf (do you need to avoid outing yourself as a Warden to him?)

No, all he seems to care about is that you speak out about the Blight at the Landsmeet.

The slave papers are redundant because they're an alternative way to get Bryland's vote... which you already have.  I'm not sure why using it instead of Howe Torture fails, since they both get Bryland's vote.  The difference is the last noble... I guess he doesn't care about elves as much as the possibility that his children will be mutilated should he speak out against Lohgain (and sees a chance to thwart that possibility by siding with you).

You mean Ceorlic?  He always supports Loghain, regardless.

I mentioned earlier that I chose all the "right" responses and still lost 2 out of 3 times if Anora went against me.  There must be some randomization to the outcome.

[MadCat221]

No, the very last guy is the difference between slave papers and noble's tortured son. I am aware of that one guy who always votes Loghain. The very last guy is not him.  He has a big mustache on him (though I'm not sure if that's because of a mod that might have changed his face...).

It is not randomized. I have done it repeatedly with this set of preparations and this set of in-Landsmeet responses.  The difference between Last Guy With 'Stache voting for Lohgain or You appears to be mentioning Howe's taste for torturing.  I've tested the Landsmeet many times over with the above preparations, and I can consistently get a win in the landsmeet if I use those responses in order: Blight is threat, Howe Torture, Apostate Poisoned Eamon.

EDIT: This dude is the one that is determined by either Slave Papers or Howe Torture.  



In this case, he voted in favor of me because I chose Howe Torture over Slave Papers, giving me the prevalence in the Landsmeet, despite Queen LookOutForNumberOne's betrayal.  The noble right before him is the one that always votes Lohgain.

EDIT 2: Hmmm...  What responses were given when Loghain brought up his daugnter?  I said "We're discussing your crimes here", and then "I knew you were working with Loghain".  I think I chose a different Arnora Betrayal response once and still got a Landsmeet win.  In any case, even with saying "your crimes here", I still lost the last guy's vote with Slave Papers instead of Howe Torture.

Modifié par MadCat221, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:00 .

[Zjarcal]

^^^ I got his vote by bringing up slavery, although I also had Anora's support.



Perhaps the torture/slavery issue determines his vote only when Anora doesn't support you.

[MadCat221]

Of course you won, you had Anora on your side.   Anora's support is a hefty +3 vote. You really have to be lazy to lose the Landsmeet with Anora's support, as you just need two more votes to win it.

I'm thinking that maybe the Slave Papers issue doesn't properly add a point or something when you bring it up.

Modifié par MadCat221, 01 juillet 2010 - 07:21 .

[Mdfitz]

the first time for me it was a tie for who had the most supporters and we had a massive battle and then the duel.



the seond i had all but 1 supporters

[MadCat221]

That one Loghain supporter votes that way no matter what. You have a one single supporter no matter what too, the two basically counter each other out and don't matter.

[Zjarcal]

MadCat221 wrote...

Of course you won, you had Anora on your side.   Anora's support is a hefty +3 vote. You really have to be lazy to lose the Landsmeet with Anora's support, as you just need two more votes to win it.

I'm thinking that maybe the Slave Papers issue doesn't properly add a point or something when you bring it up.

I was talking about getting the last guys vote, since that's what your question was about, not about winning the whole thing (can you really lose if you have Anora's support?).

[Zjarcal]

EDIT: Damn... double post.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 juillet 2010 - 07:34 .

[MadCat221]

Yeah, and I'm thinking that the +3 from Anora counteracted any bugginess that may or may not be associated with Slave Papers not doing anything to the count.

I'm thinking that those people support you regardless if you talk to them beforehand, but the game tallys up Landsmeet Points as each dialog round occurs, and then the final determinant is Ginger 'Stache Noble at the end, who votes for you if you have the requesite points.  I'm also thinking that Slave Papers isn't properly adding +1 to that tally.

Guaranteed Pro-Warden and Pro-Loghain guys don't count in the tally.  Therefore, my tally in that case is...

+1 Blight is threat not Orlais (Wulff)
+1 Howe torture (Sighard)
+3 Apostate Assination Attempt on Eamon (+1 Alfstanna +2 Angry Grand Cleric)
+1 Noble Who Hired Crows To Get Son Back Who Sounds Like Zaeed (not prompted in Landsmeet)

But you must bring each of their issues up for all to hear and have them back you up.

Modifié par MadCat221, 01 juillet 2010 - 07:49 .

[Aurelet]

I guess it's a case of the Nobles not really caring about the elves in the first place.

[MadCat221]

Yeah, I'm thinking that may be a possibility... but a lot of nobles seemed a bit irked that Loghain would even allow slavery, even to just a bunch of knife-ears. They're thinking of the slippery slope (and considering Lohgain's own slipping of sanity, is a perfectly valid concern). Which makes me think it may be a bug, not adding the point to the Landsmeet tally.

[mousestalker]

Loghain tried to poison a fellow noble. He did it directly. And he used a maleficar to do it. Where the difference lies is that he grabbed Jowan from the templar's custody and placed the templar in durance vile.



The poisoning itself gets +1, the interfering with the Chantry gets +1 and the other +1 comes from imprisoning Irminric.