390 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

element eater wrote...

hopefully they will take a good look at the list u put on page one and get as much of those done as possible

that quest updating issue is another particularly annoying bug iive encountered hope u get that one the patch list too

The list on page 1 are the CONFIRMED (supposedly) fixes. They're already (supposedly) done.

Edit: Are you talking about Bruno's list perhaps? If so then ignore my post above.

You might also be interested in this list. I'm sure there's a PC equivalent one too somewhere...

Modifié par Wicked 702, 30 juin 2010 - 01:33 .

[ladydesire]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Blaming the "publisher" or the "ebil suits of doom!" is one of
the most common excuses, and one of the most reeking of
denial and delusion. "It's EA's fault!". Sorry but no. The duty of
a professional developer is to work within the publisher's
bounds in order to provide a complete and enjoyable product.
It's really that simple.
Bioware failed in that, and it's Bioware's responsibility alone.

If DA was a PC only release that was this buggy, I might agree; since some of the more serious issues are on consoles, should Bioware be held solely responsible, or should company that handled the port share some of the blame?

Many EA branded products get released with no major
problems and patched in decent or even quick timeframes, so
it's entirely possible, and DA's sad state is not EA's
responsibility.

How many of those games are based on a brand new game engine? Even Mass Effect 2 is based on a fairly stable engine which they have prior experience with (the Unreal 3 engine, which they also used in Mass Effect).

Fanboy zaelotry has a few results, and none of them positive.
They normally manage nothing else than encouraging
developers to think that no matter how bad they fail, they will
still have support because "they're popular", they inflame
further the people that suffer from legit issue with their
mindless developer cheering, and ultimately they hinder the
provlem solving process with their habit to minimize the
problem, creating lots of unneed radio noise.
As a quite well known and popular game director said, there's
nothing more detrimental for a game's quality and it's
development than the fanboys.

I agree that some people go overboard and seem to imply that Bioware did no wrong with DA, but I don't think I've ever done so. I also believe that people saying "let the community fix what they can and Bioware fix what we can't" is detrimental to the game quality; this is one reason why I don't use community bug fixes like Qwinn's fix pack.

[Satti1]

Put Blackblade gloves and Blackblade boots in the mine and i;m happy

[Abriael_CG]

ladydesire wrote...
If DA was a PC only release that was this buggy, I might agree; since some of the more serious issues are on consoles, should Bioware be held solely responsible, or should company that handled the port share some of the blame?

It's more the company that decided to release a game that was mostly catered to PC gamers on consoles (obviously without being qualified to work on three platforms at the same time) to begin with, and not to make PC and console developement entirely separate both coding and timeframe-wise.

They should have obviously released it on PC only initially, then ported it on consoles later, with entirely separate and specialized  teams working independently on each version, so that one version wouldn't be held back by the others (as they actually promised to keep PC gamers quiet when the several months delay of the PC version in favor of consoles was announced), adding further delays to more delays and adding bugs on top of other bugs.

This is what one gets for trying to do more than he can handle.

This way PC gamers got an extremely buggy version of the game, delayed of several months and with further development held back by consoles, while console gamers got a gimped version of the game with an half-baked and awkward control scheme.

Everyone lost out of this silly choice. And obviously it wouldn't be silly to say that Bioware didn't have a sizable hand in taking this decision. Even if EA tried to force the issue, they'd always been able to say "sorry, we aren't qualified for this kind of development process".

How many of those games are based on a brand new game engine? Even Mass Effect 2 is based on a fairly stable engine which they have prior experience with (the Unreal 3 engine, which they also used in Mass Effect).

Quite a few actually. But it's an unrelated issue since most of the bugs dragon age suffers from aren't engine-related. They are related mostly to bad coding of quests and rulesets, and  shamefully sloppy QA.

If the problems were only crashes, memory leaks and graphical artifacts, it'd be much, much less of a problem.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 30 juin 2010 - 03:40 .

[dragonsouce]

Abriael_CG wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
If DA was a PC only release that was this buggy, I might agree; since some of the more serious issues are on consoles, should Bioware be held solely responsible, or should company that handled the port share some of the blame?

It's more the company that decided to release a game that was mostly catered to PC gamers on consoles (obviously without being qualified to work on three platforms at the same time) to begin with, and not to make PC and console developement entirely separate both coding and timeframe-wise.

They should have obviously released it on PC only initially, then ported it on consoles later, with entirely separate and specialized  teams working independently on each version, so that one version wouldn't be held back by the others (as they actually promised to keep PC gamers quiet when the several months delay of the PC version in favor of consoles was announced), adding further delays to more delays and adding bugs on top of other bugs.

This is what one gets for trying to do more than he can handle.

This way PC gamers got an extremely buggy version of the game, delayed of several months and with further development held back by consoles, while console gamers got a gimped version of the game with an half-baked and awkward control scheme.

Everyone lost out of this silly choice. And obviously it wouldn't be silly to say that Bioware didn't have a sizable hand in taking this decision. Even if EA tried to force the issue, they'd always been able to say "sorry, we aren't qualified for this kind of development process".

How many of those games are based on a brand new game engine? Even Mass Effect 2 is based on a fairly stable engine which they have prior experience with (the Unreal 3 engine, which they also used in Mass Effect).

Quite a few actually. But it's an unrelated issue since most of the bugs dragon age suffers from aren't engine-related. They are related mostly to bad coding of quests and rulesets, and  shamefully sloppy QA.

If the problems were only crashes, memory leaks and graphical artifacts, it'd be much, much less of a problem.

Thank you for saying that so well could not agree more so.
The Company's Scewed up and been getting worse as time goes by releasing badly undertested Products and Being going on for far to long to say it is Isolated  insedent being Mindless Fan is not going to fix the problem.The Game a mess and no one being held accountable every one just passes the buck. DLC I do enjoy but not if the games still broken.So why all this time and personel on making new stuff when the game you sold us is broken ?   End of story.

Modifié par dragonsouce, 30 juin 2010 - 05:09 .

[Arrtis]

Deleted

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:46 .

[jpo598]

Arrtis wrote...

PC has toolset fixes for just about every problem the real problem are the consoles.

Your point?

[Arrtis]

jpo598 wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Deleted

Your point?

Deleted

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:48 .

[Bfler]

Arrtis wrote...

PC has toolset fixes for just about every problem the real problem are the consoles.

Also for crashes and slowdowns? 

[Arrtis]

Bfler wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Deleted

Also for crashes and slowdowns? 

Deleted

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:48 .

[Abriael_CG]

Arrtis wrote...

PC has toolset fixes for just about every
problem the real problem are the consoles.

This reasoning is the complete opposite of any idea of professional game development.

Don't get me wrong: I love the modding communities of basically every game that allows mods, I've been part of quite a few (Oblivion for instance, with some very popular mods, but not only). But a developer that releases an unfinished products and includes a toolset counting on the customers (that paid for such product) to make up for the work that the developer didn't bother doing is absolutely comtemptible.

A developer's duty is to get a product out in a finished state, THEN if the modders build great things on top of it, awesome, but the developer needs to make sure the base is solid.

I'm starting to think that the very reason (or at least one of the reasons) for which this game and it's expansions were released in such a shameful state is that the developers saw what the community did with previous similar games and felt overly safe because the modders would have "saved" the game whatever sorry state it was in.

This behavioir flies in the face of the very idea of professionalism. Simply put.

We paid a pretty penny for this game and the expansion. We shouldn't be SUPPOSED to fix it ourselves, or to browse the web in order to find obscure fixes that will allow us to play decently (and more often than not will be incompatible with each other, with each subsequent patch and so forth, and will very possibly break something else).

Modding is to make a game better than intended, not to make it work as intended.

Arrtis wrote...

Those problems may be on your side you know.

No, it may not. A developer's responsibility is to make a game work without problems on the widest range of configurations possible. The "the problems may be your PC" fanboyish excuse is not and will never be acceptable as long as one's PC equals or surpasses the hardware requirements.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 30 juin 2010 - 09:32 .

[Arrtis]

Deleted

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:47 .

[BrunoB1971]

Please let us not restart the console pc thing. People have to stop blaming the hardware for their game woes. Or do not anyone tell you that it is your pc or console that is at fault.

Fundamentally the game should be the same on all platforms and by this, i mean the idea of the game, the sum of it. The UI are different and graphics and gameplay is different but the game is basically the same. Otherwise people would feel cheated out if each consoles and pc had a different game "unless" it is console exclusive. But the different versions are coded differently of course and what may work on pc may be broken of the 360 or be broken on both or on all of them.

So you cant blame your rig. Bioware has stated loud and clear that they are fixing for xbox,ps3 and pc. Across the board. How it is gonna turn out? i do not know at this point.

I know it is hard to digest, the wait, the bickering, what is gonna be fixed, what is gonna be messed up. I know that my experience is not good because i can't play yet because of the bugs.

The only thing we can do is speculate and hope for the best. But bickering and saying that my car is better than you car if nonsense at this time...

talk about the bugs instead and how they are happening to you...it may help more than you think...

Modifié par BrunoB1971, 30 juin 2010 - 09:55 .

[Abriael_CG]

Arrtis wrote...

You can add fanboyish to that excuse but it wont make it any less valid.

Can't be less valid than zero, given that the validity of that excuse is exactly zero. A developer publishes the minimum requirements for a game. When the game doesn't run properly on a PC that's equal or above such requirements, the responsibility for the malfunction falls entirely on the developer.

Sorry to burst a bubble, but there's simply no discussion here.

[Arrtis]

Deleted

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:49 .

[Abriael_CG]

Arrtis wrote...

I would only assume that is if that computer is used for strictly games and nothing else.

Sorry but this is absolute bullcrap. The use of non-gaming programs has nothing to do with Dragon Age or any game not working properly. All the game should need is the proper hardware and updated drivers for that hardware.
Everything else is a petty excuse.

But do go on, it's quite amusing to see to what ends fanboys would go in order to justify the shortcomings of their favourite software house.

[Arrtis]

Deleted:O

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:45 .

[Callidus Thorn]

It doesn't matter what the computer is used for. If the computer matches or exceeds the recommended specifications for the game, but cannot run it, that is the fault of the developer. The number of people having the same issues would have to mean that the game would only run properly on an extremely specific system, which is not what the required specifications state.

[Arrtis]

*deleted;)

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:44 .

[Abriael_CG]

Arrtis wrote...

You are simply not taking in all the possibilities.
If you want to close your mind off to anything that makes you potentially wrong go for it.
I personally like to argue.
Lets just say all reports of crashes are untrue.

This isn't "arguing", this is nonsense.

My computer is largely above the hardware requirements, i check and update all my drivers once every two weeks, defrag the hard disk regularly, have a state of the art antivirus/firewall package that i pay for once a year and run basically every other PC game with no problem or acceptable very minor issues.
Dragon Age is the only game between the MANY i play that's been released in such a shameful state of malfunction and that has taken so long without a reliable suit of fixes from the developer in sight, with the developer concentrating on further DLC instead of fixing what's already there. Even games much more complex but developed by minuscle indie developers like Mount & Blade Warband (that mind you, easily displays 400 fully detailed and unique human models on screen, something that the dragon age engine doesn't even get near to), run flawlessly.

This, of course, without even mentioning the fact that most of the problems dragon age incurs in have absolutely nothing to do with hardware or the engine, but are simply a byproduct of sloppy coding, bad toolset usage for the quests and sub-par QA.
Bioware is entirely responsible for the problems we're facing, and their overly slow response to such problems, combined with the fact that they're using a sizable part of their development AND testing resources to generate further revenue instead of fixing what's already there flies in the face of professional game development, and is completely unacceptable, no matter how you try to spin it.

I say there are tons of viruses and other programs running that cause
the crash!

Most people have functioning antiviruses (and mind you, the problems occur whether the antivirus is enabled or disabled), also, most non gaming programs aren't always active on the background. I use my computer for work plenty, with photoshop, office, Sony vegas and plenty other non-gaming related programs. None of them runs in the background while I game. So, again, this is a pretty worthless excuse.
I'm sorry, but people aren't stupid, despite the fact that you shamelessly try to spin the issue by trying to imply just that, most already tried killing every other process in order to try and play this game decently. Guess what? it doesn't work, because the game simply suffers from extremely sloppy development and optimizatoon on the developer's part.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 30 juin 2010 - 10:48 .

[-Zippi-]

Arrtis wrote...

PC has toolset fixes for just about every problem the real problem are the consoles.

I disagree a lot on that one. Of course consoles need fixes also, but the PC is just as important.

Yes, there are mods that fixes dialogue and other problems, BUT that is not a satisfiable solution. The real game should be working perfect for everyone with a good enough PC. Me and a lot of other players are also sceptic to have to many mods by random people installed. You never know if they have taken the liberty to change more than the bugs. I had one "dialogue-fixing mod" that did massive changes to the epilogue story. I don't think I had noticed that if it was my first playtrough.

Also I am sure that most PC-players doesn't know about mods. They just play the game one time and then moves on to another title.

Anyway: No mods can fix the crashing, lagging and low FPS. The most gamebreaking bugs.

But why discuss this? They are fixing both PC and consolle now:O

Modifié par -Zippi-, 30 juin 2010 - 10:50 .

[Arrtis]

-Zippi- wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Deleted

I disagree a lot on that one. Of course consoles need fixes also, but the PC is just as important.

Yes, there are mods that fixes dialogue and other problems, BUT that is not a satisfiable solution. The real game should be working perfect for everyone with a good enough PC. Me and a lot of other players are also sceptic to have to many mods by random people installed. You never know if they have taken the liberty to change more than the bugs. I had one "dialogue-fixing mod" that did massive changes to the epilogue story. I don't think I had noticed that if it was my first playtrough.

Also I am sure that most PC-players doesn't know about mods. They just play the game one time and then moves on to another title.

Anyway: No mods can fix the crashing, lagging and low FPS.

When the concoles are fixed up to the same point as the pc I will agree the pc is as important.
Console users are left with less free stuff and long lasting problems with no answer.

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 10:52 .

[ladydesire]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

PC has toolset fixes for just about every
problem the real problem are the consoles.

This reasoning is the complete opposite of any idea of
professional game development.

Don't get me wrong: I love the modding communities of
basically every game that allows mods, I've been part of quite
a few (Oblivion for instance, with some very popular mods, but
not only). But a developer that releases an unfinished
products and includes a toolset counting on the customers (
that paid for such product) to make up for the work that the
developer didn't bother doing is absolutely comtemptible.

I agree. I don't think this had anything to do with the buggy nature of the release version of DAO. Bioware did not do the console game engine ports; those were done by a company called Edge of Reality, which specializes in doing that.

A developer's duty is to get a product out in a finished state,
THEN if the modders build great things on top of it, awesome,
but the developer needs to make sure the base is solid.

I'm starting to think that the very reason (or at least one of
the reasons) for which this game and it's expansions were
released in such a shameful state is that the developers saw
what the community did with previous similar games and felt
overly safe because the modders would have "saved" the
game whatever sorry state it was in.

This behavioir flies in the face of the very idea of
professionalism. Simply put.

Without the toolset data for Awakening, we can't touch the most serious annoyances in it, so this only works for Origins, but it's probably not the case.

We paid a pretty penny for this game and the expansion. We
shouldn't be SUPPOSED to fix it ourselves, or to browse the
web in order to find obscure fixes that will allow us to play
decently (and more often than not will be incompatible with
each other, with each subsequent patch and so forth, and will
very possibly break something else).

Modding is to make a game better than intended, not to
make it work as intended.

Agreed, which is why the common statement of "let the modders fix it" offends me as one of those modders.

[Arrtis]

I am of the opinion being at least you have modders fixing it.

X box has no such luck.X box users have a large reason to complain.PC also but not AS much though.*due to mods with toolset* sure you cant do EVERYTHING.But console players can do NOTHING.

[Abriael_CG]

Arrtis wrote...
When the concoles are fixed up to the same point as the pc I will agree the pc is as important.
Console users are left with less free stuff and long lasting problems with no answer.

Console users should already be happy of what they got, considering that console development and certification issues are slowing down PC development considrably, and even more, the whole release of the game (that was scheduled for the beginning of 2009) has been delayed several months in order to accomodate the needs of console users.

That's why the development of console ports should have been completely separate to begin with, and should have never influenced the development of the PC version of the game.

Edge of Reality works only on some aspects of development, while many development processes are common, and that's one of the elements that makes this game such a mess to begin with.

Patching should be entirely separate. When a patch is ready on PC it should be released on PC, when a patch is ready (and certified) on a console, it should be released on that console, without any version bogging down the others.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 30 juin 2010 - 11:05 .