29 réponses à ce sujet

[Losse]

?

[SuSuSudio]

I'm trying to make it useful but it's pretty touch and go. Things happen so fast in combat that it's tough to use it effectively, and you're not going to survive very long if you sneak into a big group and try to make that work. It's a tough one, but I've had a couple fights where its come in handy.

[SuSuSudio]

I'm trying to make it useful but it's pretty touch and go. Things happen so fast in combat that it's tough to use it effectively, and you're not going to survive very long if you sneak into a big group and try to make that work. It's a tough one, but I've had a couple fights where its come in handy.

[Emloch]

Yes it is. It can give rogues an instant critical hit, providing their first attack connects. I've also used it to place traps near the enemy without being seen and then lure the enemy into them.

[vyvexthorne]

I've found it extremely useful for going in close with my rogue.. holding everyone else back and laying some traps.. then I back of a bit and shoot a couple arrows drawing some enemies into the traps.. then run back to my party for an ambush.

[macayle]

hell since this is my first play through i find just scouting ahead comes in handy

[NetBeansAndJava]

So far, I've found it difficult to justify putting a lot of points into stealth. Yes, there are situations where it will help a lot, but these are few and far between. Often the difficult fights where you'd need to prepare the most are scripted events and thus don't allow you the luxury of setting up carefully placed traps and stealthed characters. For instance, the game might send you 10 bad guys after a conversation and conversations often make all your characters gather around the PC.



One could argue that 4 pts of stealth allow you to effectively stealth during combat (3 req, but 4 makes it better). I have yet to try this... it may indeed prove to be worthwhile if this is true, since you could in theory stealth in combat even during a scripted event and then get a guaranteed crit, which is nice.



Bottom line: most fights don't need stealth. Just have someone pull mobs one at a time or have heavy aoe.

[NaimaRamirez]

Stealth certainly is worth it.

Both to put down traps and stuff as descriped above, but also as a handy way to lose aggro if you find you've drawn too much.

[PurpleChair]

Okay. I'm currently doing the Final Battle stuff, so I think I'm ready to start posting about things.

STEALTH IS THE MOST AMAZING TRICK IN THE ROGUE'S ARSENAL although it only really becomes useful once you have level 3 stealth, for all the reasons described in the "Stealth is useless because combat starts before I even realise there enemies around" threads. Depending on how you look at it, or what kind of situation you're in, it's probably the most overpowered ability in the entire game. There are two reasons for this:

1) YOU CAN STEALTH THROUGH ENTIRE DUNGEONS WITHOUT FIGHTING A SINGLE OPPONENT!
I know this isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, but I'm a pretty lazy guy so I did this at least five or six times. You can order your allies to wait at the entrance, stealth your rogue, and just walk on through the entire area without anybody noticing you. When you reach the boss room, there's usually a conversation at the start, and when that conversation begins your allies will be teleported back to your side. You will miss out on a lot of experience, but since all the enemies adjust to your level, it won't ruin your game.

I actually think this is a really bad exploit to leave in the game, and something should be done about it! But since it currently works, Rogue players may as well consider it as an option. It doesn't always work - you'll see for yourself some of the barriers that can block your progress - but if you want to try this for yourself, you can do this quite easily in the Cult of Andraste caverns, or the Dead Trenches.

2) YOU CAN KILL A LOT OF THINGS WITHOUT BEING ATTACKED AT ALL!

Once you have level 1 Poison-Making, and at least level 2 Stealth (although you'll usually want level 3 to really exploit this, so you can stealth during combat), you can often just hide in stealth and throw grenade-like items (acid flasks, shock bombs, etc) at your enemies until they are all dead. I even used this in a boss fight, once.

Again, I think this is a totally broken exploit and something should be done about it (the obvious solution would be for Bioware to flag grenade items as a stealth-breaking 'attack' instead of a non-stealth-breaking 'item usage'), but if you're having trouble with conventional combat, you should consider giving it a try!

If you put both of these things together, I guess you could probably do most of the game just using one Rogue... but these probably isn't enough money in the game to pay for all the grenade ingredients you'd have to buy. I really think there should be some enemies whose primary function is to detect stealth within a certain radius... like a subset of enemies that are called Scouts, or Watchmen, or Hunters, or something. It would make exploits like these a lot harder to pull off, and give Rogues something to think about before attempting to activate Stealth in combat.

Oh, and of course Stealth has some good conventional uses too, mostly when it comes to sneaking ahead to disarm traps (or lay your own down). With level 3 Steath, you can use it to take a little break from combat, drink a few potions, and apply some poison to your weapons. The automatic critical hit thing is really a bit worthless, but it gives you a little extra boost as part of a larger stealth combat plan... in one-on-one combat (like at the Proving), you can activate stealth, run away to a safe distance, and fire off four or five shots from a bow in the time it takes your opponent to reach melee range, and by that time your stealth is almost recharged and ready to repeat the procedure.

STEALTH IS AMAZING!

Edit: I supposed a moderator might want to move this to the Gameplay forum?

Modifié par PurpleChair, 21 novembre 2009 - 11:45 .

[Agni108]

Try playing an all rogue party (pc, leliana, and zevran) all with max stealth. It is extremely overpowered. Can the entire party can vanish in combat or after a cut scene ambush? Yes, and then proceed to wipe the floor with a counter ambush of their own.

[aberdash]

You can use grenades, set traps, and first hit is a crit so yes its useful.



Setting a trap on a enemy causes it to trigger as so as you finish setting it. Chuck a grenade at them after since they bunch up after the trap triggers and you'll do a ****load of damage.

[Jordi B]

PurpleChair wrote...

Okay. I'm currently doing the Final Battle stuff, so I think I'm ready to start posting about things.

STEALTH IS THE MOST AMAZING TRICK IN THE ROGUE'S ARSENAL although it only really becomes useful once you have level 3 stealth, for all the reasons described in the "Stealth is useless because combat starts before I even realise there enemies around" threads. Depending on how you look at it, or what kind of situation you're in, it's probably the most overpowered ability in the entire game. There are two reasons for this:

1) YOU CAN STEALTH THROUGH ENTIRE DUNGEONS WITHOUT FIGHTING A SINGLE OPPONENT!
I know this isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, but I'm a pretty lazy guy so I did this at least five or six times. You can order your allies to wait at the entrance, stealth your rogue, and just walk on through the entire area without anybody noticing you. When you reach the boss room, there's usually a conversation at the start, and when that conversation begins your allies will be teleported back to your side. You will miss out on a lot of experience, but since all the enemies adjust to your level, it won't ruin your game.

I actually think this is a really bad exploit to leave in the game, and something should be done about it! But since it currently works, Rogue players may as well consider it as an option. It doesn't always work - you'll see for yourself some of the barriers that can block your progress - but if you want to try this for yourself, you can do this quite easily in the Cult of Andraste caverns, or the Dead Trenches.

2) YOU CAN KILL A LOT OF THINGS WITHOUT BEING ATTACKED AT ALL!

Once you have level 1 Poison-Making, and at least level 2 Stealth (although you'll usually want level 3 to really exploit this, so you can stealth during combat), you can often just hide in stealth and throw grenade-like items (acid flasks, shock bombs, etc) at your enemies until they are all dead. I even used this in a boss fight, once.

Again, I think this is a totally broken exploit and something should be done about it (the obvious solution would be for Bioware to flag grenade items as a stealth-breaking 'attack' instead of a non-stealth-breaking 'item usage'), but if you're having trouble with conventional combat, you should consider giving it a try!

If you put both of these things together, I guess you could probably do most of the game just using one Rogue... but these probably isn't enough money in the game to pay for all the grenade ingredients you'd have to buy. I really think there should be some enemies whose primary function is to detect stealth within a certain radius... like a subset of enemies that are called Scouts, or Watchmen, or Hunters, or something. It would make exploits like these a lot harder to pull off, and give Rogues something to think about before attempting to activate Stealth in combat.

Oh, and of course Stealth has some good conventional uses too, mostly when it comes to sneaking ahead to disarm traps (or lay your own down). With level 3 Steath, you can use it to take a little break from combat, drink a few potions, and apply some poison to your weapons. The automatic critical hit thing is really a bit worthless, but it gives you a little extra boost as part of a larger stealth combat plan... in one-on-one combat (like at the Proving), you can activate stealth, run away to a safe distance, and fire off four or five shots from a bow in the time it takes your opponent to reach melee range, and by that time your stealth is almost recharged and ready to repeat the procedure.

STEALTH IS AMAZING!

Edit: I supposed a moderator might want to move this to the Gameplay forum?

Nice post! I haven't played a rogue with stealth, so I wouldn't really know. The second thing you mention seems a little stupid, but could indeed be fixed by making grenades break stealth. The first "exploit" you describe doesn't really need fixing in my opinion. Being able to sneak past enemies seems like a viable gameplay/roleplaying choice with its own drawbacks (no loot, and no xp, but like you said that hardly matters). It's a little weird that your party gets teleported to you after the boss conversation, but then again, this also happens if you did bring them with you and put them in strategic positions.
I also like your suggestion for scouts/hunters. Like I said, nice post!

[likeorasgod]

My last time through I played a Human Noble A/D Rogue dual sword style.....I would actulay near the end of game stealth him past the bad guy group. Attack the big guy in the group and by time my party got to me I would have the other half of the bad guys killed. Yes it was very usefull. I think when I finish up my Dwarf Noble Warrior I'm going to do a Elf Archer build....might have to play with the three rouges ideal.

[Cannyone]

I've found it useful in some instances.  I used it in the version of the Fade forced on you by Sloth.  The sub-Demons were much easier to kill when I began with a backstab/ambush.   And I found it useful in sneaking ahead of my party and disarming traps.  (Which isn't always possible...)

[Loc'n'lol]

PurpleChair wrote...


STEALTH IS AMAZING!

This.
/thread.

[tranj84cl]

I abused stealth to skip long dungeons, like that in Dust Town. That alone makes it worth it. However, stealthing makes stealing easier, and that's awesome. Also, Combat Stealth is pretty much an "I win" button.

[Ashimmu]

tranj84cl wrote...
 Combat Stealth is pretty much an "I win" button.

[nuculerman]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but telling your party members to stay put and stealthing ahead to disarm all the traps is EXCEPTIONALLY useful. I only needed up to mechanical expertise (third tier) to disarm every trap I came across.



Also combat stealth isn't an "I win" button. It doesn't work in boss fights and is extremely hard to micromanage with.

[Ashimmu]

Okay, it isn't a win-button. My point, and I expect tranj84cl's, was that it's very useful. And it works on some boss fights, such as Jarvia. I imagine the dragons are the kind of bosses that see through your stealth.

[Odd Hermit]

Knowing what you're going to be up against can be the difference between getting killed or killing everything with ease.



Stealth and/or Survival Skill = Possibility of not being hit by a single enemy in many areas if you have one or two mid-high level mages with the right spells. I always take survival on one character, gives a nature/physical resist in addition to being useful, and I'd always take a rogue in any party just for scouting. Also it's great for finding/disabling traps.

[nuculerman]

combat stealth doesn't work on the jarvia fight. Maybe you had master stealth. Combat stealth doesn't work any any boss that is red. That includes Jarvia, any revenant, and a multitude of other bosses.

[Ashimmu]

I thought we were talking about stealthing in combat, not the actual talent named combat stealth. My mistake.

[Agni108]

If you have the tier 4 stealth, then combat stealth certainly does work on revenants. My rogue party regularly stealth kills revenants. So get your facts straight.

[tranj84cl]

Yes, I assumed we were maxing the stealth skill. And yes, you can stealth against anyone except super-duper awesome bosses. If you really wanted to, if you ran outside 20m you can always stealth.

[nuculerman]

get your word choice straight. Combat stealth is an actual skill. It's the third tier stealth skill. It allows you to stealth in combat. Master stealth is the fourth tier stealth skill. If you want to talk about "stealthing in combat with master stealth," then try not to ask "is combat stealth useful?" Because that's the name of an actual skill. It'd be like if I asked whether lighting was useful but meant tempest. People would be legitimately confused.