29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Skits]

Wow, very nice! I especially like how you did the visor. Your inks are so cleeeaaaaan.

Augh surprise ToTP! Since we were just talking about Garrus and melee, have a screenshot. XD

Modifié par Skits, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:46 .

[TheOtherHarbinger]

I've heard that Bioware characters often have analogues in other BW games. Just out of curiosity, does Garrus have one in, say, Dragon Age? Just an opinion question, really....

[Chewin]

@Skits

@TheOtherHarbringer Well not in Dragon Age. Here's a list in which games he has been in.

• Mass Effect 3
• L.A. Noire
• Company of Heroes Online
• Mass Effect 2
• Saints Row 2
• Mass Effect
• Company of Heroes
• Saints Row
• Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers
• EverQuest II: Desert of Flames
• Getting Up: Contents Under Pressure

[Leonia]

Wait, wait... Keener was in Everquest II?! I must know which NPCs he did.

[Chewin]

Well I have no clue. The only thing I can find is 'Voice'

Modifié par Chewin3, 28 juillet 2011 - 09:07 .

[Leonia]

That man needs to do an audiobook some day, seriously.

[TheOtherHarbinger]

Gah! My questions make no sense when I'm sleepy! What I SHOULD have said was, can anyone think of a Bioware character with a similar.... archetype to Garrus? For example, I've heard people compare Miranda to Bastila.

[Chewin]

Well there was discussion a few days ago that there where similarities with Alistair and Garrus, though I didn't find them at all similiar . . . except their awkwardness and jokes.

[BubbleSauce]

Chewin3 wrote...

Kai Leng vs. Garrus?

I am I the only one that feels that garrus could never win that fight? Hell, I don't even think shepard could win that fight, nor anyone on the normandy for that matter...

The man once killed an entire turian sqaud with just a combat knife, do you think that one turian of equal training is going to be any match for him?

[Obsydian]

Garrus and Varric are totally bros. they've been compared before, and i totlaly agree with it.

you might be right, Bubble. but in all fairness, those turians, though they were very well trained, were still just army grunts. even a militaristic race like turians has army grunts. I like to think that Garrus would be more than that by this point. Also, he got the jump on that squad and surprised them. Which probably helped.

[Chewin]

Obsydian wrote...
Garrus and Varric are totally bros. they've been compared before, and i totlaly agree with it.

Yeah, though Varric is the more bro. Sadly enough.

@Bubble Yeah, no one would win Leng in a hand-to-hand combat. Thane could have a chance, but not really sure no one else. But Garrus won't go down that easily!

[BubbleSauce]

Obsydian wrote...

Garrus and Varric are totally bros. they've been compared before, and i totlaly agree with it.

you might be right, Bubble. but in all fairness, those turians, though they were very well trained, were still just army grunts. even a militaristic race like turians has army grunts. I like to think that Garrus would be more than that by this point. Also, he got the jump on that squad and surprised them. Which probably helped.

Yes, but he is still just one man, and kai leng is partly robotic from what I've seen of the concept art, so he could have some crazy augmentation stuff worked in there that reduces the effects of pain in his body or increases his strength, (sorry, I'm little bit too excited for Deus Ex: Human Revolution at the moment) who knows what cerberus has worked into him to increase his combat proficiency...

Chewin3 wrote...

@Bubble Yeah, no one would win Leng in a hand-to-hand combat. Thane could have a chance, but not really sure no one else

Yeah, maybe I did rule out thane too quickly, I never really used him, it seems like a stupid character to put in a squad based shooter anyway, he's basically raiden as a reptile crossed with some sniping ability, I'm all for different types of combat, but mass effect isn't exactly an espionage shooter, I play an infiltrator, and even then, I don't really infiltrate anything, I just did what a soldier does only I hung back a little, picked the hostiles off and let garrus and zaeed handle the close quarter stuff, the only time I even tried to be stealthy was on legion's loyalty mission and it didn't help that the stupid robot kept tripping all of the bloody wires. Anyway I'm rambling, I still think even thane wouldn't be a match for him, I don't know, maybe I'm over-estimating his power, he looks like a bad-ass though, I kind of wish he was on our side in mass effect 3.... <_<

Chewin3 wrote...

But Garrus won't go down that easily!

That's pretty optimistic chewin, maybe I'm just of the minority to think that if anyone is going up against kai leng alone, their going to need a lot of medi-gel, although maybe if shepard was there with him, I'd say if he was going up against both shepard and garrus, he'd have a pretty hard time, soldiers generally fight harder when they have an emotional connection to those that they're fighting with. 

Obsydian wrote...

Garrus and Varric are totally bros. they've been compared before, and i totlaly agree with it.

 

As for garrus's simalarities to other bioware characters, um, I don't know really, I haven't played dragon age 2 so all that I really know about varric is that he's a dwarf... honestly I'm having trouble picturing it already, could someone explain to me the similarities?

And I don't really see the comparison to alistair either, I loved alistair, he was funny and awkward, he just seemed like the kind of guy that you could be friends with, (he actually made me stop pursuing morrigan as a romance option, because everything that alistair approves of, morrigan hates with a passion, and I liked morrigan's character sure, but I choose alistair, not just because I preferred his character but also partly because my aversion to playing renegade also crosses over to other rpgs) sure I see that in garrus but for me the similarities stop there. 

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:32 .

[Chewin]

At lest you had fun during the 'Arrival' DlC, using your stealth mode and all.

If I know Garrus, I think that he wouldn't even try to come close to Leng. In fact, I think he would try to keep his distance, taking him out at long range, which he is exceptionally good at. And if it would come down to it- Garrus being close up to Leng- he would try his best even if it was hopeless.

Well I'm relatively new still to DA2, so I can't help you there. I don't see any resemblance between Varric and Garrus.

As for Alistair, I did write quite a long post about him and Garrus. Maybe I could post it here again just for fun...

BTW, anyone here ever played The Witcher 2? It seems rather good and was inedning to buy it. Still a little unsure. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Sialater]

Arcian wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...

I am I the only one that feels that garrus could never win that fight? Hell, I don't even think shepard could win that fight, nor anyone on the normandy for that matter...

Come on now, be realistic. There isn't a fight in the universe that Shepard couldn't win.

All my Shepards are biotics, so... this. 

[BubbleSauce]

Chewin3 wrote...

At lest you had fun during the 'Arrival' DlC, using your stealth mode and all.

If I know Garrus, I think that he wouldn't even try to come close to Leng. In fact, I think he would try to keep his distance, taking him out at long range, which he is exceptionally good at. And if it would come down to it- Garrus being close up to Leng- he would try his best even if it was hopeless.

Well I'm relatively new still to DA2, so I can't help you there. I don't see any resemblance between Varric and Garrus.

As for Alistair, I did write quite a long post about him and Garrus. Maybe I could post it here again just for fun...

BTW, anyone here ever played The Witcher 2? It seems rather good and was inedning to buy it. Still a little unsure. Any advice would be appreciated.

Just in response to the witcher 2 thing, yes, it is brilliant, one of the best rpgs I have ever played, and I play a lot of rpgs, it looks beautiful as well, crank it up to ultra settings on a godly pc and watch the console gamers weep!! (nothing against console gamers, but you guys get all the great stuff, and the witcher 2 is coming to xbox later this year, at least let us enjoy this while it lasts, ok?) 

But yes, it's very good, and you'll get a lot of gameplay out of it, it dropped in price a little just recently on amazon so now would be a good time to pick it up.

Arcian wrote...

Come on now, be realistic. There isn't a fight in the universe that Shepard couldn't win.

I am being realistic, I hate this whole idea that shepard is some kind of omnipotent, indestructable super soldier, especially with the romances being the way they are, how the hell are you supposed to attribute emotion to something like that? Shepard is not a bloody terminator and the illusive man is not bloody skynet!

Speaking of skynet, er.. I mean, the illusive man, bioware has really defined this image themselves, it's not just a community thing. How much money did cerberus spend bringing shepard back to life? Ridiculous amounts! And why? Are you honestly telling me that there isn't another soldier out there who is as good as shepard? I get that he wanted a human because of the whole supremacist thing he's got going on, but honestly, with his wide net of contacts and informants, he couldn't of found someone who is, oh, I don't know... alive maybe?! It makes it very hard for me to take shepard seriously sometimes, I honestly don't beleive that there is anyone out there who is that good, to be worth all of that bother.

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:18 .

[Skits]

I think the thing with Shepard is less about ability, and more about personality/charisma/leadership/sheer drive to get things done. Miranda said it herself - Shepard's a symbol. I don't think Shepard's supposed to be presented as completely infallible - Arrival proves that at least, as does the suicide mission if y'don't do things right. Even Overlord shows that Shepard has weaknesses. However, she -is- supposed to inspire strong loyalty in those that follow her, and it's their help and support that helps her actually achieve the nigh-impossible. She would -not- have been able to take down Saren alone, and she would -not- have been able to take down the Collectors alone either.

So yeh, I doubt TIM resurrected Shep solely for her combat abilities. I believe it was more for the whole symbol/leadership thing. Just my opinion. 

As for Kai Leng vs Garrus, I really don't like Kai for some reason, so I'mma be biased and say Garrus. From a kilometer away, with a sniper rifle, before Kai even knows wtf is going on. Done. 

And now, have another pic! Garrus back on Omega, about to kick someone's ass.



Because even Garrus gets pissed off sometimes. 

[WardyLion]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I think that it's lacking in creativity to make the assumption that the turian military works exactly like the human military in terms of culture, though. All I'm saying is we don't know how the turian military works. I didn't say for certain that they don't curse a lot, simply that there's no real evidence that they do just because humans do. We have a distinct lack of insight when it comes to turian culture in comparison to some of the other species, due to having never been to a turian world.

And we have heard one turian saying the f-word, but that's hardly conclusive of anything.

I concur.  There has been a lot of work put into the game universe, which has been expanded-on in books  and graphic novels, and a read of any of the Wikia pages will show that each species' military is more than reasonably well defined.  Seeing as the Turians place high value on military service, a lot more work was put into defining their military.

Seeing as public services are tied to the turian military and vice-versa, it could just be that they are mindful of being courteous.

Despite being a bit of a potty mouth myself, I don't like swearing for swearing's sake - it has to be used judiciously.  

Wardy

PS Does anyone else find it wierd that I pinned the printed-screenshot of Garrus, which I used as a reference to the picture I posted yesterday) to my wall rather than throw it away? 

[Chewin]

Thx for your contribution, Bubble. I'm better player when it comes to consoles, and more comfortable when playing on them, but buying TW2 for PC sounds more like the right decisions. Mostly b/c of the graphics and all.

Yeah, I think we all can agree on your opinion of Shepard, Skits

[midasear]

BubbleSauce wrote...

Speaking of skynet, er.. I mean, the illusive man, bioware has really defined this image themselves, it's not just a community thing. How much money did cerberus spend bringing shepard back to life? Ridiculous amounts! And why? Are you honestly telling me that there isn't another soldier out there who is as good as shepard? I get that he wanted a human because of the whole supremacist thing he's got going on, but honestly, with his wide net of contacts and informants, he couldn't of found someone who is, oh, I don't know... alive maybe?! It makes it very hard for me to take shepard seriously sometimes, I honestly don't beleive that there is anyone out there who is that good, to be worth all of that bother.

It seems to me that  the Illusive Man learned that the Collectors, whom he already suspected of Reaper connections, were trying to obtain Shepard's corpse.   This demonstrated to him that the Reapers had a strong interest in Shepard.  Then during the entire course of ME2, the Illusive man manipulates both Shepard, and the Reaper's interest in Shepard and his associates, to his own advantage.

Maybe the IM could have tasked someone else with assembling a team to deal with the threat to Human colonies in the Terminus.  But that individual would not have attracted the Reaper's attention in a way that allowed the IM to manipulate the Collectors.  Both the Collector assault on Horizon and their subsequent effort to trap Shepard were the result of IM schemes that would not have been possible if Shepard had been replaced by a generic Cerberus Super-Soldier. 

And that's leaving aside that Shepard is also of intense interest to the Human public, the Alliance Military, the Council, the Shadow Broker, the Krogan, the STG and the Geth.  That kind of attention grabbing front-man might well be worth the investment even if he comes back to life no more combat capable than Joker.

[Skits]

 Hey yeah, I kinda forgot about the whole Collectors/Reapers being specifically interested in Shepard angle. That's another reason to bring Shep back, true. And TIM is such a manipulative bastard, heh.

Back to Kai Leng vs Garrus, here's a less flippant reply than my earlier one. XD  Contains mild book spoilers if that still matters to anyone, heh.

Part of the reason I dislike Leng so much is that the book seems to try too hard to make him appear totally awesome. Reading the scene with him taking out all those turian troopers had me going "What, really? Really?" the whole way through it. And then him escaping at the end just made me facepalm. It's like the writers were going, "This dude is badass! TOTALLY hardcore! Look how awesome he is! Isn't he awesome?! We'll have him get shot just to make sure people don't think he's perfect, but he's still going to get away anyway! We're gonna force how awesome he is down your throat!" and that just rubs me entirely the wrong way. I can be odd like that. XD

Like Bubble said about not liking Shepard being considered "some kind of omnipotent, indestructable super soldier", I don't like Kai being considered that either. Sure, I'll admit that he's damn good at what he does, but unbeatable one-on-one? Hell no. He's got his own weaknesses and flaws that could be exploited.

As for Garrus... let's look at the facts we know so far. He was, at least at one point, one of the top-ranked hand-to-hand specialists on an entire ship, and I like to think he's kept that skill up. He's a damn good cop and investigator, despite being occasionally impulsive and hot-headed. He's focused and driven, and though it's not a fact pushed very hard (or really at all) in the games, he's really damn intelligent. From his Archangel dossier: "Archangel is a mercenary commander whose operations are noted for their technical expertise and strategic brilliance." That's not something just anyone can lay claim to.

Garrus is good enough at what he does that he drew Cerberus' attention even though they didn't know who he actually was. He went toe to toe with a krogan battlemaster, and if Garm's reinforcements hadn't arrived, I'm pretty sure Garrus would've come out on top on that one. And then of course there's his marksmanship skills. XD He pissed off three entire merc groups so much that they banded together to take him out, and they STILL couldn't do it easily. He took a gunship rocket to the face and was up and back in business again with very little recovery time.

Another fact showing just how smart he is is his technical expertise on top of all his other skills. He maintained the Mako through all the hells that Shepard put it through in ME1, and he maintained, upgraded and calibrated the Normandy SR2's weapons, both the Javelins and the Thanix. He's not just some army grunt, he's bloody brilliant. But he's so modest about it and it's so understated in the game that it's easy to overlook. It's not jammed down your throat, and therefore doesn't drive me into a frothing fit of rage like Kai does. XD

So! With all that said, I think a fight between Kai and Garrus would be interesting. Sure, Kai's damn good, but Garrus is tough, experienced, and intelligent. He'd take advantage of absolutely anything he could, and if he could get away from Blood Pack on Omega, I think he'd be able to get enough breathing space against Kai to figure out  how to take him down. I think it'd probably be a close thing, and would also depend a lot on the situation. Of course, as a Garrus fangirl, I'd like to think he'd win. But he'd have to work for it. On the other hand, if Kai did win, he would have to work damn hard for it as well. 

Of course, this is all just my long-winded and probably somewhat biased opinion, take it with a grain (or block) of salt. XD Now let's see if anyone actually reads this wall'o'text, hehehe.

Modifié par Skits, 29 juillet 2011 - 01:06 .

[BubbleSauce]

God this discussion is brilliant, It kind of makes me want to just name random characters and pit them up against Garrus to see who'd win...

Well yes, when you draw up the facts garrus does have a better chance than I once thought, however kai leng seems like he wouldn't be beyond running the hell away if things got rough, if garrus could get him into a situation where he would be otherwise screwed, I'd say he'd have trouble nailing him down. I don't know, I'm really looking foward to seeing how bioware handles kai, if he is in fact an actual boss fight, it will be interesting to see how bioware takes the stealth ninja killy-assassin type thing, and make it work as an actual fight with the mass effect combat system, because lets face it, the boss fights in mass effect are uninspired at best.

Anyway, this page needs more art, here's an oc by Meken



And here's somthing that I just found while browsing deviant art, It's not brand new but you know how much I love gay turians! 



Second piece by CainsAngel 

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 29 juillet 2011 - 11:53 .

[Skits]

If Kai Leng runs away, I count that as a win for Garrus. Though given how tenacious Garrus can be, I think Kai might have a lot of trouble -getting- away if it got to that point.

But yeah, the game makes it easy for us to underestimate Garrus, even though we adore him. XD

Yeah, if Kai's in the game, it'll be interesting to see what Bioware does with him. I've been doing my best to avoid spoilers so far, so I don't really know what's going on with Cerberus in ME3 (apart from the fact that we get to kill Cerb guys again yay). But it'd be -really- interesting if Kai ends up as a team member at some point. I know that'd make at least some people in here happy. XD

And if Kai -is- a boss fight of some kind... yeah, that'd be tricky to pull off decently. Hm.

Segue! Thinking about Garrus tracking Kai in said hypothetical fight... have we ever discussed how good or otherwise a turian's sense of smell is? Would a turian be able to track someone by scent?

Meken's art makes me hang my head in shame and wish to be anywhere NEAR that good, heh.

[k8ee]

@Skits

About Kai Leng and his 'forced awesomeness', I completely agree. I actually listened to the audiobooks while walking to and from work, which was even worse because of the smarmy voice they had for the guy. It seemed like they were going for, what was it, the more advanced terminator robot in the second Terminator film. The one that's chasing Arnie around with the fancy mercury effects. I could google it. but I won't. Seems like they were going for that, but you're right, it just wasn't believable.

Whether or not Garrus would win? I'd say it would be completely determined on who had the element of surprise. If we're talking a la old west showdown, then I could see Garrus coming out on top. But if Kai Leng sneaks up on Garrus? Well I can't see Garrus having much chance - The same goes for Thane. If he wanted to, he could simple drop drown from the ceiling and break Garrus's neck.

On that note....

I posted a question on the other Garrus thread about saving Garrus or others. Check it out, I'd love to see what some of you think...

[BubbleSauce]

k8ee wrote...

I posted a question on the other Garrus thread about saving Garrus or others. Check it out, I'd love to see what some of you think...

Could you repost it here? A lot of us don't want to go there because of spoilers.