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[Chewin]

BubbleSauce wrote...
Ah Alistair easily my favourite character in origins, next to morrigan, I should probably get around to making a female warden, I was going to make may warden gay, then I saw that I could only have zevran and turned right back around again!

You could just use a mod from Dragon Age Nexus making Alistair available for a male Warden.

And as for Alistair, yeah it's hard to resist him. I think I took him along through almost everywhere during my playthroughs. I mostly like his humour. He's the only video game character that actually makes me laugh (Nathan Drake is a close second). But Alistair has problems too. He's incredibly childish, especially when it comes to the role of what it means in being a Grey Warden. Didn't really like him during the Landsmeet.
If I would have to choose my top 5 favourites characters, it would be Loghain, Maric, Morrigan, Alistair and Leliana.

Really? I found it to be the opposite, in fact after my first playthrough of the mass effect games I was quite surprised how dishonourable a race based around discipline and honour could really be. I think that all of the turians you meet are likable, in some way, but I wouldn't want someone like kuril or valern watching my back. We just don't really spend enough time with the ones that are loyal like Lorik or Nihlus I suppose.

Perhaps. But considering their disciplined nature, their perpetual need for military and public service and their strong sense for personal accountability, I see them being more loyal than the humans.

Modifié par Chewin3, 30 août 2011 - 03:50 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Chewin3 wrote...

@Ursula Yay, another Garrus admirer! And don't worry, there's room for Alistair here also

*awesome Aimo Alistair/Garrus crossover reluctantly snipped - I love Aimo's take on Alistair and the expression on Garrus there is great!*

Good to know (as Alistair would say). Out of the romances I've played or watched my husband play (for me, Alistair, Fenris, and Garrus, and for him, Miranda, Tali, Isabela, and Merril), I definitely find that Garrus, although carrying his own baggage, is the most refreshingly 'happy' romance of all of these. I guess I see people around me go through enough screwed-up relationship crap that I tire of it fairly easily. And while I certainly support shirtless Fenris...I dunno. I'm not the world's biggest smut fan, and I really dislike the love scenes in DA:O. The resolution of Alistair's romance made me want to pull my hair out.  DA2's scenes are much better IMO, hitting much better emotional notes (Fenris especially IMO) and yet leaving a lot to the imagination (which I like). And Fenris's end-of-game courtyard kiss is five kinds of epic. But I think the FemShep/Garrus one has the most sincere emotional intimacy in it with by far the least emotional baggage. It's a win either way. 

I'm rambling. I guess the central point is that it says something that the least-baggage relationship (for a Bioware game) really appeals to me, but I actually (Heaven forbid) like happy results (I hate to call it an ending just yet) most of the time.  Dark Fantasy twists and 'no win scenarios' get old after a while. This is why I'm having a hard time getting excited about A Dance with Dragons. I think I've officially reached a state of Dark Fantasy fatigue. (And being in the process of writing a large Fenris fanfic doesn't help.)

Well-played, Mass Effect team!

ETA: Wow. I just watched some of the Jacob dialogs regarding Garrus - wow. No romance for you, Jacob. (He already gets on my nerves if I do *anything* besides talk to him about missions anyway.) This just seals the deal. I'm not even willing to do it "for science". Ugh. What an ass.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 30 août 2011 - 04:22 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Sialater wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...
But as far as birth control is concerned, I'm pretty sure they have super-effective stuff by 2185.

...oh no, why did I use "super effective" in that context...?

Well Kasumi did say one of the Normandy crew got pregnant. Then again that is a Failberus vessel so you could suspect that their condoms breaks just like most things they make.

"Let me guess, HammerTech?"  (God I love RD, Jr.)

:O:O:O:O:O:O

I know this is old, and I'm really sorry, but that is too freaking funny.  (Also Failberus )

So do I, btw. .  

And, for the record, I approve of the 'no mutant babies' rule. I go into immediate  just thinking about it and start power-scrolling until the danger is past. (Of course, I don't want kids IRL, either, so...I can't identify with any of my characters (ME or DA) being so inclined, even if they could.)

Thank you for that.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 30 août 2011 - 04:37 .

[ArcanaLegacy]

Gosh darn it. I think its true! DX Not even BW can say what they revealed at the conference! And awwww! Garrus was there too!? Im jealous of my friend now.

Chewin3 wrote...

You know, the thing with Garrus is that he didn't even have to prove his loyalty to me. It's just that the first time I saw him, I knew he was someone that would hold my back. His body movement and the way he talks just adds more points to it. But truth be told, I see almost every turian to be very loyal (Okay, not everyone but you get the point).

I guess "prove" is the wrong word cuz I didnt really mean it that way XP He never had to prove anything to me because i had always trusted him the most. All the things he's done thus far have showed just a confirmation of what I already knew - That he's always there.
And also honestly i felt the SAME thing you said there when i saw Garrus for the 1st time. I saw it in him even b4 i realized he was recruitable. In that scene with Pallin, I automatically thought loads of things  [this being one] "Hmmmm. I really like this guy. Dam I hope i can get him on my team. Betcha he'll have my back for sure." - and about 20mins later....BAM! Garrus is recruitable! ^____________^ I was so extremely happy that i squealed!
Other thoughts were..well....you know. Garrus being attractive and all

As for trusting all turians- i get where you're coming from. I tend to like them but not all. im not so into trusting just about every turian I come across. Lucky for us, most turians we run into have been quite polite and all round awesome, but not all are like that. Look at Warden Kuril or Tonn Actus for example.  I go about treating all races the same. You never know when one random stranger becomes hostile and deserves a dam bullet or two.

Chewin3 wrote...
Yeah, Miri wasn't trustworthy in the beginning, but after you do her loyalty mission and take her to the Human Reaper, she resigns from TIM right in front of him, and that's where I know that I can trust her.

*high 5's Chewin* I always take Miri to the final boss [along with Garrus].
1-  i dont really trust her, so in that important final hour, I like to keep my eye on her in case she decides to do something else on cerberus' hidden agenda. 
2- The fact she just quits Cerberus like that actually impressed me. It totally caught me off guard. I thought she has going to do what TIM told her to do. I was ready to shoot her if she tried to stop me. But she didnt and backed up Shepards decision. At that moment, I knew then I could put some trust in her.

Chewin3 wrote...
You're saying Ash/Kaidan are awful as friends? Then what do you think of Shepard not sending a message back to them when they are your LI?

Not that theyre awful, but they sometimes have some lousy way of showing some faith in Shepard. I really do love Ash. She's quite an intriguing character. The fact she didnt trust aliens made me want to kinda give her reassurance that not all aliens are traitor-like punks. And when TIM and Anderson wouldnt say much on her, i felt bad. Now I find her again and she doesnt even listen to why ive been MIA. It hurt  Same goes for Kai. Im hoping now that the VS is back, its because they want to have Sheps back in this whole galactic struggle and not because someone higher up just put them on Sheps team.   

@Ursula: YAY! Welcome! Another Garrus lover is born. Woo!
You're against mutant babies? Im starting to like you already.

UrsulaCousland wrote...
But I think the FemShep/Garrus one has the most sincere emotional intimacy in it with by far the least emotional baggage. It's a win either way.

Actually I say FemShep/Jacob is by far the romance with the least emotional baggage. Heck - theres not much there anyways XD For my FemShep, she officially "friend-zoned" him. lol.

UrsulaCousland wrote...
ETA: Wow. I just watched some of the Jacob dialogs regarding Garrus - wow. No romance for you, Jacob. (He already gets on my nerves if I do *anything* besides talk to him about missions anyway.) This just seals the deal. I'm not even willing to do it "for science". Ugh. What an ass.

See - look at that. I didnt have to say much. Jacob just turned away yet another potential Shepard romance on his own XP Im guessing you saw Jacob call Garrus a "cuttlebone"? If only i can correct him. That's cuddlebone to you! XD I tried romancing him just to see what he says if you reject him for Thane, but....i couldnt go thru with it. I called it off in like the 1st or 2nd romance chat. Sry Jacob. I'll go have drinks with ya on the citadel, but i aint sleeping with ya.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
oh dear - I think i just did a mountain of text x.x

edit: yep. I made a mountain XD

Modifié par ArcanaLegacy, 31 août 2011 - 04:28 .

[ArcanaLegacy]

This pg is lacking awesome pics!
Oh wrex...little did he know that he planted the seeds.....




.........
.............
*faints from sexiness*

[BubbleSauce]

Arcana Legacy wrote...

I guess "prove" is the wrong word cuz I didnt really mean it that way XP He never had to prove anything to me because i had always trusted him the most. All the things he's done thus far have showed just a confirmation of what I already knew - That he's always there. 
And also honestly i felt the SAME thing you said there when i saw Garrus for the 1st time. I saw it in him even b4 i realized he was recruitable. In that scene with Pallin, I automatically thought loads of things

Am I the only one that didn't feel this way at all? And not just for garrus, but for everyone, call me cynical, but I'm of the school of thought that trust is something that should be earned and if you ever dare utter the words "Just trust me on this one" you've just lost any chance of getting it. While garrus has most certainly earned my trust since ME1, there have been multiple times in the mass effect canon when I've wanted slap garrus for being so naive that he might has well of been dropped out of the same facilty that trained the soldiers in splinter cell conviction. That whole archangle fisaco made me question whether not he was really listening to me when I lectured him about morals the first time around, I don't know, maybe he just thought I was the annoying teacher telling him what not to do, to whom he only listens so that he can do it when my back his turned and get a loud guffaw from his idiot classmates.

It makes me wonder when garrus is finally going to be completely independant of shepard, it's not that I doubt his leadership skills, in fact if we're going to break the fourth wall here, he's probably a better leader than anyone I know in fact or fiction. Shepard's all right I suppose, but it seems as though it's never really explained as to why people find her so infatuating, she just runs around asking for help, I think maybe it's because everyone in this universe has deep emotional problems, so their so busy drowning in their own low self-esteem that they overlook how much of a blithering idiot shepard can be sometimes. The problem is to me is, is that sometimes he can be a little bit like a child, so infatuated by every chance he can find to do justice that if shepard's not their to set him straight he realises that interstellar crime sindicates don't like being toyed with and gets himself into a life or death situation. Call me cynical, er.. again, but the idea that a squad of elite soldiers could take down one crime syndicate, let alone 3, is increadably frigging stupid.

Christ  it seems that in this post alone I've made more analogies than george orwell, what was I talking about again? Oh yeah, trust! It's not that I don't trust garrus, he's certainly earned it, but for gods sake I'd never trust him to do what wrex is doing, you know? A big boy job that doesn't involve needlessly killing people to inforce your own romanticised idea of justice.

Arcana Legacy wrote...

@Ursula: YAY! Welcome! Another Garrus lover is born. Woo! 
You're against mutant babies? Im starting to like you already.

Wait a minute, are you telling me there are people who actually like the idea of mutant babies?

Also, Biological Monstrosities isn't exactly a mutual ground, that's like two people bonding over how much they both hate testicular cancer, or the crusades.

-Hey, you know what I really hate? The third reich!

-Dude! Me two!

- Hey, wait. You hate the N*zis to? You and me mate, we're going to go far!

Edit: Are you telling me that bioware actually bleeps out the word n*azis? Talk about misrepresentation of ideologically sensitive material you ****s!

Aracan Legacy wrote...

See - look at that. I didnt have to say much. Jacob just turned away yet another potential Shepard romance on his own XP Im guessing you saw Jacob call Garrus a "cuttlebone"? If only i can correct him. That's cuddlebone to you!

I've always wondered, what exactly is a "cuttlebone"? You know a term is obscure when not even the urban dictionary has got a definition for it yet.

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 31 août 2011 - 02:11 .

[Chewin]

BubbleSauce wrote...
Am I the only one that didn't feel this way at all? And not just for garrus, but for everyone, call me cynical, but I'm of the school of thought that trust is something that should be earned

And there's nothing wrong in thinking that way. You would probably be the last man standing with all of your money intact if you, I and Arcana ever went to Omega.

and if you ever dare utter the words "Just trust me on this one" you've just lost any chance of getting it.

I shall remember not to ever say that to you then.

While garrus has most certainly earned my trust since ME1, there have been multiple times in the mass effect canon when I've wanted slap garrus for being so naive that he might has well of been dropped out of the same facilty that trained the soldiers in splinter cell conviction. That whole archangle fisaco made me question whether not he was really listening to me when I lectured him about morals the first time around, I don't know, maybe he just thought I was the annoying teacher telling him what not to do, to whom he only listens so that he can do it when my back his turned and get a loud guffaw from his idiot classmates.

Are you referring to the paragon route in ME1? Choosing the paragon options leads to you and Garrus being in  disagreement from the way he thinks, which is "it doesn't matter how you do it; just get it done." The renegade route is you agreeing (with him if I remember correctly).

And you don't seriously expect Garrus just to agree with you on how things should be. He says he should ponder about this, which he does, but gets lost during the way. He thinks that what he'll do in Omega is what you would do, but you can during his loyalty mission in ME2 get some interesint dialogs from him depending on what 'route' he took in ME1.

It makes me wonder when garrus is finally going to be completely independant of shepard, it's not that I doubt his leadership skills, in fact if we're going to break the fourth wall here, he's probably a better leader than anyone I know in fact or fiction. Shepard's all right I suppose, but it seems as though it's never really explained as to why people find her so infatuating, she just runs around asking for help, I think maybe it's because everyone in this universe has deep emotional problems, so their so busy drowning in their own low self-esteem that they overlook how much of a blithering idiot shepard can be sometimes.

You'll have to blame BW for that. And this is what annoys me with games, you're always the smartest guy in the story, and everyone turns to you. And obviously the majority of people like it to be that way, considering everyone blaming that Anders in DA2 was more important to the story than Hawke was, which I think was good.

@Arcana HAH! That picture is AMAZING! I literally lol'd in front of the computer. I have to save that in my deviantart profile.

[k8ee]

CUDDLEBONE AH HAHAHAHAHA!

[Sialater]

BubbleSauce wrote...

*snip post I agree with 99%*

I've always wondered, what exactly is a "cuttlebone"? You know a term is obscure when not even the urban dictionary has got a definition for it yet.

Cuttlebone is a flat white semi-hard stone you put in bird's cages so they can sharpen/clean their beak.    What this has to do with turians, I don't know.

[BubbleSauce]

Chewin3 wrote..

And you don't seriously expect Garrus just to agree with you on how things should be. He says he should ponder about this, which he does, but gets lost during the way. He thinks that what he'll do in Omega is what you would do, but you can during his loyalty mission in ME2 get some interesint dialogs from him depending on what 'route' he took in ME1.

Yes, I do, when you pick the paragon route garrus acts like he's just had his enitre world turned upside down, which is another thing I disliked, garrus actually says that he's "never met anyone like you" you realise that  I'm just repeating what executor pallin should have been drilling into your head from the very start right? This is a police department, your not batman. Maybe it's just the fact that I grew up with a dad who was a sucker for authority, but you think someone would have taught him that by now, especially as he seemingly had a dad with a similar outlook, jesus my dad wasn't even a cop and I knew this stuff by time I was five.

Anyway enough about my childhood, garrus even said that he's going to rejoin c-sec (in my playthrough at least) what happened to that? No matter how unrealistic it is, garrus was genuinely affected by what I was telling him in my playthrough, It was like telling a bemused child where babies come from.

sialater wrote...

Cuttlebone is a flat white semi-hard stone you put in bird's cages so they can sharpen/clean their beak. What this has to do with turians, I don't know.

I'm guessing the more regular use is the cleaning part of that. Sharpen it's beak? Since when do people train budgies as attack animals? 

Modifié par BubbleSauce, 31 août 2011 - 04:08 .

[Sialater]

LOL, birds sharpen their beaks to better break open seed casings.

I think what really pissed him off about C-Sec was the Reaper cover up and the treatment Shepard received after her death. But he's not going to admit that. That would involve feelings and Garrus doesn't know how to deal with those any more than he knows what to do with "gray."

[Chewin]

BubbleSauce wrote...
Anyway enough about my childhood, garrus even said that he's going to rejoin c-sec (in my playthrough at least) what happened to that? No matter how unrealistic it is, garrus was genuinely affected by what I was telling him in my playthrough, It was like telling a bemused child where babies come from.

*sigh*

Since you seem to have forgotten what Garrus went through after ME1, I'll explain it to you then.

In the previous two years --after the events of the Battle of the Citadel-- Garrus lost his way of life. He returned to the Citadel and --in our case-- rejoined C-Sec. However, he grew increasingly disgusted with the bureaucracy of the Citadel, the one that where the Citadel Council downplayed and dismissed the Reaper threat as nothing but rumour. To know of the Repaers and be unable to do anything about it was frustrating enough for Garrus. After hearing of Shepard's death, he could no longer tolerate the Council's unwillingness to act. So he abandones C-Sec, again, and heads to Omega, determined to make a difference there.

In Omega he losts 10 people who got betrayed by one of his own. So what happens there? He becomes overwhelmed by anger and guilt, which makes him increasingly violent. So he forgets/throws away what the Paragon Shepard thought to him, and his morality code goes basically back  to zero. What I'm trying to say is, that he becomes lost after Sidonis betrayal in Omega, dispite what you thought him. And as you might remember, Joker describes Garrus' change, that he "worked that stick out of his butt", only to start "trying to beat guys to death with it".

And Garrus even half-jokes that he doesn't think he's a very good turian since he lacks the discipline expected of him. He feels that, in the face of the Reapers and the galactic extinction they bring, it is simply not worth blindly following bad orders.

Modifié par Chewin3, 31 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[BubbleSauce]

Chewin3 wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...
Anyway enough about my childhood, garrus even said that he's going to rejoin c-sec (in my playthrough at least) what happened to that? No matter how unrealistic it is, garrus was genuinely affected by what I was telling him in my playthrough, It was like telling a bemused child where babies come from.

*sigh*

Since you seem to have forgotten what Garrus went through after ME1, I'll explain it to you then.

In the previous two years --after the events of the Battle of the Citadel-- Garrus lost his way of life. He returned to the Citadel and --in our case-- rejoined C-Sec. However, he grew increasingly disgusted with the bureaucracy of the Citadel, the one that where the Citadel Council downplayed and dismissed the Reaper threat as nothing but rumour. To know of the Repaers and be unable to do anything about it was frustrating enough for Garrus. After hearing of Shepard's death, he could no longer tolerate the Council's unwillingness to act. So he abandones C-Sec, again, and heads to Omega, determined to make a difference there.

Oh get off of your high horse, I know the story of the bloody character, I played through both games recently and I'll thank you not to speak to me as if I haven't noticed the game even had sub-plots.

I see your point about him losing his sqaud members and I'll concede that that is the reason that you had to smack even more sense into him by the time ME2 came around. But I'm not referring to the events of ME2, I'm trying to argue that becoming archangel was friggin stupid, so tell me, how does the council downplaying the existance of the reapers lead to him going to omega and taking on mercenary factions? The council's "unwillingness to act" against the reapers has nothing to do with absolutly anything happening on omega. The reason he went to omega was because he was unsatisfied with how c-sec handled criminals, It didn't have anything to do with reapers, If it did, then he'd be ralleying a force, spreading word, or at least doing something that would help sway someone with some degree of power. Garrus is fully capable of doing these things especially considering the "impressive leasdership skills" that the original shadow broker picked up on.

[Sialater]

BubbleSauce wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...
Anyway enough about my childhood, garrus even said that he's going to rejoin c-sec (in my playthrough at least) what happened to that? No matter how unrealistic it is, garrus was genuinely affected by what I was telling him in my playthrough, It was like telling a bemused child where babies come from.

*sigh*

Since you seem to have forgotten what Garrus went through after ME1, I'll explain it to you then.

In the previous two years --after the events of the Battle of the Citadel-- Garrus lost his way of life. He returned to the Citadel and --in our case-- rejoined C-Sec. However, he grew increasingly disgusted with the bureaucracy of the Citadel, the one that where the Citadel Council downplayed and dismissed the Reaper threat as nothing but rumour. To know of the Repaers and be unable to do anything about it was frustrating enough for Garrus. After hearing of Shepard's death, he could no longer tolerate the Council's unwillingness to act. So he abandones C-Sec, again, and heads to Omega, determined to make a difference there.

Oh get off of your high horse, I know the story of the bloody character, I played through both games recently and I'll thank you not to speak to me as if I haven't noticed the game even had sub-plots.

I see your point about him losing his sqaud members and I'll concede that that is the reason that you had to smack even more sense into him by the time ME2 came around. But I'm not referring to the events of ME2, I'm trying to argue that becoming archangel was friggin stupid, so tell me, how does the council downplaying the existance of the reapers lead to him going to omega and taking on mercenary factions? The council's "unwillingness to act" against the reapers has nothing to do with absolutly anything happening on omega. The reason he went to omega was because he was unsatisfied with how c-sec handled criminals, It didn't have anything to do with reapers, If it did, then he'd be ralleying a force, spreading word, or at least doing something that would help sway someone with some degree of power. Garrus is fully capable of doing these things especially considering the "impressive leasdership skills" that the original shadow broker picked up on.

Actually, I think all the teammates split up after Shepard's death and decided how they'd rather spend their last days, knowing the Reaper threat was coming.  Liara and Wrex are the only ones who did anything vaguely productive.  

And yes, I think the Reapers, mentioned or not, did have an effect on how they decided (Joker and Chakwas included) they wanted to meet the end of the galaxy.  Garrus just wanted to take some bad guys with him, or maybe he was committing suicide by merc as some fic writers like to claim.

[BubbleSauce]

I can't see someone like garrus tucking away, and waiting for the world to collapse around him, and I doubt he became archangel, expecting to die at some point. Whether it be at the hands of the reapers, the blue suns, or otherwise.

[Sialater]

Then what other reason can you give for him to tilt at that windmill?

[BubbleSauce]

Sialater wrote...

Then what other reason can you give for him to tilt at that windmill?

Um, the thing that I've been partly explaining for about 4 posts now? He was upset about how c-sec handled criminals so he went and took the fight to them, I'm argueing about about how childish and stupid that is.

[Sialater]

BubbleSauce wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Then what other reason can you give for him to tilt at that windmill?

Um, the thing that I've been partly explaining for about 4 posts now? He was upset about how c-sec handled criminals so he went and took the fight to them, I'm argueing about about how childish and stupid that is.

Right.  And I'm arguing it's that plus a few other things.  Shepard's treatment, the lack of ANYONE doing ANYTHING about the Reapers, and then the shoddy treatment of criminals.  The suicide by merc is not my theory but it is one that others have proposed.  Not necessarily in that order.

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be just one reason.

Modifié par Sialater, 31 août 2011 - 08:57 .

[BubbleSauce]

Sialater wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Then what other reason can you give for him to tilt at that windmill?

Um, the thing that I've been partly explaining for about 4 posts now? He was upset about how c-sec handled criminals so he went and took the fight to them, I'm argueing about about how childish and stupid that is.

Right.  And I'm arguing it's that plus a few other things.  Shepard's treatment, the lack of ANYONE doing ANYTHING about the Reapers, and then the shoddy treatment of criminals.  The suicide by merc is not my theory but it is one that others have proposed.  Not necessarily in that order.

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be just one reason.

I see your point, my problem is, is that none of the other reasons really make all that sense to me, like I said, what does going to omega and becoming space batman have anything to do with the reapers and I really don't see how shepard dieing would lead to that either, if he wanted to honour what I taught him, he would have stayed at c-sec, or reapply for spectre training.

[Sialater]

BubbleSauce wrote...

Sialater wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Then what other reason can you give for him to tilt at that windmill?

Um, the thing that I've been partly explaining for about 4 posts now? He was upset about how c-sec handled criminals so he went and took the fight to them, I'm argueing about about how childish and stupid that is.

Right.  And I'm arguing it's that plus a few other things.  Shepard's treatment, the lack of ANYONE doing ANYTHING about the Reapers, and then the shoddy treatment of criminals.  The suicide by merc is not my theory but it is one that others have proposed.  Not necessarily in that order.

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be just one reason.

I see your point, my problem is, is that none of the other reasons really make all that sense to me, like I said, what does going to omega and becoming space batman have anything to do with the reapers and I really don't see how shepard dieing would lead to that either, if he wanted to honour what I taught him, he would have stayed at c-sec, or reapply for spectre training.

Because is his own individual who makes up his own mind?  He says he's a bad turian.  And he is.  He doesn't follow orders very well, he thinks more of himself as an individual and not as part of a whole as turians are encouraged to do.  And he tosses out advice given to him by his superiors when it suits him.  He's rash and impulsive and not a very logical individual.  The parallels to Dirty Harry are entirely accurate.

He's also, contrary to his detractors' accusations, not Shepard whipped and this is the biggest piece of evidence toward that.  If he truly were, you'd have to recruit him from C-Sec if you paragonned him.  He is allowed to make up his own mind away from Shepard's influence.  And, who's to say he didn't learn from your Shepard.  The entire hunt for Saren, Shepard made up her own rules and went by her own instincts, guided by her own morality.  This is the true lesson he learned.  Not what she preached at him.

[BubbleSauce]

Well, actually, I didn't think of it that way at all, so well said, in reference to your second paragraph.

But I digress, that's not my point, I'm arguing that what he did was not a sound decision it was childish of him to think that he could take down a massive crime syndicate with only a small team of soldiers, in fact it's incredibly unrealistic that all 3 of the main faction had to team up to take down one man.

[Sialater]

BubbleSauce wrote...

Well, actually, I didn't think of it that way at all, so well said, in reference to your second paragraph.

But I digress, that's not my point, I'm arguing that what he did was not a sound decision it was childish of him to think that he could take down a massive crime syndicate with only a small team of soldiers, in fact it's incredibly unrealistic that all 3 of the main faction had to team up to take down one man.

And what's wrong with being childish?  I actually classify it as quixotic.  Garrus is ME's patron saint of Lost Causes.  

I gave you several non-childish reasons that you don't like.  What's left is to accept that he's got impulse control and temper issues and does childish things no matter how reasonable we think he should be.

The real, true answer to your question can only really be found in Metagaming:  they wanted Garrus to be introduced in a badass fashion.  So they made him space Batman/Punisher.

[ArcanaLegacy]

 .....?
Whoa ppl, put down the talons. The whole "trusting garrus" topic was about knowing he has Sheps back as a friend on the battlefield and such. The whole thing about garrus' self-esteem and how he'll handle things independently is a completely other topic.

BubbleSauce wrote...
 The reason he went to omega was because he was unsatisfied with how c-sec handled criminals

Its more to it than that though. Yes, C-sec was part of the reason, but so was the council. Like you mentioned they arent willing to really act on whats really important. If Garrus didnt like c-sec, he'd just go anywhere else. He just ended up in the terminus systems because its outside the council's reach. Omega was the one place that obviously had  "CORRUPT" written all over it.

Chewin3 wrote...

BubbleSauce wrote...
Am I the only one that didn't feel this way at all? And not just for garrus, but for everyone, call me cynical, but I'm of the school of thought that trust is something that should be earned

And there's nothing wrong in thinking that way. You would probably be the last man standing with all of your money intact if you, I and Arcana ever went to Omega.

Are you serious? PFFFT You're making it sound like we're naive >.>  We're talking Omega here. That place is trouble all over. I wouldnt trust anyone on that freaking rock. There's kickbacks all over, and even Aria can't be fully trusted. She just hands us information. She doesnt get involved with anything. As much as I even love her character, I cant say that she's completely on Shepards side. She looks out for Omega....oh wait - Omega "IS" Aria. [honestly when she said that - I thought she was a "little" too full of herself.]

BubbleSauce wrote...
Wait a minute, are you telling me there are people who actually like the idea of mutant babies?

Yes. There are plenty. And its just...so.....wrong. *shudder*
Ive read fanfiction on it. Ugh. And theres obviously ppl who want Garrus and FemShep to bear children. Im alright with them at some point later in their lives to adopt, but mutant babies. No. Just no.

BubbleSauce wrote...
Garrus is fully capable of doing these things especially considering the "impressive leasdership skills" that the original shadow broker and cerberus picked up on.

Fixed.

BubbleSauce wrote...
it was childish of him to think that he could take down a massive crime syndicate with only a small team of soldiers

Surprisingly, it was working well if it wasnt for Sidonis - who turned the tides immensely.....

BubbleSauce wrote...
what does going to omega and becoming space batman have anything to do with the reapers-

Thats just it though. It doesnt. He says he was just fed up with all the crap about how things were being handled. He "figured" he'd "do more good on his own."

BubbleSauce wrote...
and I really don't see how shepard dieing would lead to that either, if he wanted to honour what I taught him, he would have stayed at c-sec, or reapply for spectre training.

IMO I think shepard dying did actually drive him to omega. It indirectly lead him there. With Shepard around, he knew she was out there fighting the good fight. He went back to c-sec and reapplied for spectre training [at least in my playthru he did]. He knew Shepard was taking out the "bad guys" bringing justice to the galaxy, defending it from any threat. Once the news about her death reached him, i figured he took it upon himself to actually do the same. Bring down "justice" to those who cant defend themselves. He knew the reaper threat was too big for him, and he knew he's no "Commander Shepard" [thus where the low self esteem comes in], so he did the next best thing. Shepard being a spectre - the council can't really say much as to her methods. Garrus isnt a spectre so anywhere he went would just land him in prison or something for what he had planned. Thats where the terminus systems came in and Omega was "the perfect fit" as he said to Shepard. There he could take out the corruption and not worry about the councils interference. Now the one thing I hate to admit was his judgement on the matter. Theres a fine line b/w enforcing the law, and BEING the law. Garrus seemed to blur that line quite alot. He had all the right intentions, he just didnt think of the consequences that would happen or take affect in the long run.

Discussing this, i remember some lines a paragon shep told Garrus that might have triggered this too.
"If he won't listen to reason, I'll kill him in a heartbeat, but only after we've caught him." <--in reference to saren.derp.
And remember the lines when confronting Dr.Saleon -
"You can't predict how people will act, Garrus.But you can control how you'll respond. In the end, that's what really matters."
Garrus couldve taken this to heart. Obviously Omega is full of thugs who wont listen to reason whatsoever. Since he cant control how this corrupt thugs will act, he took control of how he'll respond [apparently along with a sniper rifle]. So.....he mustve taken into consideration some things Shepard had said....just interpreted it in a way Shepard didnt mean. He didnt....whats the saying - "Read between the lines"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
whew......ok. PICTURE TIME!

[MoonEcho]

OK, sorry, I just hafta share...this.


I've been loling at this all night.

[Chewin]

Bubble, what part here are you not understanding? Garrus was lost. Of course him going to Omega was just wrong and stupid, but he thought that was the right thing to do. He thought it was better than staying in C-Sec, which felt like standing still. He's clearly a man of action and he was never probably any good at being in C-Sec, with paper work and all.