29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Seleya_LL]

I have the PC version of the ME saga, and I'll try out the ending mod, but I doubt that it will completely erase that foul aftertaste. Just manipulating the ending vids into rainbow-sunshine-bunny-happy-end slides wasn't enough. Not trying to be dramatic, but the best analogy I can come up with is that ME3's ending still feels like an old, well-healed wound that still hurts when you pinch it.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
[...]
Personally, I think it's because a) there's autodialogue everywhere and Renegade Shep got seriously defanged between ME2 and ME3.  What happened to all the yelling and punching and death threats?

The irony is that Renegade Shepard's mutation into a shadow of his / her former self offered more variety to me
At least in theory. During ME and ME2, I had no Renegade Shepard, just a bad-tempered Paragade who may have threatened the occasional idiot, but basically had a heart of gold. With ME3, most of the Renegade choices are tame enough that they don't make my teeth hurt.
Still, most of my Shepards will either never or probably not see ME3 due to romance handling and ending-induced lack of motivation.

Modifié par Seleya_LL, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:30 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Seleya_LL wrote...
With ME3, most of the Renegade choices are tame enough that they don't make my teeth hurt.

That's what happened with my Paragade; she picked up a lot of Renegade points in ME3 due to crankiness.  But I loved taking the racist, inappropriate, whackjob dialogue options and interrupts with my Renegon Shep (who was still a decent person, just with poor social graces), and there are precious few of those in ME3.  At least I still get to yell at Ashley.  That counts for something.

As for the ending, I understand if the mod doesn't take away the bitterness.  For me, it does, but I have a habit of modding my games pretty heavily, and I generally go with the attitude of "If it happened in my game, that's what happened."  

[Seleya_LL]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Seleya_LL wrote...
With ME3, most of the Renegade choices are tame enough that they don't make my teeth hurt.

That's what happened with my Paragade; she picked up a lot of Renegade points in ME3 due to crankiness.  But I loved taking the racist, inappropriate, whackjob dialogue options and interrupts with my Renegon Shep (who was still a decent person, just with poor social graces), and there are precious few of those in ME3.  At least I still get to yell at Ashley.  That counts for something.

As for the ending, I understand if the mod doesn't take away the bitterness.  For me, it does, but I have a habit of modding my games pretty heavily, and I generally go with the attitude of "If it happened in my game, that's what happened."  

I see. "Crankiness" would be a good diagnosis for what happened to my paragons at certain points of the story That renegade interrupt for a certain Quarian admiral was very nice.

Modding - yeah, I hope so. For the TES games, it worked for me as well. The difference is that I wasn't attached to the characters before, but became attached to them after modding (i.e. basically 'importing' a fanfiction and rewriting most of the major storylines). 
Suppose I'll see it if I try it. And if it doesn't work, there's still fanfiction.

[Karrie788]

Same for my Paragade, she ended up a Renegon because those Renegade choices fit her so well. Roleplaying my actual Renegon was a little more difficult though. It's not easy to roleplay a really cold person in ME3.
As for the ending, I'm at peace with it, although I can't say I look forward to the missions after Rannoch when I play.
I love Control (Shep's speech is so badass) and Destroy, and I'm still conflicted with the MEHEM. It's great, of course, but maybe a little too happy. The idea of having to sacrifice something no matter what you did was interesting. On the other hand, reunion!

It looks like we're not going back to the ME3 forums, Chris Priestly closed them for good, apparently.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Karrie788 wrote...
It looks like we're not going back to the ME3 forums, Chris Priestly closed them for good, apparently.

Ah, I see.  His post has been edited.  Well, hopefully they won't catch onto us all hiding out here.  If anyone wants to help spread the word, +1 awesome to you.

As for MEHEM, I get what you're saying about an ending being too happy, but I think it's easier to work around one that's a little too happy as opposed to one that's WTF.  I actually had no problem with the sacrifices in Destroy--I just wanted the stupid Starbrat out of the picture.  Fob kind of cobbled all the request together into MEHEM, and I can understand why.

But IMO it's still so worth it for Garrus reunion 

[Karrie788]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Ah, I see.  His post has been edited.  Well, hopefully they won't catch onto us all hiding out here.  If anyone wants to help spread the word, +1 awesome to you.

As for MEHEM, I get what you're saying about an ending being too happy, but I think it's easier to work around one that's a little too happy as opposed to one that's WTF.  I actually had no problem with the sacrifices in Destroy--I just wanted the stupid Starbrat out of the picture.  Fob kind of cobbled all the request together into MEHEM, and I can understand why.

But IMO it's still so worth it for Garrus reunion 

Oh it's worth it. It'd be even more worth it if poor Garrus didn't look so ridiculous at the end.
And (I can't believe I'm saying this) I'm headcanoning the Geths' death. You're right when you say the biggest problem with the ending was that stupid kid. If only, at LEAST, they had given him a creepy booming Reaper voice instead of... that appearance.
But Control was so badass, and it fit Jane. I'm going to miss it. Kinda.

[EnvyTB075]

Way I see it, control can distinguish between Reapers and all other AI's, so why can't destroy?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Karrie788 wrote...
Oh it's worth it. It'd be even more worth it if poor Garrus didn't look so ridiculous at the end.

According to Fob, the Garrus animation problem has been fixed.  Clipping is still vexing him, but that's less of a problem.  He's also found a way to un-meatgrinder Shep.  I am slightly in love with that dude.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Way I see it, control can distinguish between Reapers and all other AI's, so why can't destroy?

In-universe, none.  Meta, so that there's some downside to Destroy to prevent everyone from picking it.  

Personally, I explain it this way in high-EMS, MEHEM destroy--EDI dies, but the geth are damaged rather than destroyed.  The Crucible in MEHEM targets all Reaper tech--nanites, software, hardware, everything.  It demolishes the Reapers and all husks, but also does collateral damage to EDI and the geth given their Reaper upgrades.  The geth were sentient AI before getting the Reaper code upgrades.  They're sort of dormant after the Crucible is fired for months, maybe years, but they're just reestablishing the connections that allow them to form sentience.  Given time, and maybe some help, they can recover something like their pre-ME3 state.  No Reaper upgrades, but they still have Legion's personality imprint.

But EDI was built using significant Reaper hardware, barely more than a semi-conscious VI until she was added to salvage from Sovereign.  She's completely, irreversably gone.  It definitely is more on the happy side, but I have a lot of trouble buying that the Crucible simply fries all synthetics in one ending (but not the others) for OMGTHEGRIMDARK.  It has to at least make a modicum of sense.

Also, while I can live with the EC version of destroy, I will happily take a version that makes it so that Legion's sacrifice for the geth was not in vain.  I love that robot so much.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 15 novembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[Karrie788]

Oh it's been fixed ? I'll have to check that.

I really don't know if I should headcanon the Geths' death or not now. But from a narrative point of view, yes, it doesn't make sense that they all die. What about the VIs, the synthetic implants on organics?
I think EDI's a goner for the reasons you stated; besides it gives her a really tragic story from the VI on Luna to the doomed AI on the Normandy. She's been struggling for so long to achieve sentience (is that the word?), only to be sacrificed for the war. Kinda heartbreaking and I like tragic characters (reason why I like Anders so much in DA).
I think there would be more people who would pick Destroy if *only* EDI died, and not all synthetics. That wouldn't be "genocide".

Modifié par Karrie788, 15 novembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[Amirit]

Almost an offtopic but in case someone did not see yet:
https://twitter.com/...499045423652864

John ‏@johncash19
@PatrickWeekes So do Turian females have breasts?

PatrickWeekes
‏No. They do, however, have the forward-angled plate, just like turian men do. That's what people are seeing.

Modifié par Amirit, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[Karrie788]

Amirit wrote...

Almost an offtopic but in case someone did not see yet:
https://twitter.com/...499045423652864

John ‏@johncash19
@PatrickWeekes So do Turian females have breasts?

PatrickWeekes
‏No. They do, however, have the forward-angled plate, just like turian men do. That's what people are seeing.

Thank you for the information!!

I thought as much, but Nyreen's pictures were kinda confusing.

[Seleya_LL]

Karrie788 wrote...
[...]
Kinda heartbreaking and I like tragic characters (reason why I like Anders so much in DA).

I think there would be more people who would pick Destroy if *only* EDI died, and not all synthetics. That wouldn't be "genocide".

You are probably correct on the second. About the first we'll never agree, since apparently my tolerance for sickening-sweet happy-end stuff is way above human average, while the inverse is true for tragedy
Plus, I liked Justice and disliked Anders in Awakening. Not a good combination for DA2.

But if you believe that MEHEM is the 'worst' possible dose of fluff: Should I find enough time and brain cells left to really look into ME modding, then the first thing on my change list is Kal's 'death report', the second Thane's death and the third Anderson's. Feeling better about the current mod? 

[Karrie788]

Seleya_LL wrote...

But if you believe that MEHEM is the 'worst' possible dose of fluff: Should I find enough time and brain cells left to really look into ME modding, then the first thing on my change list is Kal's 'death report', the second Thane's death and the third Anderson's. Feeling better about the current mod? 

I don't. I don't even believe MEHEM is super happy. Millions of people still died. Don't get me wrong, I like MEHEM a lot. I'm just conflicted because I love having tragic elements in my games and I thought EDI's story was a fine example of that. Plus, Control was so badass I have to say how much badass I think it is three times in a row.
But I totally understand that you disagree with me on that. To each their own!
Tragedy worked wonderfully well in DA:O (and to an extent, in DA2. I love the irony of the ending). Maybe I have a higher tolerance to tragedy than most, since I killed off my favourite character in my "canon" playthrough, and didn't regret it at all. It fit perfectly to the story I felt I was telling.

About Kal, Thane and Anderson, I don't know. I've stated in other threads that I think if Bioware wanted the players to feel sad about leaving Earth, they should have killed off Anderson right away instead of a random kid. THAT would have hit me hard, and I would have felt just as sad as Shepard. Violins and piano music isn't enough to get me emotional, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one..
As for Kal, totally unecessary death. If the issue was that they couldn't bring the voice actor back, they could have had him send an email to Shepard informing them of his status. Not die over an email. (And what about Emily Wong!)
And Thane... again, I don't know. Again, tragic character. Loved his storyline. But his death was insulting. Who shoots an assassin at gunpoint, misses him, only to get stabbed and bleed to death!! Besides, all that teasing about finding a cure for Thane, only to lead him to an unavoidable death? I know Bioware somehow forgot he was a LI for FemShep, but it really left a sour taste in my mouth - and that's no excuse anyway. I had a Shep romancing him and she wasn't pleased (and if that wasn't enough, that was also the game in which Garrus had died).
The only "flawless" death scene in ME3 for me was Mordin's. Just. Perfect.

TL;DR: By all means, if you find the time, energy and will, get to modding. More modding can never be a bad thing.

Modifié par Karrie788, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[coldwetn0se]

Hey Garrus fans. I am one of the writers for the Cosmic Love blog, and we are looking for some screenies. Like....right now! LOL In particular, we are looking for ANY screenshots of BroShep that has a more "actiony" vibe (doesn't need to be straight up action, a decent cutscene pic would do as well). I know this is last minute, but we have been running a special "sexism" week theme, and our normal Screenshot! Thursday is just going to show random screenies of FemShep and BroShep in action. We have lots of FemSheps to work with, but very few BroSheps. So, if any of you are around, and would like to share, feel free to post links either here or PM me. Thanks guys!

Oh....and "on topic": GARRUS RULES!

[Twilight_Princess]

Amirit wrote...

Almost an offtopic but in case someone did not see yet:
https://twitter.com/...499045423652864

John ‏@johncash19
@PatrickWeekes So do Turian females have breasts?

PatrickWeekes
‏No. They do, however, have the forward-angled plate, just like turian men do. That's what people are seeing.

YAY! No turian ******!
 
Now I can be happy about the presence of a female turian again.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Karrie788 wrote...
About Kal, Thane and Anderson, I don't know. I've stated in other threads that I think if Bioware wanted the players to feel sad about leaving Earth, they should have killed off Anderson right away instead of a random kid. THAT would have hit me hard, and I would have felt just as sad as Shepard. Violins and piano music isn't enough to get me emotional, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one..

This.  I much preferred in DAO/DA2 and other older BioWare games where the game set up an emotional situation, then let the PLAYER decide how s/he and the protagonist felt.  For example, with the City Elf origin in DA:O, you had a very emotionally wrought situation involving the rape of your cousin and death of your fiance.  It's meant to have an impact, but WHAT that impact is can be up to the player.  Fear, anger, grief, whatever.

As opposed to ME3 which had moments where it was like, "ARE YOU SAD NOW YOU SHOULD BE SAD BE SAAAAAAAAD!"  And I can be a bit of a contrary player, tabletop or CRPG, so if I get the sense that the game is trying real hard to shove something down my throat, I tend to instantly dislike it.  Case in point: Priority: Thessia.

[EnvyTB075]

Despite what Weekes says (and do know i do consider him one of the most trustworthy people in BW), i still see round bumps, thats how light falls upon a circular object. So i'm still not convinced, but the fact that they've come out and stated they're not boobs in function puts me at ease a little bit.

However more importantly this brings into question the structure of a male Turian as well, since as he said they're pretty much the same, I personally don't see how Civvie Garrus and Kasumi hooded Nyreen have the same bodily structure.

Also not a fan of her neck/skull structure, looks far too human for my liking, though i'm not put off by the General Grievous mask looking faceplates, thats the kind of difference i expected. Also not a fan of her extended mandible structure, though hopefully that can be put down to genetic anomaly, much like Saren.

[Seleya_LL]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
[...]
I much preferred in DAO/DA2 and other older BioWare games where the game set up an emotional situation, then let the PLAYER decide how s/he and the protagonist felt.  For example, with the City Elf origin in DA:O, you had a very emotionally wrought situation involving the rape of your cousin and death of your fiance.  It's meant to have an impact, but WHAT that impact is can be up to the player.  Fear, anger, grief, whatever.
[...]

I may remember it wrong, but I never got the feeling of such extended gloom and doom from the older titles. BG or KotOR were not all sunshine and bunnies, but usually the player could do something about it. At least there were no "Here, look at that, will you be sad already??" moments, like Thessia or the kid on Earth - or the City Elf origin or Ostagar in DA:O. These DA:O moments just don't work right for me, perhaps because they come so early in the game - the player is told that there is a relationship to these characters (family / other Wardens), but I had yet to 'feel' it.

@Karrie: Yeah, the 'change wish list' from above are mainly the 'stupid' deaths (ok, maybe not Anderson) that got on my nerve for that reason. I wouldn't change Mordin's or Legion's even if I could, but the probability that I start modding is very low anyway.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Seleya_LL wrote...

I may remember it wrong, but I never got the feeling of such extended gloom and doom from the older titles. BG or KotOR were not all sunshine and bunnies, but usually the player could do something about it. At least there were no "Here, look at that, will you be sad already??" moments, like Thessia or the kid on Earth - or the City Elf origin or Ostagar in DA:O. These DA:O moments just don't work right for me, perhaps because they come so early in the game - the player is told that there is a relationship to these characters (family / other Wardens), but I had yet to 'feel' it.

KOTOR not so much, but BG2 did have very dark segments in Spellhold and the Underdark.  I'd say Irenicus sucking out your soul makes for a pretty bad day.  As does actually dying in Jade Empire.  The difference was that the game didn't mandate that you be sad or messed up or whatever,  The PC's reaction was up to you.

In ME3, Shepard could only express sadness (and comically exaggerated at that) over Thessia.  Was my Shepard who regularly yelled at the asari for three years sad?  Nope, but I didn't have the option to play it that way.

[Karrie788]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

KOTOR not so much, but BG2 did have very dark segments in Spellhold and the Underdark.  I'd say Irenicus sucking out your soul makes for a pretty bad day.  As does actually dying in Jade Empire.  The difference was that the game didn't mandate that you be sad or messed up or whatever,  The PC's reaction was up to you.

In ME3, Shepard could only express sadness (and comically exaggerated at that) over Thessia.  Was my Shepard who regularly yelled at the asari for three years sad?  Nope, but I didn't have the option to play it that way.

Charname's dream about her soul getting torn out is one of my favourite video game moments of all times, but looking back, yes, it was dark. That and Yoshi's betrayal... Chapter 4 and 5 were incredible.

Exactly, Thessia was the perfect example for the kind of forced drama that I really disliked in the game. Jane was sad, so it didn't bother me. Lexane? She would have been upset, sure, but she would have yelled. Especially at the Asari councillor. I think I've only seen her act more OOC in the games once.

... actually, you're right, it WAS kinda comical.

@Seleya: Agreed on Mordin. I like the emotional weight of Legion's death, but I'm still pissed that his death was caused by error 404.

Modifié par Karrie788, 16 novembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[giftfish]

Hey guys!

The final installment of our 3-part Focus Friday is out on the Romance DLC blog (see sig). It has been covering the Evolution of LIs in Mass Effect. It's also our final post in our special theme week on sexism and gender differences in gaming.

Check it out

[Seleya_LL]

Karrie788 wrote...
[...]
@Seleya: Agreed on Mordin. I like the emotional weight of Legion's death, but I'm still pissed that his death was caused by error 404.

Please tell me there's no actual number given as error code for self-sacrifice in any translation of ME3...

Fully agreed, BG's Spellhold was incredible in terms of atmosphere. And dark and gloomy, sure, perhaps I didn't phrase that well. But any Renegade Bhaalspawn could, after enduring both physical and psychological torture, come out of the most dreadful nightmare and yell "I have killed your little monster, Irenicus, and now I am going to cut you into pieces!!!", while Renegade Shepard is (depending on how you roleplay him / her) just ridiculous after Thessia. For me, the perceived difference is the offer of action vs inaction - the Bhaalspawn jumps back to his / her feet to kick back, while Shepard has that period of forced depression, on top of the "whoa, my character is not in character" problem. Suppose that's why I didn't perceive the BG chapters as so gloomy, while they were surely full of gloom in every sense of the word.

I'd probably see it differently if Irenicus had really killed Imoen. That would have been a character I cared about, in contrast to Noname Boy, or to a lesser extend Duncan, Shianni, a planet of nameless Asari or the like.

Modifié par Seleya_LL, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Karrie788]

Seleya_LL wrote...

Please tell me there's no actual number given as error code for self-sacrifice in any translation of ME3...

There isn't. I'm just being silly.

You know, I might sound crazy saying this, but I also would have liked an option *not* to be Garrus' BFF. When the only way for you to not be BFF with a character in a RPG is to either kill them off or just ignore them completely, it kinda disturbs me. I would have liked to earn his friendship (or his love) as a roleplayer.
But I guess it couldn't be like Dragon Age and its (IMO) terrific approval/disapproval system, and overall Mass Effect was fantastic despite my complaints.

Poor Imoen had a terrible voice in the French version. I only started tolerating her and eventually liking her when I played the game in English.

@giftfish: I absolutely love what you guys are doing. Thanks for the updates, I've found myself enjoying pretty much every single post you guys have made. Keep up the good work!

Modifié par Karrie788, 16 novembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Seleya_LL wrote...
For me, the perceived difference is the offer of action vs inaction - the Bhaalspawn jumps back to his / her feet to kick back, while Shepard has that period of forced depression, on top of the "whoa, my character is not in character" problem. Suppose that's why I didn't perceive the BG chapters as so gloomy, while they were surely full of gloom in every sense of the word.

That makes sense.  Most protagonists are pretty Determinator, and there should ALWAYS be more than one option for how the protagonist reacts to a dramatic situation.  I'd be equally irritated if after Thessia, you could only play a Shep who entirely shrugged it off and didn't care.  (Just because I as a player thought the asari deserved their damn fate doesn't mean all of my protagonists will.)

Karrie788 wrote...
You know, I might sound crazy saying this, but I also would have liked an option *not* to be Garrus' BFF. When the only way for you to not be BFF with a character in a RPG is to either kill them off or just ignore them completely, it kinda disturbs me. I would have liked to earn his friendship (or his love) as a roleplayer.

I agree, and this is one of the few complaints I've heard about Garrus, a relatively consistent one at that.  It's a less egregious version of Liara.  There's no getting around the fact that plot events will happen more-or-less the same to all PCs, but the PC as an individual, his/her personality, reactions to the world, thoughts, beliefs, and relationships should be more under player control.  BioWare are usually masters of the illusion of choice--ME3 just happens to be a game where they slipped up, and the tracks are painfullly obvious.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 17 novembre 2012 - 07:20 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

First picture from devArt: awesome vigilante named Garrus.



Second picture from devArt: adorable puppy named after Garrus :3

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 18 novembre 2012 - 09:34 .