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[Nilfalasiel]

Alexine wrote...

Give in to temptation. He is calibrating the apple.

Fixed

Calibrated apple = even less chance to resist

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I agree that it is probably sensationalist advertising. Bioware advertising is not for hardcore fans so it usually just freaks us out or confuses us. That's why I mostly try not to take it too seriously.

As for rocky parts to Garrus' relationship, I may be in the minority but I would love that. I like a pretty hefty amount of angst so long as it doesn't get soapy and so long as it gets to be resolved in pretty good manner. I think old LI showing up could definitely cause some angst especially considering how Garrus seems really surprised that you pick him over the other potential LIs. I think it was ciaweth who said that Garrus would probably be surprised again if you keep him over your old LI. I could see some concern on his part about that. Granted Garrus is really private so I don't see him being confrontational.

Also, I can see him finally snapping if you have been flip-flopping on him. Say you renegade him in ME1 and ME2 and then you go all paragon in ME3. I could see him getting worked up over that or the opposite scenario as well.

If you meet his father, that definitely has the potential to cause angst or a rocky patch.

So does any kind of major anti-human or anti-turian sentiment from people disapproving of your relationship with him. I don't think he would care about getting his own feelings hurt, but I could see him being somewhat concerned about your reputation or about your relationship derailing the mission. If he thought harm to your reputation was making people not take you seriously and therefore be less effective at your job, I think it would bother him.

These are some great points. I think they'd provide some drama or troubles for the romance that don't stray into soap opera or overdramatic territory. They also seem very plausible and not fabricated out of thin air.

I actually "renegaded" Garrus both times, so it's interesting to see how he turns up in ME3. No telling whether I will paragon or renegade him again, if there is an option. Though, it may be time instead, in ME3, to just have Garrus respond to how you mentored him instead of steering him again.

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

@ Collider
I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours.

Yeah, except that only works if you do make a decision that's contrary to what you've been doing thus far: if you've been mostly Paragon and make an overtly Renegade choice, or the other way around.

If Shepard remains consistent, then there's no call for Garrus being their moral compass or saving them from themselves.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

@ Collider
I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours.

That's a fantastic idea. It's definitely a plausible alternative to the "betrayal" stuff. I would like, if Garrus feels that Shepard isn't acting like herself, Garrus being concerned and voicing his opinion against certain actions.

[Collider]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

@ Collider
I think so too. I think we will see some ultimate consequence where you can no longer sway Garrus one way or another. I don't really buy the "Garrus as betrayer" thing so many people do, but I think there is some potential in that idea. In certain circumstances I could see him reacting like Carth does to a Dark Side romanced Revan in KotoR. Carth doesn't really betray you, but he freaks and tries to save you from yourself. Given the devs have said ME3 has room for more variance since nothing has to be imported afterwards I think it is possible we might be able to see some more overtly sinister choices in ME3. If Garrus has been pushed very strongly paragon or renegade and then you go back on that in ME3, I could see him being concerned and trying to do something about it. Trying to save you from yourself as it were. It would make an interesting and fitting culmination to his character arc. We have always been his moral compass. Maybe now it's time for him to become ours.

Yeah, except that only works if you do make a decision that's contrary to what you've been doing thus far: if you've been mostly Paragon and make an overtly Renegade choice, or the other way around.

If Shepard remains consistent, then there's no call for Garrus being their moral compass or saving them from themselves.

Well, I don't know. My Shepard is mostly Paragon, but has done some renegade decision. I usually prefer to play more mixed alignment Shepards. And I "renegaded" Garrus (technically, it's just agreeing with him on things, but all the same).

So, I might see my Shepard doing a "paragon" action and Garrus saying perhaps, he doesn't deserve to live, or we can't be bogged down by the rules. I'd love to see something like that happen - so we get a sense that mentoring Garrus really did something.

[Christmas Ape]

I get the feeling the Thane "I don't feel anything" is the best they could cram his "My body is a weapon, my mind is my own, I am at peace with my death" philosophy into a short trailer.

[Collider]

I wonder what the end game choice of ME3 will be.

[Collider]

ME2 had a small amount of it, too, if I remember correctly. If you paragon Garrus in ME1, he says something like that he thinks Shepard may not approve of what he wants to do with sid, for example. Also, when my Shepard agreed with Garrus about Sidonis, Garrus said something like "I learn from the best."

So I think they could implement something like that in ME3, but on a larger scale.

edit: lol typo

Modifié par Collider, 26 juillet 2010 - 11:51 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Unless a decision finally appears where Garrus' opinion is unshakable regardless of what you have done with him.  I don't really want to get back on the immutable quality debate but I do think he has some.  I could see something like this happening for certain choices.  After all, Carth doesn't always freak on you.  He only freaks if you go Dark Side.  Light Side Revan never encounters freak out Carth.  So I think "possible freak out Garrus in some circumstances" is plausible.

But that's exactly what I'm saying: it won't always happen. So it won't work as a conclusion to Garrus' story arc for all Shepards. I can't really think of any situation where Garrus would freak out on Shepard the way Alistair does if you spare Loghain, unless it's something completely outrageous like murdering a roomful of hostages for no good reason or something. He might not always agree with what Shepard does, but trusting that she/he knows best will still take him a long way. Garrus does have a tendency to put the goal of the mission first, so as long as Shepard doesn't engage in gratuitous murder, she/he can always justify what she/he does by saying it was for the good of the mission.

Then again, considering ME2 Garrus mysteriously became averse to collateral damage, even if Renegaded in ME1, maybe he would also pipe up if something Shepard does results in too many civilian victims. But still, it would have to be something pretty damn huge and have a measure of the unnecessary about it.  

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 26 juillet 2010 - 11:56 .

[Christmas Ape]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Then again, considering ME2 Garrus mysteriously became averse to collateral damage, even if Renegaded in ME1, maybe he would also pipe up if something Shepard does results in too many civilian victims. But still, it would have to be something pretty damn huge and have a measure of the unnecessary about it.

I'm guessing you mean Saleon's hostages? I get the impression Garrus considered them either already dead or better off dead, given Saleon's predilections.

[Collider]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Then again, considering ME2 Garrus mysteriously became averse to collateral damage, even if Renegaded in ME1, maybe he would also pipe up if something Shepard does results in too many civilian victims. But still, it would have to be something pretty damn huge and have a measure of the unnecessary about it.

I'm guessing you mean Saleon's hostages? I get the impression Garrus considered them either already dead or better off dead, given Saleon's predilections.

Agreed.

[Nilfalasiel]

Christmas Ape wrote...

I'm guessing you mean Saleon's hostages? I get the impression Garrus considered them either already dead or better off dead, given Saleon's predilections.

Saleon's hostages and the collateral damage to the Citadel. Remember that his order to blow up Saleon's ship was also revoked because it was too close to the Citadel and would've caused casualties, either from the explosion or from the debris, I guess.

[Collider]

Either way, Garrus should change depending on how you mentored him. Although, technically the "renegading" are mostly just Shepard just agreeing with him. At least that's how I played my Shepard.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

I'm guessing you mean Saleon's hostages? I get the impression Garrus considered them either already dead or better off dead, given Saleon's predilections.

Saleon's hostages and the collateral damage to the Citadel. Remember that his order to blow up Saleon's ship was also revoked because it was too close to the Citadel and would've caused casualties, either from the explosion or from the debris, I guess.

I agree with Nil here.  I think Garrus really softens on collateral damage in ME2.  He seems to have more regard for trying to help random helpless people along the side of the road and I think he is a little less trigger happy.

I imagine this is because he got to see the plight the people of Omega face under the criminal gangs. Suddenly those suffering under crimes are more in his face.

[Collider]

One of the things that gives me great hope for Garrus returning in ME3 is how ME2 was. The game pretty much assumes that Garrus was & is your best bud.

Modifié par Collider, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:18 .

[Collider]

Garrus definitely has a lot of cross appeal. For dudes, he's your bro, for quite a few gals he's their LI (if not, probably their bro). I'd like to see him in a CG trailer for ME3. That would get me fired up for the game, certainly.



For my part, Garrus is definitely among the few my Shepard would really ever confide in. It's fitting since we get to talk about the suicide mission with Garrus, like they're two of a kind.