29107 réponses à ce sujet

[J4N3_M3]

good morning everyone....*hands coffee and cookies*

[Nilfalasiel]

Christmas Ape wrote...

EDIT: And I'm like 90% sure that's a tango.

Yep, that's a tango alright. At least the first pic is. The second one is a bit weird for a tango move. But it's definitely not a waltz. Waltzes look a LOT less sexy (you basically twirl around in a circle to a 1-2-3 rhythm).

Concerning that poll, I'm also surprised at how Kaidan scored. You'd think that older people would be more put off by his hissy fit on Horizon (because that borders on the childish and isn't even that much in character for him). But I guess he did give off a more mature vibe in ME1. I'm guessing it also has to do with the fact that there are only two human male LIs, and he's by far the more eligible of the two. So people who are physically squicked by aliens just default to him.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 08:04 .

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I hate to say it but I think Garrus is a shooter guy. I so see him sniping Halo kiddies.  I think he'd go for strategy games as well.

Given his leadership and strategy skills, I think he'd go for tactical shooters like Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six (or whatever other games are like that).

[Collider]

Concerning that poll, I'm also surprised at how Kaidan scored. You'd think that older people would be more put off by his hissy fit on Horizon (because that borders on the childish and isn't even that much in character for him). But I guess he did give off a more mature vibe in ME1. I'm guessing it also has to do with the fact that there are only two human male LIs, and he's by far the more eligible of the two. So people who are physically squicked by aliens just default to him.

I think some of Kaidan love is in response to the ME2 male LIs. At least - so far as it appears. From what I understand, Kaidan was never this popular until ME2 came out. Some of them looked at the ME2 male LIs and went "I'm supposed to like them?" Garrus and Thane are both aliens, and Jacob is not that popular.



Generally speaking, I think part of the reason why Kaidan fans tend to be older is because Kaidan himself is older. In ME1 at least, he's quite mature (though he has boyish moments) and he acts his age at least somewhat. Some of people in the thread feel that Garrus acts a bit too young for them.

[Collider]

ciaweth wrote...

kglaser wrote...
I hope I don't screw it up real good.

Don't worry, if you screw it up for ME3, you can always replay the whole dang thing from ME1 to ME3 just to get it perfect.  <.<

Going to do something like that myself. Replay ME1 and ME2 when the release of ME3 draws near and make sure the playthroughs are perfect.

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

I think some of Kaidan love is in response to the ME2 male LIs. At least - so far as it appears. From what I understand, Kaidan was never this popular until ME2 came out. Some of them looked at the ME2 male LIs and went "I'm supposed to like them?" Garrus and Thane are both aliens, and Jacob is not that popular.

Generally speaking, I think part of the reason why Kaidan fans tend to be older is because Kaidan himself is older. In ME1 at least, he's quite mature (though he has boyish moments) and he acts his age at least somewhat. Some of people in the thread feel that Garrus acts a bit too young for them.

I agree that in ME1, Kaidan did feel more mature. But that's why I'm even more surprised that people like him more after ME2. Because Horizon was NOT a mature reaction. I wouldn't expect a reasonable man of 34 to react like that, especially with someone he used to trust almost implicitly. He didn't even give Shep a chance to explain her/himself. So, if only just for that, I liked him better in ME1. Ashley reacting like that surprises me far less...Which makes me wonder...Did the developers simply decide that, since there are more male players, Ashley would usually be the one left alive in ME1? So they tailored the scene to Ashley, then thought "yeah, it'll work for Kaidan too, no big deal, and it's not like that many people will see it anyway."

As for Garrus acting young, he definitely did in ME1. But he definitely felt older in ME2, which is why I'd expect him to have more of an equal footing with Kaidan in that respect after ME2.

But yeah, like you said, straight women who aren't into aliens don't really have much choice...it's either him or Jacob. And I'm sure a lot of people would rather eat raw snails than romance Jacob.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 08:28 .

[Collider]

I agree that in ME1, Kaidan did feel more mature. But that's why I'm even more surprised that people like him more after ME2. Because Horizon was NOT a mature reaction. I wouldn't expect a reasonable man of 34 to react like that, especially with someone he used to trust almost implicitly. He didn't even give Shep a chance to explain her/himself. So, if only just for that, I liked him better in ME1.

Well I'd also say that the younger fans of ME also tend to be the least squicked out by romancing aliens. I've seen one "older" poster in this forum compare the alien romances to bestiality. So for many of them ("older" forumgoers), right off the bat, romancing Garrus or Thane are not part of the picture. As you said, Jacob isn't really that popular, so Kaidan it is for them.

I may be able to say that younger people often challenge traditions while older people are more likely to stick with them. A good indication of this can be seen by looking at the cultural histories of just about any western country.

Ashley reacting like that surprises me far less...Which makes me wonder...Did the developers simply decide that, since there are probably more male players, Ashley would usually be the one left alive in ME1? So they tailored the scene to Ashley, then thought "yeah, it'll work for Kaidan too, no big deal, and it's not like that many people will see it anyway."

There's certainly evidence of them doing something like that. Take the scene at the beginning of the game. Kaidan and Liara are wearing Ashley's trademark phoenix armor. That to me seems an indication that they based the scene around Ashley and then just model switched for other people.

From what I hear, they have literally the exact same lines when they freak before the Normandy lands on Ilos. I could see Ashley freaking out, but it felt like Kaidan was out of character there. The fates of Ashley and Kaidan are pretty similar, they are linked. It seems though that they are placing higher priority on Ashley.

As for Garrus acting young, he definitely did in ME1. But he definitely felt older in ME2, which is why I'd expect him to have more of an equal footing with Kaidan in that respect after ME2.

Garrus did feel older, but I guess that some people (in this case, some Kaidan fans) felt that he still have a youthful feel to him or at the very least has not yet matched Kaidan's perceived age/maturity.

Modifié par Collider, 27 juillet 2010 - 08:44 .

[Alexine]

When I first saw the scene at the beginning of ME1, I saw him wearing the phoenix armour. What?

But Liara does wear unique armour, just that it's the same colour as the phoenix armour. Makes me want to do a run of ME1 with everyone wearing phoenix armour XD

I think the reason why Kaidan and Ashley were thrown in together, because only one can live, so it's an easy cop out for BW to cut down on that and focus more upon other features of the game .

[Twilight_Princess]

There seemed to be a lot of cut n paste in ME2 which is just one of its small flaws. I was surprised kaiden actually threw a hissy fit , his reaction should have been a lot calmer then it was, really they should have said "I trust you shepard but I can't join you , not yet" or something like that , preferably because they were needed elsewhere or that they needed time to think it over because they can't instantly  trust cerberus.  Femshep got the worst of it though, the one sided gayness, the weird animations, oi vey .

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

Well I'd also say that the younger fans of ME also tend to be the least squicked out by romancing aliens. I've seen one "older" poster in this forum compare the alien romances to bestiality. So for many of them ("older" forumgoers), right off the bat, romancing Garrus or Thane are not part of the picture. As you said, Jacob isn't really that popular, so Kaidan it is for them.

Yeah, there is that too. I was probably just assuming that even the previous generation grew up with Star Trek and would thus be a little less weirded out by aliens. But I guess it takes more time than that.

And yeah, I've seen the bestiality argument thrown around quite often, and not just from older people. While I understand that xenophilia might not be everyone's cup of tea, it's no reason to be amalgamating the two.

There's certainly evidence of them doing something like that. Take the scene at the beginning of the game. Kaidan and Liara are wearing Ashley's trademark phoenix armor. That to me seems an indication that they based the scene around Ashley and then just model switched for other people.

From what I hear, they have literally the exact same lines when they freak before the Normandy lands on Ilos. I could see Ashley freaking out, but it felt like Kaidan was out of character there. The fates of Ashley and Kaidan are pretty similar, they are linked. It seems though that they are placing higher priority on Ashley.

That's actually a good point: I remember thinking that Kaidan was behaving a little oddly in that scene. Since I've always Virmired Ashley, I don't know how she reacts there, but it definitely does sound more like something she would say than something Kaidan would say. Tsk tsk tsk. It is a shame to be essentially trying to make them into carbon copies of each other, because they're really not.

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

 Femshep got the worst of it though, the one sided gayness, the weird animations, oi vey .

Are you referring to Liara?

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:06 .

[Collider]

Are you referring to Liara?

Possibly referring to:

a) Kaidan wearing Phoenix Armor (which is white and pink)

Some of the animations during the Horizon scene. 1:25 for example struck me as kind of weird.

[Twilight_Princess]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

 Femshep got the worst of it though, the one sided gayness, the weird animations, oi vey .

Are you referring to Liara?

Not just Liara, the consort , Shiala, Kelly, Samara, Morinth, they just seem to cut and paste femshep when it comes to flirtation rather then give her equal opportunity with male NPCs. They sure aren't letting malshep get any man action so its not them exactly being considerate to the gay community just lazy and using lesbianism as a novelty rather than letting both genders have the same choices when it comes to sex and romance.

I'm in the "fairness or all" , some people say letting femshep have gay options is a step forward but the same company made Dragon Age! If anything its a big step backwards and further encourages the idea that being a lesbian or a bisexual woman isn't as "bad" as being a gay man or bisexual man. It also reinforces the idea that being gay hinders a man (takes away his badassery) while it doesn't hinder a woman. Sorry for ranting, I don't think I'd be so grumpy if they threw the hetro women (me please) and the gay gamers a male NPC to flirt with, JUST ONE BIOWARE!

*edit*

If an example is needed...then how about...Lorik...just throwing that out there, its not like having a proper drink with him is on my ME3 super-sexy wish list... *cough*

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:31 .

[Nilfalasiel]

mashavasilec wrote...

just think of this:

start of ME3.
the Normandy is being destroyed (again)
Garrus runs up to you in Thane's jacket, saying something philosophical..

oh, the horror

Lol, yes, it would be. Although Thane and Garrus aren't in the same position as Ashley and Kaidan. For starters, they're both FemShep LIs, and you don't *have* to kill one of them off, so they're not as interchangeable.

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Not just Liara, the consort , Shiala, Kelly, Samara, Morinth, they just seem to cut and paste femshep when it comes to flirtation rather then give her equal opportunity with male NPCs. They sure aren't letting malshep get any man action so its not them exactly being considerate to the gay community just lazy and using lesbianism as a novelty rather than letting both genders have the same choices when it comes to sex and romance.

I'm in the "fairness or all" , some people say letting femshep have gay options is a step forward but the same company made Dragon Age! If anything its a big step backwards and further encourages the idea that being a lesbian or a bisexual woman isn't as "bad" as being a gay man or bisexual man. It also reinforces the idea that being gay hinders a man (takes away his badassery) while it doesn't hinder a woman. Sorry for ranting, I don't think I'd be so grumpy if they threw me and the gay gamers a male NPC to flirt with, JUST ONE BIOWARE!

Yeah, that is true. Even in DA:O, Leliana, despite being bi, seems to prefer women (it's easier to romance her and to get ninjamanced by her as a female Warden), and Zevran admits to preferring women to men. It's like there's an inherent bias towards lesbianism, which I guess is to be expected in a sphere dominated by young males (a lot more men find the idea of two women together appealing than the reverse). Even despite the fact that Zev says he prefers women, he still gets a lot of hate for simply the possbility to swing both ways. Heck, one of the people on the Zev thread likes him as a character, but finds the fact that he's bi objectionable. I think straight men tend to have a much stronger reaction to gay/bi male characters: even if they're not homophobic per se, they might be weirded out by the possibility. By contrast, it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal for women.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:37 .

[Collider]

They did record same sex lines for Kaidan and Thane romances. I imagine the reason why they did not make it into the games was due to time restraints or they simply felt it did not fit the characters. This has more credence considering I've never seen Kaidan or Thane themselves having gay romance lines, only Shepard/Meer.

Modifié par Collider, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:35 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

They did record same sex lines for Kaidan and Thane romances. I imagine the reason why they did not make it into the games was due to time restraints or they simply felt it did not fit the characters. This has more credence considering I've never seen Kaidan or Thane themselves having gay romance lines, only Shepard/Meer.

Well, Thane's always been straight in my eyes, so to me, it's definitely justifiable in his case. Kaidan, on the other hand, I can imagine swinging both ways, but that might just be me.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:39 .

[Collider]

I think that women are more accepting or tolerant of homosexuality or bisexuality. Women are more compassionate, for one thing.

[Collider]

Nevermind (for now, at least)

Modifié par Collider, 27 juillet 2010 - 09:48 .

[Bugsie]

Collider wrote...

I think that women are more accepting or tolerant of homosexuality or bisexuality. Women are more compassionate, for one thing.

I think the first part is true Collider, but the second I'm hesitant to say yes to that.  Women are more open about their compassion and are comfortable expressing it in public, this doesn't mean that men are less compassionate to me though, they just express it in different ways. 
I can definitely see Thane as a male Shep LI, but not Garrus, although I'm sure some guys would have like the option.  Jacob, he strikes me as very het but if you consider the dialogue then maybe not....

[J4N3_M3]

Some may see one character as gay while others don't. Personally, I think it depends on how one plays the game. If I play Femshep and romance one of the male LIs then I do see them as straight and it doesn't even occur to me that maybe in some alternate universe (meaning another PT) they may be homosexual. It's because I don't really care about it. Actually, I think, love should be treated equally in the game but alas, it isn't, which I find sad.

As for women being more accepting or tolerant of ******-/bisexuality...I do agree on that. Of course, it's not the case for EVERY woman but there's a certain tendency.

[Mentatzoee]

I'd say the tendency actually goes for a higher ratio of accepting MALE homosexuality.

I've seen many, many women that say things like:

-"Uh, I don't care if she's gay/bi, but she'd better not get close to me/look at me/whatever."

-"Two guys? Two guys are hawt".



Of course, and like it happens with everything, tendencies and statistics are just that. It's not real to assume a standard _insert country name here_ family has 1.2 kids, but it might be a good guide when working with the data, and the same would apply to the fact of considering women more prone to accept ******/bisexuality. Anyway, it could also be (well, I'm pretty sure it IS) a matter of the different cultures that surround us. It surely wouldn't be the same if we asked a considerable number of women in our different countries (and our cultures aren't _that_ different. Go figure what they might say in Ethiopia)



I feel like I'm dispersing a bit, but you know.

[J4N3_M3]

Mentatzoee wrote...

I'd say the tendency actually goes for a higher ratio of accepting MALE homosexuality.
I've seen many, many women that say things like:
-"Uh, I don't care if she's gay/bi, but she'd better not get close to me/look at me/whatever."
-"Two guys? Two guys are hawt".

Of course, and like it happens with everything, tendencies and statistics are just that. It's not real to assume a standard _insert country name here_ family has 1.2 kids, but it might be a good guide when working with the data, and the same would apply to the fact of considering women more prone to accept ******/bisexuality. Anyway, it could also be (well, I'm pretty sure it IS) a matter of the different cultures that surround us. It surely wouldn't be the same if we asked a considerable number of women in our different countries (and our cultures aren't _that_ different. Go figure what they might say in Ethiopia)

I feel like I'm dispersing a bit, but you know.

you don't even have to go to Ethiopia for that. Just go to Jamaica...10 years prison for buttsex...just saying. Go figure how they think about homosexuality in general.

Anyway, of course it is a matter of cultures and stuff but we were talking tendencies mostly and what people have experienced in the forums, it wasn't matter of factly speaking.

[Nilfalasiel]

Mentatzoee wrote...

I'd say the tendency actually goes for a higher ratio of accepting MALE homosexuality.
I've seen many, many women that say things like:
-"Uh, I don't care if she's gay/bi, but she'd better not get close to me/look at me/whatever."
-"Two guys? Two guys are hawt".

See, that for me is a largely internet-based phenomenon. I have never actually met a woman who found the idea of guy-on-guy action appealing in the same way as a man would find the idea of girl-on-girl action appealing (that one applies to just about every guy I know in real life). So tolerating/accepting the idea, yes. Finding the idea hot, not so much. I know I don't, and yet I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of gay couples (it would be pretty hypocritical of me).

Of course, on the internet, the sheer amount of slashfic goes to show that there are plenty of women who do find gay couples appealing. It's just that I've never talked to these women in person.

J4N3_M4 wrote...

Some may see one character as gay while others don't. Personally, I think it depends on how one plays the game. If I play Femshep and romance one of the male LIs then I do see them as straight and it doesn't even occur to me that maybe in some alternate universe (meaning another PT) they may be homosexual.

Well, I don't know, from the way a character is written, I get the sense that they could swing one way or both, whether I'm playing a male or a female character. I distinctly got that feeling with Kaidan, both with my Male and my FemSheps. With Thane, even with my MaleShep, I could only see him as straight, even though I know he was originally written as bi. Perhaps that's why they ended up dropping the idea in the end? They didn't feel that the character was actually bi?

Same with Garrus: he'll always be straight in my eyes, whether with a Male or a FemShep. Tali, on the other hand, I can see swinging both ways.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 11:23 .

[Mentatzoee]

I somehow wanted the culture thing to excuse my opposed opinion to what it seems to be the trend, since I felt it was necessary to point out the difference that actually exists between accepting female and male homosexuality.
It's something I often see, and something I deeply despise, especially from that kind of women who call themselves to be the living model of tolerance but can't understand that the a gay/bi woman can look at/talk to them without it meaning they want something.
So, well, reading that women are more tolerant of ******/bisexuality made me put the sarcastic glasses on.
I don't like being inflexible and intransigent, so I wanted to state that might be my opinion because it's what I've seen around me a lot of times, and might be a cultural thing.

And yeah, half of the world is crazy. Going to jail because any kind of "allowed" sex between two self-aware individuals? Scares the sh!t out of me. Well, the fact that jails exist and are considered as an actual useful way to"deal with people" does.

(and more dispersion!)

Modifié par Mentatzoee, 27 juillet 2010 - 11:26 .