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[J4N3_M3]

Mentatzoee wrote...

I somehow wanted the culture thing to excuse my opposed opinion to what it seems to be the trend, since I felt it was necessary to point out the difference that actually exists between accepting female and male homosexuality.
It's something I often see, and something I deeply despise, especially from that kind of women who call themselves to be the living model of tolerance but can't understand that the a gay/bi woman can look at/talk to them without it meaning they want something.
So, well, reading that women are more tolerant of ******/bisexuality made me put the sarcastic glasses on.
I don't like being inflexible and intransigent, so I wanted to state that might be my opinion because it's what I've seen around me a lot of times, and might be a cultural thing.

And yeah, half of the world is crazy. Going to jail because any kind of "allowed" sex between two self-aware individuals? Scares the sh!t out of me. Well, the fact that jails exist and are considered as an actual useful way to"deal with people" does.

(and more dispersion!)

I know what you meant with your sarcastic remark. I do see alot of these people as well. Personally, I don't care about anyone's orientation. I tend to back off though, if they hit on me and I'm not interested but even then it's not a matter of straight guy or gay chick, it's just a matter of I don't want to, leave me alone. That simple.

And I'm far from being tolerant. I just can't be bothered....*shrugs*

[Bugsie]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

See, that for me is a largely internet-based phenomenon. I have never actually met a woman who found the idea of guy-on-guy action appealing in the same way as a man would find the idea of girl-on-girl action appealing (that one applies to just about every guy I know in real life). So tolerating/accepting the idea, yes. Finding the idea hot, not so much. I know I don't, and yet I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of gay couples (it would be pretty hypocritical of me).

Of course, on the internet, the sheer amount of slashfic goes to show that there are plenty of women who do find gay couples appealing. It's just that I've never talked to these women in person.

I had a housemate many years ago who was obsessed with male/male pairings - I'd never even thought about it till she introduced me to all the Kirk/Spock slash fiction.  She definitely found it hot - I understand that there would be straight women who find it appealing (and I say more for reasons I put in the next paragraph) I'm just not one of them and I haven't met another woman since who felt quite the same as she did. 
I always find the whole idea of guys liking the girl on girl action pretty funny, as the whole fantasy is not really about finding homosexual pairings attractive - its more about THEM having 2 women, one we know that real life gay couples would never find appealing!!

[Alexine]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Mentatzoee wrote...

I'd say the tendency actually goes for a higher ratio of accepting MALE homosexuality.
I've seen many, many women that say things like:
-"Uh, I don't care if she's gay/bi, but she'd better not get close to me/look at me/whatever."
-"Two guys? Two guys are hawt".

See, that for me is a largely internet-based phenomenon. I have never actually met a woman who found the idea of guy-on-guy action appealing in the same way as a man would find the idea of girl-on-girl action appealing (that one applies to just about every guy I know in real life). So tolerating/accepting the idea, yes. Finding the idea hot, not so much. I know I don't, and yet I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of gay couples (it would be pretty hypocritical of me).

Of course, on the internet, the sheer amount of slashfic goes to show that there are plenty of women who do find gay couples appealing. It's just that I've never talked to these women in person.

You're lucky, Nil. I've met several girls who like man-on-man action, mainly from the anime club at university. Which is kind of why I steered away from the club since that first meeting. While I don't mind homosexuality and have nothing against it, it does make me cringe heavily at times when I see them get it on. 

What I recall reading from this interesting article was that men will usually like girl-on-girl action is that perceived idea of threesomes. Women still have that idealogy for liking man-on-man action, but it is lesser to a degree, as because of supression in women's rights in history, as well as a man's fantasy of having a threesome is considered to be "taint", blaming it on women for inciting that.

But when I played ME1 for the first time, it never crossed my mind that Kaidan would swing both ways. Now reading into his character after a few playthroughs now makes me think so.

EDIT:/ beat me to it, BG!

Modifié par Alexine, 27 juillet 2010 - 11:42 .

[Mentatzoee]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
See, that for me is a largely internet-based phenomenon. I have never actually met a woman who found the idea of guy-on-guy action appealing in the same way as a man would find the idea of girl-on-girl action appealing (that one applies to just about every guy I know in real life). So tolerating/accepting the idea, yes. Finding the idea hot, not so much. I know I don't, and yet I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of gay couples (it would be pretty hypocritical of me).

Of course, on the internet, the sheer amount of slashfic goes to show that there are plenty of women who do find gay couples appealing. It's just that I've never talked to these women in person.

I haven't known many either, and those I've known wanted bisexual male couples, so they could participate. I once even met a girl who seemed to be only attracted by gay men. She only went out with gay men and used to talk about the amazing videos they put at the gay clubs she went to ("Gay" clubs that usually are filled with videos/pictures of ****s, even if gay women are also considered gay. Shouldn't these places be more... neutral? Anyway, clubs suck. What's the point of being there if you can't talk to people? I can understand liking to listen at music at an incredibly loud volume in a somewhat dark place, if I consider feeling the music/dancing/and so, but when it comes to value the kind of social interaction people have there... C'mon! *bites the table to stop talking*).

Where was I? Ah, that girl. She was aware she would never have an oportunity to be with any of them, yet she couldn't feel attraction towards a straight male. Don't know what ever happened to her.

J4N3_M3 wrote...

I know what you meant with your sarcastic
remark. I do see alot of these people as well. Personally, I don't care
about anyone's orientation. I tend to back off though, if they hit on
me and I'm not interested but even then it's not a matter of straight
guy or gay chick, it's just a matter of I don't want to, leave me alone.
That simple.

And I'm far from being tolerant. I just can't be bothered....*shrugs*

Amen to that.

[Collider]

Why does Kaidan strike some of you as possibly (or conceivably) swinging both ways?

[Nilfalasiel]

Buggirl70 wrote...

I always find the whole idea of guys liking the girl on girl action pretty funny, as the whole fantasy is not really about finding homosexual pairings attractive - its more about THEM having 2 women, one we know that real life gay couples would never find appealing!!

Heh, yes, I know. It's almost as if they either expect the two girls involved to be consciously trying to turn them on, or that they're automatically bi AND into threesomes. I've only met one guy who said he genuinely liked it for what it was, without any thoughts of himself also being involved in the action, but even then, I wasn't quite convinced by his reasoning.

But I think this ties in with the whole idea that women in general are more tolerant of homosexuality: if they have less issues with it, people may assume that they'll have less issues with engaging in it just for the sake of enticing a man. I think that's also where people get the "however-many percent of women are potentially bi from the waist up" statistics. I'd like to know whether there's ever been an actual study on that topic, or whether it's just an urban legend.

Then again, from what Mentatzoee says, the idea of female tolerance for homosexuality also seems to be less widespread than you'd assume.

Mentatzoee wrote...

I haven't known many either, and those I've known wanted bisexual male couples, so they could participate. I once even met a girl who seemed to be only attracted by gay men. She only went out with gay men and used to talk about the amazing videos they put at the gay clubs she went to ("Gay" clubs that usually are filled with videos/pictures of ****s, even if gay women are also considered gay. Shouldn't these places be more... neutral? Anyway, clubs suck. What's the point of being there if you can't talk to people? I can understand liking to listen at music at an incredibly loud volume in a somewhat dark place, if I consider feeling the music/dancing/and so, but when it comes to value the kind of social interaction people have there... C'mon! *bites the table to stop talking*).

I can't stand clubs either. The few times I went, I just ended up getting pissed off because of unsolicited groping X_X There are only two reasons I see for going: dancing and/or picking someone up for a one-nighter.

Where was I? Ah, that girl. She was aware she would never have an oportunity to be with any of them, yet she couldn't feel attraction towards a straight male. Don't know what ever happened to her.

This actually seems to be a recurrent phenomenon, as there's a (not-so-nice) term for it. One of my friends, who's gay, once informed me that they're called ****-hags. Just strikes me as an exacerbated case of "the attraction of the forbidden fruit". It's not just that she's not supposed to have them, it's that she really can't have them.

EDIT: Oh, it seems that the term is even less nice than I thought, since it got censored. Well, I'm sure you can guess what the word is. It rhymes with "hag".

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 11:54 .

[Alexine]

I don't know. It's a strange thing. I've not known any guys who swing both ways, but I have met some guys who prefer men. They are usually kind and nice to girls, and often seemed rather thoughtful in personality and ideas. It does kind of like how Kaidan is. I know i'm kind of stereotyping homosexual men, but those are the guys I've met so far.

[Collider]

Well to avoid possibly being lumped together with other men, I don't find girl-on-girl particularly appealing. Not against it, just not my cup of tea.

[J4N3_M3]

well, to be honest, i enjoy the sight of some girl-on-girl action as well. but that's because - although i'm straighter than the straightest road - I think women have beautiful bodies and it's just awesome to watch two of them doing ...ya know, stuff.

then again....I do enjoy watching two hawt guys as well. I know, I'm weird like that.

eh, who cares. *shrugs*

[Neria Rose]

Two guys together really doesn't do much for me because I automatically assume it means they're gay and therefore not interested in me. It's like preferring alien/human action over alien/alien action.. it's a lot easier to get into if I think I could be found appealing by the non-human.



I'm not against gay pairings whatsoever (in fact, quite a vocal supporter of them myself), I just don't get turned on by them.



And to make this Garrus-related, I will admit there was a fanfic I liked of a MShep/Garrus pairing. All I remember is that it involved a hug (very descriptive, I know >.<). I guess as long as Garrus is attracted to a human, I'm all for it .

[Mentatzoee]

I've seen a lot of straight girls who kiss their friends but say that female homosexuality is gross.



I admit it I wouldn't mind it, at least. As long as I'm interested, I don't care if it's an X or a Y. Of course, I find women's bodies to be beautiful easier than I'd find a man's, but still.

There's also a bit of a samurai saying(I think it's from Hagakure, maybe) that made me consider being with another girl something more possible. "Only a warrior can really know what a warrior needs."



Of course, we're human beings. Sex is fun if we leave our prejudices behind, period. Of course, that doesn't mean being aroused by anything that moves, but you know.



Hell, what about turians? Would you do a turian if they were real?

[Collider]

Alexine wrote...

I don't know. It's a strange thing. I've not known any guys who swing both ways, but I have met some guys who prefer men. They are usually kind and nice to girls, and often seemed rather thoughtful in personality and ideas. It does kind of like how Kaidan is. I know i'm kind of stereotyping homosexual men, but those are the guys I've met so far.

Interesting. When I asked other people why they thought Kaidan could swing both ways, they cited his thoughtfulness & sensitivity, yea. Interesting though - that thoughtfulness is seen as associated. For me personally, that description always seemed gender and sexuality neutral. In contrast to say "aggressive," which I would lean towards being masculine, particularly straight men.

[Alexine]

Seeing man-on-man or girl-on-girl action is not my cup of tea either, but I do see how it does appeal to people. I am kind of glad that BW didn't make everyone bi, because it would really demean the characters in the game. Although we are in an open-minded society in most western countries, there is always a lot of close-mindedness in society for changes, anything new arriving and anything that is foreign. It is all just the flaws of society, and it can't be helped.

Modifié par Alexine, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:00 .

[Neria Rose]

Mentatzoee wrote...

Hell, what about turians? Would you do a turian if they were real?

As long as my boyfriend would let me give it a go, I totally would. I'd also do a Quarian (preferrably male, but female would be fine), Drell (also preferrably male, but willing to try female) and Asari (Aria or Aria-like, specifically). I'd let him have a go with whatever species he wanted as well. These are one-time flings, mind you >.>..

[Mentatzoee]

I think that being thoughtful in daily life and aggressive when having sex would be a great trait for a straight man.



I guess the aggressive thing is related to showing sexual arousal, and therefore it has became a trait considered in general, rather than in bed.

I'd say that a man who behaves thoughtfully and with sensitivity in bed wouldn't be generally considered as another who was a handful of sexual drive.



Just my two cents.

[J4N3_M3]

I'm usually not able to "assume" anything when watching someone-on-someone-action. I just turn mah bwains off and enjoy the view. God, I'm not just intolerant, I'm also superficial.

Modifié par J4N3_M3, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:02 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Alexine wrote...

I don't know. It's a strange thing. I've not known any guys who swing both ways, but I have met some guys who prefer men. They are usually kind and nice to girls, and often seemed rather thoughtful in personality and ideas. It does kind of like how Kaidan is. I know i'm kind of stereotyping homosexual men, but those are the guys I've met so far.

I've known several gay guys and had a major crush on a guy who swung both ways. And yes, that's mainly the same vibe I get from Kaidan. Sensitive, thoughtful. He even has that same soft-spokenness that the guy I liked had. There's also the fact that he seems very tolerant (if you don't Renegade him): it's not a big stretch to imagine this kind of open-mindedness could apply to all aspects of his personality.

Of course, the one big counterargument is how awkwardly he reacts to the possibility of FemShep being a lesbian, if she romances Liara.

NeriaRose wrote...

Two guys together really doesn't do much for me because I automatically assume it means they're gay and therefore not interested in me. It's like preferring alien/human action over alien/alien action.. it's a lot easier to get into if I think I could be found appealing by the non-human.

This. I don't find it appealing because I also automatically assume that they're interested in men and men only. This is also why I'm such a big advocate of Garrus finding some kind of physical attraction for FemShep: it's unrealistic to me that there could be sex without at least some attraction on the most basic level.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:07 .

[Alexine]

Collider wrote...

Alexine wrote...

I don't know. It's a strange thing. I've not known any guys who swing both ways, but I have met some guys who prefer men. They are usually kind and nice to girls, and often seemed rather thoughtful in personality and ideas. It does kind of like how Kaidan is. I know i'm kind of stereotyping homosexual men, but those are the guys I've met so far.

Interesting. When I asked other people why they thought Kaidan could swing both ways, they cited his thoughtfulness & sensitivity, yea. Interesting though - that thoughtfulness is seen as associated. For me personally, that description always seemed gender and sexuality neutral. In contrast to say "aggressive," which I would lean towards being masculine, particularly straight men.

Coming from a history's perspective, it is viewed quite true that masculinity needed to play into context. Across many societies, men needed to be shown to be superior through strength, valour, positivity, etc (e.g. anarchic greek society tribes plundering other tribe's women for capture and yin and yang) It does show this in BW as well, because they need to show ManShep to be that masculine character, or else he'll be labelled as a sissy.

[Mentatzoee]

Neria Rose wrote...

Mentatzoee wrote...

Hell, what about turians? Would you do a turian if they were real?

As long as my boyfriend would let me give it a go, I totally would. I'd also do a Quarian (preferrably male, but female would be fine), Drell (also preferrably male, but willing to try female) and Asari (Aria or Aria-like, specifically). I'd let him have a go with whatever species he wanted as well. These are one-time flings, mind you >.>..

AMEN TO THAT TOO.

Heck, I would even do Legion. A perfectly programmed lover BAHAHA

Male quarians are smexy. I'm jealous of the Talimancers, I want a quarian too.

I think it would be pretty amazing to have such a xenophillic Shepard that would do Liara on ME1, ditch her for Garrus in ME2, and ditch him for a male quarian/Legion in ME3. *evil laugh*

Of course, I would always keep a PT only for Garrus. He's lovely. I couldn't break his heart like this.
(And another only for the male quarian, and another only for Legion. xDD)

[Collider]

Of course, the one big counterargument is how awkwardly he reacts to the possibility of FemShep being a lesbian, if she romances Liara.

I've seen this being perceived in many different ways by people.



Some see it as just being embarrassed. Others saw it as him not really knowing the most optimal way of phrasing it without causing offense.



Others were offended by his (I'm probably paraphrasing here) "I didn't know you were one of them" line, because they thought it implied that Kaidan thought gay/bisexual women/people were "different."

[J4N3_M3]

Mentatzoee wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

Mentatzoee wrote...

Hell, what about turians? Would you do a turian if they were real?

As long as my boyfriend would let me give it a go, I totally would. I'd also do a Quarian (preferrably male, but female would be fine), Drell (also preferrably male, but willing to try female) and Asari (Aria or Aria-like, specifically). I'd let him have a go with whatever species he wanted as well. These are one-time flings, mind you >.>..

AMEN TO THAT TOO.

Heck, I would even do Legion. A perfectly programmed lover BAHAHA

Male quarians are smexy. I'm jealous of the Talimancers, I want a quarian too.

I think it would be pretty amazing to have such a xenophillic Shepard that would do Liara on ME1, ditch her for Garrus in ME2, and ditch him for a male quarian/Legion in ME3. *evil laugh*

Of course, I would always keep a PT only for Garrus. He's lovely. I couldn't break his heart like this.
(And another only for the male quarian, and another only for Legion. xDD)

oh HELL YEAH! 
Kal'Reegar.....*drools*
Thane (I'd take Kolyat as well but I have to admit I like men better than boys)
Garrus (or Sidonis, Nihlus before he died of course, on the other hand, YAY turian necrophilia)
and ARIA! She is HAWT! 

[Alexine]

Mentatzoee wrote...

Heck, I would even do Legion. A perfectly programmed lover BAHAHA

I wouldn't mind either. Legion is sooo cute! But my mind keeps on going back to him having 1,183 geth programs, thinking of bigamy...

[Nilfalasiel]

Mentatzoee wrote...

I admit it I wouldn't mind it, at least. As long as I'm interested, I don't care if it's an X or a Y.

Amen to this.

Hell, what about turians? Would you do a turian if they were real?

Sure, yeah, why not? It would definitely be an experience. From what we know of quarians' physical appearances (I'm saying this because they could still turn out to have a physical feature that turns me off), I'd also go for that.

Drell sans flashbacks would also work. Asari...in theory, yes, in practice, the rampant promiscuity is a turnoff.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:13 .

[J4N3_M3]

Alexine wrote...

Mentatzoee wrote...

Heck, I would even do Legion. A perfectly programmed lover BAHAHA

I wouldn't mind either. Legion is sooo cute! But my mind keeps on going back to him having 1,183 geth programs, thinking of bigamy...

not legion though. Human females already have the perfectly programmed lover for that. Varying sizes, shapes and colours and WAY more comfortable than Legion. I wonder what Mordin's advice regarding a Geth would sound like.

Beware of bruises, electro shocks and constant fainting to multiple orgasm overload?

[Mentatzoee]

Bahaha. Xenophilic spree.

Sorry to disrupt actual serious conversation xD



I'm off to pick up my boyfriend. Have to make out a way to convince him to cosplay Kal'Reegar. LOL.



Nihlus. Why did they kill Nihlus?! They didn't even give Shep the chance!