29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Nilfalasiel]

Mentatzoee wrote...

Maybe! Something tells me they would even pair with a Hanar, an Elcor... You know.

I think Matriarch Aethyta mentions either one or both of those in her "you take refuge in whatever arms will hold you" comment. I'm pretty sure she said Elcor, at least. So she's been there, at least.

But she's one of the very rare asari that are cool.

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I agree that the romance triggers in DAO are a tangled mess. I actually did a thing where I isolated all of the ones for Alistair out of curiosity and there are literally 20+. Pretty much every major conversation with him has one in it, sometimes two. The one that irks me the most is when you give him his mother's amulet. You MUST act like a smartass there or it triggers the romance. And if you act a smartass you only get half the approval points you normally get from a special gift. I mean, he told me about the amulet and I am his friend. Why wouldn't I give it to him? That would just be mean, but the game makes it into a romantic advance. I actually think they did Alistair a disservice with this. He suffers from a lot of sloppy romance triggers and all over the place writing (the notorious "WAAAHHHH, you killed Connor even though I told you to!!!") I don't know if that is him flip-floping or the writers not being careful. I think it is both.

That's it, it was probably the amulet that got me into the romance. I don't remember being a smartass about it the first time around. Then again, I could very well have triggered it earlier, considering what you're saying. 20+? Jeebus.
At least, with Zev, the romance starters are pretty much glaringly obvious.

 




 

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:41 .

[Collider]

I think they should do what the FFTL group has suggested and color code responses or something so that "dialog in X color" signals a romance trigger. It might be immersion breaking but it would save a lot of angst.

I agree. It's far better than having one's character flirt when the player didn't intend to.

[Collider]

At least, with Zev, the romance starters are pretty much glaringly obvious.

I liked that with Zevran, you just tell him not to and he no longer flirts with the Warden. It was easy.



I think I might recall something similar with Alistair, but it's definitely harder to get if there is an option to say that to him.

[Collider]

Does this mean that you can flirt with him/start the romance in the convos before that?

The conversation I listed, I'm fairly sure, is the only place that Shepard can flirt with Jacob besides his romance. So after that conversation (and if you didn't enter the romance), you get the same conversations as M!Shepard. The conversation where you can flirt with Jacob can happen before Horizon (or after if you leave it till then).

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

I've also heard about people accidentally romancing Leliana. I actually raised concerns about sensitive romance triggers in the DA2 forums, and I got a response from a writer who said that they have attempted to make the triggers far more obvious. Since dialog options apparently come with icons, I imagine that just putting a "heart" icon next to the romance triggering lines would alleviate the problem.

Lol, it would be cheesy, but it would work.

It's almost as if the game assumes you are romancing Alistair if you have high approval with him.

Well, he IS the most popular LI among the female population. But it's still not fair to assume.

In my opinion, in DA2, they should get rid of non-plot gifts altogether.

Another good idea.

I also got caught in the Jack romance. After I tried to get out of it, she told me to **** off

I'd saved right before one of her convos because I was getting concerned that I was talking to her too much. When I did talk to her, she did her "me or Tali" spiel. So I reloaded and stayed away from her.

With Miranda there's a "You're hard to compliment" line. It seemed innocuous, but instead Shepard tells Miranda that she has a hot body. Though, it's not as bad as Jack's faulty romance triggers were.

Dunno, the compliment line seemed suspicious to me. Especially considering what Miranda looks like. I mean: what are most guys going to compliment first and foremost when they sees a girl like that? Certainly not her eyes...

In ME1 I accidentally romanced Ashley. I thought I was just being nice, and then suddenly she tells me how great in bed she is. There was also an instance where she asked if Shepard "was still interested." All of the responses Shepard could make to that was "yes" in different ways. There was no "What? I was never interested," or "No, I'm not interested."

With Ashley, the conversation where you overhear her sister saying Shepard is cute has a pretty big "get me out of here" sign over it though, IMO. Yes, you have to be strictly professional with her to get out of the romance there, but at least, there is a way out. The "three response trap" comes later. Kaidan's very first convo has that trap in it, where you have to be downright rude to get out of it.

[Collider]

What they really need to do is quit *assuming* I'm with anybody. I'm sick of picking Garrus say and then having Jacob and Miranda paraded in front of me all the time.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's pretty distressing that I had to save before talking to Jacob as F!Shepard in order to figure out what options did not lead to flirting. And Miranda, at one point Shepard is talking to her butt.

[Mentatzoee]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
 I like to be able to turn down any unwelcome advancements be it from a homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, asari, over-eager dog humping my leg or whatever.

Amen to that (again).

If we couldn't refuse someone after having had certain conversations in our daily life we would call it harassment. I don't see why it has to be any different for the characters we play in our games (it might be a whole different thing, but I can't see why can't it be as serious, and I don't mean to frivolize about it).

There should always be a "Back off b!tch/jerk" option available, and the devs shouldn't have presumed that if we got to a certain point of the conversation and if we took a certain path in the answers we gave the NPC it directly meant we wanted our chara to be involved with that NPC. Of course, developing the conversations of such a game and trying to keep it homogenous and such might be a really hard task. Even though, I can't see why shouldn't be there an option to back off, no matter where we stood.

Anyway, I think this has gotten better from ME1. I can feel the devs tried to make the triggers easy to recognize, and to give always a way out. I haven't played a MShep, but as far as I've seen from the FShep romances in ME2, I'd say they're all pretty easy to turn down.

Something I don't really like either is this trigger mechanic. Like I said before, I really liked the way it felt like you were actually building a relationship with the NPCs at DAO instead of playing a "push the right button" game.

[Collider]

(the notorious "WAAAHHHH, you killed Connor even though I told you to!!!") I don't know if that is him flip-floping or the writers not being careful. I think it is both.

I really disliked this. For one thing, the Redcliffe decision involved a cop out choice. You could just have the mages come over, and everyone is happy. Despite the Warden being presumably being absent from the Castle for weeks, when you return the demon had sat on her laurels and waited for you, and had done nothing. There was no consequence.



So when Alistair is freaking out, it's like the game is telling me "why didn't you take the 'get out of jail free card'?!!11"

[Sialater]

Friendly neighborhood reminder that we're veering WAY OT.

[Collider]

Well one of the problems with DA:O romances, I think, were the gifts. You could get like 100% approval just with gifts alone.

[Mirlam]

Hi all Garrus-lovers I just finished Mass Effect 2 and decided to come to forums to share my obsession with others like myself. I adored Garrus in ME1 already, and had no idea he was a LI in ME2. I heard this "Archangel" was a romanceable character but didn't know who it was.. I guess you can imagine the squeals when I found out.

I even made a fanart to bribe you guys (so you won't kick me out of the thread when you find out how weird I am):




So here's Garrus bringing some wine for you! Again. In a waiter suit.
Don't ask me why I wanted to draw this.
(let's see if the link works. It's my first time posting a picture on the forums)

Makes me wonder though, as sweet as it is to bring wine to Shepard before suicide mission.. Is it really a good idea to drink wine just two hours before going on a mission you'll potentially get killed? Maybe Shepard and Garrus don't get as easily drunk as others..

Modifié par Mirlam, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:02 .

[Mentatzoee]

Wait, wasn't this the Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion thread?



I love bad jokes. Almost as much as they love me.
And Garrus!

[Sialater]

It's the cybernetics.



Welcome, Mirlam! Personally, my Shep shelved the wine for a celebration for after the O4.

[Xsause]

Welcome to the thread, Mirlam!

And thanks for the great picture, too. Garrus looks suprisingly hot in a tux.

Collider wrote...

Well one of the problems with DA:O romances, I think, were the gifts. You could get like 100% approval just
with gifts alone.

True. On my male Dwarf Noble playthrough, I romanced Zevran with gifts alone. Got the "come to my tent" conversation on my first visit to camp...

Modifié par Xsause, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:03 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Mentatzoee wrote...

Anyway, I think this has gotten better from ME1. I can feel the devs tried to make the triggers easy to recognize, and to give always a way out. I haven't played a MShep, but as far as I've seen from the FShep romances in ME2, I'd say they're all pretty easy to turn down.

Something I don't really like either is this trigger mechanic. Like I said before, I really liked the way it felt like you were actually building a relationship with the NPCs at DAO instead of playing a "push the right button" game.

The problem here is that you either have obvious triggers, or people get ninjamanced. Yes, the latter feels more natural when you do actually want the romance. My very first FemShep romanced Kaidan, and I enjoyed the pacing of the romance. There was no worrying about unwanted attention (well, except from Liara, before I figured out how exactly to turn her down) and the gradual development of the convos was organic and enjoyable. But then, of course, if you're trying to keep your Shep single, it becomes annoying.

By contrast, most of the ME2 romances were really easy to spot, but they had a bit of an "on/off" button feel to them. Even Garrus', much as I love it. So it feels a bit choppy, and you have to do a bit of filling in the blanks to make it less cut and dry.

But yeah, implementing "I want out" or "that's not what I meant" options at every stage of the romance is probably a good compromise. That way, if you make a mistake, you can back out at any time. Actually, "that's not what I meant" is probably the better phrasing, since most of the issues seem to be that people aren't expecting their character to say what they actually say.

[Collider]

Sialater wrote...

Friendly neighborhood reminder that we're veering WAY OT.

On the subject of romance triggers, they did indeed make it obvious with Garrus. They even provided several ways out.
Such as:
After Shepard says we can test flexibility and junk, the player can have Shepard be just talking about sparring between friends instead of something more.

This is great, because it means that the player can easily back out of the romance without having technically accidentally flirted with the character.

you'll also notice that several/all of the ways that Shepard ends the romance with Garrus are "let's not ruin the friendship." That reminds me of something I talked about earlier in the thread - ME2 pretty much assumes that Garrus is Shepard's friend no matter what. A lot of the other squad mates you can be mean or unfriendly to, but with Garrus you can't really, at least not that I remember.

Modifié par Collider, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:03 .

[Sialater]

Collider wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Friendly neighborhood reminder that we're veering WAY OT.

On the subject of romance triggers, they did indeed make it obvious with Garrus. They even provided several ways out.
Such as:
After Shepard says we can test flexibility and junk, the player can have Shepard be just talking about sparring between friends instead of something more.

This is great, because it means that the player can easily back out of the romance without having technically accidentally flirted with the character.

you'll also notice that several/all of the ways that Shepard ends the romance with Garrus are "let's not ruin the friendship." That reminds me of something I talked about earlier in the thread - ME2 pretty much assumes that Garrus is Shepard's friend no matter what. A lot of the other squad mates you can be mean or unfriendly to, but with Garrus you can't really, at least not that I remember.

No, you can't be mean to him, still breaks his heart anyway.  Damn, Keener REALLY sold that kicked puppy sound in his voice. 

I turned off the Garrus romance with my Kaidan girl yesterday.  It's STILL wrenching to do it.  

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

There is at the end of his "lampposts in winter" conversation.  If you haven't started the romance with him yet at that point than he overtly asks if you are interested at the end of that conversation.  It's something like "that wouldn't be so bad would it?  You'd want a gentleman to court you wouldn't you, if-if you were to be courted by someone that is."   There you have to explicitly say yes or no and if you say no, I think it becomes much harder to trigger after that.  There's another where you are talking about Wardens and he mentions you are beautiful in a by-the-way way and you can ask him about it.  He asks if it bugs you and you can "no, but keep it to yourself," and he says "Understood," and things move along naturally.  I actually intended to write a faq about this at one point, but I never got round to it.  By now, I'm sure someone else has done it.  

Yes, I remember the one about him telling you you're beautiful and whether it bugs you. On my current playthrough, I told him something along the lines of "when you're serious about it, then I'll be too". I actually really liked that response. The Warden's basically telling him "either you man up and tell me you actually like me, or you stop with the seemingly innocent innuendo". So now I can basically trigger his romance anytime I want with the "Has anybody told you how handsome you are?" line, or continue on as friends.

Miriam wrote...
Makes me wonder though, as sweet as it is to bring wine to Shepard before suicide mission.. Is it really a good idea to drink wine just two hours before going on a mission you'll potentially get killed? Maybe Shepard and Garrus don't get as easily drunk as others.

They only had two hours before the Omega 4 relay. Something tells me they didn't have time for the wine  Especially considering how much "figuring out what goes where" and "oh wow, that's what it looks like" there must have been going on.

@ Collider: Actually, the most satisfactory resolution in Redcliffe for me is accepting Isolde's sacrifice. That way, it's not a cop out, there is an actual consequence to her refusing to send Connor to the Circle for proper schooling, and you can actually have Alistair NOT yell at you. When he approaches you in camp afterwards and says he wants to talk about what happened, you can say "I think it went rather well", and he will agree and thank you for helping. I don't know whether you have this choice if you kill Connor, but it sounds like you don't.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:11 .

[Mentatzoee]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
But yeah, implementing "I want out" or "that's not what I meant" options at every stage of the romance is probably a good compromise. That way, if you make a mistake, you can back out at any time. Actually, "that's not what I meant" is probably the better phrasing, since most of the issues seem to be that people aren't expecting their character to say what they actually say.

And here's something I really dislike (or that I used to dislike a lot more when I started playing the games) about ME.
The summed up response wheel. We're all different, why should we know that "You're hard to compliment" would end up in calling someone hot?
I think this shows a really ethnocentric view from the developers that leads into a lot of awkward situations, where someone didn't mean what Shepard said, but what he/she thought that Shepard would say by what it was written at the wheel. I've seen myself keeping out of a lot of Renegade dialogue options for my first Shepard that I might have taken if only I knew they wouldn't be as harsh as I pictured them by reading the wheel.

I remember the first time I played ME. I hadn't read the manual (out of impatience to play) and therefore I didn't knew that certain options of the wheel belonged to the Paragon/Renegade way. I just asked whatever I felt it would be useful, and I got a mixed alignment. I believe that was the best playing experience I could get, because as soon as I read about that, I couldn't be objective anymore.