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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion

Débuté par Chimervera , juin 26 2010 03:45

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#6526
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:33

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Sialater wrote...

Wrex is a smart enough guy to take them on an individual basis, no matter the collective reputation.


I disagree. In his own way I think Grunt is more tolerant than Wrex.  He actually goes so far as to call the squad his clan.  I think Wrex actively dislikes turians on principal.  And I think he is dismissive of anybody who isn't more or less like him or Shepard.  In short, Wrex is smart for a krogan but he is still jaded, resentful, and dangerous.  He respects Shepard but that respect does not naturally follow to other humans or turians or salarians.  I'm not saying he's a madman who kill them on sight, but he wouldn't shed any tears over their death either.  I think it's almost like that "worst" insult that the krogan have.  He just thinks they aren't worth killing.

#6527
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:36

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Basically I think a lot of people who really like Wrex are trying to interject a sense of morality into him he does not have. He does not think as we do. He is mellow and liberal by krogan standards but that isn't saying much given krogan standards.... For the record, I like Wrex. I even trust him for the most part. I just don't think he is some kind of old wise swami man on the hill. Lots of people seem to think he is.

*Edit* In hindsight this was an unnecessarily pissy answer on my part.  Sorry about that.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 01 août 2010 - 10:47 .

#6528
ciaweth
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:38

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You have your interpretation of Wrex, I have mine.

#6529
Sialater
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:39

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I'm not giving Wrex morality. I may be giving him a sense of humor he may not have...

#6530
kglaser
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:39

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Kim, there's a pic in the Clan V. "Photoshop Fail" thread you might want to see ((nothing objectionable, unless you object to silly things...LOL) :P

#6531
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:40

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Sialater wrote...

I'm not giving Wrex morality. I may be giving him a sense of humor he may not have...


He does have a snark streak.  Wrex definitely has a sense of humor.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 01 août 2010 - 09:40 .

#6532
Kim Shepard
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:42

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kglaser wrote...

Kim, there's a pic in the Clan V. "Photoshop Fail" thread you might want to see ((nothing objectionable, unless you object to silly things...LOL) :P

I think I saw the one you're thinking about. xD Saren would approve of being on the throne... and the only one in a male's outfit. (Poor Sheploo and Joker.)

#6533
J4N3_M3
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:44

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I always thought, Wrex is more like teasing Garrus over all that. Seeing he takes things way more serious in ME1 than later in ME2, I always considered his comments to be fueling Garrus' seriousness lol. if that makes any sense. maybe i should just go to bed. too much fraps and writing today. my brain just powered off.

#6534
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:47

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This line: "Glad to hear it, I was losing sleep over the prospect of people not liking the Turians." To me implies he does not like turians at all. There are also several other bitter things he says. Consider the first Normandy conversation. You ask him for stories and the first thing he does is go on about the genophage in an effort to get you to leave him alone. I mean really, the very first thing he starts talking about with someone is the genophage? To me that implies it's right under the surface for him. Of course, it is for all krogan, but I think it is doubly so for Wrex. I have enough chips on my own shoulder to recognize one I guess. (Think of my stick up my ass about Texas thing. People poke me with a stick about it and I jump on them because it is an especially sensitive area for me.) Wrex gives me that vibe. Other krogan don't seem THAT sensitive about it.  It's not the very first thing they bring up.  That kind of dwelling on things breeds resentment. I know it is also there just so the gamer can learn about the genophage, but it doesn't match other expositional areas as with Tali when you ask her about the geth or the flotilla. Wrex brings it up himself. "There was this one time the turians nearly wiped out our entire race." And "Ask the salarians if you want details. They made it." I think his voice in that whole conversation is leaking bitterness. I'm not saying it isn't warranted. I think it is. I get why he feels that way. I'm not asking him to apologize for it but I do think that sentiment is there.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 01 août 2010 - 09:49 .

#6535
Sialater
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:48

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

This line: "Glad to hear it, I was losing sleep over the prospect of people not liking the Turians." To me implies he does not like turians at all. There are also several other bitter things he says. Consider the first Normandy conversation. You ask him for stories and the first thing he does is go on about the genophage in an effort to get you to leave him alone. I mean really, the very first thing he starts talking with someone about is the genophage? To me that implies it's right under the surface for him. Of course, it is for all krogan, but I think it is doubly so for Wrex. I have enough chips on my own shoulder to recognize one I guess. (Think of my stick up my ass about Texas thing. People poke me with a stick about it and I jump on them because it is an especially sensitive area for me.) Wrex gives me that vibe. Other krogan don't seem THAT sensitive about it. That kind of attitude breeds resentment. I know it is also there just so the gamer can learn about the genophage, but it doesn't match other expositional areas as with Tali when you ask her about the geth or the flotilla. Wrex brings it up himself. "There was this one time the turians nearly wiped out our entire race." And "Ask the salarians if you want details. They made it." I think his voice in that whole conversation is leaking bitterness. I'm not saying it isn't warranted. I think it is. I get why he feels that way. I'm not asking him to apologize for it but I do think that sentiment is there.


Actually, I figured it was more a way to push Shepard away, get her to stop pestering him.

#6536
J4N3_M3
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:49

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

This line: "Glad to hear it, I was losing sleep over the prospect of people not liking the Turians." To me implies he does not like turians at all.


to me that was pure sarcasm :blink:

#6537
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:55

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Sialater wrote...
Actually, I figured it was more a way to push Shepard away, get her to stop pestering him.


Which Wrex could also do by just not talking.  I don't think he's worried about looking polite or hurting Shepard's feelings.  If he really wanted her to leave him alone he could just say "****** off."  I don't think her talking to him bugs him.  I think her frivolity over such a serious topic bugs him.  "There's no stories."  "Don't compare humanity's fate to the krogan."  "I don't expect you to understand."  He's got a serious thing on his mind and he doesn't want to put up with inquisitive little humans who don't get it.  That's what I think anyway.  Later he is all for war stories.  He doesn't mind telling them once the proper attitude and respect has been established.  

#6538
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:56

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J4N3_M3 wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

This line: "Glad to hear it, I was losing sleep over the prospect of people not liking the Turians." To me implies he does not like turians at all.


to me that was pure sarcasm :blink:


On it's lonesome I would agree, but he says similar things too many times in too many really serious situations for me to chalk it all up to sarcasm.

Also, again.  I like debating.  Everyone knows this.  If I get tiresome or overly confrontational.  Let me know.

#6539
Collider
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:57

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I think that Wrex doesn't like Turians and he doesn't like Garrus and his youthful idealism.

#6540
J4N3_M3
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:58

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Actually, I figured it was more a way to push Shepard away, get her to stop pestering him.


Which Wrex could also do by just not talking.  I don't think he's worried about looking polite or hurting Shepard's feelings.  If he really wanted her to leave him alone he could just say "****** off."  I don't think her talking to him bugs him.  I think her frivolity over such a serious topic bugs him.  "There's no stories."  "Don't compare humanity's fate to the krogan."  "I don't expect you to understand."  He's got a serious thing on his mind and he doesn't want to put up with inquisitive little humans who don't get it.  That's what I think anyway.  Later he is all for war stories.  He doesn't mind telling them once the proper attitude and respect has been established.  


yeah but Wrex is also the only Krogan who wants the Genophage to be cured; who actually hates the fact that most of his species are warriors and not scientists and he wants to unite the clans. He's different from most Krogan we meet throughout the game. He thinks ahead, sees where they have gone wrong in the past and what they have to change to actually HAVE a chance as a species in the future. So of course, this is a sensitive topic for him and I can imagine, it's one of the things he loves to talk about to everyone who is just willing to listen.

#6541
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:59

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Collider wrote...

I think that Wrex doesn't like Turians and he doesn't like Garrus and his youthful idealism.


This I agree with.  That's why I think he is particularly sore about Garrus.  With most others, Wrex just dismissed them as green, but Garrus is a green turian which makes it even worse.

#6542
J4N3_M3
Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:00

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

This line: "Glad to hear it, I was losing sleep over the prospect of people not liking the Turians." To me implies he does not like turians at all.


to me that was pure sarcasm :blink:


On it's lonesome I would agree, but he says similar things too many times in too many really serious situations for me to chalk it all up to sarcasm.

Also, again.  I like debating.  Everyone knows this.  If I get tiresome or overly confrontational.  Let me know.


just a bit :P

no seriously, I was referring to that line itself. I don't think we can take EVERY sentence and analyze it. To me, this one particular line was pure sarcasm, no matter what other stuff he's said before.

And actually, I don't really care if Wrex likes Garrus or not, now really, I should go to bed. :innocent:

#6543
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:05

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J4N3_M3 wrote...
yeah but Wrex is also the only Krogan who wants the Genophage to be cured; who actually hates the fact that most of his species are warriors and not scientists and he wants to unite the clans. He's different from most Krogan we meet throughout the game. He thinks ahead, sees where they have gone wrong in the past and what they have to change to actually HAVE a chance as a species in the future. So of course, this is a sensitive topic for him and I can imagine, it's one of the things he loves to talk about to everyone who is just willing to listen.


Wrex is a stellar krogan.  I agree with that.  He is great with his not killing civilians thing and adopting Clan Weyrlock.  I love this about him.  It makes me very proud of him.  But he also says that he will not "change what we are Shepard."  Even Shepard observes that he looks like he anticipates lots of bloodshed in the krogan's future.  Wrex loves his people and wants to help them.  I sincerely believe that.   But just because he loves his people doesn't mean he loves other races.  I think he is also wise enough not to start another war with the Council races that his people couldn't win.  So his peacefulness is more a matter of practicality than of genuine desire to live peacefully.  Wrex hates needless fighting that do nothing but weaken his species, but I think he still buys into the krogan ideal of testing yourself in battle and your strength determining your worth.  Wrex is not a soft or stupid person and he has no tolerance for those who are (even other krogan) but I think it is doubly so if they are some other species.  Like I said, I don't hate Wrex.  In some ways, I kinda get him in a scary sort of way because I have a lot of raw sensitive areas in me like that.  (Not comparing myself to the krogan's suffering obviously.  That would just be stupid and arrogant of me.  But I think I get it on a microcosmic level.)

#6544
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:07

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And now in the interest of not driving everyone mad I guess I will shut up.

#6545
Collider
Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:07

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On this note, who do you think Garrus does not like among the squad, if anyone?

#6546
J4N3_M3
Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:09

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Collider wrote...

On this note, who do you think Garrus does not like among the squad, if anyone?


Jacob! Just because I decided it right now. :D:D:D:D:DAnd with that, I REALLY retire to my bunk. Good night everyone :kissing:

#6547
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:10

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Collider wrote...

On this note, who do you think Garrus does not like among the squad, if anyone?


In Mass Effect I can see him not liking Ashley or Wrex.

#6548
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Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:12

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Collider wrote...

On this note, who do you think Garrus does not like among the squad, if anyone?


I don't think he hates anybody, but I don't think he trusts Wrex or Miranda.  I also think he has "cool but professional" dealings with Ashley.  I see him getting on well with Tali, Kaidan, and Thane.  The others I think he is somewhere in between the "colleague and friend" area with.  I think Garrus is kinda private, hanging out in the main battery all the time so I don't know how why he gets to know the ME2 crew.

#6549
Collider
Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:13

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mrsph wrote...

Collider wrote...
On this note, who do you think Garrus does not like among the squad, if anyone?

In Mass Effect I can see him not liking Ashley or Wrex.

Interesting. Considering Garrus' concern about the "good name" of Turians, he may not like that Ashley views aliens as less trustworthy.

Garrus behaved very well with Wrex even when Wrex kept insulting him. It's possible that Garrus may see Wrex' words as just the ranting of an old has been.

#6550
Kim Shepard
Posté 01 août 2010 - 10:22

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I don't think Wrex likes Garrus either, but I don't think he hates him. To me, he seems like the type who doesn't like anyone until they prove themselves to be worthy of his respect. It means a lot for him to consider Shepard a friend. If he knew about Garrus' time on Omega, holding off three merc groups, fighting off a krogan battlemaster, and surviving a rocket to the face, Wrex would at least respect his skill, and maybe start to respect him too. (And because I agree about Wrex having a general dislike of turians and salarians, now I wonder how he would react to Mordin. Not well, I bet.)

For the squadmates Garrus probably doesn't like, I would guess Ashley and Miranda. I'm not sure if he knows Ashley's opinions about aliens (he should have been standing close enough to hear), but if he did, he definitely wouldn't agree with it. He might even be insulted by it. And he makes it clear that he at least doesn't trust Miranda with his comment to her before the suicide mission if Jack's not around to speak out against her being team leader.
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