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[Cerrydd]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Thanks Cerry!

lawl, even though I don't follow this thread that much anymore, I always seem to tune in in time to see my pic being reposted. Thanks Rune

Regarding TIM/Cerberus/Garrus' squad... TIM and Cerberus are up for a lot of nasty things, but I don't see them being involved with Garrus losing his team. I do get the feeling that TIM knew who Archangel was, though. I don't know why. I just don't trust that bastard, he's giving you misinformation or holding things back when he thinks you shouldn't know about it. Miranda and TIM both urge you to get Mordin first, I think if he said Archangel = Garrus, Shepard would've gone immediately after Garrus (something we still do anyway ). And if he indeed knew that Archangel = Garrus, then he would've known of the history between Garrus and Shep and that Garrus would join her anyway, squad or not. Maybe he could get the other team members for free too . This is my speculation though. I hate TIM and Cerberus.

Why he chose Archangel? TIM wants the best of the best. Period.

[Bugsie]

You guys have started something with these tv tropes, this reminds me of the many many ff I’ve been reading: naughty tentacles

[Sialater]

Yes, Bug, I'm of the opinion that Cerberus has never really gone rogue. It's all about plausible deniability. Doesn't mean Anderson knows jack about it, though.

[Bugsie]

Thinking is good.... especially if it includes turians.

[NuclearBuddha]

Sialater wrote...
Yes, Bug, I'm of the opinion that Cerberus has never really gone rogue. It's all about plausible deniability. Doesn't mean Anderson knows jack about it, though.

I don't know if your theory will turn out to be true or not, but here's some food for thought:  the Alliance might label Cerberus as a terrorist organization, but Cerberus has done a number of things that are very useful to the Alliance militarily.  I'm thinking primarily about the eezo explosions that created a bunch of human biotics.

[NuclearBuddha]

It's in Ascension.

A little detail.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 02 août 2010 - 05:03 .

[J4N3_M3]

Sialater wrote...

Liara was too dangerous, the VS was too unlikely.

I'm not convinced Cerberus did anything to cause the deaths of Garrus' squad. I'm also not convinced TIM knew who Garrus was moonlighting as. I think he was lying about Liara, though.

I think the Big Reveal will merely be that they were Alliance all along and never went rogue.

Yup, I think so too. And for some reason, I do believe, that the greybox from Kasumi's mission contains the data to prove this, because if Cerberus was Alliance all along and NEVER went rogue, this would DEFINITELY be bad for the Alliance, seeing the things Cerberus has done in the past and the lines they have crossed.

[J4N3_M3]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

And doesn't Cerberus use various businesses as fronts? Given that and Miranda's father's patronage I can understand them being tied into some very high level stuff. Some of that can't help but overlap with the Alliance in some areas. Not to mentions how easily Jacob gets the armor upgrades which he says comes from the Alliance. "Calling in a few favors" indeed. I don't know if Cerberus is officially tied to the Alliance but they can't help but have some people circling in the same areas.

Alliance had Corsairs, as we know from Jacob and they were officially not tied to the Alliance. So I do believe that it's the same with Cerberus. Officially, they have gone rogue. The Alliance using this to keep their public face clean, Cerberus using this fact to get money from private investors.

[Kim Shepard]

I believe the theory that Cerberus is still part of the Alliance. It'll be interesting to see how these things turn out in ME3. That comic about TIM should be interesting too. It looks like he's fighting off a turian on the cover. I wonder if he was involved in the First Contact War somehow, or if he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

...If he was in the First Contact War, it would probably be best if MainShep didn't find out. You know, because Saren hates humans from the First Contact War and MainShep wants to keep working with TIM.

[Bugsie]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

This place can really become a ghost town at certain hours. What sparked your Cerberus epiphany? Did it just pop into your head or was it the result of something specific?

I saw lots of tumbleweed floating through here on the weekend (cold and miserable here so nothing to do but float around inside and lurk on the interwebs)

The epiphany came when I was reading a ff about Garrus's time on Omega, and when I came to the part when Garrus returned to his slaughtered group, I thought who actually did the killing (mercs obviously) but then I thought did they orchestrate this purely on Sidonis's information, and was Garrus lured away by Sidonis or someone else (possibly in order to make sure he survived) it just started tossing up a lot of questions that I felt the canon version of things just didn't answer for me.  Then for some reason I thought Cerberus, even though I don't recall a mention in the ff of Cerberus (or it was mentioned only in passing) .

The Black ops idea is compelling, but my thoughts are if they are black ops then why do we know about them?  Isn't the whole purpose of govt black ops is that no one ever knows about them (except in complete and utter stuff ups).  Cerberus is out there, advertising themselves as pro-humanity, saying they're doing the things the alliance won't do - If they are aligned with the Alliance it must be very high level.

[Andaius20]

[lovgreno]

Collider wrote...

One of my favorites:

Epic duo

With these guys Shepard can take on the universe and win.

TIMmy and Cerberus manipulates everything and everyone, it's their favourite method of controll. The idealistic and young Garrus is probably easy to manipulate. I think Garrus, Tali and the old Normandy crew are allowed on board to make Shepard more at home and lower his/her guard.

[Xsause]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Collider wrote...

A fun thing we did in the Tali thread was give the regulars a list of tropes that pertain to them.

Haha, this would be fun.  I have no idea where to begin because I"m not familiar with many tropes.  This one is Miranda, however: http://tvtropes.org/...rostingIceQueen

I'd be a Plucky Comic Relief, Laughably Evil, and (depending on how you think about me) a Screwy Squirrel.

[Super ._. Shepard]

Garrus my fav in ME2 never talks to me on the ship that much

[J4N3_M3]

lovgreno wrote...
TIMmy and Cerberus manipulates everything and everyone, it's their favourite method of controll. The idealistic and young Garrus is probably easy to manipulate. I think Garrus, Tali and the old Normandy crew are allowed on board to make Shepard more at home and lower his/her guard.

I don't think it's a matter of "at home" but more like they know Shepard will refuse to believe whatever Cerberus says. Hearing from Joker and Chakwas that TIM was actually right about the Alliance and the Council, is one way to crack Shepards strong loyalty into both of them.

[Nilfalasiel]

Note to self: being away from this thread for a whole weekend = detrimental to catching up.

So a few things I've picked up on over the course of 10+ pages (WoT warning):

I don't think TIM had anything to do with the death of Garrus' squad or knew who Archangel was. The way he gives his status report after Garrus is recruited sounds like he thinks it's a coincidence that he turned out to be Garrus. Now, of course, he could be lying, I'm not saying he's some paragon of truthfulness. But I don't see why he would go out of his way to make sure that Shepard is comfortable (I mean, he did give her/him Miranda to spy on her/him). He even doesn't seem too sure about the idea of recruiting Tali at first. In fact, I think it's more in his interests to make sure that Shep has as few of her/his old squaddies with her/him as possible, to minimize loyalty ****-ups (it sure sounds like he doesn't want her/him to have her/his old team back when she/he asks about them). Obviously, that doesn't work, but I don't think it would be a sound plan on TIM's behalf to orchestrate getting back Shep's old squad.

Besides, nothing Garrus did as a vigilante is detrimental to Cerberus directly, nor is it meaningful enough for them to take notice. It also has no relation with their ultimate goals of human supremacism. So again, I don't think TIM would bother.

Squaddies Garrus wouldn't like? Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Zaeed. Miranda and Jacob because they're both Cerberus, and I don't see him trusting them. Plus, Miranda has a "know-it-all" streak about a mile wide that he'd probably resent. Jack, because she's a criminal and either obviously loves it (if you don't romance her) or doesn't know any better and might not ever know better (if you do). Zaeed, because ME2 Garrus has an aversion to collateral damage that ME1 Garrus didn't have (or had to a lesser extent), and Zaeed's LM is just one big collateral-damage-fest. Yes, he did it for revenge, just like Garrus was motivated by revenge for Sidonis, but Garrus didn't take down a whole refinery to get to Sidonis. It's like the diametrical opposite of the surgical strikes Garrus seems to favour. Also the grenade-strapping episode: ME2 Garrus would never approve of that.

People I'm a little on the fence about: Kasumi, Thane and Samara. They all have something about them that Garrus would find reprehensible: Kasumi is a professional thief, Thane is an assassin, Samara has no regard for collateral damage whatsoever. Still, he's obviously admirative of Thane's skills, and personality-wise, I think he'd get along well with Kasumi. Samara, he might have a coldly respectful attitude towards: not be judgmental about her beliefs, but not necessarily condone them either.

But yeah, overall, I think the people he has most chances for getting along with are Tali, Thane and Kasumi.

Concerning whether Wrex likes Garrus or not, I think it's more "damn, this guy needs to grow up" than "he's a turian therefore he automatically sucks". I'm sure Wrex is old and wise enough to be able to judge people on an individual basis. I'm not saying he's not sore about the genophage, because he definitely is, and, from his point of view, he has good reason to be. I just think that he doesn't have the whole "all turians are evil without exception" outlook to the same extent that younger krogan may have. As for what he may have planned for the krogan in the future, I don't think he's going to be so stupid as to lead them on a galaxy-conquering spree like the Krogan Rebellions. He obviously still values their lifestyle of combat and proving one's worth in battle, but I think he also realizes that they can't just randomly provoke the galactic community and hope to get away with it, or live any consequences out through sheer numbers. So he won't be less violent in general. But he might be a little smarter about the ways he utilizes that violence in the future. It's not a question of morality. It's a question of self-preservation for the entire race. And Wrex definitely has self-preservation in mind more than the average krogan, especially as of ME2.

I also think that Grunt really didn't think things through when he said "I have nothing against Garrus but I hate turians". You gotta remember that Grunt is very young, if not physically, then definitely mentally. And he has almost no personal experience to work on, just imprints and age-old prejudices from Okeer, who wasn't exactly the most benevolent or well-adjusted person (or krogan) ever. I'm not saying that he won't grow up and develop his own opinions of what's right and wrong. I'm just saying that his morality and opinions are pretty much a huge mess as of ME2, and it will take more than just one mission with Shepard to sort that mess out.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 09:42 .

[Super ._. Shepard]

nice explaniton

[Nilfalasiel]

And some more tidbits (so as not to make one ginormous post):

Someone brought up Garrus' rank (I think it was Raga): I also don't think that he was very high up, considering his youth and his propensity to do things his way. That would be even more the case after the Omega episode, if any official turian authorities still cared. Which I don't think they do; I think he just dropped right off the grid in that respect as well. I do, however, think that he may have gotten demoted after coming back from the Sovereign mission. Yes, he was instrumental in saving the galaxy, but he also quit in a huff before that, and the Council would probably have wanted to minimize his visibility even more after Shepard's death (so that they could smother the rumours about the Reapers better). I don't think a resignation would've gone over without any consequences.

And some non-Garrus related stuff:

Steel Dancer wrote...

Mukora wrote...

Cerrydd wrote...
Also, I never saw the appeal in Kal. *runs away and hides*

Nor do I. He's like forty... maybe it's the missile launcher. Women like men with "big guns."

      

Lol, don't worry. There's no official word on how old Kal is. I'm not sure where people are getting that he's 40 either, but there's no proof either way. Either there will be some kind of indication in ME3, if he makes a return, or everyone decides what works best for them. Personally, I don't think he's that old: on top of the reason I gave first, I also think he's too impulsive to be a seasoned veteran (wanting to take on a Geth Colossus on his own, the way he talks to the Board if you get him to testify; correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he actually say something along the lines of, if Tali gets exiled, they should exile him too?).

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Actually, though as surprising as this may seem, I never read fanfic before Garrus fanfic. It always weirded me out because most of it was really OCC or involved self-insertion. However, as ME is an RPG there is actually an outlet for self-insertion. People can make Shepard's personality pretty much any way they want. It lends itself very well to fanfic. People still have to create their own characters. They can't just steal and shoehorn other people's characters into situations that they WANT to happen. Crack fic is an exception of course. That stuff is fun and funny. I'm talking about the serious stuff here.

Anyway, I have since tried to read fanfic for other stuff and I just can't do it. It weirds me out somehow. Any graphic fanfic or art involving human guys usually does. Even the risque art in the Kaidan thread weirds me out. It makes me want to avert my eyes. It seems more "real" somehow, I guess because those characters are human and so it seems a little more alarming. I can't explain it. It's the strangest thing. I'm not saying this makes sense, but it is a weird reaction that I get.

I don't really see how the fact that the characters are human makes them any more reprehensible as fantasy-material. They're still fictional, and it doesn't mean that whoever writes those fics or draws those pictures is automatically thinking that they're real. They might wish they were, just as you might think "what if Garrus were real?", but that doesn't automatically mean that they're weird creepazoids who only fetishize virtual characters and think real people suck. It's only natural to fantasize about fictional characters, whether it be in literature, cinema or video games. We know they're not real, but they have qualities and/or features we'd find attractive in a real person, and there's nothing wrong with that. I know I thought Mr Rochester, Heathcliff or Mr Darcy were attractive when I read Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights or Pride & Prejudice. I know perfectly well that they're fictional characters, and fic involving human characters is no different to me. Of course, 90% (if not more) of fic is drivel, and I do know that there's a lot of creepy stuff out there. However, it doesn't mean that the simple principle of writing fic about human characters is weirder than, say, The Lover by Marguerite Duras (which is actually autobiographical: can't get any more self-inserting than that).

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 10:09 .