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[lovgreno]

Well said Nilfalasiel.

[Andaius20]

Some other points we seem to have missed in the Garrus/sidonis vs Zaeed discussion. Look at what Garrus did in the lead up to Sid's assassination. You kill some krogan and shake down the fake fade. You hunt down Harkin and Garrus is very pissed at him You practically demolish the factory site with all the fighting you do in it. I defiantly get the vibe that if Garrus had the option of blowing up the factory to get to harkin he would have. When you meet up with Harkin, Garrus beats the crap out of him. (Something you don't see Zaeed doing, he just kills Vido, ok with fire but no slow viscous beatings before hand. )

[Nilfalasiel]

Andaius20 wrote...

Some other points we seem to have missed in the Garrus/sidonis vs Zaeed discussion. Look at what Garrus did in the lead up to Sid's assassination. You kill some krogan and shake down the fake fade. You hunt down Harkin and Garrus is very pissed at him You practically demolish the factory site with all the fighting you do in it. I defiantly get the vibe that if Garrus had the option of blowing up the factory to get to harkin he would have. When you meet up with Harkin, Garrus beats the crap out of him. (Something you don't see Zaeed doing, he just kills Vido, ok with fire but no slow viscous beatings before hand. )

Well, you have the choice of killing the krogan or not, so that actually depends on how you play your Shep. If you don't take the Renegade interrupt, Garrus actually tells them to leave. He never kills the volus either. And I didn't get the sense that he would've blown up the warehouse to get to Harkin. Yes, he did beat him up, and potentially even shot him in the leg, but he didn't kill him. Even if he had, it would've been one person who had been up to questionable stuff. Not an entire factory of completely unrelated, innocent people who haven't done anything to attack or otherwise hamper you, like in Zaeed's LM. Unlike Harkin. And even Garrus' violent outburst was, to me, more of a sign how much the Sidonis stuff was eating him up. I wouldn't have imagined him getting this violent had he been in his normal state of mind.

ME2 Garrus specifically states that everything he did with his squad was with the thought of minimizing collateral damage, regardless of whether you Paragoned or Renegaded him in ME1. I think that counts for something.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 10:19 .

[J4N3_M3]

Andaius20 wrote...

Some other points we seem to have missed in the Garrus/sidonis vs Zaeed discussion. Look at what Garrus did in the lead up to Sid's assassination. You kill some krogan and shake down the fake fade. You hunt down Harkin and Garrus is very pissed at him You practically demolish the factory site with all the fighting you do in it. I defiantly get the vibe that if Garrus had the option of blowing up the factory to get to harkin he would have. When you meet up with Harkin, Garrus beats the crap out of him. (Something you don't see Zaeed doing, he just kills Vido, ok with fire but no slow viscous beatings before hand. )

you cannot really compare that. Harkin was a criminal, the two Krogans "could" have been a threat so killing them before they got the chance to attack Garrus and Shepard was only a logic thing to do, IF you use the renegade interrupt.

The people in the factory though were innocent, they hadn't done anything to deserve to die.

Of course, beating Harkin and shooting him is close to illegality. But that's something I LOVE about this mission. It makes the entire story REALLY tragic. I love tragic heros. Just watched The Punisher yesterday, one of the best comic movies if you ask me. The one with John Travolta, not the one from 2008

Clean, white heros get boring, but characters that are tragic, forced to do things they usually wouldn't do to get justice, I really like that. It makes things so much more interesting and Bioware did GREAT on that with Garrus' loyalty mission. Zaeed's mission though is boring compared to that. You either get to be the plainly clean hero by saving the people or the straight azz-hole which actually I think makes you a criminal because you don't even TRY to save these people.

Modifié par J4N3_M3, 02 août 2010 - 10:50 .

[J4N3_M3]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

One other minor thing I will point out about the fic thing, however, is that I don't think an autobiography is an accurate comparison to self-insertion in fanfic. In the first case, the event actually happened. The author is just writing it down in story form. The type of self-insertion I am talking about is injecting oneself into a fictional universe with the express purpose of having sex with made-up characters. That creeps me out. I don't think all fic does this or all fic writers do this. But some certainly do. I also don't like fic that takes other people's characters and forces them to behave in a way that is vastly contrary to the author's intentions. Idle fun smut and crack fic is one thing. That stuff is mostly "why the hell nots" and "for the fun of its" anyway. I mean the serious stuff were people intentionally try to make Severus Snape into a loving mentor or force Harry and Hermione to have sex because they have some feeling that they know better than the author. That stuff bugs the tar out of me. I'm using Harry Potter examples because that is one of the few fandoms I have some experience with and because I trust most people will get the analogy because the material is so famous. I don't think all or even most fic falls into these categories and I have yet to encounter any ME fic that I think does. However, I do think such fic exists and yes it does bug me. Again, that is just my opinion. It isn't authoritative or clarion or anything and I don't mean offense by it.

yeah, I'm not a big fan of OOC either, yet a good thing about FF is that people can write a lot the way THEY see the things from their perspective, which I actually think is a good thing. Take Garrus for example, we all adore him, yet we can't even agree if he's renegade or paragon, hates or likes wrex and so on. So Everybody has a different impression from the characters in the game, which makes the whole FF thing exciting. It does neither bug me nor creep me out. I usually get after reading a few lines if a story is something I wanna continue reading or not. If it's not, then I just close it and can't be bothered anymore. No big deal, really.

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

One other minor thing I will point out about the fic thing, however, is that I don't think an autobiography is an accurate comparison to self-insertion in fanfic. In the first case, the event actually happened. The author is just writing it down in story form. The type of self-insertion I am talking about is injecting oneself into a fictional universe with the express purpose of having sex with made-up characters. That creeps me out. I don't think all fic does this or all fic writers do this. But some certainly do. I also don't like fic that takes other people's characters and forces them to behave in a way that is vastly contrary to the author's intentions. Idle fun smut and crack fic is one thing. That stuff is mostly "why the hell nots" and "for the fun of its" anyway. I mean the serious stuff were people intentionally try to make Severus Snape into a loving mentor or force Harry and Hermione to have sex because they have some feeling that they know better than the author. That stuff bugs the tar out of me. I'm using Harry Potter examples because that is one of the few fandoms I have some experience with and because I trust most people will get the analogy because the material is so famous. I don't think all or even most fic falls into these categories and I have yet to encounter any ME fic that I think does. However, I do such fic exists and yes it does bug me. Again, that is just my opinion. It isn't authoritative or clarion or anything and I don't mean offense by it.

No worries. I guess I was just going with the broader understanding that self-insertion = writing a story with yourself as the main character. Because even if autobiographies are based on fact, there's bound to be some measure of embellishment, and you are assuming that your personal history is interesting and that other people will want to read about it. I guess it's more literary exhibitionism than self-insertion.

But yeah, I do agree that the kind of fic you refer to is dodgy. It's just a shame that it seems to affect your perception of human characters in fic in general.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 11:24 .

[Xsause]

I once got told by a reviewer that my Shepard was "horribly OOC".



In a fic about Shepard marrying Garrus and having badly written...you know...which I wrote for the lulz (you might have seen me talking about it before), just to see how far I could go.



It's a shame that I deleted it, really. I was just about to get to the part with the mutant babies.

[J4N3_M3]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Oh it's not a big deal. I don't lose sleep over it. I just think it detracts from the really good fic out there that deserves more attention. And it gives the whole fanfiction thing in general a potentially bad vibe. It's like that crazy furry stuff. There are some perfectly innocent and good examples of that. Think Disney's Robin Hood or the Redwall books by Brian Jacques. Yet the whole thing now has this creepy aura because of some rather uh...imaginative people. Heck, I've even heard us Garrus fans accused of being furries! I like fanfiction, but unfortunately some creepy fanfiction has given legit fanfiction a bad rep. But I agree it's not worth getting worked over. I do the same thing with fic that you do. If it doesn't grab me pretty quick I just move on.

I don't think it gives fanfiction in general a bad rep. I mean, there's thousands of really crappy books out there, still people read books and reading books in general is considered a good thing. I think, the reason why people go when they hear the term fanfiction is because it's written by a layperson. And that means, no one has checked grammar, spelling, quality of story and so on. Plus the ten thousands of Mary-Sues out there, which in 99% of all stories is the best sign of a BAD story! 

Modifié par J4N3_M3, 02 août 2010 - 11:27 .

[Andaius20]

lolz Xsause!



another Thane shot for bugs and anyone else, that wants to send gifts to the Thane thread.

[Xsause]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Given that I've been hanging around in the NSFW thread my mind is going in some questionable directions right now.

He just loves vents...mmm...

[Nilfalasiel]

Xsause wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Given that I've been hanging around in the NSFW thread my mind is going in some questionable directions right now.

He just loves vents...mmm...

I'd let him hide in my vents...

Ahem

Also, I'm ashamed to admit that it actually took me a few seconds to figure out where Thane was in that pic. It's got a very Wanted vibe to it. Can he curve his bullets too?

[Bugsie]

My vents are always left open.....

Okay I should head back to the NSFW thread....

Modifié par Buggirl70, 02 août 2010 - 11:53 .

[J4N3_M3]

Andaius20 wrote...

lolz Xsause!

another Thane shot for bugs and anyone else, that wants to send gifts to the Thane thread.

don't tell me that this is flycam? DAMMIT! why have i never thought of that?

[Thundertactics]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

don't tell me that this is flycam? DAMMIT! why have i never thought of that?

It's from the CGI trailer.

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 Too bad Thane never really uses that awesome hand to hand of his outside of cutscenes.
And I mean in combat, of course.  Jeez, what else did you people think I meant?:devil:

They could've given him Kasumi's Shadow Strike ability. In his case, it would've been highly appropriate.

[Bugsie]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 Too bad Thane never really uses that awesome hand to hand of his outside of cutscenes.
And I mean in combat, of course.  Jeez, what else did you people think I meant?:devil:

You should head back to the NSFW thread too Raga