29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Nilfalasiel]

J4N3_M3 wrote...
Never said, they should. I was just giving my opinion, why I think the ME2 system inhibits roleplaying. Because every Renegade decision I make on a Paragon playthrough makes me fall behind on the Paragon scale. And this is something, that's just not fair, because roleplaying wise, you cannot ALWAYS be the hero.

Also, a Renegade shep doesn't just let the Batarian die during recruiting Mordin. Helping him to get information is LOGICAL! 

Then, on Purgatory with the guard beating the prisoner. You get only 2 Renegade points for saying that's what he deserves, yet 5 if you choose Renegade to make the guard call it off. BUT you also get 2 Paragon! While on a paragon pt you get 7 paragon points in total for choosing paragon to make the guard call it off. So, does that mean that if I only get 2 renegade points, that I fell back behind my scale by 3 points because I didn't choose the renegade way to make the guard call it off because I wanted to avoid the Paragon points? It's stuff like that that really annoys me.

And dammit, I know the points by heart, I think, I need serious help! 

GARRUS HUG! QUICK! 

Lol. You don't need to get EVERY single point for a given alignment. There's a bit of a margin: you can make a few Renegade/Paragon decisions here and there, I believe.

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I never had trouble with either. Once you get up the fourth tier, it doesn't seem to matter too much. I was able to intimidate people with my skinny mage and persuade folks with my dumb as rocks warrior chick without much trouble. I also admit that I might tend to spam this and abuse it as I always dump points into conversation skills first. Anytime a new slot opens, that is always the first thing I fill so my conversation skill is generally very high very early on.

I guess. I just remember not being able to force the Lady of the Forest to kill the Dalish on my first playthrough, even with my Coercion maxed out. My Warrior didn't have enough Cunning, apparently.

But since I was only trying to do it to get the achievement for it, it wasn't that big a deal. I wouldn't even have tried to do it otherwise.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 08:36 .

[Collider]

I actually don't think Garrus would butt heads with Jack especially after her loyalty mission. He never expresses concern or anything about her on Purgatory.

I know, but I could see Jack being abrasive and insensitive, and Garrus getting upset. Or Garrus saying something about Jack's past or criminal activity and Jack misinterpreting and getting riled up. I mean Jack attacked Miranda over nothing. She has a short fuse and gets temper tantrums easily.

I think Jack would talk about how much she enjoys preying on the "soft" people of society. She does mention this on Illium. And she would say that cops are pigs and she especially likes to kill them. That would definitely unsettle Garrus, seeing as he was once an officer.

She also mentions that she was once a mercenary who rounded up people for slavery. So basically she's telling Garrus that she's everything he hates. Garrus doesn't try to stop the fight, but Jack starts getting rowdy when Garrus voices his disagreement with what she's done.

Now, Garrus and Zaeed I could see. I think it would have something to do with Zaeed being a merc. Maybe Garrus' team killed some buddy of his. Maybe Garrus finds out Zaeed was involved in some really unethical deal that hurt his team in some way.

That's exactly what I thought too. Something having to do with mercenaries.

Modifié par Collider, 02 août 2010 - 08:36 .

[J4N3_M3]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...
Never said, they should. I was just giving my opinion, why I think the ME2 system inhibits roleplaying. Because every Renegade decision I make on a Paragon playthrough makes me fall behind on the Paragon scale. And this is something, that's just not fair, because roleplaying wise, you cannot ALWAYS be the hero.

Also, a Renegade shep doesn't just let the Batarian die during recruiting Mordin. Helping him to get information is LOGICAL! 

Then, on Purgatory with the guard beating the prisoner. You get only 2 Renegade points for saying that's what he deserves, yet 5 if you choose Renegade to make the guard call it off. BUT you also get 2 Paragon! While on a paragon pt you get 7 paragon points in total for choosing paragon to make the guard call it off. So, does that mean that if I only get 2 renegade points, that I fell back behind my scale by 3 points because I didn't choose the renegade way to make the guard call it off because I wanted to avoid the Paragon points? It's stuff like that that really annoys me.

And dammit, I know the points by heart, I think, I need serious help! 

GARRUS HUG! QUICK! 

Lol. You don't need to get EVERY single point for a given alignment. There's a bit of a margin: you can make a few Renegade/Paragon decisions here and there, I believe.

I know, but as the player, you never know, how many decisions you can make until it effects you. And that sucks! Also, if you want to play pure renegade with no paragon points at all, see above mentioned problem! I think, there is no way, to get ALL renegade points without getting paragon points. Yeah, I'm weird like that.

[Collider]

Well like I said, I don't like that the availability of charm or intimidate has to do with how many paragon or renegade points you have. I want to be able to play a Paragon Shepard that isn't always sunshine and flowers at times. I want to be able to tell someone badmouthing Garrus to shove off if I feel like it. I don't want to be forced into Paladin Shepard or Darth Shepard. I love in-betweens.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I don't understand why I don't have this problem, because with my paragade I literally make renegade choices somewhere between a third and half of the time and I am fine with her. Do you guys have the PC version? Maybe this is some weird tic that the Xbox version doesn't have?

A lot of it has to do with what order you do the missions in. The longer you wait to do the mission, the harder it is to use persuade. If you do the Miranda and Jack loyalty missons too late, for example, it becomes nearly impossible to resolve the fight without siding with one or the other.

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I don't understand why I don't have this problem, because with my paragade I literally make renegade choices somewhere between a third and half of the time and I am fine with her. Do you guys have the PC version? Maybe this is some weird tic that the Xbox version doesn't have?

A lot of it has to do with what order you do the missions in. The longer you wait to do the mission, the harder it is to use persuade. If you do the Miranda and Jack loyalty missons too late, for example, it becomes nearly impossible to resolve the fight without siding with one or the other.

I don't know about level, but this, definitely. I always do Miranda's, Jack's and Samara's LMs ASAP. With Legion and Tali, you don't have a choice, which is why this is usually the fight that people fail to resolve on their first time through.

Oh, and I'm on Xbox too.

[Collider]

This is how the charm/intimidate system works.



Let's say it's the beginning of the game. You are in an area with one choice. The paragon route gives you 10 paragon points, the renegade route gives you 5 renegade points. If you choose the paragon route, you have 10/10 (100%) paragon points, and 0/5 (0%) renegade points.



You enter the next area. It has one choice as well. The Paragon route gives you 20 paragon points, the renegade gives you 15. If you choose the renegade route this time, you'll have 10/30 (33%) paragon points, and 15/20 renegade points (75%).



So the game calculates whether you're able to use charm or intimidate based upon those ratios - how many paragon or renegade points over how many have been possible. Every time you enter an area with moral choices, the amount of possible points increases. So logically then, the sooner you get to the charm/intimidate scenes, the more likely you're able to use charm or intimidate.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Collider wrote...
 

I could maybe see if Jack flat out attacked Garrus.  I don't she could provoke him into a fight.  I say he says something that she misinterprets and she freaks on him.  That makes the most sense to me.  He might then get worked up about her being crazy and danger to the mission and that Shep should get rid of her.  I can see that possibly.

I agree completely. Garrus says something that she overreacts to and she start throwing a tantrum. Jack says that Garrus is insulting her. Garrus says that Jack is unstable and dangerous. If Shepard sides with Jack, s/he chastizes Garrus for "picking on" Jack and disrupting squad relations (this is going to sting for Garrus since he was beating himself up over the destruction of his squad on omega). If Shepard sides with Garrus, then Shepard tells her to back off and not attack the crew over petty words, and to deal with people who might have a different opinion than her or may disapprove of her lifestyle.

[Pacifien]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I get that. But why am I able to wait until the end for those loyalty confrontations and still solve them without a problem? Do you guys dump stats into class specific rank (infiltrator, soldier, etc.) early on? Cause that is the only other variable I can think of.

Do you use a ME1 import?

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I get that. But why am I able to wait until the end for those loyalty confrontations and still solve them without a problem? Do you guys dump stats into class specific rank (infiltrator, soldier, etc.) early on? Cause that is the only other variable I can think of.

Because you have more % of paragon points or more % of renegade points at the time. Like I said, waiting till the end makes them harder, just not completely impossible.

[Nilfalasiel]

Zaeed's LM is also always the first LM I do, just to be safe.

I just noticed something odd. My Thane!Shep is currently on Virmire with Kaidan and Garrus. In the prison cell area where you release the sane salarian, you can also release a bunch of indoctrinated ones (or, at least, open their cell). Garrus is scandalized at what Saren has done, and when Shep suggests releasing the salarians, says it might not be safe for them. Kaidan, on the other hand, just says he doesn't like it.

It's just strange to me that Kaidan seems to have the Renegade role in this situation... It's not like it's a plot-specific decision either.

[Pacifien]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Yep, paragade. Paragon meter full. Renegade about half full.

Is that "yep" as in you do import a ME1 playthrough?

Because ME1 playthroughs make all the difference.

[Collider]

How squad mates react to certain decisons in ME1 has to do directly with who you have with you. In light of that, I don't take much stock into what they say. I mean you could potentially have Wrex say that they should save the council if you have renegade Kaidan or Ashley with you.

[Pacifien]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Yes, I import an ME1 character with those stats I mentioned, but I figure everybody here is also importing characters as well.

Most people shouldn't have a problem if they're importing the full 190 points from either paragon or renegade and then stick roughly paragade or renegon throughout ME2. If they took the 70% passive boost versus the 100% passive boost, they might not meet the check, but odds are they will if they retrain.

Also, the Miranda/Jack fight is easier to resolve as a renegade while the Legion/Tali fight is easier to resolve as a paragon. Those who have mentioned not being able to resolve the Miranda/Jack fight I find are doing a mostly paragon playthrough.

Modifié par Pacifien, 02 août 2010 - 09:02 .